2lumpy
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-14 AT 11:39PM (MST)[p]The Expo - Bad for Sportsmen thread has evolve so I'll provide my answer as to why I support SFW on this new post.
Before I do I would like to say, I believe SFW has made mistakes, I believe they will make mistakes in the future. They've said things that have offended some. They've tried things that didn't work, that cost money, so money gone but not necessarily wasted. We can go on about the failures but this is about why I believe in SFW and it's mission.
If religion offends you my might wish to skip this as it's long and might disgust you.
Here we go:
If I go to hell for using this comparison, I'm blaming you guys on MM.
Before I start let me predict an anticipated response from some people. Some will say that I think SFW and it's leadership are a kin to my religion and that I'm a fool for thinking SFW and it's members and participators are anything like my religious leaders. Let's say right up front, ?I don't!?
I'm using the analogy as a way to explain way I support SWF, not because I hold it anywhere as near or dear as I do my religious beliefs. However, both organizations have ideological and philosophical foundations. One is the ideology of life and death, the other is the ideology of preserving and growing sport hunting and fishing. There is a whopping difference.
I'll begin with my religion.
We, who are members of my Church, claim we are Christians, others claim we are not.
Some claim we are a religious cult. Members of my Church find that hurtful and attempt to demonstrate that we believe in the same Jesus Christ as they do, but they still claim we don't.
I go to my Church and I look around at the people that are there. I see doctors, lawyers, plumbers, businessmen/women, government employees, engineers, truck drivers, contractors, oil company employees, farmers/ranchers, students, senior citizens, widows, newly weds, divorcees, salesmen, unemployed, ambitious, lazy, skinny, fat, short, tall, sickly, robust, etc. etc. There people look like everybody else I see on the street, on the highway, in New York, LA, Las Vegas, Florida, Seattle, or Salt Lake City. Some are genius level intelligent; some are illiterate and can barely read. Some happy, some troubled, some proud and loud, some humble and polite. They look like a cross section of America to me. However, others see them as odd, different, strange, scary, brain-washed, stupid, deceived, etc. etc.
Some in my Church have incomes of a 100 million dollars or more a year, some live on the smallest social security checks the Federal Government pays out. Each member of my Church is asked, not required, but asked to pay a tithing of 10% to the Church, to help Gods kingdom grow. Many members of my Church attempt to pay the 10%. The individual the has an income of 100 million donates 10 million to the Church (every year that his income equal 100 million) The widow, living on $790.00 a month donates $79.00 a month. Everyone else donates some where in between. As the number of people in my Church has grown, the total amount the Church receives has grown as well. The Church leadership receives, literally, millions of dollars a month to help grow the kingdom of God.
My Church is tax exempt. Pays no taxes. Over the years my Church has acquired and/or purchased for profit businesses that are taxable and the profits from these businesses keep a separate set of financial records, according to United States taxation regulations. The profits of the businesses are used for two things, to grow the business and to grow the kingdom of God.
Some small number of my Church members are paid for their labor, almost all members, when they do physical work, labor as volunteers and receive no pay.
My Church continues to grow in membership, however, every year some people leave the Church. Some leave because they change their opinion of our teachings (our ideology). Some leave because they have a personal disagreement with some other member, or in some cases they have a disagreement with one or more of the leaders of my Church. Some members leave my Church over money, believing the money that's been donate or earned from the for profit business is not being used properly. Some leave my Church because, as you can imagine, it has become a holder are huge assets and the leadership control the these assets and management as they see fit. The general membership does not provide a great deal or should I say the general membership provides very little input into how these assets are used and managed. While I've never heard of any member that has asked to see the financial records of my Church, I would believe that some have and I would also be very surprised if my Church?s leadership is forth coming with any financial information, other than what is required by State and Federal law in the process of paying taxes on the for profit businesses. Yet, these funds all come from member donations.
