Romney????

S

stanley

Very Active Member
Messages
1,797
Greetings All:

I don't post much anymore, but I still enjoy watching the lively debates that tend to occur in the Campfire..... This article caught my eye this morning. ( http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/05/romney.speech/index.html ) I lived in SLC for 5 years while in college, and hence feel a bit of a kinship to the LDS faithful (although still, and always a Catholic boy myself....).

The question I have of any of the LDS folks on this board is; Does anyone really think Romney has a chance? Does anyone think any Mormon would have a chance? Seems like the mainstream would ultimately run against someone who is seen as being on the fringe, but you never know.

My personal opinion is for STRICT separation of church & state, but that's always a tall order to fill considering the fact that we are ALL ultimately guided/influenced by our religious/spiritual beliefs. What's your opinion? Could a Mormon ever be elected president? How about a Jew? How about a Muslim?

I just wanted to stir the pot a bit on this topic to see what becomes of it.....

S.

:)
 
Romney has no chance, and talking about his faith is only going to hurt him. No one should base their vote on religious beliefs.
 
Religion should have nothing to do with it. I wouldn't hold back a vote just because he is Mormon. Its dumb. Sure his religion may help guide him on some decisions, as long as he is not pushing the Mormon religion onto others, then the separtaion of church and state is still there.











It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I agree religion should have nothing to do with a candidates electibility, I also think religion has no place in government but the reality is it does on both fronts.

I don't care much for Romney but the fact he's a Mormon has nothing to do with it, if it did I'd be no better than the Sunni/Shiite/Kurd ragheads hating each other in Iraq.

Now Huckabee is rising fast and why? because he's a southern Baptist preacher and the far right loves him. give me a guy who happens to be a Morman or a cross dresser Catholic like Rudy anyday. Romney is getting a raw deal but he should expect it from the crowd he runs in.
 
I think he has a good chance. Thr Republican field is wide open and Hillary may not be the Dems choice as it look today. So I do think he has a chance.

I would not vote for an athiest. I would vote for a Christian. I would vot for a Jew. I would definetly not vote for a beliver in Islam. Simply because Koran calls for a Theocracy.

I believe in this day and age it is more important to look at what kind of judges a candidate would apoint. I for one want conservative/strict constitutionaist judges. Hence I am voting for the conservative candidate.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

One reason I want strict judges is to over turn what the Left calls "separation of church and state" as you can see above the first amendment says nothing of the sort. It is activist judges from the past that have screwed us over with their utopian elitest interpretations.





?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
I am a mormon myself, he is just as qualified as any of them are. Did we questions Bush beliefs or Clintons or any of them for that matter. Why is it always an issue when the Mormon faith is involved in anything. Were just as much a christen as any other faith is. One's religuous belief is always going to be an issue but the LDS seems to always be a hot topic and one that they have to defend.
 
Are you classifing Mormons along with the Muslims let's just clairfy that. I would fill alot better if you classifed us say in the same category with the Baptist or 7 th Day Adventist etc. After all all of the following mentioned are "Christens", I really don't think that the Muslim religion follows any traditional christen beliefs.
 
Interesting comments all.....

elkster123; I guess that I AM classifying Mormons with Muslims from the standpoint that they are both religions. Am I trying to make a comparison & contrast between the two religions beliefs? NO, and I don't think I insinuated that. I simply was pointing-out that each one of them is not a 'traditional' religion from the average American's stand-point. Each one of those two religions has that in common. Neither one of them falls within the mainstream 'American' view of Christianity..... I gave my opinion when I opened this topic. Do you have an opinion on the question?

Also, in response to your first point regarding whether we questioned Bush's or Clinton's beliefs; OF COURSE WE DID! Just because it wasn't debated (maybe it was...) on MM.com doesn't mean it wasn't questioned. EVERY candidates religious beliefs are questioned, whether you remember it or not. The reason it wasn't an issue with either of the Presidents you mentioned was because both of them fall within the mainstream here in America. That was the point of this post, was to generate debate on the fact that Romney is NOT mainstream from a religious perspective. Did you read the article??????? It makes clear that the American people are ALWAYS questioning the candidates beliefs. That's why the comparison to Kennedy....


Again, I'm just looking to stir the pot a bit and generate some entertaining debate here.

S.

:)

PS: I never said that Romney wasn't 'qualified'.....
 
202 the only reason you want church and state combined is because you feel your side has the majority it would take to impose your will. Europe tried christian government for a while if you recall, it didn't work out to well. seperation of church and state must be maintained, and it will.

elkster , in my travels hunting around the west the Mormans I've met are great people and have much better priorities than most of the so called " Normal " christians I grew up with. holding the fact Romney is a Morman against him is no different than racism but totally acceptable for some reason I can't explain. the lack of bars in Utah is somewhat disturbing to a guy who grew up in Irish Catholic county but other than that it's all good.
 
