Public Land Sell/Transfer, LDS Connection?

C

COSA

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-16 AT 08:16PM (MST)[p]Seems that many of the leaders of this transfer/sell movement are also affiliated with the LDS religion. Is this simply because the movement sprouted in Utah/Eastern NV/SE ID, or is there a connection and possible financial backing? I'm of the understanding that the church is one of the larger private land owners in the country.

Please don't have thin skin if you're Mormon as I'm not of the opinion every member wants to transfer/sell public lands - it's an important issue that I'm trying to understand better.
 
I have not seen where the church has commented on the issue, but since Utah is approximately 60% LDS there is probably a good chance there are a few on both sides of it.
 
Just because the church is a land owner, does not mean they are on either side of the issue. As a Mormon, I know that the church will always be neutral about highly publicized issues. They do own a fair bit of property, and it is used to provide for not only the members in times of need, but when there is a disaster, many of the foods, and other things that are sent, are made or produced on these properties. This same LDS connection came up in another thread with more negative overtones attached. And the church is a very good steward of the lands they own. Read the story about the Florida Cattle operation they own. It will blow you away. Financial backing may come from some well off Mormons, but the church is very careful what they do. I don't have a thin skin, and I am just saying that don't read into it more than needs be. It is a political and financial issue for those who would profit from it. Business and Personal, not religious.
 
>They do own a fair bit of property

Now there's an understatement. :)



I agree that this is not a religious issue. It's business.

That does beg the question tho... who would like more to see Utah's federal lands sold to private hands than a 35+ billion dollar business which derives 7+ billion dollars a year from donations by its members and is already the largest land owner in at least one other state?

Just sayin... ;-)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-23-16 AT 00:13AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-23-16 AT 00:12?AM (MST)

I have no idea what the church's stance is on the public land transfer, but by way of clarification to mgdhunter's post. The church has two different types of farms/ranches - investment farms and welfare farms. Investment farms are revenue generating farms where grazing, hunting, and other rights are leased out. Members and nonmembers worldwide don't benefit much from these farms by way of food, goods, etc. The Florida cattle operation is one of these investment farms - the cattle produced are either sold on the open market or kept for replacements.

Welfare farms are completely different than investment farms because all the products produced on welfare farms directly affect members and nonmembers locally and worldwide by way of the Bishop's Storehouse, disaster relief aid, etc.
 
These kind of posts are kinda funny. First, to the "the church stays neutral" guys, are you freaking kidding me? Did they stay neutral on the gay marriage issue? Do they stay neutral on liquor policy? THE CHURCH gets a heads up straight from the legislature on EVERY law.

Second, THE CHURCH owns a ton of land, that it uses for revenue as was discussed previous, and the land they don't is NOT TAXED. Just like any other individual/business, THE CHURCH has lawyers and CPA's that spend their days finding tax loopholes.

Third, the Ken Ivory of the world aren't church backed. They are the kind of religious guys who make sure that the world knows they are part of "the brotherhood", so as to add some sort of trust factor. I doubt highly that the boys in SLC know him, and to be fair, probably would prefer he not wear that brotherhood patch on his sleeve.

THE CHURCH, isn't evil. It isn't some conquering force out to take over the world. Most of what they stand for I personally prefer(jack Mormon). But they are as ruthless and hardnose as any other business entity when it comes to business(ask the contractors who build their buildings), so I am sure that when push comes to shove, they will lean the way that benefits them, and honestly why should they be differnet than me in that regard?




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Most of the hunters are non believers, as the tags are sold by the outfitters who lease the hunting rights. Corporations buy a good number of the tags for promotional purposes.

Yelum

YBU

7019yelumlogosig2.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-23-16 AT 07:48AM (MST)[p]>I wonder how many non-believers get
>to hunt those lands?
>Low end giver/believer's?


Yelum is correct - 99% of investment farms have their hunting rights leased out. "Believer" or "Nonbeliever" makes no difference.
 
In answer to the original question: No, the LDS Church is not behind the push to transfer federal lands to the state.

Yes, there are many members of the Utah legislature that support this cause of transfer that are also members of the LDS Church, but that does not implicate the LDS Church as guiding the policy.

