Sheep Hunting By The Yakima Tribe

B

BEARHUNTER4u

Guest
Has anyone heard that the game dept gave the tribe 6 tags to sheep hunt anywhere in the the state? A guy told me that they get to hunt the sheep for 2 months anywhere they like within there boundries.Anyone else hear about this?Just putting the question out there.
 
So they get to hunt anywhere within the state...... but within their boundaries?? So you mean within the Reservation boundaries right? If so, the Yakama Tribes' Reservation isn't spread across the whole state.
 
I heard last night one of the same guy's (Yakima Indians) as last year is involved with the taking of 25 LARGE BULLS out of the Clockum this year!!!
 
Man that just makes me sick!! I have a buddy that is enrolled Yakama, and he knows of these guys and they are really sad!! I told him he needs to turn them in himself!!
 
This is right off the Yakima Nation wildlife department web site.

Bighorn Sheep Hunt!!!

A drawing will take place for permits to be issued to four Yakama Nation tribal members to hunt Bighorn Sheep rams in the Ceded Area. Drawing is on August 1, 2006, so enter now!!! Visit our office (see bottom of page) to enter. Hunters must possess a valid Yakama Nation tribal enrollment card and must be at least 17 years of age to be eligible for the drawing.

What is Ceded areas:

Ceded Area (off-Reservation)
The Yakama Nation?s ceded area encompasses 12 million acres, covering nine separate counties in eastern Washington State.

Any enrolled member of the Yakama Nation has the right to hunt, fish, and gather other food, medicine, or ceremonial supplies in open and unclaimed lands within the ceded area. One restriction is the taking of female deer or elk from Jan.1 through August 31. Any tribal member wishing to hunt female deer or elk for ceremonial purposes during this time can obtain a Special Permit. Enrolled tribal members hunting in the ceded areas must carry their enrollment card and other I.D., for game enforcement officers. Unclaimed lands include Federal, State, and other government land, and does not include private land, refuges (such as feeding stations), and safety game zones. Within the ceded areas, there are winter wildlife sanctuaries where seasonal restrictions do apply, except with a Special Permit:

Winter Feeding Areas (no hunting Dec. 15?March 31)
Includes Oak Creek Feeding Area, Clover Springs Feeding Area, and Cleman Mountain Feeding Area.)
Winter Wildlife Sanctuary (no hunting Dec. 31?March 31)
Sanford Pasture Winter Range.


I sent a email to the tribal Fish and game about the elk hunting in the Colockum. I wonded if they reply. If they do I will let you know what they say.
 
Here's a little more info, from http://www.ynwildlife.org/bighornhuntposter.pdf

FOR YAKAMA NATION TRIBAL HUNTERS
? Four permits will be available, two for Cleman?s Mountain and two for the
Yakima Canyon.
? Permits are for bighorns rams.
? Sign up at Yakama Nation Wildlife Office at Bldg 4690, phone 865-5121, ext.
6325.
? You must be 17 years old and have a Yakama Nation enrollment card to be
eligible.
? The drawing will be held on August 1st.
? Season runs from September 1st to November 15th 2006.
 
Thanks for the info sure glad that are sportsman $$$ are working for the right side of things.I thought that are game dept gave them like 25 or 30 head of sheep a year or two ago? Time to change the rules.Go back to letting us hunt big bulls and hunt all the sheep. Why do we as sportsman supply the takers that don't put money in the system but get to take from us each year?I'm sure that they won't take anymore than them 4 permits because who will stop them?
 
Oregon has been doing the exact same thing for the last few years on the California and Rocky Mtn Bighorn sheep hunts. The Umatilla and Warm Springs tribes lobbied to be able to hunt bighorns in their ceded lands, and now are able to have a tag out of each of the hunts, which I think is 9 California tags and 6 Rocky Mtn Bighorn hunts. They also got into the Elkhorn and Hurricane Creek mountain goat hunts. These are just ones that I know of, could be more. I really don't see why they should have any business getting special aloted tags that the general public is not intitled too for these areas that are not on the reservation, and to top it off they can apply with you and I in the general big game drawing and score there also. In this day in age of equality among races, why are we still doing this, just dosen't make any sense. Just think everyone should have a shot in the drawing, equal treatment for everyone and no special preference for anyone! Just my two cents.
 
As you probably know,the Yakama's aren't the only tribe in WA. I know of two other tribal tags being filled in the Mt. Hull unit this year. I believe that these are available only to the Colville tribe and it makes a total of four sheep that will be taken out of this unit.

