BaldBeaver
Active Member
- Messages
- 264
What is the state doing right with our deer herds, and what are they doing wrong? What would you do different if you could do anything?
~BaldBeaver
~BaldBeaver
Right and wrong?
- Thread starter BaldBeaver
- Start date
i'm no biologist, don't have a degree in *hit, just your average joe that likes to hunt and spend time in the outdoors. Don't keep up with all the news like i should.
Right: I think tag allocations numbers are good, basicly i think they are doing most things right. Like the bonus point system. Like the long seasons. Really don't have alot to complain about
Wrong: Too many horses in some units, but understand that sometimes their hands are tied by the bleeding hearts that think wild horses belong in great numbers here.
Predators, should be a bounty on coyotes.
Landowner tags being able to hunt the entire unit, they should be held to hunting within a certain distance of the owners property...to me that is the biggest #####. If a landowner has enough animals to warrent a tag then what good does it do him if the tag holder kills an animal 35 miles or more away? Doesn't jive!!
Right: I think tag allocations numbers are good, basicly i think they are doing most things right. Like the bonus point system. Like the long seasons. Really don't have alot to complain about
Wrong: Too many horses in some units, but understand that sometimes their hands are tied by the bleeding hearts that think wild horses belong in great numbers here.
Predators, should be a bounty on coyotes.
Landowner tags being able to hunt the entire unit, they should be held to hunting within a certain distance of the owners property...to me that is the biggest #####. If a landowner has enough animals to warrent a tag then what good does it do him if the tag holder kills an animal 35 miles or more away? Doesn't jive!!
O
onthewall
Guest
Right:They are doing some very good habitat restoration projects
They are doing some very good predator control projects.
Wrong: Not enough predator control and habitat restoration.I know funding plays a lot into what amount gets done, but so does politics, whaaay to much politics.Doe hunts for the sake of a study. Doe hunts period.
They are doing some very good predator control projects.
Wrong: Not enough predator control and habitat restoration.I know funding plays a lot into what amount gets done, but so does politics, whaaay to much politics.Doe hunts for the sake of a study. Doe hunts period.
N
NVRACKS49
Guest
Good evaluation
N
NVRACKS49
Guest
I have no complaints with NDOW. The horses are damn annoying but what can you do. Nevada holds good hunting in practically every unit. Numbers might not be high in some, but good quality compared to other states. Im glad to be a resident hunter in Nevada
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,078
A non-resident's perspective:
I think NDOW does as good a job as anyone managing their big game herds.
Their draw system is the fairest.
Nevada traditionally has kept big game hunting seasons out of the rut to maximize opportunity. I love some of the recent changes that goes against ths pattern.
I hunt NW Nevada for chukar 10-30 days a year. What I see with the wild horse thing is even when they removed 1,100 horses from the Twin Peaks area 2 years ago, the numbers have bumped back up. Before the roundup, I was seeing 75-100 a day. This is a 20 mile quad ride, each way and several hours of walking. The fall after the roundup, I was seeing 0-20 a day. This last winter I was seeing 20-60 a day. They can not reproduce that fast. My theory is that the habitat is good so they move in from other areas, and need another roundup.
The horses is a Federal issue and out of the NDOW's hands other than applying presure on BLM.
My only gripe is that I went to the NDOW website a year and a half ago and signed up as a volunteer. When you do that, you have to list what you're willing to do and what skills you have. I heard nothing the first year. I re-applied the next year and eventually got an e-mail saying the things I was interested in were done by non-profit wildlife organizations. But I wasn't provided with an contact information.
I would give Nevada an "A" in their wildlife management.
I think NDOW does as good a job as anyone managing their big game herds.
Their draw system is the fairest.
Nevada traditionally has kept big game hunting seasons out of the rut to maximize opportunity. I love some of the recent changes that goes against ths pattern.
I hunt NW Nevada for chukar 10-30 days a year. What I see with the wild horse thing is even when they removed 1,100 horses from the Twin Peaks area 2 years ago, the numbers have bumped back up. Before the roundup, I was seeing 75-100 a day. This is a 20 mile quad ride, each way and several hours of walking. The fall after the roundup, I was seeing 0-20 a day. This last winter I was seeing 20-60 a day. They can not reproduce that fast. My theory is that the habitat is good so they move in from other areas, and need another roundup.
