Putting the fire out!!

B

BigE

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Im just here to state the facts. I was there for the Doyle meeting. I was also there when we harvested the bull so what you're going to get is the real truth. We "White River Guide Service" found this bull July 20th which was 4 days before Doyle had ever approached our hunter about this bull. We sent our hunter pictures that day of the bull. Doyle never spoke to Mark about this bull, he contacted our hunter not Mark and set up the meeting. Doyle also showed some video to the other statewide tag holder whom also declined Doyles services. We have video of this bull and other bulls from this same area. There was no way we were going to relay to Doyle that we already knew about this bull in the fear that he might have someone push this bull out. So yes we did tell Doyle we had some other bulls to look at first but we were protecting our best interests as well. Yes Doyle put a big price tag on the finders fee of $17,000. Why would we have our hunter pay this fee when we already knew where the bull was? We never followed anyone anywhere, we never made any sort of deal whatsoever nor stabbed anyone in the back. We just were not going to show our hand. Another note, Allen was not given this tag it was an open bid and anyone could have bought it. It sold for $47,500. Which for a statewide tag sad to say is a bargain. Doyle could have had a hunter lined up to buy the statewide tag from the footage he took from the year before. We are not out for some glory, you wont see us put out a video trying to make any extra money on this bull. But what I find funny is that Doyle will sill have this bull out on one his next videos making money off it. There was nothing illegal nor injust to harvest this public lands bull.

There are very few places in the world outside of fenced hunting to harvest a bull in velvet so yes our hunter jumped at the chance to kill this bull in velvet just like anyone else would do. I'm not going to sit here and respond to everyones questions and comments unless I feel that it is relevant. Lets not make a mistake about this-there would be no controversy over this bull if it were not for the all mighty dollar driving this. Just thought I might shed a little light on the other side of the story. Also, the picture and score were not posted by anyone affiliated with White River Guide Service!
 
Just think what a 9 year old guide scout could do with $17,000.
WOW, this big bull hunting has gotten spendy.

JB
 
SO???

IS IT TRUE THE 9 YEAR OLD WAS THE FINDER???

AND WHAT DID HE EARN???

SO WHATS THE LIGIT SCORE???

BARGAIN @ 47K!!!

GLAD TO SEE YOU HAD THE BALLS TO LIST YOUR NAME THERE Eric!!!

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
AND ONE MORE QUESTION!!!

WAS A "SHOOT" PLANE USED TO LOCATE THIS BULL & I DO EXPECT THE GODS TRUTH ON THE ANSWER???

THANK YOU!!!

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Great bull, I would love a bull in velvet. Congrats to the guy who killed it. It's obviously not worth 50 grand to me or a lot of us but if I had that kind of money burning a hole in my pocket...
 
Thanks for the first hand version.

I think you still owe us and explaination for the shirts though!
 
I appreciate hearing your side of the story Big E. Congrats to you and the hunter on a fine bull. I can't say I support that kind of hunting, but thats just one mans view. thanks for posting up, and dude....those shirts are nasty.
 
JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!!!

A 400"+ BULL WITHOUT A CAMO SHIRT ON AN ORANGE SHIRT HUNT!!!

WTF???

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
what about the para plane that seems to be a sore subject to you clowns. i have faith that ndow will get you eventually or atleast a stong down draft.
 
Is it me or is does there seem to be a handful of new people insulting a lot of the MM members?




It's Bush's fault!!!
 
So who's lying bigE or Rammu? Rammu stated on the other thread(poor some gas on the fire #14) that Mark sent him a personal text saying he found the bull personaly 3 days before the hunt. bigE said White River found the bull 8 days before the hunt. Two different stories from the same camp that don't match up. Wonder who's telling the truth? I liked your cover, that it was in your best interest to play Doyle to the end because he would spook the bull out of the area. Good one.
 
Sounds like Rammu is full of BS because in the other thread (poor some gas on the fire #13) he says "I just feel sooooooo bad that Mossback lost out on this one!!" then he supposedly texting Mark.. Obviously he is the one that is lying!!
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

LAST EDITED ON Aug-01-07 AT 09:12PM (MST)[p]

Eric, You said that you found this bull 4 days before Doyle called you right? Then why make them drive 5 hours to show you footage of the bull and then make them stay there for 2 hours while you studied it? What kind of crap is that?

