Proposed License Fees for Wyoming

S

SMOKESTICK

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Here is the new proposed license fees as they were presented at the Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resource Committee meeting, held August 23, 2012 in Jackson, WY.

Mule deer and Whitetail deer licenses will become species specific but no variation of license fee was presented, so I am assuming all deer licenses would cost the same.

Resident:
Antelope: from $31 to $48
Deer: $36 to $52
Elk: $50 to $75
Moose: $110 to $175
Big Horn Sheep: $115 to $250
Mountain Goat: $120 to $260
Black Bear: $43 to $52.50
Daily Fishing: $4 to $7
Annual Fishing: $22 to $36

Non-resident:
Antelope: from $270 to $370
Deer: $310 to $520
Elk: $575 to $750
Moose: $1400 to $1750
Big Horn Sheep: remains @ $2500
Mountain Goat: $2150 to $2600
Black Bear: $360 to $437.50
Daily Fishing: remains @ $12
Annual Fishing: remains @ $90


Other Licenses:
Conservation Stamp: $12 to $14.50
Res. Archery: $14 to $17
Non-res. Archery: $28 to $34
Res. Application Fee: $5 to $6
Non-res. App. Fee: $14 to $17


Reduced Fees:
Res. Annual Game Bird: $14 to $10
Res. Small Game: $14 to $10
Res. Combo GB/SG: $22 to $15

So, what do you think?
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-12 AT 06:57PM (MST)[p]Who proposed those fees? If it was the G&F on their own, it really shows they are out of touch with reality! If it was PETA trying to stop hunting, then the fees make sense, LOL! I think they need to go back to the drawing board because a bunch of the current NR fees you posted aren't even accurate as to what is presently being charged! Also, if they think Idaho lost a lot of people with their ridiculous license fee increases, wait and see how many million dollars they lose if just those NR antelope and deer fees are raised to what you posted! Those two fees alone are ridiculous when normally they propose a 20% increase every 5 or 6 years! The deer license should go to approximately $375 with that kind of a % increase, while a proposed $218 increase you posted is absurd and laughable! It will sure lessen the hunters I see out there if it goes through, LOL!!!
 
So it looks like:
NR Deer - 68% increase
NR Pronghorn - 37% increase
NR Elk - 30% increase

Justification?????

Now that they have a bunch of NR's captured with a point system how many will keep applying? how many will apply until they draw and walk away forever? How amny will pay what ever it costs and be happy?

Wish I could raise my income as easily as they can raise the price of a NR license.
 
TOPGUN,

The numbers are based on the Southwick & Associates research and came from the WY G&F Department as they presented them to the legislative committee.
 
Looks to me like they outta raise it a lot more for residents. It costs me more for a tank of gas than what's proposed for both a deer and antelope tag. I'd also bump it up a bit more for non rezi's. If the non rezi's don't like it, I'd say go hunt in Colorado. They also need to get rid of the non rezi annual fishing license and make it $20 a day.

Demand will still far exceed supply for both residents and non rezi's.
 
Demand will still far exceed supply for both residents and non rezi's.


Tell that to Idaho!
I realize no one has a gun to their head making them pay, but where does it end??
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-12 AT 06:29PM (MST)[p]
Triple_BB---If they raise those NR fees to what Bob posted they dang sure should raise it a lot more for Residents. If that proposal goes through you'll be paying a lot more for a bunch of your licenses within a short time. You have to be fuggin kidding me if you think the NR fees should be raised even more than what Bob posted! The NRs are already carrying 80% of the load for you GD friggin Resident tightwads and now you have the balls to say we should pay even more than what is proposed! I'd tell you what you can kiss, but it would get me banned!!!
 
Well apparently d-nozzle, you missed what I noted in my first post about increasing the rates for residents. Again, if you don't like it, go hunt Colorado...
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-12 AT 07:31PM (MST)[p]I read what you posted and that's why I started my post the way I did in agreement with you on that! However, I'll say again that if you think the proposed NR price increases of 30%, 36%, and 67% for elk, antelope, and deer, respectively, should be raised even more, you can not only kiss my butt, but are obviously not thinking about the future of Wyoming hunting for even you residents. It's either they figure out other sources of income and quit gouging the NRs or you will not have a G&F Department as you know it within a few years because the common man will not be able to afford to hunt. All the western states are getting so ridiculous with their NR fees that sooner or later they are going to cut their own throats. Idaho has already had it happen, Montana is trying hard to follow suit, and Colorado has been begging people through all kinds of advertisements to come and hunt elk there. Mark my words that if these proposed fees go through, the majority of NRs that have PPs will use them next year wherever they can draw a tag and pay the present fees. Then they will bail out of Wyoming come the 2014 season and that proposed increase. I'll continue to hunt in Wyoming even if those fees go through because I don't have that many years left to hunt. However, I'm thinking about all the others who won't be able to, while you obviously aren't! I really pitty the poor SOB that is just getting into hunting because he might have to take up knitting instead the way things are going in this country!
 
That is really bad news for me. What about the reduced doe/fawn antelope tags? How much do they propose that increase will be?
 
