Rem Express Core-lokt Ammo, RIP

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sageadvice

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I posted this comment in reply to a question on the Elk page about what is good cheap 180gr 30-06 ammo. I also have been hearing lots of talk about how good these bullets are. I pulled this info directly from Remington's own website. I believe that those who are using factory Remington Express ammo need to know this below info, so posted it here as well.


"I too used to shoot core-Lokt ammo until some of the newer factory available loadings blew them out of the water. Remington factory 180 grain Core-Lokts have a Ballistic Coefficient (b.c.) of only .248 When compared to others like a swift sirocco, another Rem. factory loading but there are many other bullets with high b.c's, that has a b.c. of .500, the Core-lokts fly like an egg.

This B.C. figure represents way more than pure numbers. Both below are 30-06 Remington Factory available loadings.

feet /per/ sec. .. B.C. .. Muzzle .. 300yds .. 500yds
180 gr core-lokt . .248 .. 2700 .... 1727 .. 1251
180 gr swift sir.... .500 .. 2700 .... 2032 .. 1648

Notice the difference in bullet speed at 300 & 500yds when both bullets left the barrel at the same speed. THAT'S the difference in Ballistic Coefficient talking! Higher BC's, the better they fly. Now below i'll show what happens to the bullets retained energy when different b.c.'s come into play.

foot/pounds/energy .. muzzle .. 300yds .. 500yds
180 Core-lokt ............ 2913 ... 1192 .... 625
180 swift Sir. ............ 2913 ... 1910 .... 1409

Again, both left the barrel with the same Energy, look what happens down range. I'm using Swift as an example only, there are others like those mentioned in the above posts that have high b.c.'s, great pills!

The same can be said of the .270 Winchester 150 gr Express Core-lokt loading. It's numbers are just as bad. Flys like an egg and drops like a rock after 300 yds!

I know there are going to be people saying how they killed animals for years with this Express Core-Lokt ammo. I have too!
I'm a major Remington Fan. It pains me to say, Core-Loke factory ammo and Core-lokt bullets have had their day, might still have their place, but IMO, not on a big game hunt when a long range shot may come into play. There's way better stuff out there. Pay the price for better stuff or load your own. Use good bullets or really pay attention to your yardage and shot placement, preferably both."

Joey
 
They're crap in my opinion. I'd use them on elk over a ballistic tip or an SST but that's about it.
 
I quit using Rem. Core-lokts over 25 years ago. They open up and fragment on very light bone and distroy too much meat on deer. They will not stay together and punch in too the vitals of a big game animal like elk and as stated above they are really only good to 200 yards.
I saw too many failures on CA. blacktail deer where a shoulder shot was used. bullet failed to bust the other shoulder and blew off the shoulder that was hit.

If I want to use a fast expanding bullet, I prefer the Sierra Game king hands down over the Core-Lokt.

RELH
 
They are relatively inexpensive and they will kill but there is a price to pay in lost meat. And I hate dealing with all the blood shot meat!

Eel
 
It is cheap ammo at Wally World and that is what I used in my new Savage 25.06 earlier this summer. After the initial clean and shoot but before I started to dial it in this is what is used. Then I switched to Federal Prem Accubond but only had to shoot about 1/2 box if that before I had it where I wanted it to hit.

Brian
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-08 AT 04:02PM (MST)[p]All valid points!

The main reason for this post was not to discredit Core-lokt's or Remington Ammo, again i'm a big time Remington Fan!, but to make aware those that rely on this ammo to harvest big game at distances near 300 yds or more. Up to a range similar to that, they work. After that, they just don't carry the downrange energy a guy might be thinking it should have and might cause a hunter to take a shot similar to the guy who wrote a check that his bank wouldn't cash. You would/could do better with a smaller cartridge and a better bullet.

I have no idea, other than it's blindly popular and usually cheap, why Remington continues to sell this line of ammo. It is simply and plainly, way past it's time to retire this line in favor of ammo that is somewhat comparable to what the other major manufacturers are producing.

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-08 AT 08:39PM (MST)[p]30 years or so of this bullet killing stuff, and YOU want Remington to retire the Core-Lokt. Good luck with that. Unbelievable. mtmuley This reply is in no way intended to offend any specific members of this forum.
 
