Shed hunting NM

[throwfar]

I was reading on a FB thread which mentioned a BLM firefighter out of Beaverhead saw some professional shed hunters from Utah complete with dogs, mules, horses, and ATVs camped out for the month of March while the Utah season was shut down and pull out over 9000 pounds of antlers.
I am fairly torn about this, on one hand it's federal land so technically they have the right just as everyone from our great country has the right to look for sheds. However I feel like this is ridiculous, these guys come to our state and push around all the wildlife for a month to make a huge profit. Thoughts?

 

[Bowdeadly]

9000 lbs of Antler out of Beaverhead area is a stretch. Iv only seen a handfhandfull of bulls in that area. Lol. I don't like it either but hey it's state land and anyone can come especially out of staters that think NM gave them the chinga when we changed the draw quota for them. Their only chance of getting a Gila bull is to come look for sheds. I much rather have then come and get sheds then get 40 percent of the tags.

 

[Bolt Tripper]

>9000 lbs of Antler out of
>Beaverhead area is a stretch.
>Iv only seen a handfhandfull
>of bulls in that area.
>Lol. I don't like it
>either but hey it's state
>land and anyone can come
>especially out of staters that
>think NM gave them the
>chinga when we changed the
>draw quota for them. Their
>only chance of getting a
>Gila bull is to come
>look for sheds. I much
>rather have then come and
>get sheds then get 40
>percent of the tags.

Maybe they are using the $$$ to buy their landowner bull tags which you can no longer afford because of said quota/demand?

 

[hank4elk]

...I musta missed when NR got 40% of the tags.
The market antler racket ##### has got to stop,IMHO total BS.
Give the critters a break I say,sometime.

 

[bonecollector777]

I'll just be the first to say 9000 pounds of antler out of anywhere is a ridiculous amount of antler. I've "heard" the same story of the same group doing the same thing in az but they pulled out 10,000 pounds in the month of March. Which is obviously not possible doing both so who knows what happened. But just to get an idea of money on 9000 pounds were talking $75,000+ basing off an average of chalks, HW, and browns. I'm calling BS on the amount of poundage until I see some pics or proof but who knows. On the ethical side of it it's legal so don't really see what's wrong with it. If these stories are true all it will do is push guys from new Mexico and Arizona to want a season as well to keep out of staters away. Then those guys will stick to their own states.

 

[Ltsheets]

If it's a commercial operation it shouldn't be any different than an outfitter needing a federal land permit. They should at least have to do that to be legal IMO

 

[stoney]

The shed season was a fiasco this spring! There were more rigs and shed hunters than any regular season big game hunt. They started the 1st of February and just kept pushing the bulls around and higher or out of the country. It was a zoo and most of my old good spots ware cleaned out as son as the bulls drop.

It is time the Game Dept. set a April 1 starting date and fine the hell out of the guys coming in early. Many of the northern states have the opening set just to protect the elk and leave them alone at that critical time of the year for our elk. I plan on working with Commissioner Ramos to get this done.

This will force the professionals from out of State and possibly force them back to their home states.

 

[NMPaul]

Sure don't want to get in an argument with anyone, but, just a thought.

Greatest threat hunting has is that we are not recruiting the next generation. Shed hunting is getting lots more people involved in the outdoors, and guess what, lots of them are young.

Locally I have watched the kids at the local high school get excited about shed hunting. Even kids that do not hunt. compared to a few years ago, there are way more young kids getting out in the woods and finding out how awesome spending a day back in the mountains is.

I definitely think that we need to make sure that we are not further exhausting animals that barely making it through the winter, but, that really is not an issue in southern NM.

I would not have a problem with putting shed hunting off till April, but, to have so much animosity against people shed hunting I think is counter productive.

Locally it was a lot tougher for me and my son shed hunting. We did not do as well as last year, but, we logged a lot of miles, saw beautiful country, got exercise and enjoyed every minute of it. Just hate to see hunters being self destructive.

These are the sheds my son and I have found so far this year all on public land. Not as good as last year, but, I am willing to give up some sheds to see others get excited about the outdoors.