You said the second hunter turned down Doyles services right? Your wrong, he had a family engagment that could not be broken.

The 17k you speak of was actually 16k. It was 10k for Jesse and his son Britten, and 6k for a 5 day guided hunt by Western Wildlife Adventures/MossBack.

You also said you never stabbed anyone in the back. Well, why would you give MossBack your word not to kill the bull without them there? Then do it anyway. Thats what most folks call being stabbed in the back. Could be just standard procedure for you I guess. You did it very well.

Lets talk about how much Allen paid for this tag. Allen had the statewide tag in 2006. He went to the state bitching about how he didn't know how early the season started and Nevada refunded his money. He forgot to mention the VERY LARGE bull he wounded and did not recover. It was either crappy shooting or tracking that left this bull to suffer on the mountain but he got his money back. So, he got to hunt 2 years for under 50k and get drunk with his buddy Mark. Its sad that NV lost that money for conservation.

Your guide would have to be pretty wasted to not know when his main clients season started.

Last but not least, Eric, you said there is no video? Why did Mark set up his tripod and camera to capture the kill shot of his life? Well, i t would have been, but he forgot to push "record". What were you going to do with that footage?

As far as Doyle calling Allen. Doyle and Allen are acquaintances from previous chats. Why would he call Mark?



Eric, just a little FYI, Marshall that was working for Mark and Allen, went to the other Gov tag holder and tried to sell him a bull. Whats up with that?


Eric, know the facts before you reply. I have held my cards watching this unfold. Throw in the towel guy, its over.
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

Wrong Answer mr. LOOKINFAR!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just goes to show you are just tossing out trash and hope that someone picks it up for you!
 
I think Rammu was being a bit sarcastic when he made that comment. I dont think he is the biggest fan of mossback....I think he rides the jock of a different Utah Outfitter.
 
>Sounds like Rammu is full of
>BS because in the other
>thread (poor some gas on
>the fire #13) he says
>"I just feel sooooooo bad
>that Mossback lost out on
>this one!!" then he supposedly
>texting Mark.. Obviously he is
>the one that is lying!!
>

Have you ever heard of sarcasm?
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

How many money tags is there, and who is this marshal, is he marks business partner, because i thought the master guide has to do all the business. lw
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

This whole thing is REALLY bad. And thanks to those involved with this stupid fiasco (and the droptine bull event), shooting of game has a black eye. Notice I didn't mention hunting. There used to be a game farm here where I lived. We called it the Pet and Shoot. Seems like what you professionals are doing. And to bicker and ##### about "whose" bull it was or is. Stupid stuff. Pays the bills though I bet. If you guys had to guide a real elk hunt, no cameras, no motels, no 4wheelers, no scouted bulls, no score of bone, well..... Would you? mtmuley
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

Actually TUFFBUCKER I really did get the text from MArk.. And no I dont ride the Jock of any outfitter.. I will let you do that job.. I dislike outfitting all together I thought maybe you would of figured that out by now!
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

Like sand through a monkeys ass, so are the days of our lives................jeez.

JB
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

>This whole thing is REALLY bad.
>And thanks to those involved
>with this stupid fiasco (and
>the droptine bull event), shooting
>of game has a black
>eye. Notice I didn't mention
>hunting. There used to be
>a game farm here where
>I lived. We called it
>the Pet and Shoot. Seems
>like what you professionals are
>doing. And to bicker and
>##### about "whose" bull it
>was or is. Stupid stuff.
>Pays the bills though I
>bet. If you guys had
>to guide a real elk
>hunt, no cameras, no motels,
>no 4wheelers, no scouted bulls,
>no score of bone, well.....
>Would you? mtmuley

Please explain what you mean by, "guide a real elk hunt, no cameras, no motels, no 4wheelers, no scouted bulls, no score of bone". Does that mean no 'modern' equipment? You guys are so damn hypocritical it ain't even funny anymore. You all act like you are Jim Bridger or something, I got news for you, you ain't!