Not sure of the total number of tribal tags available in WA.
 
That means they have two shots at it. They can apply for the same tags that we get to try for, then get their own chance. I can't believe this. (yeah I can, but don't want too)I am also real happy that they don't give one cent to the fund as they live tax free. Of course maybe my first statement isn't true because I doubt many of them actually buy a license or tags to hunt. hmmmmmmmm

I must admit, no other topic except maybe wolves brings out the red neck in me more than this. My ancestors used to sit and shoot indians off the riverbank for sport, maybe I should lobby for that as a historical treaty right. SORRY
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-06 AT 03:29PM (MST)[p]LOL, now thats funny!! You guys say Tax free this and tax free that, Casinos, money!! Look into the statements that you guys are blurting, why do Tribes have a State/Federal Compacts to run Tribal gaming, why is the economy of the Tribes and local communitites increasing as well as Natural resources dept?? Salmon restoration?? etc. Just dont look into them rec tags for rams and goats, heck if you were Native, what would you say??
 
I am native Motcha, just as native as you. I'm just not an indian.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759
 
>I am native Motcha, just as
>native as you. I'm just
>not an indian.
>
>JB
>
>"Democracy is two wolves and a
>lamb voting on what to
>have for lunch. Liberty is
>a well-armed lamb contesting the
>vote."
>--Benjamin Franklin 1759
thats what I am talking about!! I have many honorary Native brothas!! I just dont like seeing many articles of over harvesting, blah blah blah, it makes it hard for a ethical hunter like me try and feel comfortable in the hills working my butt off, and not getting treated like the stereotypes suggests one should treat me or 'us'!
 
motcha, it sounds like you are bitter that we are mad about the overharvest of big game. But it should be you that is mad about it. It sounds like you actually get out there and work your butt off and your worried because you might be seen as guilty by association. Then you need to be the one to do something. I would turn in a friend if they were slaughtering a bunch of elk or sheep. Would you?
 
Motcha is right, casinos give mucho tax dollars federally as well as to the state. Any and all tribal members who work get taxed as well and thus the "living tax free" myth is bogus. Warm Springs does get a few sheep tags each year, i'm not sure how many but I know it's just a few. We have to put in for the tags here and they are then raffled. I don't believe too many people put in for the tags, however (I know I don't), because we don't really eat sheep.

I tell you why the native american's are now allowed to hunt within their ceded areas, within the state. It's because years back the government promised us reservations that would contain so many acres. Sounds like Yakama was supposed to have 12 million acres, and I know Warm Springs was supposed to be 10 million acres. Most of this land was chosen to be in areas that weren't very productive to civilization (farming, urbanization, etc...)and so us native american's were placed in what was then thought to be the crappiest land around. Turns out the land was more valuable than originally thought and thus our reservations shrunk in acreage from what was promised. Now what we have are reservations with solid boundaries and the "ceded lands" extending beyond the reservation boundaries in which we are allowed to fish, hunt, pick berries, dig roots, etc. These ceded lands extend to how big the reservations were originally supposed to be. Yakama should have been 12 million acres and Warm Springs 10 million acres and I don't know about the rest. Now those millions of acres are considerably smaller because of all the privately owned land? So you tell me who has gotten shafted? Yes it does bother me a lot when tribal members take more than what is needed (taking advantage of the situation), but it also bothers me when a few of you bigots start talking about getting the short end of the stick when it comes to hunting?

I think the native americans doing the overharvesting are the ones who are totally the same as some of you obvious racial bigots....they are just indian bigots and the more attention you give to them the more they are going to act out and take. Lord knows the only attention you guys are getting is negative attention...making yourselves look bad to the rest.

I am more than happy with the land and rights native americans have now. There are more of us that don't take over-advantage of our rights and try not to cry over spilled milk. But occassionally we run into a few of you who just don't understand and who want to take what little land and rights that are left. When you just ought to be glad the reservations aren't as large as they are supposed to have been to begin with. Peace.
 
