Scope ? for Western Wyoming

[muleymaddness]

I have a question for those of you that have hunted Western Wyoming high country mule deer / elk.

Would you go with a holdover reticle or dial hunting turrets? I didn't know how much time a guy typically has to set up on a deer. I'd like to extend my range to 500 and maybe 600. I can practice regularly out to 600 - so that's my max.

I'm looking at the Swarovski with the 4w reticle; the Leupold CDS; Leupold with B&C reticle. What max power would you recommend? And don't you think wind will pretty much always need dealt with in Wyoming? Where I live we get some calm days here and there, but I don't figure that's the case there.

Any help and input would be appreciated!

 

[440sixpack]

I've been trying lots of this stuff the last few years. I like the turret better than the reticle. range, turn and shoot.

How much do you want to spend and is weight an issue? I like the 30mm tubes but they're too heavy for me if lots of packing is involved. no question Nightforce has better tracking but they're heavy and expensive.

I've found the Leupold CDS to work well to the 600 yard line on my sporter weight rifles. in my opinion the VX3 or VX6 with a CDS would be the scope you're looking for.















Stay thirsty my friends

 

[Zeke]

I'm a little different on this one than 440sixpack.

I use the range-reticle type for hunting big game.
Seems really uncomplicated without the moving parts or chance of accidentally leaving the turret in the wrong position.

Sneak close, range, hold, shoot. Simple

The down-side with any LR scope is the temptation to attempt shots beyond reasonable and prudent range (whatever that is for YOU).

Good luck "out West",
Zeke

 

[muleymaddness]

That sounds good and what I like to hear.

I like the Swaro with the 4w reticle. And I'm fine paying that - sort of. I have a leupold now and it sure is nice not having to baby that scope and worry about getting mud on it or scratching it. I would like the Swaro but I don't know - I may just worry the whole time about screwing it up on the hunt.

I wished Leupold had the windage lines in it so if you got the CDS, you'd could dial the yardage and then have the windage lines there for reference.

 

[30Hart]

I either use a standard fine duplex in a caliber that shoots flat enough out to 600 yards (300 yard zero) to have minimal holdover or I use turrets. You shouldn't be shooting quickly at 500-600 yards anyways as you need time to dope for wind and figure in the correction for shooting at an angle. In this situation a turret is more precise for windage. In either case I have a range card taped to the buttstock of my rifles so the info is handy and I use a small wind meter.

 

[cqh1]

I dial turrets.
You could get a scope with bdc reticle and still dial the turrets if needed. This way you can try both and pick whichever you prefer.
I don't like the leupold cds because they may get inadvertently turned, especially if you shove the rifle in a scabbard on a horse. I know of someone who had this happen. The dial was turned about halfway around. He didn't know which way to turn the dial to get back to zero.

 

[BuzzH]

First off, make sure before you move forward with this, realize the nut behind the trigger is a biggg part of the LR equation. Trigger time matters.

I'll just assume that you reload...if not I sure hope you have a rifle that has legitimate MOA accuracy. Your platform, and consistency of same, is more critical than the scope.

For my money and experience, I'd skip the swaro, I'd skip all the ballistic reticles, and also the cds.

Depending on what leupold you have, I'd send it into to leupold and for $90 I'd have them install an m1 elevation turret. They can also install a windage turret...but on a hunting rifle, I would stick to the ele. turret only.

Wind is a "guess"...no turret, hash mark, or wind meter will change that fact.

I have both a windage and elevation turret on my 7RM and have used the windage turret, precisely ZERO times while hunting. IMO, when the wind gets bad in Wyoming, its just flat time to shorten range to 300 or less. I've shot a lot at the range "doping" wind, and the only conclusion I've drawn from that is, when its windy, get closer.

My other rifles sport m1 elevation turret only:

Elevation and windage turret on the 7RM, shot the bull from the flat spot right over the elevation turret near the tree on the sky-line. Just shy of 400...

When in doubt...get closer!