The horses is a Federal issue and out of the NDOW's hands other than applying presure on BLM.
My only gripe is that I went to the NDOW website a year and a half ago and signed up as a volunteer. When you do that, you have to list what you're willing to do and what skills you have. I heard nothing the first year. I re-applied the next year and eventually got an e-mail saying the things I was interested in were done by non-profit wildlife organizations. But I wasn't provided with an contact information.
I would give Nevada an "A" in their wildlife management.
Overall they do a good job. My farorite state.
But if you focused on deer herds then the number one thing they have done wrong is take some of the best muley country and turned it into Elk country. I would put good muley habitat over elk since you can raise a cow in a pasture but a big muley is a lot harder.
But if you focused on deer herds then the number one thing they have done wrong is take some of the best muley country and turned it into Elk country. I would put good muley habitat over elk since you can raise a cow in a pasture but a big muley is a lot harder.
desertbonehunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 386
I agree that the land owner tags is a total scam. Devlin, you say some of the animals dont show up until after the season. Well how much damage are they actually doing to the property after the seasons when the fields are not even bein farmed. NONE. And these guys get to hunt deer that are 50 miles away, and half the deer they hunt will never even make it to the fields to begin with. I agree, they need to hunt within maybe a 5 mile radius of the cultivated fields. This program is supposed to be for damage the animals do to their business. How much hay are they getting in November when all the deer are actually there. Thats right, no hay...
sagebrush
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,584
In my opinion, NDOW does a great job. There are things I would like to see done better. I think the sportsmen of NV should band together and try to get something done about the wild horses. Don't settle for throwing your hands in the air and say its a federal issue. Make it a state versus federal government issue. The wild horse is a non-native invasive specie. How much of an uproar was caused by quagga mussels in federally regulated waters? I think something could be done about the horses but it will take pressure from a lot of people and a lot of hard work to make it happen. NDOW and volunteers have put a lot of money and hard labor into creating water sources for mule deer. I've seen horses stay on water for hours with mule deer staring down on them unwilling to come in. This was while scouting in July when the water was scarce. Horses gotta go. I also think more needs to be done on predators and more needs to be done on habitat restoration, especially replacing invasive plants with giant sagebrush and mountain mahogany.
Please don't bash NDOW. Those guys are working hard with what they have and doing a great job. Be a helping hand to give them more of what they need and let them know you appreciate what they do. Their work goes largely unrecognized and it amazes me how hard they continue to work when so many people tell them they don't know how to do their job.
Please don't bash NDOW. Those guys are working hard with what they have and doing a great job. Be a helping hand to give them more of what they need and let them know you appreciate what they do. Their work goes largely unrecognized and it amazes me how hard they continue to work when so many people tell them they don't know how to do their job.
>In my opinion, NDOW does a
>great job. There are things
>I would like to see
>done better. I think the
>sportsmen of NV should band
>together and try to get
>something done about the wild
>horses. Don't settle for throwing
>your hands in the air
>and say its a federal
>issue. Make it a state
>versus federal government issue. The
>wild horse is a non-native
>invasive specie. How much of
>an uproar was caused by
>quagga mussels in federally regulated
>waters? I think something could
>be done about the horses
>but it will take pressure
>from a lot of people
>and a lot of hard
>work to make it happen.
>NDOW and volunteers have put
>a lot of money and
>hard labor into creating water
>sources for mule deer. I've
>seen horses stay on water
>for hours with mule deer
>staring down on them unwilling
>to come in. This was
>while scouting in July when
>the water was scarce. Horses
>gotta go. I also think
>more needs to be done
>on predators and more needs
>to be done on habitat
>restoration, especially replacing invasive plants
>with giant sagebrush and mountain
>mahogany.
>
>Please don't bash NDOW. Those guys
>are working hard with what
>they have and doing a
>great job. Be a helping
>hand to give them more
>of what they need and
>let them know you appreciate
>what they do. Their work
>goes largely unrecognized and it
>amazes me how hard they
>continue to work when so
>many people tell them they
>don't know how to do
>their job.
I really, really, really agree with this right here!