For the other posts -- The LDS Church does not claim to stay neutral on all political issues. It will, as occasion requires, become very involved in political issues. And even though those issues get a TON of media attention and scrutiny, it does not happen all that frequently. The LDS Church does claim to stay party neutral. The direction from Church leadership is very clear on this. In fact, high ranking officials in the Quorum of the 12 and First Presidency, even within the last 10-15 years, have been registered Democrats.

Deseret is the largest church property used for hunting in Utah. Anyone that has the money or gets lucky to draw can hunt there, regardless of church affiliation. I do believe, however, that they do not allow hunting on Sundays for anyone. If anyone knows differently, correct that as that is just something I have heard.
 
Vanilla summed it up pretty well.

The Church does not stand by the sideline when it comes to Christian Values, defending the family, and religious liberty. They believe let people worship how, where, or what they may.

The LDS church, like the red cross, does a lot of service and welfare all over the world to needy people.

Church leaders encourage its members to support those who share common values. They encourage its members to be involved. About every year a statement is read in congregations about being political neutral and not to endorse a person or party.

No hunting on Sundays on the Desert. Its open to all who can purchase a tag or draw a tag.
 
Interesting and timely that this would come up on my feed today. I added the underlining of text most related to this post

http://www.thespectrum.com/story/op...tuality-stewardship-call-bears-ears/86161282/


Spirituality, stewardship call for Bears Ears


Participants of Faith and the Land, Guest Editorial 7:26 p.m. MDT June 22, 2016


In 2009, members of 10 Utah faith traditions crafted an Interfaith Statement on the spiritual values of wild lands.

Our vision: ?We need to preserve and provide protective stewardship of Utah?s wild lands not only for our own spiritual well-being and that of people to come, but also out of respect for the sanctity of all things.?

Utah?s people of faith, from Mormons to Catholics to Jews to Muslims, made clear in these ?Faith and the Land? conversations that they agree with a member of Chavurah B?Yachad, Salt Lake City?s Reconstructionist Jewish congregation, who wrote: ?We are stewards of the earth; we must preserve its beauty and make it an even better place for our children and grandchildren.?

An LDS Church member finds that ?wilderness is a place where we can be our best selves.?

The Inter-tribal Coalition wove that call for stewardship into their proposal for a Bears Ears National Monument. Five Southwestern tribes seek to preserve their sacred lands ? an act of stewardship supported by more than 25 Native nations and two-thirds of Utahns.

This monument would recognize values embodied by the Bears Ears landscape that sweeps southward from Canyonlands National Park across Cedar Mesa to the Navajo Nation: ??long-distance Southwestern views; pure, stunning quiet; and the gift to visitors of taking time away from the workaday world, slowing down, and healing.?

We do not see such respect and restraint in Congressman Rob Bishop?s Public Lands Initiative.

In the ?Faith and the Land? conversations, we found common ground. We discovered that faith unites rather than divides in wilderness politics. When we presented our joint statement to Utah?s elected officials, we asked them to listen, to be true stewards of the public trust, to act from our shared understanding of common sense and common values.

Alas, the Public Lands Initiative draft does the opposite. The PLI hides unprecedented and destructive proposals that open up public lands to new fossil fuel development and vehicle routes, decreasing protection for wildlife and watersheds and accelerating carbon pollution and climate change.

The short-sighted PLI sees wild lands as commodities to be used now and used up, with no commitment to preserving our blessed land for generations to come. In contrast, the Bears Ears proposal invites generations of visitors to find refuge in a healing land that deepens family bonds and opens us spiritually.

President Obama waited for the Utah congressional delegation?s ?grand bargain.? But they offer only an ill-conceived embrace of the fossil fuel industry. And, so, for those who find spiritual common ground in unspoiled country, the choice is clear. We must set aside the failed PLI. The president should proceed with his visionary proclamation of Bears Ears National Monument.

In doing so, President Obama preserves a vast and threatened cultural heritage. He acknowledges the extraordinary resilience of Native people. And he joins with all Americans of faith and goodwill in standing for healing and wholeness.

Stephen Trimble, Chavurah B?Yachad.

Don and Judith Adolphson, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Jean Keller, St. Catherine of Sienna Newman Center.

The Rev. Libby Hunter, Deacon, Cathedral Church of St. Mark.