"Simply because [the] Koran calls for a Theocracy."

I would think that a lot of folks would be wary of Romney and his LDS faith because when people look at Utah and its legacy and history, they see a state whose policies are most definately shaped by "a" religion. Even though Romney isn't from Ut., obviously his faith ties him to a state whose roots and beginnings were established by religion, and to most, seems to have shades of a theocracy to this day.

No doubt Romneys war-chest is salted with millions of $$$ from "the mormon faithful." The LDS empire has billions of dollars. Would some of these monies be used to buy influence? Maybe and maybe not. I hope not. I like the cut of this guys jib, though he is a bit moderate for my tastes.

I think that Romney could be a viable President and in fact I think I would pick him over Huckabee or Guiliani. He seems to have an astute business sense, financial accumen, and executive skills.

A caveat: Don't confuse my opinion with a comparison of LDS to Islam. Not meant to be. Just some thoughts on what I think may be the fears of some in electing a mormon. I'm not bashing the LDS. Married a mormon gal (though not active anymore). In-laws are mormons (which I still think chafes them a bit, but they've gotten used to me over the last 20 or so years I 'spect).


Interesting discussion, though.
 
>202 the only reason you want
>church and state combined is
>because you feel your side
>has the majority it would
>take to impose your will.
>Europe tried christian government for
>a while if you recall,
>it didn't work out to
>well. seperation of church and
>state must be maintained, and
>it will.

Hey Dude. Wrong again. No where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state. That is some lame wording some liberal activist judges put on the first amendment. I want what it says. Strictly mind you. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" get IT!!!!!!



?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
Here's a question, has Romney used his religion to run Mass. as the Governor like people are afraid he will do as President? If not, why would he do it now as President? I don't see why it should be an issue, but I guess when people have nothing better to b!tch about against somebody they will use whatever they can.












It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Mormons are just a mainstream as the others they have one of the fast's growing memberships, state sides as well as over sea's. Per capita West Coast, vs East Coast the LDS are more of the norm than you think if you take into count the population. Just my thought's.
 
I think Romney would be a great President. The problem i see with him being elected is that to many Americans have a lot of misconstrued ideas about the church and it's values. I think he'd be like any other President in that he would not push his religion on America

Mike
 
I'd vote for him, but I don't want to have to remember the names of 3 or 4 first ladies.......
 
"I'd vote for him, but I don't want to have to remember the names of 3 or 4 first ladies....... "

Took me a minute, but I finally got it! LOL
__________________________
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne
 
Does the white house have enough rooms for that many first ladies?.....lol...j/k.

I'm not mormon, but i wouldn't have a problem voting for him if he is the best candidate. Given current world events, i wouldn't vote for a muslim though.
 
I think somebody could see that Romney would be trouble so they brought up the religion thing just to slow him down. You don't see everybody else getting beat up over their religion. Religion is basically a belief, and I'd imagine they all have beliefs...
I would vote for him...
 
Anyone who bases their vote on a canidates religion is a bigot. This is insane, what does it matter? It was mentioned how he was Gov of one of the most liberal states as a MORMON and no one was forced to 'convert'. This whole BS nonsense about "seperation of church and state", where is this in the Constitution/Bill of Rights? Is does NOT exist.

I will cast my vote for the canidate that has views MOST alike mine, and who has strong CORE values, not one who bases their stance on polls. As it stands I like Romney along w/Huckabee, based on MANY issues, none of which is their PERSONAL religious leanings.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
"""The LDS empire has billions of dollars. Would some of these monies be used to buy influence? Maybe and maybe not."""

This can be said about any major church.
 
So those of you who have a problem wit separation of church and state what don't you like about it? do you want the church to run the state or what? everytime this comes up you whine about it.
 
His speech yesterday was one of the best speechs i ever heard. I like the guy, but his doent have my vote yet.
 
> So those of you who
>have a problem wit separation
>of church and state what
>don't you like about it?
>do you want the church
>to run the state or
>what? everytime this comes up
>you whine about it.

We "whine about it" because it does NOT exist! Is this another 'made up stat'? It is/should be a non-issue. Anyone who believes Mitt if elected would somehow be able to indoctrinate the country with 'mormonism' is self-smart. Name ONE US president who did not hold religious beliefs, yet somehow this country has survived. The bigotry of certain/all religions is pathetic. From the beginning of this GRAND country, religion and a belief in God have been central in the success/greatness of this land, not despite being a religious people.

PRO


Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment restricts Congress with regards to public practice of religion. The text of the clause reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." As a result of this clause, the Congress may not establish an official state religion, nor give political preference to one religion over another.