>great job. There are things
>I would like to see
>done better. I think the
>sportsmen of NV should band
>together and try to get
>something done about the wild
>horses. Don't settle for throwing
>your hands in the air
>and say its a federal
>issue. Make it a state
>versus federal government issue. The
>wild horse is a non-native
>invasive specie. How much of
>an uproar was caused by
>quagga mussels in federally regulated
>waters? I think something could
>be done about the horses
>but it will take pressure
>from a lot of people
>and a lot of hard
>work to make it happen.
>NDOW and volunteers have put
>a lot of money and
>hard labor into creating water
>sources for mule deer. I've
>seen horses stay on water
>for hours with mule deer
>staring down on them unwilling
>to come in. This was
>while scouting in July when
>the water was scarce. Horses
>gotta go. I also think
>more needs to be done
>on predators and more needs
>to be done on habitat
>restoration, especially replacing invasive plants
>with giant sagebrush and mountain
>mahogany.
>
>Please don't bash NDOW. Those guys
>are working hard with what
>they have and doing a
>great job. Be a helping
>hand to give them more
>of what they need and
>let them know you appreciate
>what they do. Their work
>goes largely unrecognized and it
>amazes me how hard they
>continue to work when so
>many people tell them they
>don't know how to do
>their job.
I really, really, really agree with this right here!
I agree that NV does need to take a stand against so many wild horses. The point about them being an invasive species is right on.
If a landowner has the numbers to warrent LO tags AFTER the season then seems it should be a depredation hunt, not a LO tag that someone kills an animal 35+ miles away with. I do agree that even an animal in Nov or Dec will do some damage, but if thats the case then why isn't it a depredation tag like they do with elk in 231 around the farms? hunt within 5 miles of affected property. Also understand that sometimes those are animals that migrate to the property. Taking 1 or 10 animals out of that migration will NOT effect any damage to his property, if it does its on such a small scale that i dont think it could be measured. The LO tags are merely compensation tags.
There are alot of farmers (ranchers) that welcome deer and elk to come onto their land in order to get permits, and they do nothing to keep them off the property.
Im not against LO tags, just think they should be hunted different.
If a landowner has the numbers to warrent LO tags AFTER the season then seems it should be a depredation hunt, not a LO tag that someone kills an animal 35+ miles away with. I do agree that even an animal in Nov or Dec will do some damage, but if thats the case then why isn't it a depredation tag like they do with elk in 231 around the farms? hunt within 5 miles of affected property. Also understand that sometimes those are animals that migrate to the property. Taking 1 or 10 animals out of that migration will NOT effect any damage to his property, if it does its on such a small scale that i dont think it could be measured. The LO tags are merely compensation tags.
There are alot of farmers (ranchers) that welcome deer and elk to come onto their land in order to get permits, and they do nothing to keep them off the property.
Im not against LO tags, just think they should be hunted different.
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,078
I'll be the first to agree the horses need to be removed BUT it is unrealistic to believe that ALL horses will be removed, ever!! If you think that can happen, you're living in a fantasy world. We (Hunters) couldn't keep the tree huggers from "Introducing" wolves, how the he!! can we get a species removed that has been around for 600 years???
The tree huggers will out spend us 1000-1 on that one. They've already bought a zillion acre ranch as a "refuge" for the horses.
And the BLM is doing a good job, in my opinion, against public opposition. Every time there is a round up, the tree huggers show up with video equipment and film. On the first day of last year's round up, some horse broke a leg, running from the helicopter and it was all over the news, swaying public opinion in their favor. The BLM continued the round up.
In a lot of instances I believe we could "band" together and make positive changes but in this one area I think we need to give positive reinforcement to BLM and maybe nudge them to increase their efforts. But for the most part they are already fighting this battle for us.
My understanding is that they have to release all of the horses they gather that are over 4 years old anyways. Everytime I hear about a gather, I hear statistics like, they captured 2,750 horses and removed 1,100. You can't even take an old, broke down domestic horse to the auction yard for chicken feed anymore. A Federal law prohibits that now, they have to be shipped to Mexico or Canada before they can be butchered. How's that for a feel good law? Instead of having them butchered here (USA), we eliminated an industry and the horses get packed into rail cars and shipped to another country, butchered and ground into chicken feed and sent back here at a higher cost. We put people out of work and pay more for a lesser product, stupid!!!
