SFW yay or nay

I like how one SFW member says he left RMEF, but then says he does not care what we think about them and none of them think about us. Obviously.LOL

RMEF is transparant about what goes on more than any other organization and asked for all others to do the same.
Guess that is a reason to leave them huh LUMP-SFW?

RMEF does a ton of work for the future of "ALL" hunters be them rich or poor and you left because?...No future kickbacks, no special cutting to the front of line treatment or what?

RMEF has an open book on where it's funds go and the percentages where members money is spent. SFW does not.

Yes these threads get old but it's best to inform others no matter rich,poor,young or old of wolves trying to destroy our future(SFW).
You said so yourself (Lump) you and SFW do not care what we say or do.
That says a lot.
 
TheKnack, It is interesting what you say about RMEF and how transparent they are. Are they not selling the same tags, conservation tags, that come from the same auction where SFW, MDF, and the other groups get theres? IF they are selling those tags, are not those with money cutting in front of the line? Not sure what you mean by kickbacks but did not RMEF say that 100 percent of the money they received from selling those tags go back to the DWR? I guess that is true 100 percent of the 90 percent have gone back to the DWR. The 10 percent that they keep, just like SFW and MDF and the other groups, they add to their income just like the other groups do.
 
Muley_73 said

"ie, 1.4 million dollars donated to SFW on the Saturday night of the banquet. Was this person a fool? Only a fool would donate 1.4 million dollars to a sinking ship organization. Those that truly know, know. They understand and are will to continue to give support. Again I'll take true results over interweb banter and polls."

I have heard from a very good source that this 1.4m "donation" was merely a payment for 2 hunting camps up north and all of this was just a typical SFW whitewash.
 
Jm77, You must have apretty good source. True it was just a donation. SFW did not know this was going to happen this way. But the who cares. It was to help out grow an organization that a very smart business man feels is on the move and great for hunting and fishing. He did not get his money by being stupid. He knew a great organization that promotes hunting and fishing and works for the people in the state. All people.
 
>Muley_73 said
>
>"ie, 1.4 million dollars donated to
>SFW on the Saturday night
>of the banquet. Was this
>person a fool? Only a
>fool would donate 1.4 million
>dollars to a sinking ship
>organization. Those that truly know,
>know. They understand and are
>will to continue to give
>support. Again I'll take true
>results over interweb banter and
>polls."
>
>I have heard from a very
>good source that this 1.4m
>"donation" was merely a payment
>for 2 hunting camps up
>north and all of this
>was just a typical SFW
>whitewash.


***jm77---That's just another example of the smoke and mirror garbage this group can come up with and is very similar to the bigshots posing for a picture showing how big a "donation" check they're giving back to their DWR compadres when it wasn't theirs to begin with, LOL! Now also notice how Birdman has changed the subject to diss RMEF and is talking about the auction tags when all along this discussion has been about the huge number of welfare tags taken from the average guy's pool of tags that's profit goes directly to SFW/MDF with no transparency as to where it all goes. Birdman talks about "being in the Know" and doesn't even know the salaries of the top guys. I wonder if he knows DKP started BGF as a "for pofit" offshoot of SFW. BGF got that $600,000 and Lord knows how much of it has gone to him and BB as "consultant fees", LOL! Hopefully the more this stuff is kept in the forefront the more people that will find out what those two are really about.
 
Topgun, I know exactly how much they make. It has never been a secret for those that ask in the right way. Not by those that want to use it against them. It is not what you think and I know that I would not put in the time and do the things that they do for what they get paid. Second, I know Don started BGF. It still does not have anything to do with SFW. He started Full Curl with Karl Malone and that does have ties to SFW.
Not trying to spin away from the subject, just looking at post 100 talking about RMEF. They did not do what they said they would do unless they decided to pitch in the money later. They earned the money, They can keep it.
You mentioned BGF and the $600,000 and you wondered how much went to Dom and BB. Who is BB? As I said before, BGF and SFW are totally separate and the only ties are they were started by Don Peay. Know I am sure you will continue to say they are the same but they are not. THAT I KNOW. Now tell me I am crazy. I am ready.
 
>Jm77, You must
>have apretty good source.
> True it was just
>a donation. SFW did
>not know this was going
>to happen this way.
>But the who cares.
>It was to help out
>grow an organization that a
>very smart business man feels
>is on the move and
>great for hunting and fishing.
> He did not get
>his money by being stupid.
> He knew a
>great organization that promotes hunting
>and fishing and works for
>the people in the state.
> All people.


