SB196

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vmcfadden

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-11 AT 09:16AM (MST)[p]PASSED CONSERVATION. Don,t know if its true but on other sites its the talk. 90/10 split 90% res, 8% NR guide and 2% NR DIY. What a shame!
 
Not a huge surprise if this is the direction it goes.

The group with no representation gets steam rolled.

Not what I would call a compromise.

The rich lawyer types go guided, so maybe no legal challenges from the DIY NR.



I see this last off season as nothing but alienating the groups that should be allies.

Cattleman growers and Outfitter Assosciation have had the political muscle for a long time and have missed their chance for reaching out to the Resident hunters with a fair compromise.

NMWF turned the regular hunters against Landowners, Cattle growers, and outfitters (maybe they had it coming??)

The angry mob who has been under represented for a long time got in bed with what may be a environmentalist group to get some justice.

Hope after all this settles down these groups can work together again.

Problems to still be fixed.

Landowner Elk tag program inequities

Dwindling deer herds.

Financing G&F so that game laws are enforced

Over hunted herds
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-11 AT 09:26AM (MST)[p]They are saying on the other sites that that is what the hearing has come down to and this is what will be approved. It was amended by a 7 to 1 vote. 90% RES, 8% NR guided and 2% NR DIY. I don't like it at all just passing it on.
 
Can't find it in there either,but then again it gives me a headache just going thru it...I saw the same 8%-2% non-res. split elsewhere too. Talk about a pendulum swing.It will be taken to court as it is not nearly fair to non-residents,but cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind. Wait and see what our tags cost next year,and landowner tags will go thru the roof.So much for residents buying them.
 
Its not in the bill this is the amendment to the bill. Basically they have voted to change the bill a 7 to 1 vote. The bill states 90/10 90% RES and 10% NR guided or DIY. This amendment does away with that and makes it 90/8/2 90% RES, 8% guided, and 2% NR DIY. It was approved as the new bill.
 
All I saw was the 90% for residents and the guided/unguided lines struck through (deleted). I wish they would just decide on a percentage for NRs, be it 10, 12, 15, whatever and leave it at that.

After reading all the outfitter doomsday stuff, I've done a little thinking. I was one of about 1700 people that got laid off by Eclipse Aviation when it went Tango Uniform in 2008. Luckily, I had the foresight to accept another job 3 days before my pink slip. Still have several former co-workers that are trying to find work. What about all the layoffs that have happened at Intel in RR over the years? Other than unemployment, what has the state done for these THOUSANDS of people?

I'm friends with several fishing guides on the San Juan and there's not a welfare program set up for them. I have nothing against outfitters, but they should scrap for their business just like the rest of us do. It's time to let the cream rise to the crop. Times are tough for everyone, not just the outfitters.
 
FYI

Any bill must be heard in a sub-committee then forwarded to possibly another sub-commtiee then comes on the floor of which part of congres. Once either the house or senate votes then it goes to the other for vote. If passes both house and senate then it has to be signed by govenor.

This bill just got by the first committee. By no means it is law yet.






Outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man.
 
Agree with you on process 100% all I'm saying is the bill is a different bill now. This has no regards for the NR trying a DIY hunt basically eliminates them. NR only chance is going guided.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-11 AT 11:16AM (MST)[p]Where are you finding this information? I've e-mailed Senator Munoz on this and am waiting for a reply. The only evidence I've seen of this 8-2 split is heresay on hunting forums.

PS - I'm not really in favor of anything in that bill. That are a lot of things that need fixing before the NR allocation. I like to hunt out of state, and I think opportunity needs to exist for people that want to hunt here.
 
The info i'm getting is off of bowsite and some very reliable sources. I also like to hunt out of state hunt about 10 different states with NM being one of them. I am hoping not to lose NM only hunted there once but it was a good time.
 
Well... there it is. Just recieved an e-mail from the NMWF. 8% guided, 2% unguided. I think this is boderline criminal. To give a measley 2% to unguided hunters is rediculous. Something needs to be done in this state, but this is not it.
 
Wow! As a resident, I've had my share of disappointing draw days but to only allow 2% for DIY Nonresidents is an embarrassment. I personally think more of an effort should have been made to pull some of the LO tags into the draw pool to increase resident hunting opportunities. That to me is where more of the abuses and "welfare" program mentality in this state exists.
 
Simple politics. The least represented group takes it up the azz.

We will now be in the same class as WA, ID and OR as far as sticking it to the NR.

Like I stated before, when you get politicians involved, fair is not part of the equation. Follow the money/votes.

This is what all the fighting was about, and our biggest problems do not even make to the table.
 
Guys this bill is only in the conservation committee right now. If you disagree the best thing to do is write your state reps and senators and show your disapproval for this bill then call them. If you google NM legislature you can find your rep to send emails and make the calls. Most of these people have no idea what the bill will do and just vote with the party or what there constitutants (sp) tell them to do. Make a big enough stink and it will not pass.
 