Wow, are those what the "regular" draw pool license costs would go up to? If so I hate to see the "special" pool costs!
 
I'd really like to know how that independent company came up with those bogus figures and I can't believe the G&F Director and higher ups would even present those numbers to the committee. I thought the company was hired to look at alternative sources of funding for the G&F Department, not to recommend license fees! I notice they have no increases in fishing, which is BS because of the huge money spent on fisheries that hunters always end up paying for.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-12 AT 09:27PM (MST)[p]What do I think? I think it sucks for non-residents, and I am a resident.

I see G&F guys getting fuel at local convenience stores here in town. Talk about over paying for gas.

How about a audit of how the G&F spend their money? I think we could find a lot of waste.
 
I don't know what the answer is, but I think care needs to be taken in raising prices for both resident and non resident. The NRs contribute a tremendous amount to the G&F budget as well as to the general economy when they are visiting the state. While lost on many, there are a substantial number of resident hunters in all states whose situations tax them to be able to afford to hunt even at the great fees that states like Wyoming has for their residents. Start loosing those hunters and support for hunting will tank quickly.

There are a number of hunters who consider it good when they can afford to hunt in their backyard. Those who complain because they are getting priced out of hunting multiple states can be seen as elitist. We need to be careful to not let the funding problems divide us. The long term answer won't be found in continuing to raise fees, particularly at a time when increases in fuel, utilities, groceries, etc. have continued to outrun most of our paychecks.

As a resident I do okay, but even at those proposed fees I won't be putting in for mtn goat or sheep for myself or son anymore--at least until the kids are grown and through college. As much mineral tax moneys go into reserve funds, it would be nice to see some trickle over to the game and fish. It would also be nice to see other benefactors of our wildlife and fisheries management contribute a bit to the coffers as well.
 
I was looking at Wyoming with glee....I have been out priced by my other neighbors, Oregon, Montana and Idaho. As a non-resident caught up in the points game I feel a little trapped...I am hamstrung by Oregon for a few more years then I am through. I don't worry about Idaho, but I looked at Wyoming as an oasis of logic surrounded by wart nosed Game Commision members stirring their black cauldron full of newts eye, tail of horned toad and empty wallets of non-resident hunters.
This really disturbs me as a hard working middle class do-it-yourself hunter who also pays for his wife to join him because she loves the adventure and venison too.
I will be left to buying expensive resident tags in a state too concerned with their pet wolves than the future of big game hunting.
Jason
 
Its not just the upping of fees that is tough on NR hunters, its all the other stuff. Diesel/Gas skyrocketing, everything else going up, it just all piles on.

What are the special licenses going to cost? Deer will be damn neer $1000 now I would guess....yikes.
 
ColoradoOak,

They did not provide that but when I spoke with the deputy director, he said it would probably increase by 21.5%

I just wanted to see what people would think about these proposed license fees.

So far, most of the people I have spoken with are echoing the same points some have raised on mm.
 
Wyomings fish and game doesn't do much of anything right, man what a messed up organization, here are a few things- they have a a draconian prefernce point system, a law saying how many nonresident tags are distributed, a predator status for wolves meaning no income from a modest licence fee, and millions of dollars thrown away to southwick and south LLC ( whatever) for one stupid opinion survey after another.

Whats next?
 
To begin with, the proposed fee increases are ridiculous.

Having a degree in Wildlife Science and working for 20 plus years as a biologist and a FW Law Enforcement officer, I continue to marvel when any state agency proposes such hikes to cure their budget woes. I have not hunted Idaho in years due in large part to fee increases. I quit the Wyoming moose and bighorn sheep race because of the huge increase to the preference points and increases to tags. I did this by cashing out on any easy moose hunt and just abandoning my sheep points. I never started the Nevada Game as I did not see a cost/benifet to their game.

I had planned on a Wyoming Hunt for antelope with several folks for 2013 but several likely will back out. Maybe some of us will still go.

What continues to baffle me is the lack of any sort of economic sense. Sure, the respective Game and Fish agency may gain a few bucks but what about the loss in revenue to these small local economies. Numerous small communities have small stores and gas stations that flat out are hanging by a thread (even in the good years). The loss of a few hunters here and there may result in some of these businesses folding. This is the death by a thousand cuts syndrome. In another way... sure the loss of one hunter is likely not going to hurt these businesses much,but loss of the second one, how about the loss of the fiftieth?

I understand the resident vs non-resident angst and do not wish to dive into it here. The trouble with Wyoming is that they have largely based their income on the backs of non-residents. That is, this agency is flat out dependant on revenue from the non-residents to survive. Now to propose pricing them out of the game is just suicide. Residents should take note as if they lose non-resident income, they will need to make it up somewhere. So for a math lesson, how much do you need to increase resident fees to make up for the loss in non-resident income?

Gotta get, wife wants the computer. Hope you catch my drift. The increase in fees may be felt beyond just what the agency realizes in revenue and what the hunter sees in the field.
 