In practice, the original wording has been modified to include not just Congress, but government organizations at all levels. This is where the seperation of church and state is off track. The left also likes to forget about the second part "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

You know Dude our schools started to go down hill when they pulled prayer. Yes Dude Americans used to pray in school believe it or not. I can kind of understand why it was done but what grinds me is a high school football team can not even say a prayer anymore before a game with out the ACLU Libs filing a law suit. The left has taken seperation of church and state to the nth degree and it is out of friggin control. The left needs to recognise the second part of the first amendment and they don't. They act as though it does not exist. There needs to be a happy medium and until the Supreme court reverses their decision we are stuck with the anti religon Nazis breathing down our neck. They want a godless country like most of the EU, which is exactly why the EU is falling apart.



?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
Separation of church and state is a liberal interpretation of the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution, an interpretation particularly favored by ATHEIST. The section in question reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....".[1] This phrase has been interpreted by some judges to exclude religion from Government and public life by declaring that Church and state must be kept separate.[2] Conservatives have long criticized this interpretation as being without justification in the text or meaning of the First Amendment.
[edit] Keeping the State from the Church's Influence

Thomas Jefferson, the least religious of the Founding Fathers and one of the few who played no role in the drafting of the U.S. Constitution or the First Amendment, first coined the phrase as president in 1802 - a decade after the First Amendment was ratified.[3]. Jefferson used the phrase to appease the Danbury Baptist Association rather than recite an objective interpretation of the law. At the end of his letter, in reflection of how Jefferson himself did not interpret his own phrase to exclude religion from government, he expressed prayers for the letter's recipients:[4]

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802 [1]


The Treaty of Tripoli, drafted during Washington's presidency and ratified by John Adams, states that "The government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."[5] Many proponents of a Christian America point out that the treaty was superseded by the Treaty of Peace and Amity in 1805 (although the superseding of the treaty does not change John Adams' secular view of the United States).
[edit] Separating the Church from the State's Influence







?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
Srenim's I share your thoughts exactly. Bostonians elected Mitt without issues of his religious beliefs. The media is well aware of the evangelical vote and want to magnify the void between Huckabee and Mitt just like Obama and Clinton. After hounding Huckabee, the media propelled Mitt into addressing the issue.

I find Mitt to be a lot like play-doh in the fact that he molds himself to that which will most benefit him.

When he ran for Gov. he was for Pro-choice, Gay rights, and Gay Marriage. That is a pretty bold distancing from Salt Lake City. Politically it was to his advantage since there would be no money from SLC or interest in aiding him to be Governor of all places...Boston.

Now that he is running for President he is Pro-Life, against Gay Marriage and has distanced himself from Gay Rights issues. Mitt is a politician and recognizes the importance of the evangelical vote.

One trait of the Mormon Church that does make me nervous is the good ole mormon boys club. Mormons do business with other mormons in an almost a xenophobic fashion.

I also don't like the fact that Mitt can be easily molded by others or the media. Rudy zaps a zinger about illegals maintaining the grounds at the Governor's mansion. Mitt responds with weasel-like, gonna play dumb answer. Yesterday Mitt canned the contract with grounds maintenance company.

It's time this country has a consistant pro-active President instead of reactive President. George was the same way until 9/11, to compensate he has been overly pro-active ever since. Iraq, the rhetoric over Iran, comments of WWIII, and the credibility gap between the 2003 NIE report, his comments, and Hadley's illustrate this over-zealous behavior.

Anyways, good post Stanley, you should post more often!
 
FTW said, "One trait of the Mormon Church that does make me nervous is the good ole mormon boys club. Mormons do business with other mormons in an almost a xenophobic fashion."

What the hell are you talking about? Look at the business deals Mitt has done, last I checked, Office Depot is NOT owned by a "bunch of good ole mormon boys". I ask for examples of this pure BS claim. Maybe in the 1800's your comment was accurate, but NOT today. We are talking LDS not the Fundamentalist, right? You do know that the LDS do NOT practice polygamy anymore as well, yes?

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
'dudes comment about the lack of bars in UT and growing up in a Irish-Catholic community reminded me of a joke I heard.



A Mormon was seated next to an Irishman on a flight from London . After the plane was airborne, drink orders were taken.

The Irishman asked for a whiskey, which was promptly brought and
placed before him.

The flight attendant then asked the Mormon if he would like a drink. He replied in disgust, "I'd rather be savagely raped by a dozen whores than let liquor touch my lips."

The Irishman then handed his drink back to the attendant and
said, "Me, too, I didn't know we had a choice."

:)
 
"Mormons do business with other mormons in an almost a xenophobic fashion"

That is funny! lol Good businessmen do business with whomsover it stands to be good business to deal with.