Mocha is right, my words and my attitude are no better than any other scum out there. Call it frustration as I see my stealhead and salmon runs decimated, where we can't fish yet the gill nets are hung. Call it the attitude of hunting from July to Dec 31st, bag limits, waste, etc. all in the name of historical rights, ceremonial rights, and so forth. Its hard to stomache when you come up over a rise and find 20deer dead in four feet of snow, with all of the bucks heads cut off and the does layed there to feed the crows. I know whites can do the same thing, but the funnything is its not legal for us, but they can hide their trety laws. Then when I go on the reservation to take pictures I get harrased as whitie.
get rid of the fourwheelers, nylon nets, machine guns, etc.
pick up your longbow, hand tied nets, and spear and you can hunt and fish all you want.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-06 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-06 AT 09:41?AM (MST)

Well, I will tell you if it werent for Congress' slick moves in the late 1800's the paiute tribe would have had all of the southeast quarter of Oregon as a reservation. Imagine that?

But as it were, cattle men and settlers had priority and we were forcibly removed. But as I recall the payment for the taking of the land was accepted by the people who were living in 1969 not by anyone born afterwards.

I was born after and no trust money was set aside for me or the future generations. We were not party to the settlement, nor did the settlement specify that hunting and fishing rights were apart of the Docket 87 settlement.

So therefore I/We still retain those rights to hunt and fish in the reservation boundaries at it stood in 1871, correct? [See Northwest Ordinance](Until such time as the US Gov't settles with any member born after 1969.)Heh heh, scary thought isn't it.

As far as the tax free stuff. I do taxes for tribal members who work here and I can tell you they pay federal but not state IF they reside on the rez, those that live in town pay state and federal. Casino's give plenty of money back to local communities, funding schools and what not.

As far as the redneck who would like to shoot natives all day long, I say whatever floats your boat man!!!

And now for my point, The Tribes in question had savvy people who negotiated that Treaty back in 1855 and only an act of Congress can terminate it. So if you do not like it, get to work and try to abrogate it. Call your Congress folks, your Governors or better yet introduce a bill yourselves. And;

There are natives such as myself, my wife and son who put in for the draw like everyone else. It just so happens we get drawn every year (knock on wood).

Some fodder for your minds

Hawkk
 
Need2hunt-
"The native Americans doing the overharvesting are
the one's who are totally the same as some of you obvious
racial bigots."
So the people on this thread that are asking questions
about tag allocation are the same as people who slaughter
deer, elk and other game?
"Lord knows the only attention you guys are getting
is negative attention......making yourself look bad to
the rest."
Yea, maybe bad attention to YOU!!! You who thinks they
who question the needless slaughter of game are the SAME
as those who do so.
There's a biggot here all right. Look in the mirror.
Peace my rear end.
 
I'm sure I'm labelled as the racial bigot. Yep, guess I am. I don't sit along the river and shoot indians because its wrong. i take care of them in a hospital setting as they bleed to death from drinking etc. I've been prejudiced against more than I have the other way. I love the fact that there are several native americans that are hard working law abiding citizens, but I'd hate to see the percentage. Yep, there are bad whities and bad mexi's too. I believe that the 1800's are over and that is my point. My ancestors did things and so did yours. Currently we have the same resources, and are called Americans. At what point will all of this change. If you all want your own reservations or soveriegn government then so be it. Stay on it, get a passport etc. That is about as ridiculous sounding as is all of your hunting and fishing rights etc.
 
"So the people on this thread that are asking questions
about tag allocation are the same as people who slaughter
deer, elk and other game?"

No, i'd call that being concerned. What I was trying to point out is what is the difference between the natives doing the gross overharvesting and those few here who obviously don't like indians and would like to excersize "their treaty rights of shooting indians like their ancestors did?" Or the doctor (I guess thats what he is) who "takes care of us in a hospital as we bleed from drinking etc." There is no difference. There is an obvious hate between the natives who are grossly overharvesting and those of you who dislike most, if not all natives. It's all negative, wasted energy in the end not being put to good use to protect the resource.

As for me I do all my hunting on land that is owned/managed by the tribe I belong to. So for you "doc" you don't have to worry about seeing me on your favorite hunting grounds and I hope I will never have to make a visit to your hospital and be treated by one who is so decieving because I myself do not drink alcohol or do drugs.
 
