poaching part 2

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carterj16

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Just read all the posts on poaching, next thought:

How many animals every year are poached as compared to killed legit. As in 50/50, 60/40

poaching % would include party hunting (which we all know happens a lot) meat, headlights, wrong weapon, across the road of the boarder, day before the season, shoot a bull with a cow tag, anything you would get a ticket for. Another one I have head before is shooting a small animal and walking away.

I had a game warden in Oregon tell me over 50% are poached?

that seems high but legal hunting last a short fall, poaching is year around.
Another example I just thought of is hearing about ranchers shooting deer or elk in the winter to get them off the hay piles.
 
When I took the archery class from Idaho Fish and Game they told us they figure that four trophy deer were killed illegally for every one killed legally in the state.

Grizzly
 
I don't have any stats to back this up so it's just my opinion.

I think that total animals poached is a very very small percentage of the total animals taken each year
BUT
the total number of poached trophy animals v legal trophy animals is quite a bit higher which leads me to think it's all about the antlers.

There's no way in hell that the number is anywhere near 50/50 even for trophy animals.

It's a huge problem in every State and we all should be involved in policing our ranks but the percentages get blown out of proportion by the alarmists. When someone says HALF of all trophies are poached they are just crying "the sky is falling".

Zeke
 
Zeke said, "I think that total animals poached is a very very small percentage of the total animals taken each year"


Zeke, this is one of the first times i'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't know or can even guess a percentage but from my travels and talking to locals who live in these areas or off the grid, i believe the impact is year around and huge.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Living in the Emerald Triangle, I truly believe the blacktails are being hit very hard. I couldn't guess a percentage though. I just know that having deer and pot are not compatible.
 
so whats your thought berry.

I know growing up 20 years ago we would do family deer hunts and I didn't learn party hunting was illegal until high school. Like it or not it happens A LOT
 
After having spoken with a couple of great conservation officers back in 2011 during an LE Hunt, and knowing just how few conservations there are that "patrol" some of the most coveted trophy deer areas in the state, I'd have to say that the number of trophy animals poached would surprise us all. There is nowhere near enough COs to efficiently patrol it all, so that leaves it to those of us that are in the field. We become the eyes and the ears.

I would encourage everyone to take poaching more seriously. Poachers, I don't believe, aren't much for keeping it a secret. If you see something, report it. If you hear about something, report it.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
I tend to agree with Zeke. I would guess that only a small percentage of bucks are taken illegally. However, based upon the comments in this thread I might just be naive and ignorant. One thing is for sure, if I hear about or see someone poaching I would report them in a heartbeat. I hate theives and poachers are stealing from the rest of us.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
I also tend to agree with Zeke that it's not near 50%. From my perspective party hunting has declined as well, mostly because party hunting opportunities are limited.
I have two friends that were busted for poaching many years ago. After hearing what they went through, most all their associates have been "scared straight"!

That being said, poaching/illegal killing is still way more prevalent than it should be. I'll say 25% ish. But who knows?
Age and experience typically makes us all more law abiding.
Maybe I just run with an ancient, law abiding crowd (like Zeke)LOL
 
Big Bucks vs SMALL Bucks
I bet the number of bucks killed is higher then a person would think, But it's not just Big bucks That are taken.
I remember hunting down around Parowan several years ago and the amount of spotlights you could see in the fields and on dirt roads coming and going from the mountain was amazing after dark and before daylight.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-14 AT 01:14PM (MST)[p]80,000 deer hunters in the State of Utah with a 25% success rate will kill TWENTY THOUSAND deer. (that's a crap-load of deer)
Holy cow guys! Wouldn't you think we'd see even more evidence of poaching if the numbers were 50/50? No way it's 50% of the total deer kill!

Yes, yes, yes it is a huge problem and one that should NEVER be overlooked.

I however think the number has to be closer to 10% of the total deer kill. That's still TWO THOUSAND deer a year which are poached. Me thinks that number is even too high. Really.

Zeke
 
Well there is no way to know. Poachers keep stuff on the down low.

I hear a few that get poached from info in the paper or local game wardens...... Game wardens can never tell either.

If your horn hunting in Wyoming and find a wolf/grizzly kill and take the elk ivories and antlers with-out buying the proper tag and investigation then your considered a poacher.......


The number will never be known....... 50/50 seems pretty freakin high..... but like I said WHO KNOWS!!!!!
 