The majority it of the population of the country know little or nothing about my Church and could careless to know anything about it or what we do or don't do. For those that are interested, there seem to be two kinds of critics of my Church, those people who have never been members, who observer us from some distance, at least they view us outside the organization. Some of these people believe they have watched enough and learned enough by listening to current members and from members that have left my Church, to know enough about us to form and opinion. Some of these people dislike and mistrust us and believe there is good reason to ?stay clear?, others think we're a lot like them, they think we are mostly normal people, doing what they think is best for the world and the kingdom of God, basically just living normal lives, but would not care to become a member or have the least bit of involvement of my Church, for a million different reasons.
The other group are people that have at some time in the past been a member of my Church. Not all, but a few of these previous members are angry, for any number of reasons. Some left over how the leadership spends the Churches money, some over procedural systems, some over personal relationships, some have developed a difference in ideology, some left over changes with my Church, some left because my Church didn't change, etc. Some past member believe it is their duty, or their responsibility, or their need to settle a score, to expose my Church and protect others from getting sucked into the vortex. Some passed members say my Church has changed from it's beginnings and it's lost it's original mission which was to build God?s kingdom and it has become nothing more than a large tax exempt corporation, used the money donated by brain-wasted, ignorant, foolish, backward members to pay for the high and fancy life styles of it's leadership. The mission of these folks is to protect the innocent members and non-member from the what they truly believe are the evils of my Church.
As a member of my Church and as I observe the other members, that I mentioned earlier in my Church, the bankers, the librarians, the stock brokers, the scientists etc. they just don't seem to be brain-wasted, stupid, dumb, greedy, power hungry, etc. etc. to me. They just seem like people trying to live their lives and help in the mission of my Church.
Now if you'll allow me, I'll change this to say ?SFW? rather than ?my Church?, etc.
We, who are members of SFW, claim we are interested in wildlife conservation organization of sportsmen members who are interested in preserving and increasing healthy, populations of wildlife, others claim we are not.
Some claim we are only interested in trophy hunting for the wealthy. Members of SFW find that hurtful and attempt to demonstrate that we believe in preserving and increasing healthy, populations of wildlife, as they do, but they still claim we don't.
I go to SFW gathering and I look around at the people that are there. I see doctors, lawyers, plumbers, businessmen/women, government employees, engineers, truck drivers, contractors, oil company employees, farmers/ranchers, students, senior citizens, widows, newly weds, divorcees, salesmen, unemployed, ambitious, lazy, skinny, fat, short, tall, sickly, robust, etc. etc. There people look like everybody else I see on the street, on the highway, in New York, LA, Las Vegas, Florida, Seattle, or Salt Lake City. Some are genius level intelligent; some are illiterate and can barely read. Some happy, some troubled, some proud and loud, some humble and polite. They look like a cross section of America to me. However, others see them as elitists, cool-aid drinkers, manipulative, crafty, cunning, slick, zombies, brain-washed, stupid, deceived, want-to-bes, etc. etc.
Some in SFW have incomes of a 100 million dollars or more a year, some live on the smallest social security checks the Federal Government pays out. Each member of SFW is asked, not required, but asked to donate to SFW?s mission, to help improve and preserve hunting and fishing. Many members of SFW attempt to do more than pay the $35.00 membership. Some individuals give SFW millions. Other can only afford or only want to pay the $35 membership. Everyone else donates some where in between. As the number of people in SFW has grown, the total amount SFW receives has grown as well. The SFW leadership receives, literally, millions of dollars a year to help grow and preserve wildlife.
As I understand it, SFW is tax exempt. Pays no taxes. Again, as I understand it, over the years SFW has acquired and/or purchased for-profit businesses that are taxable and the profits from these businesses keeps a separate set of financial records, according to United States taxation regulations. The profits of the businesses are used for two things, to grow the business and to grow SFW?s mission.
Some small number of SFW members are paid for their labor, almost all members, when they do physical work, labor as volunteers and receive no pay.
SFW continues to grow in membership, however, every year some people leave SFW. Some leave because they change their opinion of our teachings (our ideology). Some leave because they have a personal disagreement with some other member, or in some cases they have a disagreement with one or more of the leaders of SFW. Some members leave SFW over money, believing the money that's been donated or earned from the for-profit business is not being used properly. Some leave SFW because, as you can imagine, it has become a holder are huge assets and the leadership control the these assets and management as they see fit. The general membership, through local SFW Chapters does provide input into how these assets are used and managed. While some members have asked to see the financial records of SFW, I would be very surprised if SFW?s leadership is forth coming with any financial information, other than what is required by State and Federal law in the process of paying taxes on the for profit businesses. Yet, these funds all come from member donations.