I am Mormon and the personal convictions of the candidate are not a factor for me. I like Romney. He is bright, has proven leadership ability, has great oratory and diplomatic skills... Alot of potential. I don't like his flip flopping on issues. A bit too much of a politician for my liking. I don't have the remotest clue who I'd vote for if I had to today.
 
202 Typical " can kind of understand why it was done but what grinds me is a high school football team can not even say a prayer anymore before a game with out the ACLU Libs filing a law suit."
Sorry 202 but wrong again. Prayer before or after the game is perfectly acceptable as long as it is not led by represenatives of the school. Believe me we play football in Nebraska and they do it everytime. I thought they played football in Texas, in fact I watched the Huskers pray before they lost to Texas last year. Guess god only listens to Texans prayers as we lost, or maybe we just had the wrong prayers.
 
Any of you knuckleheads old enough to remember when the line was "A Catholic will never be elected in this country"

John Kennedy proved everyone wrong!

Many of the founding fathers were Masons!

If religion is what you base your vote on don't waste your time!

RUS
 
There's one reason I won't vote for Mitt above all other reasons. He is weak in support of the Second Ammendment. He is in favor of restricting "assault weapons". ENOUGH SAID! I enjoy my ar's, hk's, and 50bmg too much to vote for Mitt. The only viable candidates I see are Ron Paul or Huckabee.

Mitt speaks well, but I don't trust him. Also I think Hillary is the Anti-Christ. Imagine Obama and Hillary getting elected on a ticket with Hillary as vice-prez. How long do you think it would take before Obama had an accident and ended up like Ron Brown or Vince Foster.
 
Look at his values he is a stand up guy. I would vote for him a lot faster then any Clinton..He has core values maybe not perfact in every way but atleast he has good morals and Values...


UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard UT
 
Sorry Rus, you old fart I wasn't even born yet. You're not gonna start talking about 5 cent candy bars etc. are you? :)
 
>202 Typical " can kind of
>understand why it was done
>but what grinds me is
>a high school football team
>can not even say a
>prayer anymore before a game
>with out the ACLU Libs
>filing a law suit."
>Sorry 202 but wrong again. Prayer
>before or after the game
>is perfectly acceptable as
>long as it is not
>led by represenatives of the
>school. Believe me we play
>football in Nebraska and they
>do it everytime. I
>thought they played football in
>Texas, in fact I watched
>the Huskers pray before they
>lost to Texas last year.
> Guess god only listens
>to Texans prayers as we
>lost, or maybe we just
>had the wrong prayers.

You see corn when I was a kid coach led us in prayer. ACLU libs stoped that.
We here in Texas do not pray for a win like you Nebraskins we pray for safety of our players and yours.


?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
I played high school football in the late 70's and I don't remember anyone ever praying before a game, that was before your evil libs gained control so don't blame them. if I thought it was so dangerous I needed to pray for survival I'd have picked another sport.
 
"You do know that the LDS do NOT practice polygamy anymore as well, yes?"

REALLY???.....ever been to arizona?
 
>I played high school football in
>the late 70's and I
>don't remember anyone ever praying
>before a game, that was
>before your evil libs gained
>control so don't blame them.
>if I thought it was
>so dangerous I needed to
>pray for survival I'd have
>picked another sport.

Well Dude down here in the Bible Belt we take our religon seriously just like our football...........

That last sentance of yours is hilarious though.


?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
>"You do know that the LDS
>do NOT practice polygamy anymore
>as well, yes?"
>
>REALLY???.....ever been to arizona?

Anyone practicing polygamy is NOT a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are an offshoot, funadmentalist group, that has NO ties to the current leadership of the church. Polygamy is a doctorine no longer practiced in the LDS church!
 
I'm always asking myself why I have one wife. anyone who wanted extra ones would have to be an idiot, probably the male suicide rate is why it's now banned .
 
>I'm always asking myself why I
>have one wife. anyone who
>wanted extra ones would have
>to be an idiot, probably
>the male suicide rate is
>why it's now banned .
>

Dude we agree once again. I remember watching that HBO show Big Love and thinking that guy is an IDIOT. No man in his RIGHT mind would want more than one wife. Talk about getting nagged to DEATH.
LMAO..................

?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
And what about shoes?
__________________________
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne
 
I agree, one brood mare in the barn is plenty but nothing wrong with keeping a string of fillies in the north 40 is there?

RUS
 
true....as long as they aren't in the same barn. a guy would have to have an outhouse because he'd never be able to get in the bathroom....lol.
 
Well I personally think Mitt is a moron, not the one running for president, our own Mitt.
 
Question, do Mormons do the Christmas thing? some of us were arguing about it last night but I really don't know. if they don't I might be more apt to vote for Mitt, if he promised to ban Christmas music I'd put his sign on my gate post.
 