No it was not a donation, it was a payment! And if SFW didn't know it was going to happen this way, why is it just coming out now?
 
jm77. What was the payment for? It was a donation. That was what it was. No payment. Why would he be making a payment. Why did he owe SFW 1.4 million? He didn't. Just a 100 percent donation.
 
Lets see, 1.4 million, and 27% goes to on ground projects, the rest to Peay, and Benson. So,$380,000 to wildlife, and $1,020,000 to Peay, and Benson. They are Laffin all the way to the Bank.



I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-14 AT 09:15PM (MST)[p]>Topgun, I know exactly how
>much they make. It
>has never been a secret
>for those that ask in
>the right way. Not
>by those that want to
>use it against them.
>It is not what you
>think and I know that
>I would not put in
>the time and do the
>things that they do for
>what they get paid.
>Second, I know Don
>started BGF. It still
>does not have anything to
>do with SFW. He
>started Full Curl with Karl
>Malone and that does have
>ties to SFW.
> Not trying
>to spin away from the
>subject, just looking at
>post 100 talking about RMEF.
> They did not do
>what they said they would
>do unless they decided to
>pitch in the money later.
>They earned the money,
>They can keep it.
> You mentioned
>BGF and the $600,000 and
>you wondered how much went
>to Dom and BB.
>Who is BB? As
>I said before, BGF and
>SFW are totally separate and
>the only ties are they
>were started by Don Peay.
> Know I am sure
>you will continue to say
>they are the same but
>they are not. THAT
>I KNOW. Now tell
>me I am crazy.
>I am ready.


***So I'm now asking politely how much they make according to the books, including consulting fees and any other monies given for their expenses? BB is the initials for Byron Bateman, your Pres. I actually made a typo and it was supposed to be RB for Ryan Benson of BGF. Yes, all that money went to BGF, but who went to the Legislature and got it? Answer---None other than the DON, who is certainly involved with both organizations that are intertwined, even though they are technically separate entities and I've told you that before! Your Legislators also were not all in favor of giving those big payments to BGF upfront and started questioning what was being done with it. You do remember the audit that was then done don't you? Remember the one that said the books were so screwed up that they couldn't tell where the money went?! The paperwork BGF then put out trying to show they had used it properly was a real sham and they didn't even have a lobbyist in DC at the time to do anything at that level regarding wolves or anything else! You also know darn well or have an awful poor memory in that RMEF said they would give back 100% of their profits and called for all organizations to be transparent like they are with their money. They also aren't siphoning a ton of tags from the general pools, but are auctioning off a very limited amount of Governor tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-14 AT 09:45PM (MST)[p]4100, Not a penny went to Don Peay or Ryan Benson. Good try.
Topgun, They money that those guys make has been on the Web Sight before and you can look it up yourself. I will not say for a reason. It is between them and SFW. If you remember right, Troy said exactly what they made. I do not tell other people what someone makes. Not my business. Now for RMEF. I know what they said. Like I said, they gave back 100% of the 90%. When the audit came up with the results of the three year program in year one, they had turned in 90% and kept 10% Now if they had a change of heart since December, they have kept the 10%. That is in Utah. I made it a personal quest to see if anyone group turned in all the money. Not singling out anyone. As for the minimal amount of tags that they take, there are seven groups in the three year program, RMEF takes the third most tags. They take all the tags that they are allowed. The only tags that were left over were a few cow elk tags. They were left because the money from the groups ran out. I guess you really should not know how it all works being out of State. I know I did not know until the DWR invited me to the tag offering and I took them up to see how it all worked. I am sure not many know how it all works. Then there is a yearly program that takes in smaller groups.
 
Lumpy, Couldn't read all of your books, so I just read your response 69 without reading any of the others. Man you're trying to skip down the Sevier River, by Rock Candy Mountain, with waders on and it just ain't working. Back up and take some breaths, settle down. We all know you're passionate about sfw and they do good, but now lets quit peeing down a gopher hole. Pheasants - no good for the money being spent. Sheep - we have spent enough to just help a hand full of hunters. DEER NEED THE HELP so get off your butt and concentrate on "just" deer.

You're a good orator, so why are you here with this dribble trying to protect SFW when it doesn't amount to a pinch.
 
cannonball,

I'm gonna stay polite cause I know you like to jab and you and Lumpy go way way way back. But I shouldn't.
 
