Stolen Deer! Is this right????

[Clyde Hollinger]

I have a question and a story for you guys to voice your opinions on. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are. First the story... My Brother was out hunting last Thursday night in an area that we knew held a dandy buck. I shot mine out of there opening day, 25" 4x4. He jumped a group of deer in the same patch of cedars, low and behold the big boy was with them. They went up onto an open side hill and stopped about 300 yards away. My brother put a bullet right behind the right front shoulder, the deer jumps, wheels around and starts going down hill. (Visibly hurting) He shoots one more time and misses high. Then the deer goes out of sight. He has to run around a hill to get another shot. As he's running he hears shooting in the direction that the buck was going. He crests the hill just in time to see the deer go down. He works his way down to the deer, and is met there by two other hunters. He tells them that he had hit the buck and shows them where he hit him. There is an entrance hole just behind the right front shoulder and a large exit hole in front of the left front shoulder at the base of the neck. One guy pipes up and says, "F-YOU! This is our F-ing deer we got him". My brother points out that they were shooting at the left side of the deer and there was no way the could have hit it where it was hit. My brother says, "well I feel like my shot was a fatal shot, and this should be my deer, and I'm going to tag him". The same guys says, "F-You this is our deer, and if you touch it I'll blow your F-ing head off!!" Well after a bit of a heated discussion my brother decides to back off, as it was two againt one.
My question is, how do you guys feel about a situation like this. Was it ethical for this other "hunter" to do this? Would you have done it? What would you have done? And yes, it was an out of town, city slicker who did it.
Keep in mind this deer was a monster, 6x8 33" wide. (Ok, maybe not a monster in some of y'alls book, but a monster in our eyes)
Let me know what you think!
Later,
Elkster

 

[ORsouthpaw]

No! That is not right. If your brother hit the deer and was pursing it to finish it off then by all means he should of been entitled to the deer. I guess acording to the law the hunter that actually finishes the animal is the legal owner in some states. I don't think that most ehithical hunters would feel right about simply finishing a deer off and taking it, unless of course no one was actually pursuing it. I would have followed them back to thier vehicle (at a distance of course) recorded thier plate number and reported them to the fish and game dept. At the very least this would probably cause a inquiry of some kind. I have heard of this happening before and it has resulted in the animal being confiscated or returned to the original shooter. However, it would be very hard for your brother to prove his story in this case since there were two of them but why let it go especially if it was a nice buck. It's too bad that people don't care about how they hunt just as long as they bring home something to show for it. Sorry to hear about your bro's luck.

 

[Deerlove]

The deer should be your bros buck. Russ

 

[ktc]

Sounds like another stuff happens story. Unfortunately, your brother, then and now, is going to have to chalk this one up as bad luck. The other guys killed it. I would personally feel funny taking a buck that was definately wounded with someone in pursuit. It sounds as if your brother was maybe making some assumptions and possibly there was more to the story. It is very difficult to determine exact hits at 300 yards. When your brother is not within eyesight of the buck he cannot be sure of the situation and know what is happening on the other side of the ridge. It is too bad the other people could not be civil about things and a fair agreement reached. Maybe with both sides willing to work together the rightful owner could have taken the buck with no hard feelings. God, 33", I would be puking. Puking because he didn't drop and puking because I had missed the second shot.

If your bro wants some payback turn them in for assault with a deadly weapon. Just because you are hunting and have a weapon in tow does not give you the right to be Clint Eastwood.

 

[polarbear]

What a couple of douchebags! The best thing to do would be to get the f- out of there and call the cops and or a gamie. Find their rig and write the lic#. If at all possible, I would be waiting at their rig with an officer and or some hunting buddies.
Also, 4 flats on their rig would help with the pain a little. Dont slash the tires, just take out the cores. Hahaaaa.. They will be busy gutting and dragging for a while.
Eric

 

[MichaelJ]

A 33in buck! Man, that's a dream buck of mine! I would've been pissed! Sorry bout your bros tough luck. I think the deer should've been his!

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome, right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.

 

[txhunter58]

I am a little unsure from your story whether or not the other guys even hit the buck. It didn't sound like they did. If they didn't I would have gotten there license number and then gone and gotten the game warden and file theft charges against them. Hopefully the blood trail and the bullet wound would be enough evidence.

After all, if they didn't even hit the deer, and this can be proved with a blood trail, then this is no difference between that and them taking the deer away from him after he had killed it, gutted it and was dragging it back to his truck.

However, if they did indeed hit the buck last, regardless of the lethality of that shot, then they can legally claim the buck.

Bummer

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[Hawkk33]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-27-03 AT 08:01PM (MST)[p]I bet the asswipe who piped in "f-you this is our deer" wasn't even the one who finished it off, just an a-hole looking for a fight. Furthermore, they were violating the law by confronting you in that manner while in possession of a firearm you shoulda tried to get a license # and turned them in.