I'll beat them at their own game and just move to become a resident. I've been scouting towns in Wyoming and Colorado I can retire when I feel like it still enjoy my job to much to quit. Sitting on a bunch of points for deer and 3 for antelope guess I better use them up first.
 
Raising NR prices this much will just change the demographic of the NR's who hunt WY. Those able to pay these high prices will also hire guides or hunt on leased properties. If you can afford the outrageous tag prices, what is a few more thousand for "gauranteed" quality hunts.
This is far more problematic than residents realize. More locked up and leased land, ranchers seeing every hunter as nothing but a cash cow, etc., changes the entire hunting culture. Just look at what has happened in MT and eslewhere when prices were raised. People that pay these high prices expect more than just a raghorn bull or two point deer, and no longer hunt just for the experience. A sense of entitlement starts to creep in when you have already paid these extortionist rates.
A very bad idea, but few will understand the consequences until the horse is out of the barn.
Bill
 
>Raising NR prices this much will
>just change the demographic of
>the NR's who hunt WY.
>Those able to pay these
>high prices will also hire
>guides or hunt on
>leased properties. If you can
>afford the outrageous tag prices,
>what is a few more
>thousand for "gauranteed" quality hunts.
>
>This is far more problematic than
>residents realize. More locked up
>and leased land, ranchers seeing
>every hunter as nothing but
>a cash cow, etc., changes
>the entire hunting culture. Just
>look at what has happened
>in MT and eslewhere when
>prices were raised. People that
>pay these high prices expect
>more than just a raghorn
>bull or two point deer,
>and no longer hunt just
>for the experience. A sense
>of entitlement starts to creep
>in when you have already
>paid these extortionist rates.
>A very bad idea, but few
>will understand the consequences until
>the horse is out of
>the barn.
>Bill

Yup! It will make a bunch of guys (me) re-think the whole Wyo hunting deal. They've hit a point of diminishing return!
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-12 AT 11:27AM (MST)[p]As I mentioned above, IF these increases go through it will not be until the 2014 season. Next year, even before it is presented to the Legislature for passage, I would expect a glut of applications in the Spring for the 2013 Fall seasons, especially by those persons with a decent number of PPs in the bank. I can see next year being very difficult to draw a lot of the tags because my guess is that many will cash in their PPs for any decent license they can draw at the present license fees, and then get out of Wyoming while the getting is good before the fee increases take efffect. I hope this proposal gets enough publicity that there is a march on the G&F and Legislature buildings to bring them to their senses. It could be that there is an under the table plan to publicize these high fees and then to actually cut them by 50% or something of that sort thinking that the general public is stupid and will breathe a sigh of relief and go along with those increases. We have got to come up with alternate sources of income for the G&F, rather than continually sticking it to the NR hunter. When the G&F relies on us for 80% of their budget like they do, this was bound to happen sooner or later and it looks like this is the time that the chit is really going to hit the fan. If a large number of NRs quit the state, they will end up having to charge the resident hunters 10 times what they are right now to make up the difference in lost monies to the agency. However, that still doesn't solve how the businesses throughout the state that depend on NR money will be able to survive. If the residents have any smarts at all, there should be a groundswell by them to knock some sense into the G&F folks before it's too late and they are paying fees like us NRs.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-12 AT 12:13PM (MST)[p]Yo Trips-

You should really be careful on what you wish for because it may just come back to bite you. Do you have kids? Grandkids? What happens when they move out of state and can't come back to join you on those annual hunting or fishing trips that you used to take them on when they were little? All those family traditions will now suck for you and them when they cannot afford to attend.

I know you guys just want to protect everything you have but it's too late. You've already let all your land get bought out by the Jackson Hole/California Elitists who don't even spend time on that land. Some great fishing waters (waters that my ancestors homesteaded) are now in the hands of them, Orvis, and other hunting clubs. That is land you and I have lost forever. I"m not made of money and never will be--with the fishing fees the way they are, it'd cost me over $50 for one days' fishing with my family. I know you think that's good in your eyes....."good, that's one less Utah family I won't have in my backyard" but it's gonna affect you in more than just license fees. Instead of coming up there with my whole family (staying in your hotels, eating at your restaurants, filling up at your Maverik's, shopping at your local fly shops (which, by the way, I've seen 4 of them go under in the past 2 years), I'll just go up by myself and stay at my relatives and save my money.

I understand the need/want to label everything as MINE. I want to keep my places secret too! I don't want to see out-of-staters trudging through my favorite spots either. But seeing out of state plates is better than yellow, NO Trespassing signs every other fencepole.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but man we got to stick together. ALL of us are losing Wyoming lands (all Western Lands for that matter) at an alarming rate. That land will be gone to ALL of us FOREVER!!! Unless you are insanely rich, the places we used to hunt and fish, are now gone. The places I used to hunt and fish, I, sadly, will never be able to take my children. I LOVE Wyoming, and guarantee that I treat YOUR land with more respect than 99% of your Poke brethren. When I was 8 or 9, I used to ride my bike down from my grandmother's house, past the farmer's ranch house, and to the river. The farmer was always so friendly to me and in return, I used to drop by some freshly caught trout for him and his wife. The farmer would always have time to chat with me about how I was doing, or how my baseball team was doing. Now you cannot even go to river and recognize a friendly face. You have all the big guiding outfits floating their clients down the river. Hyde, after Hyde, after Hyde. None of them have a kind word or greeting. In fact, you better get your arse outta the river when float by or they'll run you down.