The majority it of the sportsmen in the country know little or nothing about SFW and could careless to know anything about it or what we do or don't do. For those that are interested, there seem to be two kinds of critics of SFW, those people who have never been members, who observer us from some distance, at least they view us outside the organization. Some of these people believe they have watched enough and learned enough by listening to current members and from members that have left SFW, to know enough about us to form an opinion. Some of these people dislike and mistrust us and believe there is good reason to ?stay clear?, others think we're a lot like them, they think we are mostly normal people, doing what they think is best for hunting and fishing, basically just living normal lives, but would not care to become a member or have the least bit of involvement of SFW, for a million different reasons.
The other group, are people that have, at some time in the past, been a member of SFW. Not all, but a few of these previous members are angry, for any of a number of reasons. Some left over how the leadership spends SFW?s money, some over procedural systems, some over personal relationships, some over a difference in ideology, some left over changes with SFW, some left because SFW didn't change, etc. Some past members believe it is their duty, or their responsibility, or their need, to settle a score, to expose SFW and protect others from getting sucked into the vortex. Some passed members say SFW has changed from it's beginnings and it's lost it's original mission which was to grow more wildlife and hunting/fishing opportunity for everyone and it has become nothing more than a large tax exempt corporation, used the money donated by brain-wasted, ignorant, foolish, backward members to pay for the high and fancy life styles of it's leadership. The mission of these folks is to protect the innocent members and non-member from what they truly believe are the evils of SFW.
As a member of SFW and as I observe it's other members, that I mentioned earlier in SFW, the bankers, the librarians, the stock brokers, the scientists etc. they just do not seem to be brain-wasted, stupid, dumb, greedy, power hungry, etc. etc. to me. They just seem like people trying to live their lives and help in the mission of SFW.
DC
Before I do I would like to say, I believe SFW has made mistakes, I believe they will make mistakes in the future. They've said things that have offended some. They've tried things that didn't work, that cost money, so money gone but not necessarily wasted. We can go on about the failures but this is about why I believe in SFW and it's mission.
If religion offends you my might wish to skip this as it's long and might disgust you.
Here we go:
If I go to hell for using this comparison, I'm blaming you guys on MM.
Before I start let me predict an anticipated response from some people. Some will say that I think SFW and it's leadership are a kin to my religion and that I'm a fool for thinking SFW and it's members and participators are anything like my religious leaders. Let's say right up front, ?I don't!?
I'm using the analogy as a way to explain way I support SWF, not because I hold it anywhere as near or dear as I do my religious beliefs. However, both organizations have ideological and philosophical foundations. One is the ideology of life and death, the other is the ideology of preserving and growing sport hunting and fishing. There is a whopping difference.
I'll begin with my religion.
We, who are members of my Church, claim we are Christians, others claim we are not.
Some claim we are a religious cult. Members of my Church find that hurtful and attempt to demonstrate that we believe in the same Jesus Christ as they do, but they still claim we don't.
I go to my Church and I look around at the people that are there. I see doctors, lawyers, plumbers, businessmen/women, government employees, engineers, truck drivers, contractors, oil company employees, farmers/ranchers, students, senior citizens, widows, newly weds, divorcees, salesmen, unemployed, ambitious, lazy, skinny, fat, short, tall, sickly, robust, etc. etc. There people look like everybody else I see on the street, on the highway, in New York, LA, Las Vegas, Florida, Seattle, or Salt Lake City. Some are genius level intelligent; some are illiterate and can barely read. Some happy, some troubled, some proud and loud, some humble and polite. They look like a cross section of America to me. However, others see them as odd, different, strange, scary, brain-washed, stupid, deceived, etc. etc.