Who says tribal governments don't put in the time or effort to improve wildlife habitat on state land? Check out the following 2 sites. Without the help of Warm Springs these areas of private land would have been sold to who knows and the hunting access and habitat would maybe have met what demise? FYI, hunting is allowed to both tribal and non-tribal members on a drawing system. peace!

http://www.nwcouncil.org/fw/stories/johnday.htm

http://www.nwcouncil.org/fw/stories/pinecreek.htm
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-06 AT 05:44PM (MST)[p]This whole half-informed American History lesson is asinine. I keep seeing the word "we" being used over and over. There is no "we" involved here. No one alive today is being forced to live on a reservation. No one living (or very few) has forced any so called Natives to live on any reservation. There is a little thing called progress. You cannot move forward as a civilization if you are hung-up and dwell on the past. Sure some bad sh!t happpend many many years ago here in North America, just as it has happened in every other piece of land on this planet. Learn from it, drop the pitty and move forward. Now, I am going to be called a racist and a biggot. If because I feel everyone should be treated equally and live by the same laws, have the same oportunities and contribute their fair share to society, no matter what ethnicity, sex, religion, etc, makes me a biggot, then I guess I am. The true biggots are the folks that feel that they are owed something or are better just because of their ancestry. Get the f over it, everyone.

By the way, my grandmother was 1/2 Creek indian and 1/2 Scottish. My other grandma was 1/4 Blackfoot, German and Irish. You know what that makes me? A f-ing human being, that's all!!
Eric
 
Polarbear has nailed it directly on the head.
Need2hunt, you're just putting up for your own
no matter what the hell the do. That's wrong.
Thats wrong if you're white, black, mexican,
ect. It don't make a crap. I live around a bunch
of people that are a bunch of damned idiots. At least
I admit it. I work at a prison with officers that are
every race we've mentioned up above. I have some damned
idiots in every race. I have some fine s.o.b.'s in every
race. My good freinds include people of everything we've
talked about. We sometimes drink beer together and make
fun of the other idiots that don't get it. Most of those
idiots are white, black, mexican, whatever..........
I like good folk's in my camp. Don't give a flying crap
what race they are.....
Larry
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-26-06 AT 05:54AM (MST)[p]I think this sheep tag situation marks a new milestone for cooperative herd managment. Maybe this is the begining of a more workable solution to the other wildlife harvest issues. I'll tell you this, if all people do is tear down the hard work of many people and the tribes still gets bad PR and this kind of things brings out more indian haters, the future of hunting, all species will stay underground - and that's what make ALL of you pissed.

It's a great topic, but all I see it doing is dividing an inflaming people against constitutionally protected rights, both for Indians and Non Indians. Sure it's a hot topic because a lot of people like to hunt sheep yet there are few tags available. It makes since to monitor harvest because there are few sheep and a lot of demand. . .

It's ironic that people complain about not understanding Indian harvest and how it impacts the herds (because there's no numbers and it's not tracked) but when there's an allocation system in place that tracks harvest they still are upset. This program sets an enforceable limit. It is exactly as some of you want assimilation. You?re right, the tribes could harvest sheep without a tag, but you know what, some have worked very hard to get the leaders of the tribal nations to understand the fact that there needs to be an allocation system and a way to track the harvest. This kind of work takes a lot of effort and it exactly what's been talked about on this site in the past. Now there's a tag system for sheep due to a lot of diplomacy and planning - and it's for the good of all people - and most of you still want to gripe. It's not inequality; it's called jealous boys. . .

Let's face it, it's a typical reaction, those who have nothing, have nothing to lose so they talk big about other's giving up their rights, no matter how entrenched in the "American" fabric they may be.

In the end, it's all about horns and that's it. You cant eat the horns, get over it. . . it's a manageable system, one that most have asked for in the past, now that it's here, don't knock it. . .
 
TFinal, great post that makes a whole bunch of sense. I regret that I have been sucked into the vacuum and have been guilty of typing out of anger. What you have perfectly stated is correct in the tribes getting bad PR. No matter what a tribe seems to do for game management, they get criticized for it. Some here are more radically outspoken than others, and i'd truly be afraid for me and my family's safety if I were to run into a group of them while we are out doing what we love...and believe me I have run into a few of the likes of them before. It only takes a few to spoil it for the bunch. If those few people were to watch what they say maybe they wouldn't rub some of the other people who can make a difference the wrong way!

In the end it does end up as a battle for the horns and nothing else (as Tfinal says). As i've stated in a similar post "making it illegal to sell/trade any antlers which are attached to the skull or have obviously been sawed off would get rid of half of the problem." Did anybody in the other post (Colockum elk camp) complain or question the rumored taxidermist who was taking in the rather large rack to his shop?! If the taxidermist was buying the large elk rack than he is just as guilty, if not more, for the demise of what sounds like a truly outstanding elk management area....or is he not?
 
well, need2hunt, looks like they have all gone into hiding on this one. I hope what we've said makes sense. . .