Sorry for the rant, but times are a changing for ALL of us. Your kids, and mine, will NEVER have the same unique and pristine experiences as we did. Everyday, there are more and more potential experiences that are being taken away from all us in the form of increased land sales, decreased river access, decreased hunting access, and out-of-freaking control license fees.

Gaetz
 
The Elk prices are in line with other states. A quick glance shows Deer on par with NM and OR. Antelope is a little cheaper in NM.
Appears like they looked over the other states and priced accordingly.
 
I believe if you do your research you will find that this license fee increase will only just about cover the cost of inflation over the past 5 years.....price of fuel for trucks/equipment, price of hay for elk feedgrounds, fish food for hatcheries, costs of health insurance for state employees, etc......I know I'm paying about twice as much for all these things as I was 5 years ago.
 
Its about time. We are finally getting close to where the prices should be. The only problem is I think residents should have been raised more. Even at these prices it is still the cheapest hobby around. The biggest single dollar value increase is $450 and thats for Mountain Goats. If you don't have another $450 to spend on a goat tag then you should not have been spending the $2150 in the first place.

Those that are complaining are doing it on a $700 computer, with a $200 phone in their pocket, getting ready to jump in their $35000 truck so they can hunt with a $1000 bow or rifle while carrying $1000 binos and $400 pack. The cheapest part of hunting is the license.
 
I'll be jumping in my '97 truck pulling my '59 travel tailer with my '95 quad in the back (and my $1500 binos).
Hey Mr Mulecreek, can I borrow 3 grand for my moose hunt next year?

I know it takes cash to play. That's why I have all the old shiite.... so I can play, but eventually we'll all get priced out of the market!

Just my 2 cents,
Zeke
 
The deer increase in ridiculous. It will make me cut back on the applications and wonder if it is worth getting my kids into that whirlpool. Might as well not ever take them, so they don't know what they are missing. Youth prices are cheaper of course (or they always have been) which is great, but what real future is there in it if the same kid can't afford the license as a man? Sad really.

Oh well, someone will buy the permits, just less applicants. Shrink the base of hunting and you loose in the long run.
 
As of 8/31/2012 straight from Idaho F&G website.
Idaho had available to purchase 8475 NR elk tags of a total NR quota of 10415 at $572 for the license and tag. They have barely sold about 20% of the quota and the season is open in lots of places. Used to be they were all gone within a few months of going on sale at most, and some zones with tags on 8/31 used to seel out on the first day!
Idaho had 12906 NR deer tags available out of a total quota of 13515 NR deer tags with a total cost of $457 for the license and tag. They have not sold more than 5% of the quota. That has to hurt the budget.
Some of these will be bought by residents I'm sure. And Idaho has other issues such as wolf predation.

So if Wyoming fees increase to the proposals will the NR's still pay to play?
I love Wyoming and I have done well there over the years, but I can't pay $$ that I just don't have. I guess we'll see what happens.?
 
>I believe if you do your
>research you will find that
>this license fee increase will
>only just about cover the
>cost of inflation over the
>past 5 years.....price of fuel
>for trucks/equipment, price of hay
>for elk feedgrounds, fish food
>for hatcheries, costs of health
>insurance for state employees, etc......I
>know I'm paying about twice
>as much for all these
>things as I was 5
>years ago.

Yep, that's the problem. If the G&F would reprice their licenses about every two years to keep up with inflation, we'd still be at the same numbers and no one would be saying anything. Their mistake is waiting long periods of time and changing it all at once. So do these proposed non rezi prices make WY the highest in the west. Seems like New Mexico, Nevada and Utard charged more for some of these species when I applied there earlier this year. Don't remember seeing a bunch of whining on their forums...
 
Zeke,

No you cannot. Besides if you hunt in Wyo it will only cost you $1750. See you already saved $1250. ;-)

What we can all do is determine what is really important to us and possibly stop buying all the increadibly stupid crap that we buy because we think we need it. I am very confident that all of us waste more in a year on stupid shiite than these price increases amount to. I know I do.

BTW if you had kept your 2 cents to yourself then you would be that much closer to covering any increases. ;-)
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-12 AT 03:57PM (MST)[p]"Those that are complaining are doing it on a $700 computer, with a $200 phone in their pocket, getting ready to jump in their $35000 truck so they can hunt with a $1000 bow or rifle while carrying $1000 binos and $400 pack. The cheapest part of hunting is the license."


***The problem with that theory is that you don't need to buy all those things you mentioned every friggin year like you have to buy the licenses and tags to be legal. Add those fees and the high cost of fuel alone to drive thousands of miles like many NRs travel for western hunts and many average working people will have to drop out. That will leave it up to the next tier of income earners and it will keep going up like that until only the wealthy will be able to participate and PETA will be happy!

mulecreek---I don't care what you say because I'm not giving up my Pepsi no matter what the fees go to, LOL! I'm blessed that I have enough coming in and saved to be able to hunt until I'm too old to do it. However, it grinds me that our hunting heritage is slowly slipping away due to inflation, general trends in our society, tree huggers, etc.
 