I HAVE guided hunters on wilderness hunts into the backcountry on horseback, staying in wall tents. You have never seen me post a SINGLE picture of any elk I have guided whenI was an ouotfitter, not ONE. I now work for Mossback, why? Because he treats me good, has NEVER advocated breaking ANY laws, treated me good before I worked for him, when I was a competitor of his he went out of his way to talk and offer help. So, what is your point?

PRO
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

ALL OF YOU GAME PIMPS ARE RUINING IT FOR EVERYONE!
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

2 more days of this elk hunt soap opera and MM will have 12k members....

JB
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

>Sheee's baaack. Thats too funny.
>

Yeah, but I think she's wasted this time. Someone skipped her AA meeting to play with us and hit the bottle instead. Post 28 barely makes sense. Oh well...good entertainment!
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

>Wanna make this clear, not a
>chick!

Feeling a little guilty are we? What made you think I was referring to you? Was it the first time poster with their profile blocked? Learned the hard way didn't you? You've got the compound word with the i-n connector, but the dead give away this time is the word "DUDE" refer to thread "dump some fuel on the fire" #20 and #22. Looks like a match to me dude.
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

Yup, nice try Huntnfreak/Big-E
By misrepresenting yourself as different people which you are not...you will clearly go to any extent to spew BS,
Seen many times here, kind of why we attach credibility to # of posts.
Hadn't made up my mind on this matter but you convinced me the blue shirts are full of horse-$hit.
 
I GUESS I NEED TO CHIME IN HERE AND SAY FOR TEAM MOSSBACK, "THIS IS OVER, ALL OF IT" MY NAME IS JESSE SHIPP (WITH TEAM MOSSBACK) AND YES MY 9 YEAR OLD SON BRITTON OUT GLASSED ME ON THIS BULL FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. HE FOUND IT FIRST, THE LAST TWO SPRINGS WHILE AT MY SIDE( 06' AND 07'.) YEH! THATS A PRETTY COOL THING WHEN YOUR SON CAN RECOGNIZE THE SAME GIANT BULL EVERYTIME HE GLASSES HIM UP.... I DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL,.... MOSSBACK DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL,.... AND NO, BRITTON DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL. THIS IS WHAT WE DO FOR OUR BUSINESS, SPEND HOURS AND MONEY ( OUR OWN, BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!) TO FIND INCREDIBLE ANIMALS LIKE THIS FOR CLIENTS. AND AGAIN IF ANYONE HAS EVER SEEN AN ANIMAL LIKE THIS, AND YOU THINK YOU MIGHT BE ONE OF THE ONLY ONES TO HAVE SEEN HIM. YOU KIND OF TAKE A LITTLE PERSONAL OWNERSHIP. ( at least i do). THE FACTS HERE ARE THINGS DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR TEAM MOSSBACK THIS TIME.....MARK AND ALAN, YOU GUYS KILLED A ONE IN A MILLON BULL..SOME LIKE TO CALL HIM "NUTTERS"... MARSHALL I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PHONE CALL YOU MADE TO ME LAST WEEK?............... ANYWAYS GUYS, IT IS OVER... THANKS TEAM MOSSBACK FOR EVERTHING WE DID IT RIGHT!

JESSE SHIPP
TEAM MOSSBACK

P.S. ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO KEEP BASHING A 9 YEAR OLD BOY THAT LOVES TO HANG WITH HIS DAD IN THE WOODS AND EARNS HIS KEEP EVERY STEP OF THE WAY...ENUFF SAID?
 
I POSTED A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS!!!

AS USUAL THEY HARDLY EVER GET ANSWERED!!!

I'VE BASHED SOME PEOPLE BUT NEVER A 9 YEAR OLD!!!

GOD I HOPE I NEVER TAKE A 350"+ BULL!!!

I'LL JUST KEEP HUNTING PISSCUTTERS!!!

NOBODY EVER GETS MAD OVER THAT!!!

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
These threads have been great. You get to see some of the underbelly of the big time guide services! Wow - there is so much insinuation and conjecture and posturing and conspiracy - and drama - it is better than the Sopranos!

$50K for an ugly elk in the velvet. I hope you are happy. IMO - velvet is just ugly on deer and worse on elk.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
No Rammu there is no point to my statement, its just an observation. Is that OK?

