Public Land Selloff

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Elkoholic3030

Guest
The public land sell-off is only one example, albeit an extremely important one, of the disconnect between our government and its people. It is encouraging to see some wins against the land auction bill, but there is more fight to fight. I applaud group organizations... notable mentions to RMEF, TU, TRCP, Boone & Crockett, Back Country Hunters and Anglers...tossing their hats in the ring, but I feel strongly that individuals need to step up and increase communication to leaders in our local, state, and federal government. Even if it is a simple note, phone call, or filling out a form letter on their website I encourage you to take that step. As I don't want to be the kettle calling the pot black, attached is the letter I drafted (First Photo) that has been sent to the US Senators who voted yes on SA838 (Second Photo). I encourage you to do the same, or better.


Regards-
One voter hoping to influence just a couple more...

9395publiclandselloff.jpg


8733sa838votes.jpg
 
Notice which party voted against the land grab and who voted for it. I hope you conservatives write your Senators about this. The House Rep also voted for a similar bill
 
Funny, I don't hear our resident wingnuts making any sounds?
I predicted this public land stuff some time ago, does anyone remember?

If there is one thing I know, that's the rancid heart and soul of the right.
Growing up in an extreme rightwing town taught me well.
 
Piper maybe with most of us we feel the economy and budget deficit is of a more important priority. Kind of hard for most working stiffs to enjoy the great outdoors if they are out of a job.

I would like to see some cutbacks on welfare and even getting the loafers off of Medicare that are abusing the system.


RELH
 
Funny thing how the right was giving trillions away in tax cuts a few years ago.

You do remember? After Clinton straightened things out, got the economy going. The right couldn't wait to get the vote for me tax cuts going.

Start a war, create a huge new government program,
Or two, promote a budget deficit, and now sell off public land, saying we need the money.

It's classic right wing, and nothing is as loathsome, crooked and deceitful. They make me sick to my stomach.
 
Pretty much a party line vote. isn't that something? it's like one party cares about out public lands and one wants to sell them to the Koch brothers. who would have ever thought such a thing?


TR would be so proud of his chit based party he wasn't proud of. lets sell off the one good thing the one good republican leader ever did for the American people.

Well not quite true, Gerald Ford may not have done anything special but he was a good republican leader. he cared that's worth something.

The kool aid crowd won't play here they know there's nothing they can say .
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
"disposal of certain Federal land"

What certain Federal land? Let's see a map. How can you blindly reject it without knowing?

Here you go piper.

464agx1741z.jpg
 
Let me get this right, you worry that banning UZI's will lead to banning muzzle loaders, but you don't mind the feds deciding what public lands we need after they balance the checkbook? Yellowstone would be a great investment for Sheldon and that money could fund another war. win win right?

I don't need any government bean counter or fat white republican telling me what lands my country doesn't need anymore. I need it all.

If there is an obvious case where sale makes sense bring it up on a case by case basis. like we do today.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Piper one of the best Democrat Presidents was John F. Kennedy and he promoted tax cuts in order to promote more jobs and it showed to have good merit for doing that.

Are you now saying that Kennedy was a bad president and what he did makes you sick to your stomach?

RELH
 
Neither Piper or 440 has a remedial knowledge of history & that's why it so easy to tie them up in knots.... Another new found knee slapping liberal AZbullchitter falls into the same camp. They tout the party line even though creating jobs would do more for everyone. Wages haven't gone up and the price of those pickups are up more than the average guy takes home in the same time frame. The middle class is shrinking and the poor have suffered the most under the president that hands out free phones like candy because the unknowing can't even fathom they're in way over their heads.

The cops are becoming the scapegoats of society because we need to focus on something other than the democratic failure with the deficit and the fact 38% of the work force has stopped looking for jobs.

Azbullchitter you keep stating that you use facts when reality shows you wouldn't be able to discern them if they bit you in the ass. The actual facts are most household incomes are shrinking because of static wages and inflation and consumers are being caught in the pinch in spite of how well you think we're doing. All Americans are paying far more for those pickup trucks than they were in 2008. If they weren't making low interest subsidized loans with extended terms many wouldn't be able to afford them. Funny how you inflate the price of the vehicle by building the low interest rates and other incentives into the costs works out. It not only inflates the coast of the vehicle it adds more profit to the bottom line for selling fewer vehicles..... So those record profits you love to tout have a large measure of Obamanomics that actually adds to the deficit in the big equation. I'll leave it to your astute business knowledge to try to discern just how.