Using that logic, we should make it free. For that trip you described the cheapest part will be the license. Since you said you would need to pay every year, you must be talking about deer, elk or antelope. The biggest posisble price increase of those three is $210. That amounts to about 200 less sodas in a year, 70 less coffees, 2 less date nights, cancelling your direct TV subscription for a few months, a few less nights at the bar, or getting rid of your cell phone. Many more choices if a person really wanted to go hunting instead of spending their hard earned dollars other ways. If you do not have $210 of disposable income in the course of a year then you have much bigger problems than buying a hunting license. We all need to get real with where we spend our money.
 
"Youth prices are cheaper of course (or they always have been) which is great, but what real future is there in it if the same kid can't afford the license as a man? Sad really. Oh well, someone will buy the permits, just less applicants. Shrink the base of hunting and you loose in the long run."

Really, these kids becoming men can't hunt their home states for deer, turkey, waterfowl, hogs or whatever else roams their woods? My buddy in North Carolina shoots something like 5 or 6 deer a year out there as does his son. Theres about a zillion more whitetail hunters in the eastern 2/3's of the US than there are hunters in the rocky mtn states. Because little ol WY raises it non rezi prices, hunters are going to become extinct? Have you watched any hunting shows lately. 90% of them are turkey or whitetail hunting. Wonder why that is...
 
Yep, really. I guess you miss the reports of hunter numbers declining, one of the largest problems being rising costs. And your little rant on other state's prices was off also. Both Utah and NM, even CO and some tags in NV are cheaper than the proposed increases for WY.

Almost doubling the deer license cost in 5 years? What math genius do they have forecasting their costs? I understand it is your state and you guys can divy out the wildlife as you wish, but it doesn't make sense to keep riding the costs on non-residents, supported by shrinking resources. Wyoming's G&F is in trouble because they made too many promises to their employees... Kind of like other public entities which are going broke. That word unsustainable comes to mind. You'll still sell permits, just not as many points. And don't feel bad-- other states will follow WY's lead and raise their fees.

Llamapacker's post is pretty much spot on.
 
I expect that some have not really known hard times or have forgotten what they are. I remember going hunting in my Datsun b210 in jeans and tennis shoes with a borrowed rifle and the tags and gas were all I could barely afford. Footwear was waterproof of course because I wore bread bags over the socks.

For many people a few trade offs are the answer if they want the tags. For others the belts have been tightened pretty much as far as they can go. There can be many variables to poverty beyond irresponsibility or laziness. There are residents in all of these states that are being priced out of hunting because it really is becoming cost prohibitive.

Its a shame when so many of our hunters support the concept of you hunt if you can afford it and if you can't, tough crap. Ironic how many who propose that some need to buck up, shut up and pay more, are also the ones complaining because they have to pay more.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-12 AT 06:29PM (MST)[p]"Because little ol WY raises it non rezi prices, hunters are going to become extinct? Have you watched any hunting shows lately. 90% of them are turkey or whitetail hunting. Wonder why that is..."

You appear to just be posting BS now to piss people off from all appearances and you're doing a good job! The majority of the eastern hunters that would probably like to try a western hunt are staying home because of these outrageous NR fees in most states that are 10 times or more than what the residents are paying. Why don't you trade places with a NR for a year or two and we'll see how you like paying $520 for a deer license compared to the measily $52 they're proposing for a resident to hunt the same animal!!! On top of that a majority of NRs are doing DIY hunts on Federal lands, which even makes it sting a lot more. Then top it off with the Wyoming BS that the NR has to be accompanied in a wilderness area by a licensed guide or resident and people start getting just a little bit testy!
 
The real issue that needs to be addressed in Wyoming is the general units and residents being able to hunt all season long. That is hurting their deer numbers and quality more than anything. Wyoming does not have the world class deer hunting it used to, people are willing to pay to play but when you are talking this kind of money people are going to expect to at least see a big buck.

Wyoming still has great Antelope hunting, elk is pretty good, but deer is poor. Charging high prices is fine if you have a good product, if the product is not worth it people are not going to pay which is what happened to Idaho.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-12 AT 07:17PM (MST)[p]I have always found the money to do my western hunts and will do so in the future.At 60 years old ,I am going to keep going untill I can't go anymore.

I don't drink booze,don't smoke,don't golf and don't bowl but I love to hunt and will continue as long as I can.May grip and complain,but still happy to be able to go.
 
"Yep, really. I guess you miss the reports of hunter numbers declining, one of the largest problems being rising costs. And your little rant on other state's prices was off also. Both Utah and NM, even CO and some tags in NV are cheaper than the proposed increases for WY."