"I DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL,.... MOSSBACK DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL,.... AND NO, BRITTON DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL.

AND AGAIN IF ANYONE HAS EVER SEEN AN ANIMAL LIKE THIS, AND YOU THINK YOU MIGHT BE ONE OF THE ONLY ONES TO HAVE SEEN HIM. YOU KIND OF TAKE A LITTLE PERSONAL OWNERSHIP. ( at least i do)."


So which is it? You don't own the bull, yet you feel like you own the bull?


"P.S. ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO KEEP BASHING A 9 YEAR OLD BOY THAT LOVES TO HANG WITH HIS DAD IN THE WOODS AND EARNS HIS KEEP EVERY STEP OF THE WAY...ENUFF SAID?"

I must have missed this post. I have not seen anyone bashing a 9 year old boy.





It's Bush's fault!!!
 
"These threads have been great. You get to see some of the underbelly of the big time guide services! Wow - there is so much insinuation and conjecture and posturing and conspiracy - and drama..."

DITTO

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I DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL,.... MOSSBACK DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL,.... AND NO, BRITTON DIDN'T OWN THAT BULL.

Let me know sremim if I can explain anything else to you.

If you havent seen the 9yrs old attacked, then you missed them before they were taken off. It takes a big man to go after a 9 year old.
 
Jesse, I hope your son stays strong and keeps his passion for hunting, just keep him away from sites like this where people will attack and demean any and all who dare have a different style of hunting than theirs. I hope my two year old can be as GROWN-UP as your boy when he is 9. Good luck on your hunts coming up.

PRO
 
RE: Putting the gas back on!!

as a side note...

"Number of posts" is how you dole out credibility? Nice system. Most entries by guys with a couple thousand posts are snippy, little name-calling messages by wannabe comedians who can't spell.

Some of the best quality posts are from guys (not me) who chime in once a month, rather than four times a day. I have news for you--earning frequent flyer miles by bickering back and forth online with other sarcastic know-it-alls is not a great system for deciding whose posts are, or aren't, credible.
 
Jesse,
I think that is awesome that your son glassed up this bull twice. It is great when a father and son can be a part of finding, following and harvesting some of the biggest elk each year. Hats of to you! Alot of people are just jealous about what you get to do. Hats off to Doyle and all that he has made possible for the Mossback Team. Great bunch of guys doing what they love and doing it good. Jcmuleys
 
Hey Drum, does this sort of crap happen down in Mexico? Please don't get the shirts, I was hoping to get out of the country to avoid them. ; )
 
Jesse, I'm sorry if some folks bashed your son....thats wrong.

I applaud you for having him in the field. This is going to sound bad, and I really don't mean too, I promise. Could you make sure he knows there is more about hunting than the money. You probably already do, and thats great. Obviously you have him at your side and FAMILY is a big part of what it is all about. Thats one reason I stuck up for Brook in another post though I don't know her or her family. This money thing really leaves a distaste in some of us "old timers" mouths.
 
BONE, THANK YOU!
AND JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS, MY SON STILL HAS NO CLUE THERE WAS MONEY INVOLVED. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE SUPRISE FOR HIM DOWN THE ROAD. MABEY TOWARDS A TRUCK, MISSION, COLLEGE SOMETHING LIKE THAT. HE JUST LOVES BEING THERE WITH ME.. THATS PAY ENOUGH FOR BOTH OF US...
 
Thanks for the post Jesse, I know if my son was thrown under the bus there there would be hell to pay.
 
I don't think you would make the cut either shotgunjim. You have to carry a C average GPA and spell Doyle correct twice in a post.
 