I guess you won't be voting for Mitt, since Mormons "do the Christmas thing". Since Mormons believe in Christ, Mormons celebrate his birth!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
>Question, do Mormons do the Christmas
>thing?

"The Christmas thing"? LOL Of course Mormons celebrate Christmas. It IS called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, after all. We like get togethers, ok? It's a great excuse to eat funeral potatoes, ham and green jello salad. ;-)

Also, the Mormon church does not endorse candidates for any political office nor do they give money to any political candidate. I can assure you as well that the Prophet, the President of the LDS church, Gordon B. Hinckley, has no desire to secretly influence Brother Romney should he become elected President of the United States.

Jenn
"Behind every great man is a great woman...and behind every great woman is some guy staring at her butt!"
 
Apparently dude hasn't seen SLC at night during the Christmas.

I'm not LDS but that temple downtown when they do the lights is spectacular. I'll bet they leave a carbon footprint almost as big as Al Gores Mansions.
 
Sorry, the only thing I know about Mormans came from an episode of South Park. oh yeah , and again a distinct lack of bars. The few Mormans I know are super nice people and never push their religion at all, wish I could say the same of the born again drunks I grew up with. growing up in Irish Catholic country you'ld probably be amazed at the misconceptions about the Morman faith. the guys I was talking to about Mormans and Christmas honesty thought Christmas was not celibrated. I thought it was because driving through SCL last week I saw Christmas stuff, but I didn't know for sure myself. Romney doesn't have a chance, due to ignorance and prejudice from too many voters.

If Mitt's not going to ban Christmas music who can I vote for that will? Obama might be my best hope. Oprah is going to elect him it looks like, may as well get one good thing out of it.
 
LMAo Jim I'm not LDS but that temple downtown when they do the lights is spectacular. I'll bet they leave a carbon footprint almost as big as Al Gores Mansions.
Baghdad Dude will buy him some credits.
 
All the Christians are dancing around the reasons why I would never vote for Mitt Romney or any Mormon, Hindu, Muslim, Scientologist, ect. for President of the United States of America. There are very sound Bible based reasons. Reasons that go to the very core of what I believe and why. Reasons that define who Jesus Christ is and who God is. If my beliefs are in direct opposition to what any candidate believes I could not and would not endorse that person with my vote.

Its fair chase, or its foul!
 
> "Sound Bible based reasons "
>? isn't than an
>oxymoron?
>
>

No, but it IS religious bigotry!

PRO


Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Triple K,

How can you assure the American Citizens that the prophet wouldn't have any influence on Mitt's decisions?

Tell me this, if you were the President of the US and a faithful LDS memeber, and the prophet (the direct word of God) had told you to do something....Would you do it?

I question your integrity either way. If you didn't follow your spiritual guidance, which is priority (right?) because you are the leader of a government body and promised the american citizens not to....I question you faith, thus your honesty.
If you did follow the spiritual guidance (to ship everybody back to Missouri on a holy trek or something)....yikes!

Harry Reid, the ultra democrat Senate Majority Leader, is LDS. My favorite quote from Harry is "I think it is much easier to be a good member of the Church and a Democrat than a good member of the Church and a Republican."

What's your thoughts?
 
You didn't ask for my thoughts, but here they are anyway!

The LDS church Doesn't 'control' Reid, Hatch, Bennet, why do you Aassume it would Mitt as President?

Your hypothetical scenrio is nonsensical and is akin to asking a Catholic the same in regards to the Pope. Did the Pope 'control' JFK? Maybe Marilyn Monroe knew the answer(eye roll).

Just because Harry Reid made a comment does NOT make it true. The LDS is church is independant of either party, but if you look at the core values of each party, you can see why a fairly large majority of Mormons are conservative in their politics. A Mormon can NOT get an abortion on demand and be in good standing in the church, that IS directly in opposition to the national policy of the democratis party that Harry is the majority leader of in the Senate. So, he can say all kinds of false statements, and only those who don't know better or are bigoted will agree with.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pro,

Thanks fro your thoughts.
I never stated the church controls anyone...Everyone is free to choose. But I question loyalty and intergrity.

You never answered my question though...WWYD if YOU were president under the scenario I presented? Who would you follow? Remember honesty is a virtue....
 
When you believe in a book that has stories with talking snakes, arks that collect and replant animals all over the world, making people out of a rib, saying we're all inbred from the same two parents then say a Morman isn't fit to be president because they think some guy in MO dug up some additional information I mean com'on, who decides where to draw the line. If Romney was a whacko we'ld know it by now, holding his religion against him is un American.
 
Dude, for someone that didnt know LDS had x-mas you sure seem to think you know alot about the book of Mormon. Did you get that info from your talkin points? Do you have any thoughts of your own? You might try it someday you might like it.
 