Cody, Your Dad's a lot better jabbing than I am, but every once in a while I have to get him jumping on one foot and then the other or he goes off on a tangent.
 
>jm77. What was the payment
>for? It was
>a donation. That was
>what it was. No
>payment. Why would he
>be making a payment.
>Why did he owe SFW
>1.4 million? He didn't.
> Just a 100 percent
>donation.


Did you read the post Birdman? #102 Payment for two hunting camps up in Canada.
 
In post 90 Birdman says??

?To give you an idea how wrong some of the things that are being said on here, did you know that BGF and SFW are to totally different groups but do work together. The $300,000 dollars goes straight to BGF. Non to SFW.?

In post 106 Birdman says?..

?You mentioned BGF and the $600,000 and you wondered how much went to Dom and BB. Who is BB? As I said before, BGF and SFW are totally separate and the only ties are they were started by Don Peay. Know I am sure you will continue to say they are the same but they are not. THAT I KNOW. Now tell me I am crazy. I am ready.?

Honestly Birdman, you talk in so many circles you must be in a constant state of dizziness?. Seriously man, you take a stand to claim there is little connection between groups and then a few posts later admit they were founded by the same guy. That is a CONNECTION. That shell game talk is why 60+ guys on this thread give SFW the big thumbs down. I try to comment on ideas rather than people but your dodgy posts really irritate me.

Noone cares how DP or SFW collect their checks from public wildlife assets, we simply care that they DO collect checks from public assets. Whether the money flows through a side business, lobbying fees, consulting fees or whatever, they are anti-public hunter and profiting from tags largely owned by public hunters. Marketing expo tags is like selling Girl Scout cookies, all you need to do is put on the uniform and stack the merchandise on a folding table. There is no substitution for a thin mint cookie or a premium elk tag with a 365 day season. At least girl scout cookies are considered fair market value and the buyer cannot write them off on their taxes. Not the case with auction tags at the expo, those are tax deductible. I guess girl scout cookies must be harder to sell than an auction tag.

Anyone that claims selling or auctioning the cream of the wildlife tags is some kind of marketing feat is a total moron. Being able to market these tags helps to market other things, the privilege of being the marketer IS the compensation. Collecting a 1% or 5% or 10% cut is criminal in my opinion. If this were a legit business SFW would be paying the DWR a commission above the sales price for supplying the party favors for their expo.

SFW is like a graffiti artist, you have to stay vigilant and constantly clean up his mess or the neighborhood will slowly turn into a ghetto. Like SFW, the graffiti artist is delusional enough to consider his work ?art?, despite the overwhelming public opinion that he is actually blighting society. States should start cutting off public welfare tags like hardware stores lock up the spray paint from the baggy britches crowd.

As for the point of this thread. I live in Arizona and didn't know diddly about SFW until they snuck into my state and tried to pull their expo auction crap here a few years ago. I couldn't believe a faction of my hunting brothers could be so greedy and morally vacant. SFW is about business, not hunting. I can assure you Arizona is not an SFW friendly place.

Put me down for a big NO
 
Bird- How many tags does SFW pimp? Comparing it to what RMEF does is laughable as well as your comment about SFW and RMEF keeping the same amount of the proceeds.
RMEF called SFW out and instead of showing SFW had nothing to hide to them and even your own members on where the money goes........SFW did "(nothing)".
Buying up private ranches for select members to hunt on and cutting in line is all SFW is about.
SFW gloats about pheasants and now news of a private aquisition of a few hunting camps for a select few surfaces in Canada?
Sad thing is most of us here probably believe it and you know why.
 