How come we have so many commercial vacancies that previously held businesses that employed folks are still there? Get out of the small towns and take a look in the big cites where you can actually see stark reality. Those businesses aren't vacant because the economy's doing well.

Gee 440 isn't it nice to sit there in the bully pulpit and chastise folks that aren't doing as well as you are. Yet you're one of the biggest offenders on here for exploitation of the down trodden. I'm sure we'd be overwhelmed with all the benefit packages you've avoided paying to the folks that made you rich, all under the guise of good business. What makes it even more hypocritical is you condemn those that actually gave their employees more to actually better their standard of living just like Piper. Hint, Piper those Unions you love to support actually promote employee benefits quite heavily as part of their benefit plans. Yet your guy gave them a pass on feeling the true impact of his health care plan. WHY?

So yes I'm concerned about federal lands being sold (and oppose it) but let's face reality for a moment at least somebody's trying to come up with some plan to help actually reduce the deficit. Let's face it our businesses have been on the auction block and Obama and the dems think free phones and giving grants to defunct business' is the answer along with putting folks out of work to save the planet even though it only creates more dependency. So what the hell I guess it makes far more sense than unlimited printing of money which hasn't reduced the deficit one dam dime.

Besides I can't understand what's got you boys so upset the hunting's going to hell in this country in many places anyway because of our innocent little friends in the democratic party giving us wolves and fighting our states to allow them to manage our wildlife in any fashion they disagree with and I don't hear you crying about that. So in reality less land should make them easier to hunt of course that's assuming the dems don't get it outlawed in their quest for civil disarmament.
 
Bosgeek , never has there been anyone who can say so little with so many words as you.

Nobody cares about your opinion on anything, so at least stick to the subject and keep it real.

What lands will be sold? where will the money go? and how much debt reduction will there actually be? most important, will it happen? that is the only question with a definite answer and that answer is an easy NO.

Chalk this up as one more failure for you and your heroes.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
The facts Boskee there is little or no inflation. Wages have been rising not extreme but they went up last year and as of Friday they went up .02% for the month. Millions of jobs have been created whereas with your hero we lost millions. Check the CPI and you would see there is no inflation. If you are so concerned with the poor and upset with the wealthy why don't tell your Congressman to raise the minimum wage and raise taxes on the wealthy. Instead your boys want to eliminate the min wage and sell off public lands. One nut says let us look at lands. 48% of public lands should not require a map.

Automobiles as adjusted for inflation are no more expensive than they were 10 years ago. You should blame your friends as they oppose unions which help members get a respectable wages.They support right to work laws which hold wages down. Remember another hero LET GM GO BANKRUPT. They oppose improving the infrastructure which would create thousands of jobs

These are the facts. Why waste my time educating you.
 
I'll try to keep my future posts to a yes, no or an uneducated grunt so you can actually comprehend things a little. That way you and your finger won't get lost trying to keep up.
 
I see no legal path to states taking federal lands without federal consent. let them waste money trying.


Bosgeek whoever paid for your education has a refund coming. it didn't work. you didn't answer the questions , pretty complicated stuff huh?















Stay thirsty my friends
 
AZBULLCHITTER, nice try son next time you're in an economics class try to pay attention that way you learn something. You don't have to educate me, I retired before I was 52 and I ran companies that had union and non union employees in some cases in the same facility depending on their job skills. I was one of those evil capitalists that gave folks jobs with benefits and paid them living wages even in right to work states. I didn't say I opposed unions I said they negotiated for benefits so try to keep up.

So if things are rosy what happened to the 38% that stopped looking for jobs? Where are they accounted for in your numbers? You are aware that we need to create 160,000+++ jobs per month just to keep up with the birth rate aren't you? Numbers are a funny thing when you use the numbers you want to represent things they can look awfully good. But when you use realistic numbers they can also paint a different picture. I'll give you this, things are getting better and fat cats have gotten fatter on Obama's watch, but we aren't out of the woods yet by a long shot.

Retirees depleting their savings and rising health care costs haven't even been factored into things and those bills will come due after Obama has left the White House ( more dependency has never eliminated any deficit in any country in the world). It takes two party's to fix things in this country not one. Bush Sr. and Clinton proved that. Bush Jr and Obama have shown that not working together isn't the path to prosperity. No matter how you want to twist the knife Obama has INCREASED the deficit more than any president in this nations history and given that his MO is to always blame the other guy or misrepresent the facts why would you be so ignorant as to believe him?
 