I know almost nothing about the Morman religion. I know enough about Christianity in general to know calling any religion crazy or inferior is not only laughable but ludicris.

I need some thoughts of my own? there's something I don't hear much. I have no religion so I'm able to think for myself and have no religious prejudice, none of them appeal to me and none of them scare me. good people are good, bad are bad, show me where any religion doesn't have both. original enough for you?
 
Well, except for not liking "Oh Tannenbaum" and "White Christmas".....I gotta go with Dude on this one.

Anyone who accepts the Bible....King James version or whatever, and then criticizes ANY other religion is a kool-aid drinkin' fool!

Why a candidates' religion is relavent should only come up if he is a zealot about it.

I admit I would not want to see Barak Obama running this country, because then I know the possibility that we will eventually turn "arabia et al", into a frosted glass beer mug, will not occur. Other than him, I don't even care.....we are going to be screwed by whoever we get.

I simply want $2.00 gas and to keep my guns....first one says "I agree", gets my vote.
 
You bet it is Dude. We might get you away from the crap your reading yet. I wont count on it, but thats ok. I need someone to fight with.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-07 AT 07:42PM (MST)[p]Huntindude,
Your views on the Bible and Religion are well known. But it is your right to spout off about anything, even if you know nothing about it. That never really stopped you before. Here's one for you Proverbs 1 verse 7. Look it up if you want to learn something. If not then just keep spouting off.

Its fair chase, or its foul!
 
BBB wrote: "You never answered my question though...WWYD if YOU were president under the scenario I presented? Who would you follow? Remember honesty is a virtue...."

I did answer the question, I said it is a bogus scenario. Why don't you ask WWYD if aliens from Mars stopped by for a visit.

Dude, nothing was found in the ground in Missouri, it was upstate New York. I wonder how you have any 'faith' in America with your 'beliefs', since MOST/ALL the founding fathers and EVERY President believed/believes the Bible. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and as America becomes more secuilar as you seem to prefer, it becomes weaker as a nation, and as a people.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-07 AT 11:04PM (MST)[p]I figured you weren't going to answer the question.
What is soo "bogus" about the question?...explain that.

You don't think there would be counsel from the "mouth of God" that may condradict what is good for the country. Please try not skirting around the questions with bogus answers. I'm playing the devil's advocate but these are legitimate concers many poeple have alhtough they might not say it up front.I feel like this is turning into bible bashin'....Have a great week everybody.
 
>BBB wrote: "You never answered my
>question though...WWYD if YOU were
>president under the scenario I
>presented? Who would you follow?
>Remember honesty is a virtue...."
>
>
>I did answer the question, I
>said it is a bogus
>scenario. Why don't you ask
>WWYD if aliens from Mars
>stopped by for a visit.
>
>
>Dude, nothing was found in the
>ground in Missouri, it was
>upstate New York. I wonder
>how you have any 'faith'
>in America with your 'beliefs',
>since MOST/ALL the founding fathers
>and EVERY President believed/believes the
>Bible. This country was founded
>on Judeo-Christian principles, and as
>America becomes more secuilar as
>you seem to prefer, it
>becomes weaker as a nation,
>and as a people.
>
>PRO
>
>Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy
>and opportunity hunts throughout the
>state of Utah.

PRO........that statement may be the funniest thing I have read on this post. Presidents believing in the Bible....are you serious? They have broken nearly every Commandment in almost every administration since Lincoln....and continue to espouse their moral values????? They do nothing without self interest in mind and if it necessary to be religious, well then they are, until their interests are served. They lie, cheat and steal every thing they can, for themselves and the people who paid to get them elected. Then after they are out of office they reap what they sowed.....gravey for life.

There are no Patriots in politics now days...they ALL make me sick.
 
This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and as America becomes more secuilar as you seem to prefer, it becomes weaker as a nation, and as a people.

Pro, you hit the nail on the head with that one.

Have a Merry Christmas.
Yukon
 
>Triple K,
>
>How can you assure the American
>Citizens that the prophet wouldn't
>have any influence on Mitt's
>decisions?
>

What I meant when I said that is that Gordon B. Hinckley isn't going to be secretly calling President Mitt and advising him or telling how or what to do. He's just not. The LDS Church has a great respect of the political process and government of the United States, but does NOT make a practice of influencing members directly (noone tells anyone how to vote). Of course Romney's personal convictions, that include doctrine from the Prophet of the LDS church, will influence his political stance. But the Prophet of the LDS church just isn't interested in using the office of the U.S. Presidency to influence the American people as to the ways of the LDS Church. That's all I meant.