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-14 AT 10:13AM (MST)[p]One advantage to the m1...see the marks vertically declining from the zero? No way NOT to know which way to spin to get you back to zero.

 

[440sixpack]

I thought about the dials getting turned too, they really don't. even in a scabbard I've had no problems, and if you're worried just look and reset when you get off the horse.

I don't have much experience with the reticals so I'm not going to pretent I do. but one thing is clear, only the MOA type reticle will work . " fits these cartriges " generic excuses will not. so if you go the MOA route you're going to need a G7 rangefinger or something similar if you don't want to have to do a lot more thinking than I do.

Buzz is on track with the rifle and shooter comments, but I don't see any downside to a well designed turret with the yardage as well. nothing is more simple than turning a 400 yard shot to 4 and squeezing the trigger. the older I get the more I like simple, it works for me.












Stay thirsty my friends

 

[BuzzH]

"But I don't see any downside to a well designed turret with the yardage as well. nothing is more simple than turning a 400 yard shot to 4 and squeezing the trigger. the older I get the more I like simple, it works for me."

I don't either, until you switch the scope to a different rifle, change loads, change bullets, etc.

Then you have a worthless turret.

MOA calculations are simple.

 

[Zeke]

We all have our opinions and they are ALL valid.

On this we all agree:
Regardless of the system, practice/X3 and then practice some more.

There's zero guess-work when I line up on a target. Zero. I'm sure other feel the same way about their system.

Just make sure you're familiar enough with your system to feel the same way.

Zeke

 

[muleymaddness]

I'm going to go with the hunting turret designed specifically for my hand load. I don't switch scopes all too often so that won't be an issue.

I agree with the practice. I love to practice and that's one reason I hand load. I like to know that everything is exact on my loads. Like I said, I only have so much distance at my range. I plan on getting comfortable at those distances and go with it - no shots further than I'm comfortable with. I'm actually already comfortable out pretty good using my hold over reticle, but I like the idea of dialing it in.

As far as wind - if it's real windy, move in closer. Easy as that. I'll have the wind and drop chart taped on the rifle, as I always do, for reference.

 

[BuzzH]

Good luck, just make sure you chronograph your load and have a real bullet BC (usually not whats reported on the box)...should be fine out to 5-6.

 

[440sixpack]

My CDS turrets are dead on to 400 yards then it starts hitting lower on each taget as the distance increases. I'm not sure why, but as long as you know about how much it's off you can account for it. we're only talking a few inches.

I hope the turret Gunwerks is making for my Nightforce is a little better.



















Stay thirsty my friends

 

[Cahunter805]

440- Your cds dial is probably off because of the velocity and or BC Leupold used.
If building a specific turret I recommend shooting groups out to 800 and changing your velocity and BC to match then supply them those numbers.

M1 turret is what I like and if you want a specific turret then you can always contact Kenton and have one made.

 

[kilowatt]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-14 AT 03:51PM (MST)[p]Andy, where are you finding an 800 YD range to shoot? There sure is nothing up here in NorCal where I live. The best we have is in Ukiah at the Rifle Range (Members Only) You are allowed to set up targets at the 25,50,75,100 yard range. You can put up targets at the 150,200 and that is all.
But they have the steel pigs,rams and I think it was a deer in same locations and there are 2 large steel cylindars hanging at 415 yds. I "ranged it back in Oct" at 415Yd" with my Zeiss Rangefinder.

No one is allowed out beyond the 200Yd area at any time.

Brian
http://i44.tinypic.com/es7x8z.jpg[/IMG]

 

[kilowatt]

BUZZ.....What brand of scope you have on that rifle with your elk in above pictures?

I have a Leupold Vari-X III in a 3.5x10 I was thinking about having that done to but not sure till now. It is on a Browning SS Stalker in .280 Rem. I do not reload so I shoot only Factory loads and it seems to like Federal Ammo best.