Blah blah blah.

If you want to shoot your mouth off about how awful something is explain how you would have done it better.

What happened is pretty much what had to happen. D or R by the name changes little. you want Clinton to take the blame for the 2007 depression and Obama to get no credit for bailing us out.

You have all the answers until you're asked a question.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-15 AT 02:39PM (MST)[p]Who is willing to bet whether or not that public lands will be turned over to the states in the next 100 years? There is settled law on the side of the Federal Government. If the Republicans truly are suicidal on this issue and will push to the point of passing a law that says this, I would advise anyone with brains to become an attorney because the job security from the lawsuits to follow will make you a 1%.

So let's see who seriously believes this will happen or if it will just be another political football used to raise money on both sides of the aisle? I am betting on the latter.

Liberals need a threat to keep the money flowing as much as the Tea Party does.

Nemont
 
Once again your lack of reading C_O-M-P_R_E_H_E_N_S_I_O_N works against you, you damn moron. We never see you offer any solutions on anything but we sure see you do a hell of a lot of bashing on here. Once again you prove you can't understand the written word maybe if I could have figured out a way to put it in a racist context it could have given you something to whine about for the cause. Shut up and sit down your moron card is showing again. Here's your sign.
 
As the Utah politician says at the end of the article Buzz posted. "It's the principle"

That's the point, the rightwing has values that I oppose, and it shows on things like public land selloffs, health care and on environmental issues.

Greed, hatred, bigotry and narrow mindedness are hallmarks of todays rightwing.
 
Nemont is right it's not going to happen. I'm still lost as to why even bring it up.


Bosgeek , as usual you can't stick to the subject if it was bolted to your face. I gave you a solution but you were too busy talking to hear it. raise taxes on most americans. get it? do you think we'd be world cop if we had to pay to play? do you think we would have spent 4 trillion dollars in Iraq if we knew we were getting a tax increase rather than a tax cut? hell no .

The answer is as simple as you are. you just don't like it.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON May-12-15 AT 09:37AM (MST)[p] Blownutz, Keep working on that comprehension angle I actually paid Clinton a compliment you ignorant fool. Trouble with you is you only absorb 5% of anything written and get lost in your own lack of comprehension. I'm beginning to suspect that you have some serious impairment issues with your cognitive function accelerated by your love of the hooch. You're really not the one to be telling anyone to stick to the subject SKIPPY because you constantly spin any subject where you realize your lame argument has been turned against you which happen quite frequently.

You're as funny as your little prot?g? trying to get a rise out of me with his right to work state crap. He lives in a small town in N. AZ and if he is in fact a construction contractor most likely utilizes nonunion workers in some capacity in that market. So to say he most likely is a hypocrite is putting it mildly. He lives in a right to work state so thinking he's smoozing us with his angle shows his ignorance. He's still got dew behind his ears.

So now that we've established that you can't understand what your read why don't you start a new thread and we'll comment on it if it suits us.

So raising taxes is your answer? Let's see how many democrats use that as a focal point of their campaign? My guess is you won't hear Hillary do it when most American are living paycheck to paycheck and increased healthcare costs from Obama care in many cases which was a tax did just that! Funny how lying to get legislation passed can come back to bite one in the end doesn't it. But we pandered to the uneducated and thrust it upon those carrying the load. Those annual visits to the hospital with kids makes a dent in those savings accounts when they have little to no way to rebuild it quickly with the increased deductibles. Guys like us are insulated from that reality but I can assure you it's not making things easy for the average working guy. Oh yes I know they get some of it back but it's not immediate and won't make the mortgage payment or put groceries in the house when they might need it..... So they use the old credit card and increase their debt load. My hasn't that worked out fine.

So if they tripled taxes on everyone how many years would it take to eliminate the deficit? Why not put more folks to work by figuring out a way so we have millions more contributing instead of playing the free stuff game and adding to the debt, the printing money game is a loser in spite of what they want to tell us.

Increased taxes never has got ANY politicians elected so you're kidding yourself thinking the average guy and anyone on a fixed income is going is going to jump at that. The little guys didn't create the issue Washington did, yet they're stuck picking up the tab and they need to stop the partisan crap and fix the mess they caused.