You ain't gonna win any battle on that one.
Here's what we are talking about:
NOT THIS
OR THIS
THIS IS A MUSTANG, MINE. Hope you can see the freeze brand on the left side of his neck. It's the white mark below his left ear, on his neck.
And here's another of him. His mane is over the freeze brand.
My vet has the contract at the local BLM corrals and know alot about mustangs. Last year he shaved the hair off of the freeze brand so he could actually read it. Gave the number to the local BLM manager and they came back and told me when and where "Hildago" was captured.
The tree huggers will out spend us 1000-1 on that one. They've already bought a zillion acre ranch as a "refuge" for the horses.
And the BLM is doing a good job, in my opinion, against public opposition. Every time there is a round up, the tree huggers show up with video equipment and film. On the first day of last year's round up, some horse broke a leg, running from the helicopter and it was all over the news, swaying public opinion in their favor. The BLM continued the round up.
In a lot of instances I believe we could "band" together and make positive changes but in this one area I think we need to give positive reinforcement to BLM and maybe nudge them to increase their efforts. But for the most part they are already fighting this battle for us.
My understanding is that they have to release all of the horses they gather that are over 4 years old anyways. Everytime I hear about a gather, I hear statistics like, they captured 2,750 horses and removed 1,100. You can't even take an old, broke down domestic horse to the auction yard for chicken feed anymore. A Federal law prohibits that now, they have to be shipped to Mexico or Canada before they can be butchered. How's that for a feel good law? Instead of having them butchered here (USA), we eliminated an industry and the horses get packed into rail cars and shipped to another country, butchered and ground into chicken feed and sent back here at a higher cost. We put people out of work and pay more for a lesser product, stupid!!!
You ain't gonna win any battle on that one.
Here's what we are talking about:
NOT THIS
OR THIS
THIS IS A MUSTANG, MINE. Hope you can see the freeze brand on the left side of his neck. It's the white mark below his left ear, on his neck.
And here's another of him. His mane is over the freeze brand.
My vet has the contract at the local BLM corrals and know alot about mustangs. Last year he shaved the hair off of the freeze brand so he could actually read it. Gave the number to the local BLM manager and they came back and told me when and where "Hildago" was captured.
sagebrush
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,584
We need to find some endangered bird or lizard that is impacted by the encroachment of wild horses. We could get the birders or lizard lovers to fight the wild horse asses!
A chicken feed plant in Austin or Battle Mountain would be a great boost to the local economy.
A chicken feed plant in Austin or Battle Mountain would be a great boost to the local economy.
B
bearman
Guest
Most landowner tags are not for compensation. NDOW pays the landowner for any damage. The tags are giving for wildlife on their range land "sage brush". Nevada gives out way to many tags. There are states that give no tags. I believe there should never be a tag giving to any land owner! Most that get these tags do want them on their property to get the tags. Nevada ranchers have most of the politicians in their pocket. In Nevada if a ranchers cows come on your property its your problem to fence them out. Now if your are the rancher and wildlife comes on their property it is again our problem to fence them out. Double standard I do think. There is the control, Nevada is completely corrupt with politicians. This I feel is one of the biggest problems. Then we could have double, triple and more elk in Nevada. But this will never happened with out getting good people in office.
M
mtm6000
Guest
we need a hunting season on horses......time for horse steaks!!!!! a landowner has to have 50 counted deer on the property to get 1 landowner tag. just because in november hay isnt grown the hay stacks are tore up from the deer and elk and the stack falls over. a tarp was given out to prevent this but the hooves still tore right through it. i am not a farmer just a hunter that has seen the damage done by animals after the growing season is over with.
E
Elitehoghunter
Guest
It would be great if wild horses could be turned over to the states control to be handled as needed but those are a cash cow for fed jobs. BLM would lose a ton of jobs if they got rid of them.
I think the LO tag program is good as done right now and heres the reason. The argument to hunt within 1-5 mile radius around the property i'm sure they the land owners would gladly take cause that would put most tags during the dates that the deer or elk are there. Wich in the case of most LO deer tags it would be in November through December and would make tags more valuable. I hope nobody would advicate that. I know they used to do this in 231 and it took most of the top end bucks every year and the public got it right to change this.