I just want people to recognize how far we've come and that if they want to shoot holes in the ship, it will sink, and there never will be a chance at getting a better handle on elk and deer, should that really be a problem. . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-06 AT 04:15PM (MST)[p]Tfinal - thanks for the help you are a good fella' in my book! It's good to see that there are some who don't pass judgement onto the rest of us because of the actions that only a few are doing. Actually I bet most of the folks who visit this site are good fella's and have thus chosen to stay out of it.

Sometimes it's hard for one to think straight when there is anger involved and I am sorry if I offended anyone that I didn't mean to. I may not be in a position to fix much of anything but I am here, and if anyone is interested in information that could help fix any concerns just ask.
 
You don't need to be afraid of your family because someone is trying to make a point that it isn't the 1800's anymore. Yep, its all about fairness and all jealousy isn't it. Try one system, with one people, and one source. I guess its jeolousy to think that this group of people should have their sheep, and the blacks should have theirs, and the white boy has this many, and so on. There really doesn't seem to be that much use in argueing, or contradicting someone on here because that labels you as a bigot. I am not a doctor, but am front line in helping people. All people, from all races and creeds. I have formed an opinion because of what has happened to me as experience. I have been prejudiced against more by one group of folks than any other. I just happen to have been raised by a reservation, lived on a reservation, and now work near and on a reservation. I am happy for you that you don't drink and you live a clean life. Thats awesome for anyone. I hope when you are out in the woods with your family, you don't put down white folks, justas I don't other folks to my kids. We could go on and on with how I feel, what I believe, etc. I'm just telling you that there is overharvest and abuse and it is all about treties or rights from a LONG time ago. That is insane. Things have changed alot since then. I have had lots of experience where I have turned in poachers on the reservation with pictures and so forth. NOTHING happened. I turned in an elk poacher that killed only for the antlers. Because of tribal politics, nothing happened. It just makes a guy grumpy and nasty on here. By the way, the whole shooting thing was just a point that it should be seen as just as absurd as those hiding behind these treaty rights. Like the guys who drove into the elk feeding station, and started shootin elk in front of everyone, and it was OK. Did the tribe do anything about it. NOPE. Ignorance....yep thats what it all is. Jealousy, Yep I'm jealous I can't walk into a feeding station and start harvesting bulls, or drive my jet sled up the columbia to rope in the chinook. We cry that its the hydroelectric power, but the nets have nothing to do with it. ever see a boat filled with stinking fish, because the guys decided to tie one on before taking care of them. Ever see a group of hunters come over the hill in their trucks with automatic weapons and shoot a bunch of deer on the winterrange because its their treaties rights (lummi indians/Methow) I doubt their tribe was over there in the winter, with fourwheel drives and automatic weapons etc. Thats my point. These rules are outdated and should be fixed. How do you go about doing that when everytime someone mentions it, we get a history lesson about the indian and the white man, injustices and then you are instantly labelled a bigot. FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!
 
You forgot to mention the Makah's killing a whale with a .50 cal, jumping into an aluminum power boat, towing said whale to shore and pounding beers on the way, while waving to the news teams in helicopters. Just like their ancestors. By the way, the vast majority of that "sacred, cerimonial whale" rotted because no one could stand to eat it and couldnt find any one to buy the stinky thing. And no, Eelgrass, it wasnt Luna! Haaahaaaa.... I also have turned in tribal poacher only to have nothing happen. I will say that I have actually been rewarded for turning in and building a case against a poacher that was on tribal land, by being issued a goat tag, by the tribe, good for anywhere in the Cascades. It was because it involved a couple of white guys on tribal land. If it had been reversed, nothing would have happened. As I have said on here several times, my #1 hunting buddy is a Squaxin. He was so fed up with their tribal b.s. that he moved to the other side of the state and has dropped his affiliation with the tribe.
Eric
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-06 AT 10:09PM (MST)[p]Hey fellas, would any of you mind discussing the negative impacts on wildlife that our american society and "progress" has brought with in, on hunting over the past 150 years? Salmon, heck there used to be 11 million fish in the columbia river pre 1900. If you want to talk about the way it was, then you cant dissmis the fact that when the agreements were made, there was abundant wildlife, no road, no fences, and no competition. The agreements were made in order to settle land, and that was, at the time understood. In return the various tribes and the federal government agreed that the tribes would still be able to harvest animals and fish.