By that way isn't it quite remarkable that we hold an NFL quarterback to a higher standard than we do a Democrat running for president? :)
 
Good article. Thanks for sharing. Incredible qoute at the end.

"its not about the money. It's about the principal"
 
Christ you can babble on like a woman at a tuperware party.


When you spend more than you make what do you do? cut expenses, earn more or better yet both. why is the government different?

How did we enter into a 4 trillion dollar war and get a tax break the same year that still is in effect today? what other time in history did we start a war and take a tax break ?

answer these questions your opinion means less than nothing to me so save the novel.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
Can't fight a logical argument can you. You're simplistic approach has been covered on here for years by MANY far better minds than yours will ever be,( which you opposed) yet it just doesn't happen why? Looks to me like you may be thinking about joining the TEA BAGGERS since that's been their solution all along..... But you've been highly critical of them haven't you.... You damn hypocritical fool.

Must be drunk again since now you're arguing for positions you opposed...... yep you're a damn liberal MORON. You talk out of both sides of you piehole constantly just to create problems trouble is the only one you've ever solved is how to get the cork out of that bottle, so have another on us to celebrate your success ..... Trouble with being a chit disturber is eventually you manage to sit in what you're slinging..... in your case you rolled in it.
 
I asked specific questions relevant to the subject. if you're too dumb to answer just say no, save me the agony of reading your incoherent nonsense.

If you're too dumb to look at how we collect revenue and how we spend it I don't need an asshat like that telling me to consider selling my public lands.







Stay thirsty my friends
 
The radicals right may have jumped the gun on this one. They are getting some opposition from normally friendly folks.

I believe the radicals want to privatize, and transferring to the states is a roundabout way to make eventual privatization happen. I believe the moderates are appeasing them, there is a little "house of cards" playing going on.

It has nothing to do with the deficit that's for sure, if they really cared about the deficit they would have kept the Clinton tax code intact.
 
Boskee give me your solutions I keep hearing all the talk that public land sell off is no big deal since all the unemployed guys can not hunt anyway. What part of low unemployment rate/falling jobless claims do you not understand. Oh that's right all those numbers are phony and wall street is being duped. Why some many profitable companies sitting on more cash than ever? If you or anyone does not have a job it is because you do not want to work.
 
The solution is to not transfer public lands. If the management isn't what you want it to be then congress is the place to lobby and in politics you never get 100% of what you want.

The employment numbers are phoney. Wall Street isn't being duped they are duping the low hanging fruit how never took econ 101. There is no free lunch, you cannot create an economy out of debt and money printing.

If Obama was a Republican and we had the same economy we have now you would be whining like a little girl about how unfair it is. Why do you think the top 1% has done so well under Obama?

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/15/news/economy/income-inequality-obama/

Jobs
As of December, the economy had gained a net total of 3,246,000 jobs since Obama first took office, and the unemployment rate had fallen to 6.7 percent, down from 7.8 percent. Despite the gains, more than 10 million people remained unemployed, including 3.9 million who had been out of work for 27 weeks or longer. That's an increase of nearly 1.2 million ?long-term unemployed? since the start of the Obama presidency. The average time that an unemployed person in December had been looking for work was 37 weeks, nearly double the average at the time Obama entered the White House.


Stagnant Wages, Record Corporate Profits

The divide between the affluent and ordinary wage earners ? which the president last month called the ?defining challenge of our time? ? has widened during his time in office.
Wages remain stagnant, barely keeping up with inflation. Average weekly earnings of workers on payrolls, measured in inflation-adjusted dollars, have edged up a scant 0.3 percent between Obama?s first month in office and November 2013, the most recent on record. And there's no clear upward trend. We reported a 0.1 percent increase in the real earnings figure in our July update six months ago, but that had evaporated by the time of our October update three months later, when the figure was exactly zero.Relatively fewer people now own their own homes. Under Obama, the home ownership rate has declined by 2.4 percentage points, to 65.1 percent in the July-September quarter, according to U.S. Census figures. (The decline actually began in 2004, when the rate peaked at 69.4 percent as the housing bubble was inflating.)And the number of low-income persons on food stamps (now called Supplemental Nutrition Assistance, or SNAP) continues at near-record levels. The most recent figures from the Department of Agriculture put the number receiving benefits at just over 47.4 million as of October ? or 15 percent of the entire U.S. population.That's down a bit from the nearly 47.8 million record set in December 2012. But it is still an increase of 48.3 percent during Obama?s presidency.