Some in my Church have incomes of a 100 million dollars or more a year, some live on the smallest social security checks the Federal Government pays out. Each member of my Church is asked, not required, but asked to pay a tithing of 10% to the Church, to help Gods kingdom grow. Many members of my Church attempt to pay the 10%. The individual the has an income of 100 million donates 10 million to the Church (every year that his income equal 100 million) The widow, living on $790.00 a month donates $79.00 a month. Everyone else donates some where in between. As the number of people in my Church has grown, the total amount the Church receives has grown as well. The Church leadership receives, literally, millions of dollars a month to help grow the kingdom of God.
My Church is tax exempt. Pays no taxes. Over the years my Church has acquired and/or purchased for profit businesses that are taxable and the profits from these businesses keep a separate set of financial records, according to United States taxation regulations. The profits of the businesses are used for two things, to grow the business and to grow the kingdom of God.
Some small number of my Church members are paid for their labor, almost all members, when they do physical work, labor as volunteers and receive no pay.
My Church continues to grow in membership, however, every year some people leave the Church. Some leave because they change their opinion of our teachings (our ideology). Some leave because they have a personal disagreement with some other member, or in some cases they have a disagreement with one or more of the leaders of my Church. Some members leave my Church over money, believing the money that's been donate or earned from the for profit business is not being used properly. Some leave my Church because, as you can imagine, it has become a holder are huge assets and the leadership control the these assets and management as they see fit. The general membership does not provide a great deal or should I say the general membership provides very little input into how these assets are used and managed. While I've never heard of any member that has asked to see the financial records of my Church, I would believe that some have and I would also be very surprised if my Church?s leadership is forth coming with any financial information, other than what is required by State and Federal law in the process of paying taxes on the for profit businesses. Yet, these funds all come from member donations.
The majority it of the population of the country know little or nothing about my Church and could careless to know anything about it or what we do or don't do. For those that are interested, there seem to be two kinds of critics of my Church, those people who have never been members, who observer us from some distance, at least they view us outside the organization. Some of these people believe they have watched enough and learned enough by listening to current members and from members that have left my Church, to know enough about us to form and opinion. Some of these people dislike and mistrust us and believe there is good reason to ?stay clear?, others think we're a lot like them, they think we are mostly normal people, doing what they think is best for the world and the kingdom of God, basically just living normal lives, but would not care to become a member or have the least bit of involvement of my Church, for a million different reasons.
The other group are people that have at some time in the past been a member of my Church. Not all, but a few of these previous members are angry, for any number of reasons. Some left over how the leadership spends the Churches money, some over procedural systems, some over personal relationships, some have developed a difference in ideology, some left over changes with my Church, some left because my Church didn't change, etc. Some past member believe it is their duty, or their responsibility, or their need to settle a score, to expose my Church and protect others from getting sucked into the vortex. Some passed members say my Church has changed from it's beginnings and it's lost it's original mission which was to build God?s kingdom and it has become nothing more than a large tax exempt corporation, used the money donated by brain-wasted, ignorant, foolish, backward members to pay for the high and fancy life styles of it's leadership. The mission of these folks is to protect the innocent members and non-member from the what they truly believe are the evils of my Church.
As a member of my Church and as I observe the other members, that I mentioned earlier in my Church, the bankers, the librarians, the stock brokers, the scientists etc. they just don't seem to be brain-wasted, stupid, dumb, greedy, power hungry, etc. etc. to me. They just seem like people trying to live their lives and help in the mission of my Church.
Now if you'll allow me, I'll change this to say ?SFW? rather than ?my Church?, etc.
We, who are members of SFW, claim we are interested in wildlife conservation organization of sportsmen members who are interested in preserving and increasing healthy, populations of wildlife, others claim we are not.
Some claim we are only interested in trophy hunting for the wealthy. Members of SFW find that hurtful and attempt to demonstrate that we believe in preserving and increasing healthy, populations of wildlife, as they do, but they still claim we don't.