Brian
http://i44.tinypic.com/es7x8z.jpg[/IMG]

 

[BuzzH]

Brian,

Its a leupold vxII 3-9x40 with a leupold dot reticle and the m1 turret. While I had it in for the m1, went ahead and had a dual erector springs installed as well ($25 additional). Never have had a single tracking issue.

Your scope would be a step up from mine...

Wifes scope, same as mine but with pronghorn etching:

On board her 7-08:

 

[Zeke]

Nice rig Buzz!
You've already proved it to be a killing machine.....in the right hands.
Zeke

 

[quest]

I've got that dial on my scope that Buzz has except for the wind-age dial. Ya the wind will mess you up!

 

[Cahunter805]

Brian
I have a private range at my brothers work 5 minutes from my house. To be honest it has been the cause of many more reloading supplies being bought but also my shooting skills have improved vastly. Most bullet companies have bc numbers that are inflated quite a bit and testing them by shooting is the easiest way I've found to create accurate drop charts. Berger and sierra have the closest that I've seen.

If you use jbm to build charts many of the BC are from Bryan litz and have been verified.

 

[HyoWyo]

Some are making this out to be more difficult than what it really is.
If you go with a scope that has the elevation, parallax & wind turrets, it's simple to set up your rifle from 100-1000 yards.
I highly recommend buying one that has Zero Stop. That way you find your 100 yard quicker by turning the elevation turret down till it stops then click up from there depending on the range needed.
Get a load worked up then dial your scope in based on 100 yard increments. Tape it to your rifle. This shows how many and what 'click' I need to go up to depending on distance.
I also have a cold weather zero and a hot weather zero. You'd be surprised how much your zero changes depending on temperature and elevation.

 

[TOPGUN]

HyoWyo---That's a nice way to have your little chart inside your scope cap. I was doing fine until I got down to your last two for 6 and 7. What are those corresponding marks for those last two distances, as you lost me right there because I'm not a long range guy?

 

[Cahunter805]

Topgun
I'm betting that those numbers are one full rotation on the turret plus additional clicks. Looks like his NF is the older style that is 10moa per revolution.

 

[BuzzH]

One more thing worth mentioning regarding the m1 and using MOA...you can zero your rifle for any range you want.

Before shooting turrets I used 250 yard zero...got so used to that I didn't want to deviate from that. No problem with an m1, still have the same zero and I don't have to start spinning my $hit until a critter is past 300.

I also like a little less "course" chart than the one in the scope cap posted above...starting to like a chart with 25 yard increments more and more. Kind of a fine line between being able to read it, and having enough detail for longer stuff.

I've used 50 yard increments and they're great to 500-600.

 

[440sixpack]

I guess, or you can spend $50 on a turret and ditch the notebook and duct tape.

Seems all this proves there's more than one way to skin a cat. use what works for you.
















Stay thirsty my friends

 

[HyoWyo]

>HyoWyo---That's a nice way to have
>your little chart inside your
>scope cap. I was
>doing fine until I got
>down to your last two
>for 6 and 7.
>What are those corresponding marks
>for those last two distances,
>as you lost me right
>there because I'm not a
>long range guy?


It's for one full rotation of the turret then the number to click to. I have the old style Night Force. It's easier to see the hash marks

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-14 AT 12:02PM (MST)[p]For as often as I spin my $hit on game...aint no thang.

Also, how's that cds working out for you past one revolution? Just curious?

The reason the cds works for you is because you aren't shooting much past 500. That's not that tough even with a straight 4x and holdover...

Get back to me when you start shooting out beyond 5-6 and we'll see how well you like the cds.

 

[Cahunter805]

I agree with Buzz. I use a 250 zero also and find it very effective. Don't even need to touch the turret til 350+.
Also I have a cds on one rifle. Mine is regular moa dial and I installed a zero stop. It gets me to 850 on one revolution. I find the cds spins much easier than the m1 though. With a zero stop its not to big of a deal but so eti.yes a hassle. Thus the reason I like m1 better.
Buzz have you seen the zero stops being made for the m1? They are slick and I'll be picking one up soon.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes, I have seen the zero stops...worth some thought.