Are we talking about the original core-lokts that have been around since dirt, taken tons of game, and still cost about 16 cents a piece???
 
>That would be them, and they're
>not worth 2 cents a
>piece.
>
>
2 Cents each! I'll take all you got. Yotes don't know how much I paid for them.
 
Guys, i'm only talking about taking them hunting when a long range shot at a big game animal might come into play. Now that we all have rangefinders and are practicing and taking game at farther distance, these bullets with a B.C. in the 2's got to be the worst flying bullet out there. They just don't carry their energy.

You spend 500-$2000 on a gun, 300-$1200 on a scope, Tags, license moneys, fuel...invest a bit more in your bullet and know that you are getting close to all you can out of the particular cartridge you're shooting.

Those who want them for targets , varments, or close in work slightly bigger stuff, fine. But don't buy this ammo thinking you can shoot an Elk or big Muley buck across the canyon at 400, 500yds or more. Accubond, Interlokt, trip shok, partition, swift, and many others are much better suited for that one time you been practicing for, when you might need to stretch your barrel some and cleanly take that big boy way over yonder.

Joey
 
We have taken many elk and deer each year with this bullet in 300 WSM, 300 Win, 270 Win, etc. Most of our shots are 300 to 450 yards with no problems. Most of these bullets are found on the far side shoulder after going through both shoulders. One thing that we do not find with this bullet is fragmantation, we find mushrooms. It seems the triple shoks, trophy bondeds and fail safes we used to shoot made small holes and big tracking jobs. We have one guy that shoots this bullet in a 300 Weatherbee with great success. Will let you know how this season goes.........we have no complaints with this bullet. BTW, this bullet will cloverleaf at 100 yards with both of my guns. The accubonds, triple shoks and partitions are all about 1 1/2" group. I will stick with cloverleafs.

Good luck to all this year!!!!
 
Elkslayer, i can certainly understand wanting the best possible accuracy for your firearms and i'm glad that you have had good luck so far hunting with this loading. I am somewhat concerned though if you are taking Elk at 450 yds with express .270Win ammo.

Remingtons ballistic table lists only 639 ft lb. of retained energy at 500yds for the 150gr Core-lokt loading. As you may know, long time experts have established a rough baseline of 1000 FPE of retained energy at impact to take animals such as deer. I would believe for a mature Bull Elk, it would be considerably more than that. You have had good luck, might i suggest, SO FAR.

As far as the 300 WSM and WinMag they too are very much brought down, only slightly more that the 1000 FPE, in what they are capable of doing by the poor BC of the Express loadings. In both cases the factory loadings are considerably below what a decent bullet loading in a 30-06 gets both in energy and bullet drop at 500yds. If you choose to shoot a magnum to get 06 or worse performance, certainly, that's up to you.

Good luck on your hunts!
Joey
 
I'm not sure where you are getting your info. The MidwayUSA site lists the BC of a 180 grain core lokt as 4.25.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct'saleitemid=450637

This puts the trajectory within an inch or two of a boattail out to 400 yards. This bullet would not be my first choice for a higher velocity round, and certainly scirrocos and partitions are preferable (Scirrocos are by far my favorite). Still, I've and 06 that tells me it likes corelokts over the more expensive bullets, so I don't have a problem using them on elk at 2700 fps and reasonable ranges. Just choose your shots with a little care.


Of the cup and pour type bullets, I've read that the solid base bullets are a little stouter than the boat tails. Having shot plenty of deer and a few elk with core lokts and lots of deer with Sierra boat tails, I've seen the core lokts hold up better. I've yet to try the solid base Sierras.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-08 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-08 AT 09:16?AM (MST)

Pre64, i'm glad you brought that up and i'll use this time to hopefully clear up possible confusion. Remington has probably been aware of the lack of performance from their old Core-lokt design. They have come out with at least two new core-lokt products with upgraded engineering & design. The link to the bullet that you posted is one of the New products. What this post was intended to do was make aware that Remington still uses it's "old" bullet, B.C.'s in the .2's, in much of it's "express" factory loaded ammo.

http://www.remington.com/products/a...mparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30064

In the link above you will see 3 different 30-o6 factory loadings with 3 different 180 gr core-lokt bullets. Check out the BC's on the bullets. Unfortunetly, when you go to Walmart, the unknowing buyer is going to be offered the only 180 grain loading on the shelf, the old one, and that is what and why of this post. Intended to inform.

edit; i couldn't get the link to show all three bullets . once on the site you can check them out. Gotta run!