Nope, I haven't missed those reports. Apparently in yer state, folks don't have the opportunity to hunt deer, waterfowl, upland game, predators, turkeys, etc,??? And if I'm following you, yer claiming rising resident costs in yer state are the primary reason hunter numbers are declining? Because it sure as hell a stretch to claim numbers are declining due to folks not being able to afford to go out of state to hunt. You following me yet? Also, I never said all of the states I referenced were more expensive than WY. Its my fault for not typing slower or you'd have noted that I said some of the species I applied for in those states were more expensive than WY...
 
I guess I fall somewhere right in the middle of all the posts put up. I think a lot of good points have been made...and a few points that are flat ridiculous.

The one that really bothers me is the doorknob that made the post about G&F employee benefits driving up the costs. Look, employees, no matter the business, deserve health insurance, retirement, and a living wage. The G&F employees I know arent buying yachts, vacationing in Europe, buying million dollar summer homes, and the like.

What they are doing is taking care of a resource that is very important to just about everyone, hunters and non-hunters alike. Most have went to college and to say they are over-paid for the responsibilities they have, is ridiculous. It sets me off when I listen to some half-wit say they should be working for minimum wage with no benefits...pure short-sighted bullchit. Done with that.

As to the NR prices (coming from a WY resident), I think they should have moved up some, but its wrong for the G&F to continually make up for every budget shortfall almost entirely from the NR's. I agree that most everyone that really makes hunting a priority can come up with even the new prices. However, I also see that as the prices increase you get to a place where you're excluding too many. Granted, most everyone can hunt on the cheap in their own states. But, its still nice to have the prices at a place where those with modest incomes can still save for a few years and make a nice trip.

The resident fees are still too low IMO and the residents, in most all states, definitely need to start stepping up and paying more.

Theres also one major funding source that I've talked to the G&F about several times regarding the fishing licenses. In most states, you have to buy a 2 rod stamp if you want to fish with 2 rods. I've bought the 2 pole stamp in Arizona almost every time I've had a NR annual license...and would in Wyoming as well. I've brought this up, that they should charge for the 2nd pole. A $5-$10 second pole stamp would increase revenue.

I also feel the Resident fishing license should have went up as well. Fishermen should be pitching in more, considering a person can fish 365 days a year.

Bottom line is that hunting licenses are not going to go down in price more than likely. Management costs money and with basically a user based system of paying the bills...we're going to continue to be asked to dig deeper. Goes with the territory and I'm not going to quit hunting no matter the price.

I suspect most others that are whining wont either.
 
Well i guess you guys can do without me. I long ago quit Colo hunts when i felt that they outrageously raised their fees and i'm now maybe having to quit Wy as well!

For me, it's not a case of having the money but not wanting to spend it. One would have to walk in my shoes but i have done without a lot of things people take for granted just to be able hunt and fish here local every year with a outa state trip mixed now and then.

Looking at those fee's really pisses me off that i just this week, again bought preference points for both deer and lopes and i had to rob Peter to pay Paul to do that!! I never would have bought those points if i'd known the fees look to be jacked up out of reason and proportion.

I have heard all of the self righteous crap here before, save it!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Sounds like another good reason to never have a preference/bonus point system.

Sorry to hear you cant find another couple hundred to hunt...
 
Buzz, it's not really another couple hundred. The fees to apply are due in what, Feb-March? Every year that i do apply, i have to try and come up with the full fees in advance at the hardest time of year, now close to $900. and that's for the reg price drawing.

I'm self employed construction, there's no UI checks coming in during the winter paid vacation or any of that, in a very small seasonal mountain community. Many here are worse off than i but as an older fart with no reg checks coming in, i still musttry and scratch out a living to meet my obligations.

I have been DIY serious Big Buck hunting all over the place for over 40 years, never been on a high dollar hunt. Hunting never was anywhere near this expensive and it just seems to be getting worse.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Maybe consider just putting in for either deer or antelope and doing the point for the one you arent actually applying for. Less money to front.

Like I said, the new fees are going to hurt some people and I cant like that.

Should have been a bit more aggressive with resident fee increases.
 
"Maybe consider just putting in for either deer or antelope and doing the point for the one you arent actually applying for. Less money to front."


Yeah, Hey Thanks! it would be tuff to choose which one! Really, aside from Blacktails, i used to think Muleys were the $hit and just about only hunted them, only wanted to hunt them. Now though after a couple few decent lope hunts under my belt, must say that i really like hunting Pronghorn and kick myself for not getting after them all these years. It would be tuff to choose...

One of my good MM buddies thru PM, offered me a ride to Wyoming with him this year for lopes. I could really cut the expense down on a deal like that. As it is, i can never find anyone that wants to hunt for as many days as i want to go so i generally bring my own camper rig from far Northern Kali, it gets about 10 mpg, and plan at least a 2-3 week trip.

There is no Hawaii or Mexico fishing, no trips to the races, no runs to Vegas. All my adult days, i've worked hard and tried to keep my nose clean so i could go hunt!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I appreciate the participation and discussions. I want to reiterate that this is only their proposal.