Javihammer, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. One thing about this conversation. The thing that makes you right, is the same thing that makes me right. It is what we believe. Myself and those that follow SFW believe what SFW is doing is great. They are behind SFW. Those that do not like SFW are against SFW and do not like what they are doing. Now what makes which group right? It is their belief which ever side you are on. So tell me, why are you and your group right? Just because what you believe? Part of like is disagreeing on different things. That is what makes things happen. By the way, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife was against what Sportsmen for Wildlife in Arizona was doing. They said so publically. Why would the go against Arizona SFW? Because other than the SFW they are totally different groups not affiliated in any way. That is a FACT.
Now everyone on here have a great day. Keep up the good work that you are doing. lets keep wildlife going. As for now I am finished with this thread. Done with the disagreements, we will just have to disagree to disagree. After all, I think I am right and you will never convince me different.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-14 AT 11:23AM (MST)[p]>Javihammer, I guess we will
>have to agree to disagree.
> One thing about this
>conversation. The thing that
>makes you right, is the
>same thing that makes me
>right. It is what
>we believe. Myself and
>those that follow SFW believe
>what SFW is doing is
>great. They are behind
>SFW. Those that do
>not like SFW are against
>SFW and do not like
>what they are doing.
>Now what makes which group
>right? It is their
>belief which ever side you
>are on. So tell
>me, why are you and
>your group right? Just
>because what you believe?
>Part of like is disagreeing
>on different things. That
>is what makes things happen.
> By the way, Sportsmen
>for Fish and Wildlife was
>against what Sportsmen for Wildlife
>in Arizona was doing.
>They said so publically.
>Why would the go against
>Arizona SFW? Because other
>than the SFW they are
>totally different groups not affiliated
>in any way. That is
>a FACT.
> Now everyone
>on here have a great
>day. Keep up the
>good work that you are
>doing. lets keep wildlife
>going. As for now
>I am finished with this
>thread. Done with the
>disagreements, we will just
>have to disagree to disagree.
> After all, I think
>I am right and you
>will never convince me different.
>

***Yea right, just like none of the rest of the state chapters have anything remotely to do with the main Chapter in Utah, LOL! You are not only naive, but are so brainwahsed it's unreal!Again, we are not disagreeing with what you blue collar workers are doing on the ground. It's the hierarchy and the scheme they devised to get their money that is disgusting. What can't you understand about that? For you to defend that system does not speak well of your ethics if you think scamming people, including the $600,000+ they have scammed from the general taxpayers of Utah, is okay really sucks! You also haven't responded to a single fact to dispute what has been pointed out like the audit, DKP asking for the money for BGF even though you say he has nothing to do with BGF, they are comptletely separate, etc. However, everything you state is "FACT" because you just know it is, LOL! Are you aware that they set BGF up as a LLC "for profit" business? Look it up as it's right on the internet for your perusal. I have no idea why a couple news articles refer to it as a nonprofit, but I guess since it's an offshoot of SFW that they are assuming so and you know where that gets you! That actually was a brilliant move DKP and RB did to found and set that up that way in order to have a place where they can move money around and take whatever they need for their own use undeer the guise of it being "consulting" and/or "lobbying" fees. They have things right where they want them so even that state audit couldn't come up with anything concrete because the books are so bad. It's probably legal taxwise though and complies with IRS rules the way they do it, but it dang sure is't ethical.
 
Birdman,

If SFW is so great, why are the Wyoming Chapters folding like cheap lawn chairs?

Seems like a constant theme...no accounting of funds. Maybe Wharff should have asked you for some numbers...

SFW.jpg
 
>Birdman,
>
>If SFW is so great, why
>are the Wyoming Chapters folding
>like cheap lawn chairs?
>
>Seems like a constant theme...no accounting
>of funds. Maybe Wharff should
>have asked you for some
>numbers...
>
>
SFW.jpg



***Cripes BuzzH, you of all people should know that the chapters have nothing to do with the main one in Utah! Why? because birdman says he knows and it's fact, LOL!
 
Glad the Utah group doesnt have anything to do with the AK, NM, WY, ID, MT, etc. chapters either.

Funny how grant money in the 10's of thousands was given to all of the State Chapters.

There obviously is no ties back to Utah.

What a joke.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-14 AT 07:48PM (MST)[p]>Glad the Utah group doesnt have
>anything to do with the
>AK, NM, WY, ID, MT,
>etc. chapters either.
>
>Funny how grant money in the
>10's of thousands was given
>to all of the State
>Chapters.
>
>There obviously is no ties back
>to Utah.
>
>What a joke.


***That was the first thing I noticed after the $13,500 a month that DKP was making, but Birdman says he's no longer involved with SFW, although I'll bet he's getting "consulting fees" that are as good or better! What's real interesting is that's what they actually show they're making in salary. How much of that other unaccounted for 1/2 million in expenses went into pockets and there are other lines that don't really differentiate exactly where the money went either. A joke is right!!!
 
Information comes out and suddenly all I hear is crickets as SFW that is usually so vocal exits the building.

By 2016 I predict SFW will be no more....But beware what other spinoffs they try to come slithering back as.

Do not be shy about getting involved in helping good organizations that are up front on where your money and effort goes. There really are fellow men and women who want to preserve (everyones) ability to enjoy our great outdoors.
 
Peay-to-Play Tag Pimp - I want your tags

Hey hey...........Don't be hatin!


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