I'll try and sway some politicians,but I'm just average guy. And this is NM,gotta have alotta $or none to have a say here. This is criminal giving non-residents that want to go DIY 2%
 
I lack the eloquence to express just how devastating this law would be to my future hunting plans for me and my family. I live in El Paso and NM is my hunting home.

Are there any organizations at all that would represent NR DIY interests in this upcoming battle?
 
>I lack the eloquence to express
>just how devastating this law
>would be to my future
>hunting plans for me and
>my family. I live
>in El Paso and NM
>is my hunting home.
>
>Are there any organizations at all
>that would represent NR DIY
>interests in this upcoming battle?
>


I feel for you stevie. If this goes through, it is because the outfitters are represented and now the regular Joe in NM is being represented.

I think that the politicians that are now involved care about the outfitters and how they would be negatively effected and the res voters that have been getting the short end of the stick for a long time.
You cant vote in NM and they think they got the $ handled through the outfitters.

If this goes through, I have a big "told you so" to some people about politicians getting involved in Hunting.

NMWF will have to change their slogan from
"Our key priorities are: Opportunity Habitat Youth"
"Our key priorities are: Opportunity (for residents and rich non residents only) Habitat Youth

Embarrassing.
 
You need to look at the numbers in a different way. 80% of NR hunters have to hire a guide and only 20% are DIY. This is criminal. How would you feel if you hunted Colorado and had to hire a guide or outfitter. The 90% resident is OK , even though a lot of people feel guilty. Its the Guide and outfitter law is whats messed up. If it was opposite 2% guide and 8% DIY the NR wouldn't complain as much. What would happen if 80% NR had to have a fishing guide to fish in New Mexico? If guides and outfitters are a good thing let the hunting market work it out. Dont require people to buy things they dont want.
 
Very Sad Situation. I can promise you that the outfitters I have talked to do not support shafting the NGNR in any way. Hopefully something can be done to fix this fiasco.
 
How can the state New Mexico afford to cut 12% of non-resident tag revenue? Plus all the revenue from non-residents just applying for the tags. That application fee and the state holding on to the full price for the tag, before the drawing, will dramatically drop. Who is going to put up $780, for 2-4 months for a 2% chance of drawing a tag?

Once your Game & Fish Dept looses that money, they get it back by raising your resident prices.....
 
The 8/2% rule is as wrong as the 12% previous welfare entitlement for OFs. As a resident, I am against it. I quess the market is being forced into socailism again. I think letting the market decide how many NR use Outfitters is well, American. Get rid of the 8% entitlement. If the LO/OF cartel flexes there power, we should at least get it down to 5/5%
 
Thank Goodness for the NMWF and the load of SH*T they like to feed people and thank goodness for the CROOKED AZZ, money grubing, back stabbing politicians in New Mexico. This makes your last governor look like a saint.
 
If this goes through, LO,s will be pushing for even more tags because demand will be even higher. win/win for outfitters/LO,s.
 
>How can the state New Mexico
>afford to cut 12% of
>non-resident tag revenue? Plus all
>the revenue from non-residents just
>applying for the tags. That
>application fee and the state
>holding on to the full
>price for the tag, before
>the drawing, will dramatically drop.
>Who is going to put
>up $780, for 2-4 months
>for a 2% chance of
>drawing a tag?
>
>Once your Game & Fish Dept
>looses that money, they get
>it back by raising your
>resident prices.....


BP, they think they have the answer to that. Besides giving Non Guided NR only 2% draw odds, they will be requiring them to buy a NR hunting license before they can apply.\
Our good politicians think you may enjoy driving 900 miles to go dove or quail hunting.
The hits keep coming!!
 
Paul - I would only drive +1200 miles to go quail hunting if they let me buy a fishing license for half price.

If they pass this, I just hope they don't do it this year. I have plans to hunt in NM this year. The area I want to draw is not a trophy unit, and as a non-resident I still have a great chance of drawing the tag. All the other hunters in the unit I ran into were all residents and all said it was their third choice tag. With a 2% chance, I will probably never draw the tag again. I will not be able to draw a resident's third choice tag. My +$300 I have to spend on a third choice unit will not reach the state.

Your State will loose a lot of money and they will need to make it up somewhere.....
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-11 AT 08:52PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-11 AT 08:49?PM (MST)

Deleted.
 
fishfurlife - how can you put any blame on the current governor? She might have heard of it but doubt she has even has a chance to think about it yet. Let along do anything with it?





Outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man.
 
I really didn't mean it in a manner to deface your new governor. It was more saying that what the people behind this are doing is making your last governor look like a saint, and we all know he wasn't
 
As a resident of the "Land of Entrapment", I am happy to see the 90/10 thing.

To give non-residents not using a guide, 2% is a complete and total joke!

A reliable source told me, an outfitter stood up at the committee meeting about it. He was against it. He offered a good service, and did a good job. He did not have to make people pay him to hunt in NM! IE...... "pay me $500 to use my number to apply"!

This is NM. If nothing else, "we" have gotten some attention. Hunters are sick of getting screwed residents or non-residents.
 
Very sad, I will have to hunt in another state if it passes. I honestly can't think that the money hungry law makers will pass it since it will reduce state revenue. But, since when did state legislators do things that make sense...
 