Jay Vestal, Christ United Methodist.

Richard H. Weber, Our Saviour?s Lutheran Church.

Brian Martin, Salt Lake Quakers.

Dede Carpenter, Community of Grace Presbyterian.

Joan Gregory, Unitarian Universalists.

Jeri Claspill, United Church of Christ.
 
I'm sure Don and Judith maybe good LDS people, but I'm pretty sure they are not acting as official representatives for the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints.

I try to be a good steward of the land. Been a scout master, an Eagle Scout, picked up a lot of trash, did a lot wildlife projects, help on Eagle projects to help the environment, etc. People of all faiths I hope would want to take care of the environment and earth.

Many people of faith believe the earth has natural warming and cooling cycles. Global warming IMO isn't a big deal. There are plenty of national parks and wilderness areas currently in Ut IMO.

It is surprising a little to me that religious groups are rallying for a national monument.
 
Why is it surprising to people that the LDS Church is the largest private land owner in the state of Utah? Utah was settled by Mormons and the LDS Church, if you recall.
 
Yelum is correct - 99% of
>investment farms have their hunting
>rights leased out. "Believer" or
>"Nonbeliever" makes no difference.

So if MY Public Lands are transfered or given to UT and they sell,er gift it to LDS ,I would then have to pay to walk on it?
Sure,what ever you say....
"From My Cold Dead Hands!"
 
>So if MY Public Lands are
>transfered or given to UT
>and they sell,er gift it
>to LDS ,I would then
>have to pay to walk
>on it?
>Sure,what ever you say....
>"From My Cold Dead Hands!"

This gets better and better...
As soon as all the ground is "gifted" to the church my tithing should go down and if I am a member I get first priority to hunt it.
 
>
>>So if MY Public Lands are
>>transfered or given to UT
>>and they sell,er gift it
>>to LDS ,I would then
>>have to pay to walk
>>on it?
>>Sure,what ever you say....
>>"From My Cold Dead Hands!"
>
>This gets better and better...
>As soon as all the ground
>is "gifted" to the church
>my tithing should go down
>and if I am a
>member I get first priority
>to hunt it.

"'Nuff said"
 