In the historical context, you could say that most of what was agreed upon has been greatly changed as a result mostly of the non-native community. Take the whale example, 150 years ago there were plentiful numbers of whales and therefore it was not difficult to find a whale, now their numbers are so low, again as a result of non-native over harvest and habitat destruction, that it takes modern equipment to harvest them effectively.

This does not make it okay to abuse rights, or over harvest animals, in either case, native or non native. On the otherhand if you want "traditional hunting" practices, than put back all the habitat, take out the elk fences, remove all the homes and cities and developemt that has impacted the integrity and availablity of the animals. Short of that, there's very little reason to argue about "traditional hunting" methods. It is what it is . . .
 
boneaddict,you've got to be one of the most stupid wannabe indians i've ever heard of.Nobody claims that the tribe does everthing they should to prevent illegal hunting.Neither does any other law enforcment agency.People are so quick to bash the indians when they try to excercise their legal right,but we wont talk about how the white man wiped out the buffalo,we won't mention how the white man has drove numerous animals into extinction,we won't talk about how the numerous oil spills in the oceans have killed ungodely amounts of sea life.The white man has to live by all these rules and regulations because for hundreds of years everything they touch goes to hell.Im in total favor of a hunting license because if there was'nt,there would'nt be any animals to hunt.Why don't you call your local fish and game dept and ask how many animals were poached buy the white man,you would be amazed.You say times have changed,we'll not really because the indians are still being bashed and the goverment is still trying to take everything they have and there is still idiots like you and bearhuntr blowing hot air out of you ass when you dont have a leg to stand on.
 
"Stupid"? "Idiots"? At least they can form a proper sentence and have decent grammar. I think that the "idiots" are those who cannot get over the past and move toward the future. Stop feeling so much self pity and do something to make things equal for all mankind, not special privileges for the few. When there is division of any kind between peoples, there will always be animosity and hatred. Why do some folks prefer to dwell in the past and ignore the future? That is a prime example of true stupidity!
Eric
 
The biggest problem I have is the indians who were set up on reservations in the 1800's were not the first tribes to occupy there land. They went to war for centuries fighting over the land. The whites defeated the indians that occupied the land at the time of our arrival. The tribe that occupied the land at that time was not paying past tribes for their land or allowing them to hunt on there old land. Its the way the world works. We are the only ones that I know of who have conquered a people and then payed them for the injustices done to them for eternity. It is an out dated sytem that will need to be changed or my son will have very little opportunity in his lifetime. For example, last year was a record harvest for crab fishing in Washington waters. The tribes set their future harvest to be 50% of last years harvest. This year the crabbing has sucked. The fishery can't sustain this type of fishing. It needs to be changed. Whites did not come close to their 50% this year because the indians got in first and did their best to get their 50%. The fishery is depleted and should be drastically cut for future years. This was the San Juan crabbing situation and may not reflect the entire states crab fishing. How can you list Chinook in the Skagit as an endangered species and then allow netting with a high by catch of kings? I know a white guy who poached a king and got a $10,000 fine and a sentence of a year in jail and the indians were dumping dead kings out of there nets into the river legally the same day. Really frustrating. This guy was 75 years old and had been fishing the river since he was 4 years old. They both had equal rights to fish in my opinion but they obviously don't have equal rights. They should both be labeled poachers if the fishery is in that bad of shape. This day and age you can't manage fish and wildlife if you only have control of half of it. It is pointless. Frustrating! And don't accuse me of being prejudice because I am far from it.
Shane
 
This thread started with a discussion about an allocation of sheep tags to native americans and then speculation about one hunter taking 25 mature bull elk this year lone in one hunting unit. That seems to be the problem to focus on. If that is indeed happening, something must be done.

As an aside, and to correct some misinformation above, casions on reservation land do not pay any taxes on their gargantuan gaming revenues. The casnios give a a few percentage points voluntarily to their favorite community affairs, but that's for PR purposes.
 
Whole myriads of issues, opinions what have you on this thread and a lot of bad feeling. Being of significant native heritage myself and growing up respecting the old ways of the indians through our household books, I have the utmost respect for the old ways. That being said, clans of peoples have warred on each other since the dawn of time and taken over lands. Having European heritage also, I have no special rights in Europe I could claim, though I could here in the US, as Blackfoot. That is a unique thing here. I do agree that to move forward, you can't dwell in the past. I think that's the fear that tribes have is any concession will lead to the whole ball of yarn being taken away, as far as game management. I would feel the same, especially with today's administration taking a mile for every inch given.... I have strong opinions on the issues for both tribal and non tribal hunters and both issues are equally important, no one more than the other. I have seen evidence of poaching on both sides. No need to point fingers and two wrongs will never make a right. We're all on here for one thing and my feeling is that's because we are in my opinion leaders for our way of life. We need to meet in the middle on these issues and keep working to do so. Like it or not we are all members, at least in Wa.. of a cooperative game management system, so we had better put our heads together to come up with solutions to these issues instead of just pissing and moaning about what ails....
 