>If this goes through, LO,s will
>be pushing for even more
>tags because demand will be
>even higher. win/win for outfitters/LO,s.


Could you explain in detail how the LO/OF cartel will use this to get more tags? Sincerely, LO tags need to be reduced by 10% to recover from the devastation there greed has done to quality in NM.
 
Here is a thought I do not know how far it will go. but if it works in the antelope it should work for elk.
the outfitters and the NR keep 10% each and the res pop takes 80% but then we take 10% of UW elk tags and Place them into the Res Draw. So example would be if a current until gets 50 tags 5 got to outfitters/ 5 got to NR and 40 go to Res then we would take the amount of UW LOT and add that back into the Res pool.

thoughts? can we run this up the flag pool so to speak
 
I have a ?????
If this 2% DIY/NR allocation goes through will it apply across the board to all spp???(Bighorn,Barbary,Oryx,Ibex??).
 
If there aren't any outfitters running in the units that you hunt in will those 8% of tags go over to the 2% DIY guys?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-11 AT 03:53PM (MST)[p]As a NR who has hunted NM before, and would love to do so again, I am baffled on why NM would throw away the NR money that they are. I thought WA was the only "major" falked up western state when it came to NRs...........
 
I have hunted NM several times as a DIY NR. I have not needed a guide or outfitter and could not afford on even if needed. I have spent lots of $$ in NM for normal hunting trip expenses. If the NM legislature goes ahead with this madness that is being proposed my odds of ever drawing a tag went down the toilet and my $$ and hunting efforts will go to another state or I may even have to give up my hunts. New Mexico has had the fairest draw system of all the states I have hunted I sure hate to see that changed.

Phantom Hunter
 
I am a resident and this makes me sick to think about. As Paul said can't trust politics to do things right. I have meet a lot of great people out hunting that were DIY and haveing a great time on there hunt. Sad Sad day if this piece of you know what goes through.
 
This would be a great if it were not for the HUGE socailism clause. 5/5% at best. 8/2% makes me disqusted the more I think about it. Sorry, you want to treat NR DIY like that, expect it back. My vote is 10% with no socailistic designations. CHANGE the 2% and then vote on it. It seems they will screw over anyone. Now that they are backing off the residents, there going after the NRs.
 
Now that they are backing off the residents, there going after the NRs.

Don't Fret...I am sure they will be back for the residents wallet b4 its over.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-11 AT 08:02PM (MST)[p]This is the residents chance to change things. You would not believe some of the rediculous statements coming from other sites. The problem is these statements I'm talking about are coming from the people they want to represnt them.
 
Just Leave New Mecico the way it is and don't screw it up!! This bill is bad all the way round!!!
 
I hope this fails miserably or it won't be long until Colorado, Wyoming, etc. are pulling the same crap. I hope the people of NM don't like hunting in those states.
 
Has anybody ran the numbers on how much revenue goes away when convert these tags from the higher cost NR to lower cost Resident tag fee?

Just how much will the Resident license and tags fees go up?

Does not do much good to put a mandatory NR license in place if NR have minimal incentive to apply in NM.

So, that leaves Residents to pay more but how much more will it be? Will elk tag go up $10 or $100 or ???
 
I ran the tenative numbers for deer, elk and antelope and it looked like the resident cost would need to double depending on how many non-residents actually bought the new $90 hunting license.
 
Money is not an issue here!

Do you not think residents of NM, would not be willing to pay $200 etc for an elk tag?

Freaking, 50 g trucks, atv's, and 5th wheels.

It is such a weak argument!
 
I think extra tag cost will actually give the dedicated residents of New Mexico better odds, because it for sure would eliminate some residents.

The problem is, the tag price will have to increase way more than double in a few years, to make up for the lack of NR apps! Who knows how many NR will apply for 2% of the tags? I would say maybe 30% that are applying now.

But hell, I don't see a guy worring about $3 or $400, that wants to hunt elk.
Its for sure a win-win for the resident
 
Don't worry about the resident who don't have the couple of hundred dollars more he will still go hunting with or without that tag.
See how Wyoming does the special draw if you add more money you get a better chance to draw, that seem like what will happen to NM too. The top units will cost more to put your name in the hat for the draw, So now the deal was to get the EVERYDAY JOE more tags not higher tags prices now it back to the guy who has the most money getting those tags.The poor guy didn't win a thing other higher tag prices. Yep I see the WIN WIN in That.
I do wish that it turns out just like you think it will BUT how times have the State said one thing and delivery another, that is what I think will happen.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
If this passes (I hope not for the sake of our NR's) does anyone know when it will take affect? 2012? I sincerely feel for the dedicated NR's who call NM their home when it comes to hunting. I know something needed to happen to make odds a little better for the Residents but this is too much. Trust me, I want my chance to hunt (its been 4 years since I drew) but I do not want NM to turn into a state that treats the NR's like this. Can someone tell me what specific action needs to be taken to prevent this? This thread is the first I have seen in a long time that we all feel pretty strongly about for the same issue, lets work together and get this figured out.

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 

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