O.K. One thing I do have to say is ,"enough about the baby blue shirts ".Do you all think they hunted in those shirts ,NO ,when the bull was on the ground ,they put on white river outfitters ,baby blue shirts,and now evey one of you ,hate him or not ,knows M. Lane by his BABYBLUE shirts,hell of an advertisement scheme.25% of the post on this awesome bull is about the shirts .some insight on where this post has gone .More of you are concerned with teeshirts than a 400+ bull harvested in JULY.I really dont care who harvested the bull ,It goes to show what kind of year we are looking at as far as antler growth on deer and elk .I cant wait to see what comes out of this season ,from mossback ,white river,bull ridge ,purplesage ,western wildlife ,leader guide service,mogollon rim ,tnt .They all have the potential to break records this year.I cant wait to see what is harvested.Good luck to all and Good hunting.
 
fldrw22 that was just our way of poking fun at this whole fiasco. I know you did not hunt in them, if anybody here did then they need to do us all a favor and fall on their own sword.

We are all on the same team!
 
Elkahol,
Just wanted to say congrats to you and your boy!! That's an awesome time spent together doing what you both love to do!! And it's awesome to hear! And I apologize for any bashing you, and your son may have recieved, that is total BS, and they should be ashamed of themselves!!
I'm now a non-resy for Utah, but I have 12 points for elk, how about you and your son find one for me??? Is he for hire yet? J/K

I have two daughters, one 8 and the other 6 we spend alot of time together glassing and looking for animals for "Daddy" to hunt! I wouldn't trade any of that time together for any tag in the world!! They are my lil team of guides!!! Between myself and my wife, plus my 12, and 14 yr old boys that come up to Colorado to hunt with us, my girls have their work cut out for them!! That's alot of animals they need to find for all of us!! And yes, I'm counting on them!!! :)

Anybody out there in MM world should totaly respect time spent in the field when it comes to kids and their parents, irregaurdless of their own personal oppinions of how and for what purpose that time was spent!!!

Good luck everyone!!!

Work to hunt!! Live to hunt!! And the rest spent keeping the wife happy!!
 
Nothing beats having your kid in the hills with you. I took my 7 yr. old out last weekend on the Fish Lake. We got into a herd of about 70 cows and spotted calves with a few spikers mixed in. They were so noisy. We found a great spot next to a log fence and watched as they fed right to us. They ended up crossing the fence 3 feet from us. Everything was going great til my boy broke wind. Then he couldn't stop laughing about it. To top things off a badger came down the trail and was within five feet of us before he turned around and left. I think I did more than break wind. I was nervous. To top it off my kid told me it was the best day of his life so far. I think it was mine too. Funny how that works. Some of my buddies dont take their kids because they slow them down and are alot of work. I think boy are they missing out.

Nobody puts more time and effort into their kids than elkahol. I don't know how he does it all. How many kids do you know that can glass a age nine and be an allstar in everything they do? My hats off to you old friend.
 
Clue me in on the "money thing". This is the United States of America. If someone's chosen profession is that of a hunting guide what is the problem. That is their livleihood, how they feed their family and pay their bills. There is not a hunting guide on earth that could be called rich. Atleast none that I know of. Very few can even make it their sole occupation and those that do better be dam good at it. Sure they are going to do what it takes to further their career's. Don't we all? Sure they will jump at the opportunity to make some extra cash. Don't you? Some say, "they are pimping our wildlife". It seems that the only ones accused of this are the one's who are good at what they do.
Some say the people killing these animals are not hunters. Your probalby right. They hire a guide for the same reason's you hire a plumber, electrician, mechanic, etc. Your not one. So what? They have that luxury. Many of us fix our own leaks, replace our own fuses, change our own fuel pumps and scout and kill our own elk. Some don't. Again so what? Some say,"what has this become? Its a rich mans sport". Thats about my sentiments when I shop the truck dealer ships, pick my broke down truck up from the mechanic or pay $80 to fill the dam thing up. The price on everything keeps growing. Some pay it some can't or won't. Hunting tags and guide fees are no different.
No one seems to notice the thousands of turkeys, hundreds of wild sheep tranplanted, acres of deer and elk winter range improved with the money from tags like these. Money that can't be found and won't be funded from else where. Argue and complain all you want the money is helping wildlife for me you and our children.
As for the people that work with and for these guides few if any are there for the fame or fortune. Its their love of being in the hills whatching some of the biggest and the best bucks, bulls, and sheep in the world every year that puts them there. If they can make a little money to offset the costs of gas, missed work, vehicle wear and maybe some how keep a wife happy thats icing on the cake.
All in all in the end you believe your right and I'm wrong and vise versa. Opinions are hard to change. Atleast we live in a country where we are allowed to have them.
 