I regret that the discussion has turned the focus into a resident -vs- non-resident; that was not my intent. The last time this was discussed was in 2007. Frankly, WY SFW was concerned with the last license fee increase and has openly testified before both the WY G&F Commission and the Joint TRW Legislative Committee that non-resident fees are already approaching the breaking point. Several of your comments, I believe, re-enforces our position.

I do believe that we are seeing in Idaho what can happen if license fees become too high. The WY G&F Department has data which demonstrates that both the 2000 and 2007 license fee increases for fishing licenses resulted in less licenses being sold overall.

This is only the beginning of the discussion; however, I know that the WY G&F Department would like to fast-track this so they can have a bill ready and introduced for the 2013 session. The bill will most likely set the license fee increase to go into place for the 2014 season.

In closing, I believe the WY G&F Department is mistakenly assuming that since supply is in high demand there will always been plenty of hunters willing to pay whatever the price to hunt. As sportsmen, we cannot allow the Department to forget about the importance of keeping hunting affordable.
 
I think what has most in an uproar is the sticker shock. (I know it will affect my application and point accumulation strategies in the future).

But I also recognize the proposed fee (At least in regards to elk) is comparable to many states.

But I also look at it from the G&F budgeting point of view. How do you do a budget forecast when you astronomically increase fees? It will NOT be a linear revenue expansion. Tag quotas will not be filled.

A fix to this surge/flat licensing costs is get the license fee indexed to inflation. A budget could be forecast, based upon inflation. Fees would not go up much each year. Much easier for hunters and departments to deal with those increases.

Likely would take legislative action, but I fear it will be a couple years after licenses go unpurchased for them to figure out what went wrong.
 
How about this:
Go ahead and raise fees to the proposed amounts and get rid of that assinine "non-resident hunters must be guided in wilderness areas"
rule!
:D
I have enjoyed the respectful discussion.
 
>How about this:
>Go ahead and raise fees to
>the proposed amounts and get
>rid of that assinine "non-resident
>hunters must be guided in
>wilderness areas"
>rule!
>:D
>I have enjoyed the respectful discussion.
>


Great Idea! It will save me some dough when I draw my sheep tag!
Hence, I'd have even more money for pricey tags!

Zeke
 
SMOKESTICK

Unless I missed it somewhere in the previous posts. Was there any mention of raising prices on non resident youth. If so do you remember what the proposed amount is. I have max points on Deer and Pronghorn. My boy has max for Proghorn and Elk. I may try to use my points before price goes up and keep my boy in if its still affordable. I really on care that I can continue to afford to take him to Wyo. I will probably will not participate in the draws. Just cant afford it anymore with all the other costs. Thanks for the info.
 
Dang! They're killin' me. I just bought my preference point for Pronghorn yesterday. I suspect those prices will go up in the near future too.

At age 64, I'm getting tired. Maybe it's time for the younger guys to take over. Even though I live in CA I still get a kick out of blacktail hunting, saltwater fishing and clamming, steelhead fishing, and waterfowl hunting. All within a few miles of home.

Who am I kidding? I'll keep on applying, some how some way. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.:)

Eel
 
I'm still waiting for someone to say this is just a big April fools joke.

I'm sitting on 4 points for elk and deer. I think Wyoming is pushing their luck if those fees pass for the NR.
 
This just went up on the G&F website today and includes a complete table of the proposed fee increase, as well as other ideas. There appear to be a number of errors on present charges, as well as proposed charges for special licenses. There is an easy link to click on where you can submit your feelings and ideas for the next few weeks until they have a meeting that will be available online. I already registered my feelings on the situation in a polite message and I hope everyone else does the same. Here is the link to the article on the G&F website:

http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/news-1000952.aspx
 
If these fee increases are true and accurate, I will be thinking long and hard about hunting in WY in 2013. I am a non-resident that has hunted WY almost every year since 1997. I missed one year when I went to Colorado and 1 year fighting cancer. I drive 1600 miles to get to WY. I love the state and the people in the state of WY are some of the best in the entire country. I spend over $2000 each year on DIY hunting trips to WY. I have also been on 3 guided hunts that cost much more and have been happy to spend the money. The point is that my vacation time is spent hunting in WY. I save all year long to make this trip. I have definitely seen the quality of the hunting go down hill the last 5 years. I have built relationships with locals in WY, have learned to hunt DIY for mule deer and antelope and have found a few honey holes that have paid off in the past. The quality has definitely gone down hill and at some point, I will have to decide when the bleeding stops. Maybe $200 -$400 is not much in the big picture. I can find ways to save that much to make sure I can afford the fee increases but at some point you have to ask yourself is it worth that much more money to see less game and have less chance of taking a quality animal. I can stay home and have a low quality hunt or I can drive to WY and have a low quality hunt. Time will tell. I plan to be in WY this October. I hope it is not my last trip.
 
searcher---If these fees go through as proposed, they will not take effect until the 2014 season. Next years fees will be what is presently being charged, so you should have at least 2 more hunts in Wyoming before having to make your decision. Click on the link in my previous post and please submit your comments to the G&F in the link within the article.
 
I'm still waiting for someone to say this is just a big April fools joke.