Did somebody say the question was just about or even remotely directed towards poaching only in Utah? I'm talking about poaching deer, not just bucks, in all the Western States and in general as to how it can greatly reduce or abort recovery to a given herds numbers.

I hear this all the time and they ain't BS'ing, "Well, i live out here. When i want or need a deer, i just go get one!"

We've been through this before, i and others say that poaching of deer for meat, either for the dogs, for the family to eat, or to sell or trade cheaply for cash, is a huge problem that largely goes unnoticed until one wonders where all the deer in the area went, and someone, and others, say it's not much of a issue at all and point the fingers elsewhere.

OK, Believe what you will. I care but i'm not going to beat myself up over it.

I have a standing offer here where i live to several guys i know who used to poach deer for food. They did it for years and years and felt it their right.

My offer; before you go shoot that deer, tell me and i'll take you or the wife shopping and pay for the food. If i hear of you shooting a deer out of season, i'll turn you in myself.

Joey




"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Sage,
I'll step to the plate and take the blame. I cited Utah numbers since I'm most familiar with them. I know this isn't a discussion about just 1 State.
I'm sure in areas with few to none permits that the percentage of legal v poached is much worse. I'll hand you that without question.
In States/areas with lots of tags the poached percentage is much much lower.
It's simple math and relevant only as far as my State reference is concerned.
There's no reason at all to doubt the percentages of your area or any others of which I'm unfamiliar.
Like I said, it's a huge problem everywhere....just different percentage v legal harvest.
Zeke
 
Zeke, we're good!

Have you ever been out to a area and found hardly any deer and those you did see were running like crazy at first sight of you. Then you go over and around and see a dozen small homestead type places scattered across the valley and up each nook and cranny, been there for years.

When there a only a few deer, relatively from what it could be, in a given range to begin with, how much impact is a couple of the local off the grid guys going out year around, until they get theirs, going to be to the remaining deer?

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I think its higher then most think, just like there is more stolen from convenient stores then most realize. My dad has gas stations and you would be surprised. Lot of scum out there
 
We had two guys (18-19) that they convicted of poaching. I'm friends with the warden who ran the investigation. in a 2 month period they shot over 100 deer at night, as far as the warden could tell, they never went to any deer they shot. Somebody reported them and they were finally caught in the process of shooting 4 does which they were charged with. They couldn't prove any others but the nighttime slaughter stopped.

This might be classified as killing rather than poaching, they also arrested them for drugs at the arrest which was the only reason they got jail time. It depends on your area on how bad the problem is but serious everywhere in my opinion, I would guess 25 percent.
 
Its much higher than most think...I think 50-50 at a minimum.

Its totally amazing what just a few poachers can do...everything from shooting extra animals for their kids/relatives, shooting animals in units they dont have tags for, shooting out of season, sport killing, etc.

A family near where I hunt, was busted in Montana a few years back...several HUNDRED illegal animals were believed to have been killed. IIRC, there was well over 100 animals seized with pictures of several hundred more.

A good friend of mine is an LEO in the same area, he busted a highschool kid that had killed several dozen elk and deer in ONE YEAR.

Its out of control and poaching is a very, very, very serious problem.
 
Yep...over 100:

Jaquith and Warden Capt. Jeff Darrah told of finding walls covered with antler mounts when they searched the Ruths' trailer home. They also spoke of a shooting table in the Ruths' living room aimed out a window at a field strewn with hay and grain, a rifle with a homemade silencer, and piles of photographs of the Ruths with family and friends displaying trophy kills. The photographs were later matched with many of the antler racks seized in the home search, Jaquith said.

About 20 of those racks, along with the silencer and two of the Ruths' rifles, were on display in the courtroom Thursday.

The Ruths' trailer home sits on a major wildlife corridor between the Blackfoot-Clearwater Wildlife Management Area and the Bob Marshall Wilderness.

The investigation turned up remains of more than 100 trophy-quality deer, elk, moose, bear, antelope and other animals. The wardens also testified about seeing four-wheeler trails leading from the Ruths' home into woods, and vehicles equipped with spotlights for night hunting.

"I would say they've killed several lifetimes' worth of game," Darrah said of the Ruths. "I've only harvested four legal elk in 19 years. Dean Ruth has harvested enough elk for 10 guys' lifetimes."
 
BuzzH said,
>
>Its out of control and poaching
>is a very, very, very
>serious problem.

+1 Well said Buzz!
On that point we can all agree regardless of our own opinions of the damn percentages!

Zeke
 

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