Joey
 
Pre 64, Fine line between retaining weight for penetration and long range qualities like opening up on inpact. I ain't got it all figured out...yet. Probably never will. Anyway, im still shopping for a good bullet to maybe next year replace what i been shooting. Thinking of going with a 140 gr accubond in my 270 WSM if i can get them to shoot, maybe the barns... Federal makes pretty good loads w/ these bullets.

Anyway getting back to the core-lokt, i changed the link above and below is a link to the only 150 grain loading Remington has for the good ol 270 Win. Look at the B.C. , long range energy, and bullet drop at distance.

http://www.remington.com/products/a...mparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R270W4

You want to buy a box of 150 grainers? If Remington, that's all they sell. Many guys out there probably have no idea just how bad these shells are.

Joey
 
Actually, the difference between bullets in terms of weight retention vs. expansion is dramatic. IMO more important than weight. For example, the 140 grain A-frames they offer are as stout a bullet you can buy short of a solid. I shot an elk with 150 grain A-frames and was not wholly satisfied. They performed perfectly (weighed 149 grains on recover) but the expansion was not what I like. Now I use 130 grain scirrocos. So far I've shot one cow with the scirroco and bullet performed perfectly (nice half dollar size holes through lungs). I really like the bonded bullets for a combination of expansion and weight retention. Technology is a wonderful thing.

If I were to load another elk round for my .270 I'd go with 150 grain partitions as they only offer scirrocos in 130 grain. 140 grain ABs are another choice but I don't think they are as stout as scirrocos.

If memory serves, the 150 grain bullets you mention are round nose core lokts (and I doubt they make the 2850 fps mark as advertised). They are not the cream of the crop. But, then again, they are only ten bucks a box vs. 140 grain A-frames that run something like fifty a box. They will both kill elk, but I wouldn't put a core-lokt in a shoulder.
 
Good stuff Pre64, I been shooting Remington factory premium's 150gr. believed to have the hornady SST bullet. The jury is still out cause the last 4 animals i took were with my .280 AI, different pill, and am getting mixed reviews from those who say they have used them. One heck of a load ballistically, really carry the energy downrange but if they are going to come apart on the first bone, can't use them... Waiting to hear more current reports and looking around a bit at the same time...

So, i'm guessing you get my point? In some cases, like the .270, if the store sells Remington, that's all that they come in. Who would have thought that a decent bulleted .243 round has far more energy left at 500yds than a green boxed 150gr .270 winchester?? Not me, i'll tell you that and so...

Good hunting!!
Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-08 AT 08:15PM (MST)[p]Maybe it is the sorry state of the economy of late, but it seems ammo loaded with the Core-Lokt bullet is selling rather briskly here in Western Montana. At least as far as I can discern from the gun and sporting goods shops I frequent. Lotsa critters will hit the ground. Good bullets never go away. mtmuley On a whim I checked Joey's numbers. He is comparing the Core-Lokt Round Nose with the Scirroco. The Pointed Softpoint numbers are different. Out to 300 yards.....?
 
As usual, you only read what you want to read, AGAIN!

As i said in my two above paragraphs, In the case of the green boxed Express .270 Win, 150 grain loading, THAT"S ALL THEY OFFER, THEY DON'T MAKE ANYTHING ELSE! Good bullet my behind! They are dinasours, fly like an egg, past their day. mtmuley likes em though so...
 
I guess I must apologize. I did not look at any of Remingtons offering in the .270 caliber. If they suck as a .270 150 gr bullet, all calibers and weights must suck also. The numbers I saw in your first post were for 180 gr .30 cal bullets. Hence the confusion on my part. Carry on joey! mtmuley
 
jeezus, you two are like hdude and 202! but thanx for the entertainment.