Very well put Nunya, I have seen the benefits of the money raised from the conservation tag program. We all need to keep our focus on what is important. The future of wildlife and keeping our youth in the hills with us and off the streets.

Layne T.
 
Now Prout you (and maybe me)need to learn from Nunya. That is how you get your point across without telling everyone how awesome you are and how incompetant they are. Nunya that was a work of art, and one of the best posts that I have ever read on this site. Even though I don't think we need so many auction tags (Utah), I can respect your opinion because of the way you approached the situation. I had never thought about the analogy of hiring someone to plumb the house or fix my truck with hunting, but I see the similarities now, thanks.

Now that I've finished kissing Nunya's A**, good luck to everyone on their hunts this year, just post some picturs of you successes.
 
NoMoss, I am guessing from your post you have never been involved in one of these type of hunts. Many of them are willing/able to hunt as hard as you. I suppose making them seem like inept hunters makes you feel better about not being able to do what they do. Get over it.

As for where/how/when the money from these tags is spent, in Utah it is a State law clearly defined and watched by many groups/indivuals to ensure the wildlife get the funds. Go to the Utah DWR website and look up conservation tag projects, it's all there for all to see and read.

As for rutnelk, still waiting for you to back up your accusations about me. How long do you need to find the supposedly rampant hypocricies from me? I will be headinf for the hills in a week or so, can you come up with something before then? I hate to worry about it while I am out guiding conservation tag holders onto monster bulls.

PRO
 
According to you I can make any statement, true or not, as long as the statements are directed to Prout not Bart. I can defame and slander Prout but not the real you. As far as proof, I talked with the guy that you made your minimal posts statement to and he remembered it the same as I did. But I can't go back to the UDWR forum to dig up proof because the thread was removed. How covenient. Oh well, I've spent enough time talking to your arrogant butt so I think I'll move on to something else.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-07 AT 01:18PM (MST)[p]Nunya-- I tend to see your train of thought going down the wrong road. In my opinion, we can't compare buying a new truck to wildlife. Why? Because if a guy chooses to buy a new truck he is taking his money and spending it with a private company. The government (all of us) is selling something that every citizen of the state owns. As such, the limited resources (elk, deer, sheep) are desired by those who own them and allowing the money to jump people to the head of the line is where the problem comes in. There have to be rules in the distribution of the tags and one rule is to bypass the line. That is where the money comes into play.

Can you really compare a guide to an outfitter? There are more than a few outfitters, in Utah alone, which make a handsome paycheck. How can they make it? Through the conservation tag system and CWMU program, they get a guaranteed amount of tags every year to guide return clients. How many bulls has one man killed off the famous units? Another man has killed how many smoker animals? Another family has had a stronghold on many exceptional tags for how many years? Lets face it, the big money players are limited in number. The ones who will actually pay a baby-sitter for weeks to sit on an animal. The ones who will pay a $10,000 finders fee. Those guys aren't around every block. They are the ones who have made some outfitters big names. They finance a system which pressures the animals much more than the average guiding system.

I doubt there are many guides sitting animals in July in Wyoming, Alaska, or Montana. Those guides know the land, scout a bit, and hunt with their hunters. There are a lot of great guides here in the West. I have many friends who guide and I have even guided a few hunters myself. It is the high profile cases such as the Arizona bull, Nevada bull, etc that are giving the guiding industry the bad rap.

Your opinion is from one side of the fence. I can respect that, but I don't agree with it. Just remember, it isn't about the guide. It is about the manner in which the hunter was guided. Aircraft, hazing, numerous spotters, finders fees, baby-sitting, yearly hunts, etc.

Best of Luck to You this Season.
 
Wildlife should not be seen in terms of dollars. That is exactly how most guides see them. A 400" bull =$$$$$$. Do you see any fishing guides getting conservation tags, or early/late. or extended seasons?
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-07 AT 01:31PM (MST)[p]Nice try rutnelk, BYE BYE!