I go to SFW gathering and I look around at the people that are there. I see doctors, lawyers, plumbers, businessmen/women, government employees, engineers, truck drivers, contractors, oil company employees, farmers/ranchers, students, senior citizens, widows, newly weds, divorcees, salesmen, unemployed, ambitious, lazy, skinny, fat, short, tall, sickly, robust, etc. etc. There people look like everybody else I see on the street, on the highway, in New York, LA, Las Vegas, Florida, Seattle, or Salt Lake City. Some are genius level intelligent; some are illiterate and can barely read. Some happy, some troubled, some proud and loud, some humble and polite. They look like a cross section of America to me. However, others see them as elitists, cool-aid drinkers, manipulative, crafty, cunning, slick, zombies, brain-washed, stupid, deceived, want-to-bes, etc. etc.
Some in SFW have incomes of a 100 million dollars or more a year, some live on the smallest social security checks the Federal Government pays out. Each member of SFW is asked, not required, but asked to donate to SFW?s mission, to help improve and preserve hunting and fishing. Many members of SFW attempt to do more than pay the $35.00 membership. Some individuals give SFW millions. Other can only afford or only want to pay the $35 membership. Everyone else donates some where in between. As the number of people in SFW has grown, the total amount SFW receives has grown as well. The SFW leadership receives, literally, millions of dollars a year to help grow and preserve wildlife.
As I understand it, SFW is tax exempt. Pays no taxes. Again, as I understand it, over the years SFW has acquired and/or purchased for-profit businesses that are taxable and the profits from these businesses keeps a separate set of financial records, according to United States taxation regulations. The profits of the businesses are used for two things, to grow the business and to grow SFW?s mission.
Some small number of SFW members are paid for their labor, almost all members, when they do physical work, labor as volunteers and receive no pay.
SFW continues to grow in membership, however, every year some people leave SFW. Some leave because they change their opinion of our teachings (our ideology). Some leave because they have a personal disagreement with some other member, or in some cases they have a disagreement with one or more of the leaders of SFW. Some members leave SFW over money, believing the money that's been donated or earned from the for-profit business is not being used properly. Some leave SFW because, as you can imagine, it has become a holder are huge assets and the leadership control the these assets and management as they see fit. The general membership, through local SFW Chapters does provide input into how these assets are used and managed. While some members have asked to see the financial records of SFW, I would be very surprised if SFW?s leadership is forth coming with any financial information, other than what is required by State and Federal law in the process of paying taxes on the for profit businesses. Yet, these funds all come from member donations.
The majority it of the sportsmen in the country know little or nothing about SFW and could careless to know anything about it or what we do or don't do. For those that are interested, there seem to be two kinds of critics of SFW, those people who have never been members, who observer us from some distance, at least they view us outside the organization. Some of these people believe they have watched enough and learned enough by listening to current members and from members that have left SFW, to know enough about us to form an opinion. Some of these people dislike and mistrust us and believe there is good reason to ?stay clear?, others think we're a lot like them, they think we are mostly normal people, doing what they think is best for hunting and fishing, basically just living normal lives, but would not care to become a member or have the least bit of involvement of SFW, for a million different reasons.
The other group, are people that have, at some time in the past, been a member of SFW. Not all, but a few of these previous members are angry, for any of a number of reasons. Some left over how the leadership spends SFW?s money, some over procedural systems, some over personal relationships, some over a difference in ideology, some left over changes with SFW, some left because SFW didn't change, etc. Some past members believe it is their duty, or their responsibility, or their need, to settle a score, to expose SFW and protect others from getting sucked into the vortex. Some passed members say SFW has changed from it's beginnings and it's lost it's original mission which was to grow more wildlife and hunting/fishing opportunity for everyone and it has become nothing more than a large tax exempt corporation, used the money donated by brain-wasted, ignorant, foolish, backward members to pay for the high and fancy life styles of it's leadership. The mission of these folks is to protect the innocent members and non-member from what they truly believe are the evils of SFW.
As a member of SFW and as I observe it's other members, that I mentioned earlier in SFW, the bankers, the librarians, the stock brokers, the scientists etc. they just do not seem to be brain-wasted, stupid, dumb, greedy, power hungry, etc. etc. to me. They just seem like people trying to live their lives and help in the mission of SFW.
DC