Events like this confirm that inbreeders shouldnt be allowed to hunt or possess weapons. I mean they already possess the most dangerous weapon of all----ignorance !!!!!!!!!!

 

[freedivr2]

I feel for ya, I really do. Heck of a situation, though. Personally, I think it'd be your bros deer, but what if the animal would've traveled 1 mile and then been downed? Same situation? I dunno. A couple quick ones; a guy was shooting at a nice bull Elk out of Pagosa Springs a few years ago. The elk was in clear view (across a canyon, he was in the bottom, I was near the ridge) and about 300 yards from me. This guy took 23 shots at the bull, I'm not kidding one bit. The bull never was hit. I was contemplating on shooting at it but decided against it. I probably never would've seen the elk had I not heard the shooting, it made me sit down and take notice (since I was almost cresting the ridge with my back to the animal). Should I have had the "right" to shoot at the bull? Maybe. But I didn't, I figgered that guy had spotted it, and it was his game, so I left it alone.

A story in the American Hunter Magazine a few years ago, real different, but will also tell you where some of our wonderful courts/judges are on these kinda things; A hunter shot a deer, went over to it, put his rifle in the rack and stepped back to take a picture. Only problem; deer wasn't dead, just unconscious. The buck jumped up, ran over a ridge with the rifle still in the rack (hard to believe but this was in the magazine, I ain't makin this up). A moment later, the hunter hears a shot, then goes over the ridge to find another hunter starting to dress out the deer. Same conversation kinda happened (you know, "it's my deer" "no it's not, it's my deer" etc, and worse yet, this 2nd hunter would not relinquish the rifle on the rack! He KEPT the rifle on the deer rack despite what I'm sure was a pretty spirited argument by the other hunter. And it gets worse. The first hunter sued the 2nd hunter, the case went to trial and the judge ruled in favor of the 2nd hunter who laid claim to both the deer and the rifle under some stupid but very legal salvage rights law. Totally, totally ridiculous. But apparently a true event.

So what you experienced is terrible, but at least one hunter has gone thru worse......

 

[RuttCrazed]

I agree that the deer should have been your brother's, but he did the right thing by walking away - no deer is worht dying for! He should have gotten a license plate number or delayed them long enough for the F&G to show up, but at least he is still here to tell the story.

Rut

 

[Tuffbucker]

This is definitely a tough one....if a huge buck runs past me, and I shoot at it and it drops....I would have a hard time giving it up, if it had been shot by another hunter earlier, but had run right to me...the bad thing is the majority of the time, you see a big buck running by, you dont think to look and see if he's been shot already, you just shoot. I had a situation happen a few years ago, fortunatley it wasn't a monster, and the buck was the other guys first deer, so I didn't have a lot of heartache giving it up to him....i ended up shooting a better buck later that evening....

Now in this situation, both your brother and the other hunter had legal claim to the buck.....hypothetically, even if these guys hadn't been major dinks, and Fish and Game had to be called to settle the situation....who do you think they would've sided with??? Unfortunately I would say that they would've sided with the other guys, that is if when they shot at the buck they actully hit it.....unfortunatley that buck is still free game until it goes down....

As for these "dinks", someone threatens my life like that, they better be a quicker draw and shot than I am, cause If someone is standing there with a gun telling me that they are going to shoot me, they better be ready for a gun battle, cause I dont take to people threatening my life....

Sorry for your brothers bad luck....i definitely think he "deserved" the buck more than these guys

 

[MartinHunter]

I would have shot it, if I honestly did not no a hunter was in persuit. If it was already shot when I can to it, and anouther hunter such as your brother came uo to claim it, sure as hell I would give it to him. I would be glad a person who shot an animal was in persuit and did not give up and move onto anouther.
Michael

 

[BrianID]

That is a sad situation and one of my worst nightmares. If it was a 24" buck I wouldn't have a hard time letting the other guys have it but a 33" buck with trash would be hard to walk away from. Since I don't know all of the facts it is hard to judge. The worst thing about the situation is that the other guys didn't sound reasonable. If those guys know that your brother fatally hit it, don't you think they will feel kind of stupid having it hanging on their wall? What are they going to tell people that ask to hear the story on how they got it?

 

[MartinHunter]

There story might sound something like this:

?Yeah, me and Billy Bob (notice the poor grammar) were a sitten? on our their 4 whellers? when we a herd a gun shot. Next thang we nude their weres that therr huge buck layen right in front of use. We pumped a couple rounds into it belly to make a sure da? thang was dead. When da? guy came up to claim it we told the mother that we shot em?. Man, that is the trophy I am a most proud ov.

Just a guessen.

Michael

 

[bobcatbess]

IT AIN'T RIGHT BUT UNFORTUNATALY HAPPENS

TOO BAD A GUY HAS TO BE IN THE SAME AREA'S WITH PR!CKS LIKE THESE!!!