PRO
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-07 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]I say keep the money coming in from Gov. tags and for those that think guides use alot of people looking for animals for clients and this is cheating go take a look around some of the better elk units in Utah.I would say the average joe hunter that draws a tag brings twice as many family members and buds to help out.Its his or her choice.I will be accepting applications for guys who want to help out on my hunt this year.Bring good optics and bring horses is all I ask I will supply the elk steaks after the kill and a rip roaring fire with many lies told and wont forget the beverages after the hunt.he he
Call 1-800-SPOTABULL.
 
Conservtion tag funds do not provide more than a very minor benfit to wildlife in the west. Wildfires, drought, harsh winters, increased human population and development, and permit numbers are some of the major influences. To ask a conservation tag guide/outfitter about the benefit conservation tag $$ provides to wildlife is akin to asking an illegal immigrant about immigration. Yes, they are going to be biased. Outfitting and guiding is a ligitimate business. I can not find fault in defending ones livelyhood, but I do not agree with the claims that conservation permit $$ is the cause of any great success in improving big game numbers. Yes there may be more turkeys and there may be a 200 more big horn sheep, minus the ones harvested by lions this winter, but Utah general deer southern regions have shortened hunt dates and permits are still reduced by 1,000 in the central region because buck to doe ratio's are under or barely at state mandate. How much affect has conservation tag $$ had on mule deer?? LE elk units are thriving because they are Limited Entry! Neighboring states without near the conservation tag $$ are doing fine...Why? How? The general public had little if any say on conservation tag allocations, and alot are still not aware of it. Sure, everyone wants to assist wildlife and ensure the hunting sports are protected through conservation, but using this conservation tag $$ angle as the major means to accomplish conservation is misleading. If conservation is so important to wealthy hunters, let them donate funds without expecting to hunt extended dates and areas. Buy the largest house, private jet, whatever. If you can do that, great! You have the money and it is your personal property. Wild big game animals, however are not personal property. They belong to all regardless of financial status. To exempt someone from waiting periods or extend hunting dates because they paid more is not right. Conservation tag $$ is benefiting the tag purchaser and the retained outfitters/guides more than any benefit to the general public.
 
Monte ,where do I send my app.,I only drew one tag this year and it was a bowhunt in JULY.I am done for the year exccept helping out freinds .Let me know and I am there .Tom
 
War,
I have a huge 440 elk spotted for you. It is in a subdivision and eats/sleeps/and drinks 100 yards from the nearest house. You can easily "stalk" it while the residents who own it happily feed it out of their hands. Then, as soon as they turn their back, you can shoot it. Also, even though the residents own this bull because it hangs out near the houses, I will be claiming it as mine, since I'm the one who found it for you. But if you kill it without me telling you its OK, then I will come on MM and flame you as a backstabbing bastard who only wants to shoot elk, and not hunt them! My finders fee is $20,000 payable monthly. If you are interested, please call me at 1-800-FOUNDABULL and I will show you pictures. Thanks!




It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Tom,
Sent you a P.M. and thanks for the offer I was only joking around about needing more help but just might take you up on your offer.
Again thanks I will keep in contact but thats a long ways to drive for you to help on my hunt.
Monte
 
Sremim,
Hey dont send me a photo of the 440 bull just the house the bull lives by and please dont tell me the house is painted baby blue.
That is funny but you know I dont want a big bull see what it causes.
 
shotgunjim,
Is it illegal to have a guide service and hire employees to scout elk?
I am talking about all guide services and also people that draw these tags and not use a guide service, you can have as many people as you like help you out with scouting or hunting, do I stand correct?
Have you ever helped any family members out on a hunt and told them the exact location you have seen or spotted a nice animal and went after it?
If a family member or good freind with a permit was not a resident but had a tag I would do the same thing for them whats wrong with that?
My question to you is what is wrong with making a living doing what these guides do?
If everything is legal and fair chase everything should be ok.
As far as putting guys on large animals and most guides are good at it and they put countless hours into scouting,that is the business part of it some are very good at what they do and that is the bottom line.
Guided hunts are why people pay big money so they can show up and hunt and dont have time to scout a unit or hunt alone.
I myself like to hunt without a guide but those that do will keep flying in once they get the phone call thats just part of what they do and they can its not illegal.
 

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