So I can't see why a liberal would love an economy where almost all the benefit flows to the top, the bottom 55% has seen it's job prospects dim, wages stagnate further and lose more ground in real terms in wealth? Bragging that companies are sitting on mountsin of cash is an argument that there isn't any productive use in our economy for additional capacity because the money all flowed to the top. That would be what I would expect from a free market kind of guy, not a liberal who supposedly is a champion of the poor and middle class.

It is a great economy if you don't happen to be poor or uneducated. Also it is the perfect Republican economy where the rich do great, the middle class limps along and now liberals are saying if anyone doesn't have a job they are just lazy. Since that is the case what good is the Democrat party?

I see they just agreed to make the middle class compete more for jobs withe TPP headed for fast track approval.

Nemont
 
Thanks Buzz, Chris always says it like it is, and in a clear understandable way.

All sportsmen need to read that article.
 
The economy is much better than it was in 07-08-09 and so you should jump on the band wagon. No one has provided any solutions just blame, excuses, and complaints. It is apparent who is running the Repubic party, the Koch brothers. Is Clive Bundy still your hero?
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-15 AT 11:54AM (MST)[p]

No Cliven Bundy isn't my hero. If you wipe the Obama jizz out of your eye and read what I typed, you could understand what I said about public lands.


See below:

NeMont (6213 posts)

May-14-15, 09:51 AM (MST)

29. "RE: Public Land Selloff"
The solution is to not transfer public lands. If the management isn't what you want it to be then congress is the place to lobby and in politics you never get 100% of what you want.



You are a typical Obama lover in that you are cheering on an economy where even by Obama's own admission, "95% of the gains have gone to the top 1%".

If a Republican stated that, and it is also a fact, you would lose your mind over the unfairness of it all.

So before you swallow, spit it out and do 2 minutes of critical thinking.

Public lands are our heritage and the States cannot manage them because it is far easier to buy off state legislators. In Montana you can do it with a nice steak and some high grade hooch. I don't trust state politicians either.

Nemont
 
This was an interesting and important thread until it got sidetracked......!

Make no mistake....the Transfer law would result in a sell-off of public lands. Idaho was granted 3.7 million acres at Statehood. Idaho has sold/disposed of 32% of that land to date (@1.2 million acres)and is still selling or trading it for dubious "property" or "asset". Look around at every other western state and you will see a very similar trend. The problem isn't, in my opinion, a liberal/Demo or conservative/GOP issue. It doesn't matter which party is in power at the State level....if Fed land becomes State lands, the State will sell much or all of them over time. Politicians just can't resist digging into whatever cookie jar is available to pay bills...and a public land windfall would be a gigantic and lucrative cookie jar. The reason politicians would reach into this windfall to generate short-term money is because it allows politicians to avoid the tough decisions of funding government....i.e.making tough decisions on spending and taxation. Instead of ticking of a constituency by either 1) eliminating/cutting back on a program or 2) raising taxes to continue to fully pay for a program....they put off the hard work of good governance and look for the easy solution...which in this case would be by selling off public land to avoid a tough, tough political decision.
Do you think this is new politics? Here is a quote about State Endowment lands and how these resources were squandered by States...and look at the author and date!

"In many states the permanent funds and the proceeds which
should have been added to them have been so carelessly
diverted, squandered, wasted, and embezzled so shamefully,
that what ought to be a magnificent endowment?has
dwindled to an almost negligible sum."
- Dr. Fletcher Harper Swift, Columbia University 1911
 
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa276.pdf

Way back in 1997 when the last real run off the sagebrush rebellion/Transfer/States Rights Movement was running strong CATO Inst. put together an interesting document. While to document itself is of little value there was a nugget or two in it.

One of the greatest lines in the document is this one: "To turn federal lands into an asset, rather than a liability, for taxpayers, as well as ensure that they will be managed with both commodity and environmental interests in mind, the lands must receive much better insulation from politicians than would be provided by merely transferring them from one political entity to another. Many people propose to achieve such insulation through privatization. Yet the huge subsidies provided to the nation's croplands that, acre per acre, are several times larger than the subsidies provided for federal land management, indicate that private lands are not immune to fiscal manipulation by politicians."


The transfer movement is stupid.

Nemont
 

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