I was reading this whole thread again and again, the first time it made me mad........... the second, and third times, it made me laugh, and now it makes me shake my head. Is it about the Tag numbers or the 'Special Rights' of Tribal members?? Is it about not being an Indian?? I dont understand it now, it started as a Sheep Tag issuance problem, and it turns to Crabbing numbers, Salmon Numbers and now Casinos?? WOW!!
 
It started out as frustration and ended in more frustration. it seems we are still covering the same issue. As for being a stupid idiot, you might be right. As for whitie poluting the oceans etc. who is the prejudice idiot now. Maybe them darn indians don't ever drive boats, work on oil rigs, drive cars, etc. They definatly have nothing to do with any work up in Alaska, or Texas. Next you'll be telling me they only ride horses, don't use any electricity, and wipe their butts with sunflower leaves. You sure don't get that we are one as people, we need to take the same responsibility for all issues. Yep, blame the white man. You probably shouldn't waste your time trying to explain this to them polarbear. I really don't think they will ever get it.
 
You're right Bone! It is like beating a dead horse. Speaking of horses, isn't the only reason that the Indians had horses in the first place was due to the Spaniards bringing them over? I find it odd that they blame all of their problems (or the majority of) on the white man, but exploit those same things on the rez. I.e., gambling, firewater sales, tax free smokes, massive wild game slaughter and fish kills, pollution of the land (ever take a drive through a rez?). I am sure that their ancestors killed off native salmon runs only to replace them with non-native chum salmon and harvest them for their roe and nothing else. Or killing a herd of elk only to take the back straps and antlers from only those that were close enough to their truck. You're right Bone; I am beating a dead horse, unfortunately.
Eric
 
Actually Mocha, you sound like an ethical man that doesn't appreciate the bad press you have been lumped into. I just hope you don't have a bumper sticker that says kill whitie on it. : )
 
I agree. I truly believe that Mocha does not condone that type of behavior. It is sad that a small minority of turds have to soil the public perception of the rest. Speaking of bumper stickers. My neighbor (he's in his 80's) has one on his truck that says "help stop tribal poaching" "equal hunting rights for all!" with a phone number on it. I believe the sticker is about as old as the early 80's pick-up that it is on.
Eric
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-06 AT 08:24PM (MST)[p]I thank you for the credit! I am an ethical hunter, and have been on 'have to' hunts for cerimonial purposes and funerals etc! I have killed deer and elk minutes from my house, I had no need to go to a trophy area, stalk a monster, and try and kill him just for meat!! I mean come on, they all taste the same, and the herds are already hurting, let em spit their seeds, take a sattelite, or a spike, maybe a dry cow!!

I too hear of these guys that over-hunt, even poach and it kills me!! We have seasons here, during the rut its all archery for bulls, and I know most of the hunters here in Oregon where I am at aint gonna shoot no bow, its too tough!! SO they need to shoot and hide!! Bastages! Sorry, I am accusing my own, but there are a few as we all have said that ruin it for the rest, but I tell you they sure as heck better not get caught by me! That is why I say report them, we have Tribal Officers that are patrolling, but they could use the help with evidence etc!!
 
Well its true, I mean, what if these fellas were shooting all cows and spikes?? Would it be such a problem........... well sort of, but less concerning right!!?? Just read synopsis... or the latest studies........ sure the cows make the babies, but a 6-7 year old bull is uncommon these days!! And the more bulls shot, the higher the caow/bull ratio, and then what?? The 2-3 yrs bulls are gonna be the herd bulls, and then there goes the blood lines and strong genetics!!

............ but don't get me wrong, a bull here and there wont cross my sights without a second look. But 4-5 or more a year or season.......... you gotta be F'n kidding me!!?? Sorry, I am getting all mad now!! And yes, I am enrolled here in Oregon, and I hunt, on the Reservation and on Ceded land. I have many General Tag holders I know, and I help them in any way........ see we can hunt with a General Tag holder, as long as we abide by their regulations, and we are on public land within the ceded area. I have done this,...... many times, and I am sorry, but I am very thankful of my Treaty Rights, I honor them......... I just dont like the ones who take advantage of them!!
 
that's great motcha and thats the problem were having here.you've got one guy screwing it up for everybody else and look what happens.i'll i can say is we'll continue to hunt the way we've always have and hopefully when we come across a angry group of white hunters there will be understanding and caution with the use of a open mind.
 