Dont likes, the point scheme! Its a shame when a guy with 16-18 points is not assured a tag when another guy draws it with 3 or 4 draws the tag. IMO at least 1/2 to 3/4 of the tags should go to top pool to get the people that put in the time a tag.
I think the LO tag program is good as done right now and heres the reason. The argument to hunt within 1-5 mile radius around the property i'm sure they the land owners would gladly take cause that would put most tags during the dates that the deer or elk are there. Wich in the case of most LO deer tags it would be in November through December and would make tags more valuable. I hope nobody would advicate that. I know they used to do this in 231 and it took most of the top end bucks every year and the public got it right to change this.
Dont likes, the point scheme! Its a shame when a guy with 16-18 points is not assured a tag when another guy draws it with 3 or 4 draws the tag. IMO at least 1/2 to 3/4 of the tags should go to top pool to get the people that put in the time a tag.
silverstatehunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 338
Have NDOW go buy a few of these bad boys, put some radio collars on em, and release them into a few nice herds during the breeding season. Then located these monsters after the rut and transfer them back to pen till next year. 
Spread the good genes!!!
http://muledeercountry.com/tag/high-fence/
Spread the good genes!!!http://muledeercountry.com/tag/high-fence/
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,078
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-12 AT 09:13PM (MST)[p]Elite, I have to disagree bout the 75%-80% to highest point holders. Most states do that. Nevada was one of the first with PPs, 1990. Oregon, Colorado, Arizona. If you aren't already in the game in these states, you're throwing money away applying if you're over 40. I realize you don't have to apply for the top tier hunts but Elk, Sheep, etc. you'd never draw in Nevada if you started today and 75-80% of the NR tags went to max PP holders.
And when my waiting period is over, I want to hunt Nevada elk again. I see a LO tag in my future.
And when my waiting period is over, I want to hunt Nevada elk again. I see a LO tag in my future.
E
Elitehoghunter
Guest
I see your point in nevada for elk but I would rather take a no point system than the current point system cause thats kinda what I feel like it is anyways especialy with elk then I wouldnt have to buy a license every year.
Nevada would not be like Arizona because the have a separate quota for nonresidents, 20% of tags would only mean 20% of nonresident tags. Utah goes 50% or less to the top point holders and because they have separate quota the remaining 50+ percent of tags go to nonresidents only.
The BLM is restricted by laws as far as their ability to deal with wildhorses goes, it has nothing to do with making money, I dont know where these wild ideas come from?
Nevadas arid landscape has been abused more than most places because of domestic livestock, and invasive plants, especially cheat grass have permanently changed the forage base for wildlife.
The BLM is restricted by laws as far as their ability to deal with wildhorses goes, it has nothing to do with making money, I dont know where these wild ideas come from?
Nevadas arid landscape has been abused more than most places because of domestic livestock, and invasive plants, especially cheat grass have permanently changed the forage base for wildlife.
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,078
Piper, I agree with your 2nd two paragraphs, just couldn't wrap my head around the first.
The reason i think Nevada's draw system is the best is because you're always dangerous. 2 years in a row, the guy that drew the Unit 16, NR early elk tag had 1 PP. I have a friend that has max Nevada elk PPs (19-20-21 now?) and only applies for this tag. He could have drawn a Nevada elk tag years ago if he had just filled in 5 choices instead of one. This system does reward those with the most PPs but guarantees nothing.
The reason i think Nevada's draw system is the best is because you're always dangerous. 2 years in a row, the guy that drew the Unit 16, NR early elk tag had 1 PP. I have a friend that has max Nevada elk PPs (19-20-21 now?) and only applies for this tag. He could have drawn a Nevada elk tag years ago if he had just filled in 5 choices instead of one. This system does reward those with the most PPs but guarantees nothing.
G
gveire
Guest
I hate the fact that i can't even apply for a Elk tag for 10 years then wait another 10 years to draw it its one and done unless your megabucks lucky!!! and 5 years if you don't fill the tag at all thats just Madness!!!
T
tnhillble
Guest
The #1 thing Nevada does incorrect is not give the youth a tag. Last year there were 5 youth that I knew of that did not draw tags. I believe that all youth that put in for a Deer tag should have the opportunity to hunt. Reduce the tags for adults and let them hunt. This is our future.
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