>Interesting and timely that this would
>come up on my feed
>today. I added the underlining
>of text most related to
>this post
>
>http://www.thespectrum.com/story/op...tuality-stewardship-call-bears-ears/86161282/
>
>
>Spirituality, stewardship call for Bears Ears
>
>
>
>Participants of Faith and the Land,
>Guest Editorial 7:26 p.m. MDT
>June 22, 2016
>
>
>In 2009, members of 10 Utah
>faith traditions crafted an Interfaith
>Statement on the spiritual values
>of wild lands.
>
>Our vision: ?We need to preserve
>and provide protective stewardship of
>Utah?s wild lands not only
>for our own spiritual well-being
>and that of people to
>come, but also out of
>respect for the sanctity of
>all things.?
>
>Utah?s people of faith, from Mormons
>to Catholics to Jews to
>Muslims, made clear in these
>?Faith and the Land? conversations
>that they agree with a
>member of Chavurah B?Yachad, Salt
>Lake City?s Reconstructionist Jewish congregation,
>who wrote: ?We are stewards
>of the earth; we must
>preserve its beauty and make
>it an even better place
>for our children and grandchildren.?
>
>
>An LDS Church member finds that
>?wilderness is a place where
>we can be our best
>selves.?
>
>The Inter-tribal Coalition wove that call
>for stewardship into their proposal
>for a Bears Ears National
>Monument. Five Southwestern tribes seek
>to preserve their sacred lands
>? an act of stewardship
>supported by more than 25
>Native nations and two-thirds of
>Utahns.
>
>This monument would recognize values embodied
>by the Bears Ears landscape
>that sweeps southward from Canyonlands
>National Park across Cedar Mesa
>to the Navajo Nation: ??long-distance
>Southwestern views; pure, stunning quiet;
>and the gift to visitors
>of taking time away from
>the workaday world, slowing down,
>and healing.?
>
>We do not see such respect
>and restraint in Congressman Rob
>Bishop?s Public Lands Initiative.
>
>In the ?Faith and the Land?
>conversations, we found common ground.
>We discovered that faith unites
>rather than divides in wilderness
>politics. When we presented our
>joint statement to Utah?s elected
>officials, we asked them to
>listen, to be true stewards
>of the public trust, to
>act from our shared understanding
>of common sense and common
>values.
>
>Alas, the Public Lands Initiative draft
>does the opposite. The PLI
>hides unprecedented and destructive proposals
>that open up public lands
>to new fossil fuel development
>and vehicle routes, decreasing protection
>for wildlife and watersheds and
>accelerating carbon pollution and climate
>change.
>
>The short-sighted PLI sees wild lands
>as commodities to be used
>now and used up, with
>no commitment to preserving our
>blessed land for generations to
>come. In contrast, the Bears
>Ears proposal invites generations of
>visitors to find refuge in
>a healing land that deepens
>family bonds and opens us
>spiritually.
>
>President Obama waited for the Utah
>congressional delegation?s ?grand bargain.? But
>they offer only an ill-conceived
>embrace of the fossil fuel
>industry. And, so, for those
>who find spiritual common ground
>in unspoiled country, the choice
>is clear. We must set
>aside the failed PLI. The
>president should proceed with his
>visionary proclamation of Bears Ears
>National Monument.
>
>In doing so, President Obama preserves
>a vast and threatened cultural
>heritage. He acknowledges the extraordinary
>resilience of Native people. And
>he joins with all Americans
>of faith and goodwill in
>standing for healing and wholeness.
>
>
>Stephen Trimble, Chavurah B?Yachad.
>
>Don and Judith Adolphson, The Church
>of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
>Saints.
>
>Jean Keller, St. Catherine of Sienna
>Newman Center.
>
>The Rev. Libby Hunter, Deacon, Cathedral
>Church of St. Mark.
>
>Jay Vestal, Christ United Methodist.
>
>Richard H. Weber, Our Saviour?s Lutheran
>Church.
>
>Brian Martin, Salt Lake Quakers.
>
>Dede Carpenter, Community of Grace Presbyterian.
>
>
>Joan Gregory, Unitarian Universalists.
>
>Jeri Claspill, United Church of Christ.
>


Just a little Advice for NVB!

Never Bad Mouth a Mormon!









[font color="blue"]HUNTIN,FISHIN,AND LOVIN EVERY DAY,I WANNA SEE
THEM TALL PINES SWAY!
[/font]
 
Bess, since your reading comprehension is lower than my granddaughters let me make it clear.

I was NOT bad mouthing any Mormon. I just found it an interesting read. I have wondered the same thing COSA was and I've come to a conclusion and I honestly do not think the public land stealing thing is a church backed move.
 
>Yelum is correct - 99% of
>
>>investment farms have their hunting
>>rights leased out. "Believer" or
>>"Nonbeliever" makes no difference.
>
>So if MY Public Lands are
>transfered or given to UT
>and they sell,er gift it
>to LDS ,I would then
>have to pay to walk
>on it?
>Sure,what ever you say....
>"From My Cold Dead Hands!"


My comment was to explain what currently happens with some of the current property that the LDS church has purchased and owned for many years - take Deseret Land & Livestock for example - the property is owned by the LDS church, CWMU tags are available for the public via the drawing, and the hunting rights are leased out. I have no idea what will happen if/when the public lands are transferred to the state and then sold/gifted to the LDS church.
 
>Bess, since your reading comprehension is
>lower than my granddaughters let
>me make it clear.
>
>I was NOT bad mouthing any
>Mormon. I just found it
>an interesting read. I have
>wondered the same thing COSA
>was and I've come to
>a conclusion and I honestly
>do not think the public
>land stealing thing is a
>church backed move.

So NVB?

Now You're Sayin/Blaming the Church?

And not Elected Officials?














[font color="blue"]HUNTIN,FISHIN,AND LOVIN EVERY DAY,I WANNA SEE
THEM TALL PINES SWAY!
[/font]
 
"The Church does not stand by the sideline when it comes to Christian Values, defending the family, and religious liberty. They believe let people worship how, where, or what they may."

This statement in itself is one giant contradiction. What if someone else's religous beliefs are contrary to the church's interpretation of "Christian" values? Would they simply just "stand by the sideline" and let people "worship how, where, or what they may?" Unfortunately I don't think so as their past actions have proven otherwise.
 