Sorry for my weekend absence from the topic....some of us enjoy hunting around here. It is good to see there has been some progress around here. I never said that I encourage poaching or gross overharvesting of anything. I too enjoy my "special rights" and am very respectful in excersizing them, no I don't want them taken away. No I don't think i'm better than the next person because of these rights either. I have also done my fair share of trying to bring an end to mindless slaughter of animals simply for the rack...both among the indian and non-indian population. It is senseless to say one group does it more than the other because it happens on both sides of the line. I have made it clear, earlier, on my views of racists but I will not bring myself to call down an entire ethnic group of people for only what a few of are doing. We do need to be as one in order to move forward. There are obvious concerns/problems that need to be fixed but this topic just proves we must first fix ourselves.
 
does this new regulation and tag quota get us on track to building a better wildlife managment system? What's wrong with the tag system. Is it a model for other species? Is it a step in the right direction. Why very little discussion about the topic of this post? Did the WDFW and the YN do the right thing? I mean, the tribe could have just gone out and harvested without the agreement. So is it a good thing or a bad thing. Is it moving us in the right direction or what?
 
Any tracking of harvest is a good thing in my book. It's a key part of successful game management. So, yes, step in the right direction..
 
I can not believe this topic is still being discussed. Seems some people didnt get drawn for deer tags. LOL .
 
Yeah, unfortunately when you only get to kill one deer per year in your state it doesn't take long to fill your tag, but now if I were to be able to shoot 7 per family member or something like that I could keep busy almost year around.
 
One deer per family- hmmmmm don't you have the party system. If I recall a party leader can get tags for all his party members up to 10 tags in Oregon.

Where exactly do natives get to kill 7 of anything per family member? I bet there is wayyyyyy more poaching done that impacts herds done by non natives.

I hear there is a really long season on whitetails back in Alabama so a guy could hunt from August until January around the USA if he had the wherewithall.

I still think you would despise us even if we had no treaty rights(which as you recall our tribe does not).

JMO
 
This is not a we vs. them debate it is one group getting special priveleges that another group doesn't get. I am sure many Indians are ethical hunters but there are a lot of Indians that take advantage of the system.

These "have to" hunts are BS. The Yakima's had a have to hunt a few years ago up at the nile feeding station. They guys shot the only two big bulls they could find for a ceremony. I you need elk for a ceremony shoot some elk that are causing damage. Don't shoot the ones that are feeding out of the feeding stations that the white man have set up.
I have witnessed first had the respect some Indians have for wildlife. At the mouth of the Klickitat river there were salmon at the boatlauch that the Indians had cut the bellies open and taken the eggs out. There were alos 10-15 steelhead just left to rot. When I was 10 years old I was fishing at the mouth of the White Salmon river. There were 4 oversized sturgeon floating around the boat lauch there. The fish had been gillnetted but since they couldn't be sold the Indians just left them to rot.

If Indians want to have all the luxuries that have been brought to them by the white man then they need to abide by the same rules that we have to. If they want special treatment then they neeed to give back all their things that we have introduced to them and go back to their old way of life. Indians are very selective about what they do and don't want from the society. They do want luxuries that we have but they don't want our rules. They make up their own rules.

I am sorry that the Indians that do hunt and fish hard and respect wildlife get lumped into the category with the low life's that don't. You have the opportuntity to change things by going to the tribe and stopping the sh!t that is going on. Us white guys can't. I didn't want to get started on this but I have seen this problem ever since I started hunting and fishing and it makes me sick.
AKCAT
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-06 AT 01:48PM (MST)[p]Help pack everyone's bag cuz there are no true "native americans". All of our ancestors have migated from other countries including the so called natives.
371895.gif



Eric
 
Hey Eric, you are a master of the obvious, bud. You're always right on top of the simplest issues. You have sharp, clear thinking. And, much to my surprise, you actually have helped me make my point -

It's completely ridiculous for anyone to suggest that we turn the clock back or that tribes "go back" to using the "traditional" weapons that you define. . . just like it's impossible to turn back the genetics clock and send the boats back to England. . .
 

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