The LDS religion teaches that everyone has his or her free agency. We make our own choices here on this earth and we're responsible for those actions. There will be consequences. If the Prophet counsels us to do something (such as please only wear one pair of earrings...or please read the Book of Mormon with your family) it's our own decision whether or not to do it. The LDS religion involves putting your life in an eternal perspective, not just an emphasis on earthly views and matters. So I'd have to say that if the Prophet started directing folks to Missouri, I would more than likely listen and follow his counsel. I'd hope my faith were that strong anyway.

>Harry Reid, the ultra democrat Senate
>Majority Leader, is LDS. My
>favorite quote from Harry is
>"I think it is much
>easier to be a good
>member of the Church and
>a Democrat than a good
>member of the Church and
>a Republican."
>
>What's your thoughts?

LOL Why do you think I'm not a Republican? So much judgement and being in other people's business and trying to control lives from the conservative right....I'm not interested in that. I like free agency and firmly believe that this earthly life is a test. There are temptations in our paths that we must learn to resist and getting rid of the "appearance of evil" (i.e. banning questionalbe practices such as abortion) just doesn't work for me. I would never have an abortion myself. I know what the consequences of that action are and I don't want that. But, I also believe it is up to each individual (free agency) to decide what is right for him/her. Taking away choices....instituting legislation that takes away choice....is not really what I'm interested in.

Jenn
"Behind every great man is a great woman...and behind every great woman is some guy staring at her butt!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-07 AT 11:05PM (MST)[p]Jenn,
Thanks for being honest in your decision to be pro-choice and that you would most likely take the prophet's counsel on a big decision like directing folks to Missouri....I need to get back to the mule deer forum!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-07 AT 11:53PM (MST)[p] Idabuck, I don't have a Bible and even if I did I couldn't decipher your churchese into anything coherent. thats probably why there are 500 different religions from the same book. where did I indicate I was anti religion? I always say they're all fine with me but I'm not buying any of it myself. if I had a religion you guys disapproved of would you still snipe at me or would is it the fact I have none that makes me spooky? I'm pretty sure I'm not the anti-christ if that's the problem. it seems you and pro see me as inferior because I have no religion , just as your ancestors did of my mothers heathen ancestors. I'm glad to say most of the world with the exception of the middle east has evolved beyond such ignorance.

If any of this seems as if I'm angry or upset I'm not, feel free to say what you think. peoples thoughts on religion interest me and I have no emotion about the subject, it's just something else to debate. they say you should never discuss religion or politics, those issues come up here all the time so we should expect some tension. I'm fine with it myself and if I step on any toes it isn't intended.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-07
>AT 11:05?PM (MST)
>
>Jenn,
>Thanks for being honest in your
>decision to be pro-choice and
>that you would most likely
>take the prophet's counsel on
>a big decision like directing
>folks to Missouri....I need to
>get back to the mule
>deer forum!



OUCH !!! lol

DC, here I come.....
 
Dude, don't get all defensive about being a non-believer. To act like I am putting you down as if you NEVER do the same is inane. You talk about how 'believers' are ignorant, yet act ignorant yourself!

BBB, the reason I say your question is a "bogus issue" is the LDS faith as what we call "The Articles of Faith". htere are 13 of them. #12 states: "We believe in being SUBJECT to kings, PRESIDENTS, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Therefore, I can't imagine a scenario where the Prophet would 'direct' the President of the United States to act in a way that would be as you discribe. Exra Taft Benson, a deceased Prophet, and a former Secratary of Agruculture, and a John Bircher, AUTHOR OF A BOOK TITLED "God, Family, Country", NEVER attempted to deviate from the 12th article of Faith. Why would a less 'radical' Prophet do so now?

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Oh my god (pun intended)! I woke up last night in a cold sweat. I was having a nightmare. In the dream it was election day and I had gone to vote. When I looked at my ballot the only two names for president were Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney and the stupid machine wouldn't let me vote "None of these candidates". }>
 
Pro you're the defensive one. I say I'm fine with religion as long as it's not forced on me in any way, that means politically also. you're never going to convince most regular Christians that your Morman religion isn't screwed up, Romney is proof. I find it amusing since all religions are so far fetched but this is just the way it is. in a way our society is just as religiously biased as the ragheads, we're just more reserved about it and less violent in part because of the religion itself I suppose.
 
>in
>a way our society is
>just as religiously biased as
>the ragheads

Please Dude, do explain.


?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
Explain? if you don't se it you're not going to get it but here goes.

Many " good " Christians say they can't vote for Romney because he's a Morman, how many Sunni in Iraq would vote for a Shiite? how many Americans would vote for a great candidate who happened to be a Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or any other less common religion in America? about as many as there would be Iraqis voting for a Catholic. we have the freedom of religion in this country but not the freedom to be treated equal when it comes down to the nut cutting. the big difference is we don't kill each other and we try not to say we don't like other religions or people without religion in my case. Romney isn't my idea of a great president but his religion will prevent him from getting the chance, that's not what we're supposed to be about as Americans. I'm not saying it's the end of the world or a real big problem because it isn't, but there's no denying it.
 