>>Bess, since your reading comprehension is
>>lower than my granddaughters let
>>me make it clear.
>>
>>I was NOT bad mouthing any
>>Mormon. I just found it
>>an interesting read. I have
>>wondered the same thing COSA
>>was and I've come to
>>a conclusion and I honestly
>>do not think the public
>>land stealing thing is a
>>church backed move.
>
>So NVB?
>
>Now You're Sayin/Blaming the Church?
>
>And not Elected Officials?
>
>


???????????????????????????????????

Please read what I said again.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/23514.html#20
 
Wonder how many people would join the church if they had a member only drawing to hunt Deseret CWMU....
 
I agree 100% with Vanilla and huntin50's posts. As an active member of the LDS church, I think the movement to transfer public lands is a terrible idea. But none of the decision makers have asked my opinion.

-Hawkeye-
 
This has nothing to do about religion. It is driven by the money people, who ever they may be. It is also driven by the conservatives who believe the smaller the federal government the better. I don't believe they are correct, but just maybe they are. The Fed's might swap the land to the Chinese for all of the money they own them. Maybe you should look at the real issues on this one rather than a conjured uneducated view point.

What would you do if you owed way more than the land was worth and couldn't pay for it? You or I would loose it sooner than later.

The time is coming folks!
 
I guess I started a firestorm. MY point was that those who are putting the blame, even if partial, on the Church, are just looking for an argument. I'm sorry that I brought up the point that they own property. Obviously it touched a sore nerve with some. Really doesn't help to point fingers. There are a lot of things in play her, and hunting is not the only thing that is affected by it. For or against??? Depends on if you benefit from it. I for one, want to keep public lands public, and hope all can be cordial. Why speculation (Blame)? Makes people feel better to have someone to blame. I'm sorry, as a member of the LDS church, I just wanted to voice that there are non-members involved in this as much as any other. And, like other fights in the Hunting/Gun debate, "IF WE DON"T STICK TOGETHER" a divided house will fall!!!
 
First. Alcohol isn't a Christian value, and the Church is more than involved. The issue I have always had with that is simple, pay to play. If the CHURCH wants to get involved in politics they have every right, HOWEVER, since they want to not pay taxes, then they shouldn't.

I work in construction. My whole life I have watched as developers and contractors make it known they are stake president, or bishop. Those guys are generally the ones who plan on not paying you. Everyday Mormons just live there life and practice their faith, most not wanting to grandstand it, or use it as a secret handshake or dog whistle. That really has nothing to do with the church. In this case, it seems a bunch of people, want to let it be known they are important members, or have the right "secret handshake". I doubt the church has that big of a care. Having said that, THE CHURCH isn't continually buying land for no reason, and I am sure that they would be at the head of the table if all of Utah opened up for sale. I mean just the 10% they get from Hawkeye would buy some pretty prime acreage(sorry bud had to poke you ambulance chasers a little bit;)). I have a DU sticker on my rig, but I doubt DU wants me talking for them because of it. Likewise just because you wear garments, doesn't make you the spokeman for the CHURCH.

And, as usual, and before he trolls on in on how the Mormons in Texas pay 15% so they are way better than those Utah Mormons. Or that the because Rulon Jeffs moved to Texas because he is the one and only true prophet...

TRI YOUR WRONG AGAIN!



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
"My whole life I have watched as developers and contractors make it known they are stake president, or bishop. Those guys are generally the ones who plan on not paying you."

No truer words have ever been spoken. I own my own contracting business too. I can usually spot them right off the bat or have done work for them before. I have a special contract just for them and won't step foot on a job unless It's signed. Been burned too any times.
 
I have a part time foundation plastering business. Need some extra funds to hunt and teach my boys about hard work. I must be lucky. Never been stiffed for a job in over 30 years.

There are good and bad people in all faiths.
 
Amen to that Huntin.

Puff, If a person uses their religion to make a point to get business watch out, but I've sure seen a lot of crappy contractors who bash a person who may have a religious position and may have held money because of that poor performance.

People are people, watch who you deal with regardless of religion or non at all. Most of all watch those who bash ones religion, they are the worst to take you to the cleaners.
 

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