Joey, with your interest in ballistics and bullets, you should start to roll ur own, you dont reload if i remember right?
 
REDDOG, Seems there's always one to spoil the party and for me mtmuley does it every time. He dosen't believe me and i don't like him. I try and ignore him and avoid his threads and topics but will comment when he attacks one of mine. People who know little or some, yet think or act like they know everything, have always annoyed me.

As far as reloading goes, i still do. Started back in 77 when i bought a .257 Weatherby. As you know, those shells are pretty costly so i dove in with both feet, got pretty familiar with reloading then and have continued to this day where i just worked up some standby extras for my .280 ackley Imp. I'm no pro but have a couple friends who are well known in the shooting world, if not the hunting as well, who gladly will advise when i get stumped or need help.

After killing several animals with the .280AI, i wanted to this year hunt with my .270 WSM. So far, even though i have the dies, i've yet to reload for it. that's probably where you got the idea that i don't reload. I do, just not all the time, for every gun.

As a kid, when i got a copy of the shooters bible or some such, i'd head straight to the back of the book and spend hours checking out the ballistic tables. I grew up in long range Blacktail deer country, graduated to the same kinda country but for trophy muley's. My very own first gun was a 1969 Rem 700 25-06 and have at least half a dozen nice guns any of which, could go hunting muleys on a moments notice.

So from some of my guns mentioned, the kind of shooting i like to do, it's easy to understand, i think, why i search out the ballistic tables. There's a story to seek and learn in those pages. I like flat shooting, hard hitting, big enough to do the job, yet not too big to shoot a lot and to shoot often without developing a flinch.

Happy hunting,
Joey
 
sage, I do not know everything, nor do I profess to. If you live a day without learning, you didn't stay awake long enough. ( A guy I worked for said that) I will take this opportunity to apologize to you about any previous altercations. Yep, I know I was an ass. I provoked you on purpose and it was wrong. My fault. I admit it. There. Nuff said. I gotta get up real early. mtmuley
 
Kinda ironic. Two bulls down today in our party of four. One small six point killed with a Core-Lokt. The other five point with a Winchester XP3. mtmuley
 
Interesting post sage. Funny thing is I have been shooting 150 grain Core-Lokt's (PSP's) out of my .30-06 for the past few years. Since 2003, I've killed 5 big game animals with my 06 using a total of 6 bullets. They have been very effective for me. I have mostly bowhunted in the past, but am getting a little more serious about rifle shooting/hunting. Within the past month, I have been on the Remington site looking at and comparaing ballistics. Needless to say, after comparing bullets, I had already decided to try the Scirocco's for next year.
 
Legacy, If you look at the last part of my opening statement you'll see where i'm a big Remington fan and have also used Core-lokt bullets for many years. Nothing here said that they won't kill big game animals, they will, i mentioned that earlier as well.

It's just a question if you choose to shoot a bullet that is not going to fly as well as some of the newer, better designed bullets out there. In the case of the 150gr .270 Win, there are WAY better loads to shoot. Still, they will kill if your animal is at close range or you make a very clean shot.

Myself, i want to get near the most out of the gun i'm hunting with. It makes no sense to me to shoot thru a .300 Win mag, a round nose 180 bullet that has less downrange energy than a decent bullet from a 30-06, 300 savage,... or even smaller cartridge.

Joey
 
.257 Roberts, 117 grain, soft point round, nose core-lokt bullet. This is the one and only factory load Remington sells/offers!

http://www.remington.com/products/a...comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R257

The Roberts is a fine pick for those that want a lighter kicking, pleasent to shoot, gun for varments up to and including Mule deer. This Remington factory loading though, IMO, should be avoided. Look at the downrange energies. Terrible! When hand loaded or thru other manufactures factory wares with decent bullets, the Roberts approaches the ballistics of a 25-06. This loading above, not even close!

Joey
 
Sage, I'm a big Remington fan as well. I agree, the Core-Lokt's WILL get the job done and like I said...have done well for me in the past. Since I am shooting factory ammo, I want to get the most out of my bullet performance. This is why I will try something new for next year.....even though I plan on bowhunting! :) Since we're on the topic of ballistics, what's your opinion on the 7mm RUM?
 