But you said "in a way our society is just as religiously biased as the ragheads"

Religiously biased. Or you could say nonreligious biased could'nt you?
You take an extreme example dude and hold it up as mainstream. Your argument is meaningless. These so called "Good Christians" you talk about are less that 1% of the voting population. I live in the bible belt Dude and I will tell you his religon is a mute point except for the liberal media spot lighting it and making it a false issue.

Now there was a time on this forum when Tfinal would come to the defence of using a racial term like you used to describe folks in the middle east. Gues those days are gone.






?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,
 
Dude,"Romney isn't my idea of a great president but his religion will prevent him from getting the chance, that's not what we're supposed to be about as Americans." How can you say that? This isnt over yet. While I,m not morman it will not stop me for voting for him. Your such a good mind reader of the american people.
 
Good try guys, Romney knows it's a problem why do you think he's trying to take the attention off of it? I'm not saying it's the reason he won't get elected but it's not helping. at least Idabuck is honest enough to admit he wouldn't vote for him because of it, surveys say he's not alone at all.

I'll use carpet pilot from now on when speaking of middle easterners if I've offended you 202.
 
Catholics out number Mormans and for some reason they scare less people.

You will admit religion elected Bush now won't you? or do you think the southern red states vote republican to protect their stock portfolios and keep tax breaks for the top cats? if religion can effect one man winning it can effect another's losing. people are free to vote as they wish but don't pretend religion doesn't matter.
 
Dude i was born in 62 so i can only go by what i read and see about JFK. The other day CSPAN ran the JFk speech about this same subject. If you watched it, he made the the speech for the same reason Mitt made his. Catholic's scared the crap out the people then. I dont understand it but it did. I dont buy the fact that Bush was elected for religion, i think he was elected for tax cuts. Dude its none of my biz but do you have enough deposable income that you would like to be taxed more. the dem's are tring to raise our taxes as we speak. We dont need more taxes we need ALL the aholes in D.C. to get spending under control.
 
No I'm taxed quite enough thank you, BUT your hero Bush has put us so deep in debt I see no way out. I don't have kids and I have a pretty good income so like the good republican I am putting it off for the next generation to deal with seems like a swell idea. but wrong.

Com'on the deep south is the poorest area of the nation, they need tax cuts? many of them don't have an income so how important are tax cuts to them? they are also the most religious region of the nation, hard to figure why they vote republican isn't it? the republicans can't hold any power without the southern religious vote, Rove knew it and capitolized on it, and it's worked well. it will work against Romney.
 
202: "I live in the bible belt Dude and I will tell you his religon is a mute point except for the liberal media spot lighting it and making it a false issue."

As a "Mitt-homer" and a "Mormon" that used to live in the bible belt, I agree with this statement. As a Mormon, I'm constantly bombarded by the MSM telling me how I was raised a racist and a poligamist, when I know for a fact that the exact opposite is true. So why should I now start believing the same MSM when it tells me that my bible belt neighbors were all closet bigots, even though they treated me, a "Mormon cult-member" just like their family. Sure there's a few rogues, just like there is the occasional rogue Mormon that the MSM always manages to dig up and quote in its never-ending attempts to mislead the uninformed. Don't allow yourselves to be manipulated by the MSM whose intent is to fragment conservatives.

If Mitt does not get the nomination, it's more likely going to be because the social conservatives are uncomfortable with his recent history of being pro-choice. I personally believe his recent conversion to pro-life is genuine, but even I admit that the timing of it looks political. There's no need for Mormons to take it personal.
 
To those that have raised the question of whether the Prophet could exercise undue influence on the Presidency I offer the following Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saint policy directly from its website:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today re-emphasized its long-standing position of party political neutrality in response to a large number of calls from the news media over the past few days.

The statement of political neutrality has been posted on the Church?s Newsroom web site for the past year and has been widely disseminated to journalists. It says:

The Church?s mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians. The Church?s neutrality in matters of party politics applies in all of the many nations in which it is established.

The Church does not:

* Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
* Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
* Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
* Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.

The Church does:

* Encourage its members to play a role as responsible citizens in their communities, including becoming informed about issues and voting in elections.
* Expect its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting the fact that members of the Church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters.
* Request candidates for office not to imply that their candidacy or platforms are endorsed by the Church.
* Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church."
 
Dude, Congress controls the wallet not Bush. Bush did fight for line item veto. Last time I checked its a dem controled congress.
 
Maybe the last time you checked it is, but it wasn't for the 6 years prior, check and see how good your repubilcan heros did during their time. you expect the dems to cut spending now that they have some say? good one, yeah that's what they're known for.
 

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