 

[Ropinfool]

people will always find ways to ruin a good thing

 

[Ltsheets]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-17 AT 09:00AM (MST)[p]I hear ya Paul but where I have issues is commercial operations from out of state that are allowed to come in without contributing financially to the well being of the land. Just as outfitters have to have permits for certain situations I believe commercial operations should as well. At least require hunting licenses and stamps to be purchased so they are helping fund conservation in the areas they are shed hunting for business.

I also agree with the April 1st idea.

 

[TerynItUp]

Shed hunting has definitely gained popularity over the last 5-10 years and most folks don't like seeing more and more people at the trailhead. However, like Paul already expressed, the increased interest is a good thing for our sport. More people will gain interest and there will inevitably be more dollars going to NM conservation when those shed hunters make the transition to big game hunting. There will always be a handful who are irresponsible and abuse the resource, but we all know that more regulations only hurt the already responsible sportsmen, and the handful of jerks out there could care less about a "start date."

There are so many bad decisions made based off of bad data and we don't need any more. What I mean is that people look at the glaringly bad examples and assume they are the norm. We then over regulate assuming that the current process is broken when in reality the overwhelming majority of guys out there are good eggs who care about the health of our herds.

Couple that with the fact that there really isn't a whole lot of wintering ground in NM that gets hit hard with bad weather. Sure we get a few bad storms that blow through but not to the magnitude where we suffer extreme loss. I am not sure the what the shape of our fawn and calf recruitment is but I would be awfully surprised if shed hunters are a major factor.

LTsheets, how would you draw a line between a commercial shed hunting operation and a father/son duo like Paul and Zach who clean house? Not arguing, I just think that is a slippery slope that would end up hurting guys who do real good each spring and have a niche way to fund their hunts in the fall.

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.

 

[NMPaul]

To me, it does not pass the smell test that some out of stater showed up and found 9,000 lbs of sheds. First, there is a real advantage to knowing the area and where bulls tend to winter and an outsider has a very tough learning curve. Second, I find the number 9,000 lbs very hard to fathom even for a large group of people.

I would suspect that maybe a buyer from UT or ID came out and bought a few thousand pounds and found a few sheds on their own and internet folklore turned it into something sinister.

Also here is a fact. Even now, we find 5 old sheds to every brown. That means that every year there are tons of sheds never found and everyone that shed hunts comes across them as they shed hunt or on hunts.

Holding the shed hunting off till April 1st would have a couple of advantages. First it would allow more elk to drop because now, you might hit an area in March and see a herd of 5 bulls while you are shed hunting and 4 of them still have horns, making you feel like you have to go work that area again. I never do that, because to me it is more about seeing new country, and exercise than actually finding horns. The horns are just a bonus. However, now you are making new rules, and making it that harder for people to enjoy our public lands and after a long winter, it is good to have an excuse to hit the hills. A few weeks do not make that much of a difference. Some animals may get pushed around, but, bottom line is that I doubt this affects their health, it just makes it harder on people looking for sheds which is in the spirit of public land hunting.
I think it is much better we get that next generation of high school students out enjoying the outdoors.
I hate to say it, but, hunters are the most dysfunctional political group there is. Always infighting, deciding that their way is the only true way, and alienating themselves from other outdoor users. We pay the price for that in many ways.

Whether it is shed hunting or hunting public land, much of the appeal to me is the sense of not only outsmarting the animal and filling a tag, but, also outsmarting the competition or being outsmarted. It is part of the excitement. You have to outwork or out think the other tag holders. Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't.

 

[Ltsheets]

Great points Paul

 

[throwfar]

I'm not sure if you follow New Mexico Avid Hunters on Facebook buy that's where you can see the original post about the 9000 pounds (3 trailer loads with 3000 pounds each). I'm skeptical of that number too, but if you have 10 guys hit the hills for 30 days and average finding 10 sheds per person per day you'd get to 9000 pounds pretty quick.

While hitting the hills is great exercise you'd do better going to a local gym throughout the year and you'll be in overall better shape. Change your workouts up and you'll be healthier, happier, and wise (well 2 out of the 3 ain't bad). Don't know how to workout? There are about a million resources on the web, check out elkshape.com for one.