I'm sitting on 4 points for elk and deer. I think Wyoming is pushing their luck if those fees pass for the NR.
 
Figures,I just bought my deer point last week. I've never hunted Wyoming but have been collecting points so I can in the future, when I can afford it, looks like the future might be getting further away. Llamapacker was spot on.
 
oops double post my bad............

I made my comments to the Game and Fish. With today's prices it only makes it harder and harder for some to be able to afford to go on a DIY hunt.

It's plenty expensive already driving from Michigan to hunt Wyoming. That being said I've had plenty of fun going their both for hunting and just going to hang out with the guys for a week.

I almost hate the thought of only hunting my crummy state
 
Hunting out in Wyoming sort of spoils you to hunt whitetails in MI doesn't it! I know I dont have near the passion to hunt up at my place in Kalkaska any more after I started hunting out in Wyoming in 1992. It's nice to know I'll have the place when I can't do that western hunting any more though!
 
The problem isn't paying the $520 license fee... its trying to get your wife, brother, dad, inlaws, kids, etc. to hunt with you as well. By the time a NR is done applying, he's more broke than those two broke back mountain fellows.
 
Just vote for OBAMA..........Again! And all you ever dreamed of will come true!
 
That's about right Travis! At least we got our hunt worked out this year before the chit hits the fan!!! Watch for an email later today.
 
I look forward to it! I'll be out at the range today trying some of my new loads. Thanks for the advice and help in starting reloading!
 
Joey provided the link-I suggest you guys send in your comments.I suspect they will lower those NR fees before it's set in stone.G&F is conducting at least one meeting I'm aware of in Lander Sept 22 to receive comments from the public.That's you guys.You can either whine on MM or whine to G&F.It's my guess that complaining to G&F will do you more good.

I would like to have seen res fees proposed to be higher as well.There are many other options available,too.Give them your ideas if you don't like the proposed increases.It's your wallet.
 
>Awesome now they need to cut
>deer tag number in areas
>that are suffering.

Oh I've seen them cut the deer tags in Regions G & H twice in the past 5 years of so. But guess what, they still allow the residents to roam free as the herd declines. Just take a look at the historical hunter #s and harvest stats. Its a shame and blatant mismanagement of the wildlife.

And as said above by some other posters, the stupid wilderness rule for non residents need to be eliminated.

I suspect draws odds will change dramatically if these price increases go through. Some people will be trying to get out of the points game and others will be looking very closely if the 20% increase for the "special tags" will be worth the extra money, therefore putting more people in the "regular" draw.
 
Submitted my comments on the Game and Fish Website. Doubt it will do any good. It sure did not help in NM Looks like hunting will only be for the well heeled or landed gentry soon. Sad, Sad, Sad
 
No doubt it will cost more but for those of you who claim it's only $200 more so find the money. Well some of us were close to the limit to begin with. While it may be$200 for the license the cost of the trip has gone up. Not Wyoming problem but if I can't get there a tag is useless. My average trip west calls for over 6000 miles round trip the cost of that fuel alone has doubled. I'd quit drinking and going to the bars...but I don't drink so that wont work. Quit smoking? Never started. ATV..don't own one. Fishing boat..nope. golf...nope. gym membership...none. already work full time on an opposite schedule from the wife to eliminate babysitter at a cost of NEVER having a day off together. My bow is ten years old. My binos are ten year old Nikon. Don't feel sorry for me because I will be there. The point is some of us are already hurting so we can make a trip. Its not a $200 increase just a $200 tag increase. My trip has already increased by hundreds for things beyond Wyoming In the meantime the cost of my homowners just went up. Property taxes up. Medical deductible up food up all with no raise in over six years. Guess I will have to leave the camper at home, not stay in motels, and not eat out...wait I don't own a camper. Sleep in rest areas while driving and a tent while there and cook my own meals. The list of "waste" for me to cut is getting pretty small and the "waste" will soon include a tag.
 
Good comments. It sucks that western big game hunting is becoming a rich man's sport. having to make the decision between hunting out west or buying necessary items to keep the household going is a tough decision. Also, I agree with Llamapacker's comments. I'll spend well over $1500 on gas driving to Wyoming about a month from now. I'm going DIY and have never been a trophy hunter but when you start paying the kind of money it now takes to hunt out west you expect more. Hopefully, these fee increases are just estimates and they get cut in half or even more. I know this is not a political forum but we have got to elect politicians who will get this economy under control, bring down the price of gas, get more people to work, and make the future brighter for everyone.
 
I have emailed the fish and game and encourage all of us too with your thoughts and suggestions. Also call there is a number available on their website. I am one who can pay the increase however feel it is a bad idea and will hurt our sport. Someone else mentioned that and I feel the same. It's not just us, but wives and family members those putting in for multiple people and species this will really effect. If we stop putting our children in where will hunting be in the future. I know some on here are saying great, better odds for me if they don't put in. However in the long run I feel that will be the wrong attitude to have, and will hurt us all in the future. I encourage us all to say something now, and suggest alternate means of funding that the Wgf is looking into besides huge tag increases. Good luck to all this year in their upcoming hunts.
 

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