Legacy, I'm probably not the guy if you're looking for a great endorsement for the 7mm RUM. I believe the word "overbored" was invented to describe cartridges that used way more powder than needed to get an efficient yet effective loading. The 7mm RUM, IMO, is way overbored.

My choice of a perfect 7mm magnum would be a .280 Ackley Improved. With 60. grs of IMR 4350, i'm getting a super accurate 3200+ fps with 140gr pills out of my 25" semi-custom rifle.

Yes, the RUM offers higher FPS velosities but look a the difference in the cases, the way higher volume of powder needed to achieve the added velosities, and the resulting noise, muzz blast, and kick, dished out.

To each their own in picking their guns. I'm just not willing to subject my ears and body to the RUM's for the advantages that you get over a proportionally designed, smaller, efficient case.

Joey
 
Good information! To tell you the truth, I have no reason to give up my .30-06 at this point. It is a Savage that my dad bought for me when I turned 14 (17 years ago). Since then, I have added a synthetic stock and VX-III 4.5 x 14. I'm sure there's much better out there, but it is one good shooting gun! I also have a 700 BDL in a .270 WIN that I have yet to hunt with. I just bought an XCR stock for it and topped with a Leupold as well. I'm looking forward to messing around with it too.
 
I can see where someone just buying the cheap ammo might buy the round nose core-lokt. In the Remington ballistic tables they also list the 180 grn pointed soft point, which compares a little better against the premium bullet mentioned. Isn't that a more fair comparison, than a pointed bullet against a round nose?
 
two8E, welcome to the site. Lots of great stuff to be learned here. There really is some awesome guys with tons of knowledge in these pages.

As for your question. The reason for this thread was to point out exactly what you first mentioned. Some guy might walk into his supermart store and ask for a box of 150 gr loads for his .270. THAT"S ALL THEY SELL IS ROUND NOSE in Remington and that grain loading. Same for the .257 Roberts, could be others, "OR" that might be all that is left on the shelf in other cartridges where there actually is a choice. These older round nose, Remington calls them "soft point" loads are, IMO, to be avoided if possible.

As far as comparing the ballistics of Core-lokt "Pointed soft points" to "Soft Points", i covered that briefly above but that's another topic entirely and i'm sorry if i didn't make that plain as was my intentions in the beginning of this, supposed to be, informational thread.

Joey
 
ANOTHER bull down yesterday. Mine this time with an E-Tip. sage, you kill a bull yet? c'mon boy. You must have by now. Especially with all your bullet knowledge. mtmuley
 
Thanks for helping to really show others what i see and have seen in you. As usual, you hijacked this thread to make yourself look important and above others. These last half dozen posts of yours are plain to read. A first class A-Ho with a mental problem!!
 
I try to make myself look important. Hmmmmmm. Interesting comment sagebush. Especially coming from you. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-08 AT 10:58PM (MST)[p]I'd like to add my comments. Now I don't profess to know half as much about firearms, bullets, calibers, balistics, etc. as any of you, but I do know that for years (and still), the core-lokt has reliably killed game of all sizes. I know there are much better bullets available, and you'd be silly not to use them, but I've posted some pics and related info below, that pretty much argue my case for my being in favor of the core-lokt. Again, not my first choice, but I'd shoot them before Rem. bronze points and Nosler Ballistic Tips. To me, the proof is in the results.

2006, Remington reduced recoil w/125 gr core-lokt, 1 shot at 140 yds. Shot was through left shoulder, bullet lodged under hide behind right front shoulder, great mushroom.
DSCN1603.jpg


2007, Remington Express w/165 gr core-lokt, 1 shot at 118 yds. Broke facing shoulder and spine, did not recover bullet.
DSCN1870.jpg


2008, Remington Express w/165 gr core-lokt, 2 shots first at 80 yds, and second at 130 yds. First shot was behind right last rib, bullet lodged under hide in left front chest, great mushroom.
DSCN2105.jpg


That's some pretty good performance on some nice animals. I won't hesitate to let my son shoot these bullets again.
 
Nice pics. I'll say it again, they do just fine at standard velocities. They perform as they are designed to.
 

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