I'm all for the April 1st date if nothing else to keep NR more inclined to stay in their own states. No fees, or registration to look for sheds just an equal state start date. We are lucky in this state as most of our elk herds enjoy very mild winters, so the April 1st isn't for them just for us to keep New Mexico antlers for New Mexico residents.

Lastly I'm not sure why you think having an April 1st start date would impact how the youth perceive hunting or getting outdoors, please elaborate.

 

[NMPaul]

>I'm not sure if you follow
>New Mexico Avid Hunters on
>Facebook buy that's where you
>can see the original post
>about the 9000 pounds (3
>trailer loads with 3000 pounds
>each). I'm skeptical of that
>number too, but if you
>have 10 guys hit the
>hills for 30 days and
>average finding 10 sheds per
>person per day you'd get
>to 9000 pounds pretty quick.
>
>
>While hitting the hills is great
>exercise you'd do better going
>to a local gym throughout
>the year and you'll be
>in overall better shape. Change
>your workouts up and you'll
>be healthier, happier, and wise
>(well 2 out of the
>3 ain't bad). Don't know
>how to workout? There are
>about a million resources on
>the web, check out elkshape.com
>for one.
>
>I'm all for the April 1st
>date if nothing else to
>keep NR more inclined to
>stay in their own states.
>No fees, or registration to
>look for sheds just an
>equal state start date. We
>are lucky in this state
>as most of our elk
>herds enjoy very mild winters,
>so the April 1st isn't
>for them just for us
>to keep New Mexico antlers
>for New Mexico residents.
>
>Lastly I'm not sure why you
>think having an April 1st
>start date would impact how
>the youth perceive hunting or
>getting outdoors, please elaborate


I probably saw it on Facebook and didn't pay it much mind.

I would love to find a spot where I could consistently find 5 sheds a day. Like most stuff on the internet, it is probably some distant variation of the truth.
Like I said before, we find 5 old sheds to every brown. This means there are plenty in the hills if anyone cares to look.
So far the April 1st date thrown out there is for all the wrong reasons. But, when a guy goes shed hunting and does not find anything (by the way this happens to me a lot), hey it has to be someone else else's fault. I am sure it was some guy from Utah.

Thanks for the work out advice. Never thought of reading an article on how to get in elk shape. Glad it works for you.

One of the bbiggest things that keep the casual hunters from hunting is not drawing tags. It takes research to consistently draw hunts. So if this is the case for adults. How much harder is it for kids. Putting additional rules would make it that much more complex. That is how it would affect young people enjoying it. I think any way we can encourage them to experience the outdoors is good in the long run.

 

[WFGinNM]

I surprised that the Forest Service already doesn't have a permitting system in place. If you want to graze, cut firewood, set up an outfitter's camp or remove any other item from the Forest property you need a permit.

--Bill

 

[throwfar]

Right on Paul, excellent points thank you for your insight. Agree to disagree on April 1st. I shed hunt at least once a week year round so having the April 1st date isn't ideal for me, but I'm willing to do it if it means we increase the popularity of shed hunting within our own state. I agree with your 5:1 ratio which keeps me going back because I know I am missing a lot, I'm pretty sure squirrels hide the browns.

Many of the coming up generation have a lot to learn about the outdoors and like you said we need to get them more involved because we as hunters are the minority and are pretty much at the mercy of the masses when it comes to public land staying public.

I had to make the plug for elkshape the guy who runs it is a good friend and I like to help him out any chance I can.

 

[NMPaul]

>Right on Paul, excellent points thank
>you for your insight. Agree
>to disagree on April 1st.
>I shed hunt at least
>once a week year round
>so having the April 1st
>date isn't ideal for me,
>but I'm willing to do
>it if it means we
>increase the popularity of shed
>hunting within our own state.
>I agree with your 5:1
>ratio which keeps me going
>back because I know I
>am missing a lot, I'm
>pretty sure squirrels hide the
>browns.
>
>Many of the coming up generation
>have a lot to learn
>about the outdoors and like
>you said we need to
>get them more involved because
>we as hunters are the
>minority and are pretty much
>at the mercy of the
>masses when it comes to
>public land staying public.
>
>I had to make the plug
>for elkshape the guy who
>runs it is a good
>friend and I like to
>help him out any chance
>I can.


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I agree with all that including the squirrels