I WONDER IF THEY NEED A FREE TUNE-UP???

THESE ARE SOME OF THE UNETHICAL BASTARDS WE DON'T NEED ON THE MOUNTAINS PACKING GUNS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat JUST WAITING FOR THE DAY A LOWLIFE TRIES TO TAKE MY ANIMAL!!!

 

[polarbear]

About 10 or 11 years ago I shot a buck that had just ben shot by another hunter. I was driving down an old logging road and heard a shot. This buck came bolting off of the hill about 20 yards in front of my rig and piled up in the road. I stopped, gat out and looked to see where the hunter was. He was 400 yards up in the clear cut. The buck was flailing around on the road and was about to drop over the edge, which was practically a straight down drop of about 1/4 mile. I pumped a round into it and it died immediately. The guy comes flying off of the hill cusssing and screaming thet it was his buck and that I was stealing it. I had to calm him down and tell him that I did it to keep it from rolling to the bottom of the canyon on he other side of the road and that I had no intention of taking his buck. He was real happy then. We loaded the buck in the back of my rig and I gave him a ride back to his. Lucky him because it would have been a 2 mile hike straight up. The guy offered me $50 but I took a beer off of him instead.
I dont understand the mentality of these douches that steal other peoples animals. I guess that they usually arent good enough hunters to get their own so they have to steal or poach. Thats poor sportsmanship at its finest.
Eric

 

[Cooter]

Your brother got shafted. Don't you just love dealing with idiots with a foul mouth? Personally, I think I would have had the guy with the big mouth spitting teeth like hominy, just to see how tough he really was. Now if the Knack was there, all hell would have broken loose.
I just hate dealing with a-holes. Sorry about getting hosed.

 

[etoh]

We had a cow elk stolen out of hunting camp several years ago but buy a smarter class of thieves. They waited for us to get it off the mountain and skin it before they took it.

 

[nripepi]

If it were only hit once, then it is definately your brother's buck. The best solution would have been for both sides to unload their rifles, set them on the grown, follow the blood trail to confirm your brother hit it, then skin the animal to see how many bullet holes were in it and if they were lethal shots and from what side they entered the deer.

It is tough to be rational when the heat is on like that though.

I feel for your brother, I lost a large 10-point whitetail with very similar circumstances and at the time I never thought to skin the deer to confirm it was only hit once.

Next time I'll know.

 

[beaner]

Hell no it isn't right, and because this hasn't happened to me I don't know how I would react. I heard of a similar thing happen to a buddy in AZ after he shot his first elk with his bow a few years ago. After the hit, he waited the mandatory 30 min he had been taught before trailing only to find two knuckle heads elbow deep in his bull gutting it. Apparently it died w/in sight of a logging road and two road hunters saw it go down and raced over and tagged it. He had the blood trail and bloody arrow to prove it, yet they swore up and down it was their elk and would not give it up. He called G&F and they didn't even try to help him out.

I have another friend who's Dad guides in CO told me his Dad was threatened by some outfitters if he and his customers didn't leave their area. Granted this is second hand info so I take it with a grain of salt.

Your brother probably was smart walking away even though it was a tough thing to do. Some day those idiots will get what is coming to them.

 

[kingfish]

No it's not right but it's not worth risking your life for either....

 

[IDkTm]

In the situation you describe your brother got shafted.

A few years ago I was hunting with a friend. We heard alot of shooting(5-6 shots) a ways off from us, but kept with our original plan. After probably a half hour to 45 minutes we jumped a bull in some thick stuff, it ran about 40 yards stopped and my buddy put one shot behind the sholder and another at the base of the head killing the bull. When we got up to it a guy came down off the hill and said he'd shot it earlier that morning, the shooting we'd heard, and had been following it. He'd hit it once low in the paunch and the bull wasn't showing much effect. He was shooting at it at what he figured was 500 yards and the previous day had wrecked his four wheeler, messed up his sholder and tossed his rifle off in the process, he said he had no idea where it was shooting since the wreck. We tagged the elk and he didn't really complain, said he was glad someone got it. I was personally happy that slob didn't get the elk.

 

[TheKnack]

Cooter-LMAO
I knew you would bring up my name in this somehow. LOL

But in a way Cooter is right I think I would have had to of (talked) some since into the knuckleheads.
Guaranteed those guys split right after they got the deer out of the area. What a couple of idiots.
Someone like that does deserve to get their block knocked off to teach them a lesson.IMO

Sorry they got away with your buddies deer.
Best regards,
Jerry

 

[Jake_Sorensen]

Something like this happened to my dad and my uncle a few years ago, I was over a few ridges so I didn't see it happen, but my uncle and dad were hiking along a hill and saw a decent 5 point bull come out of some trees feeding rite below a 10 or 15 foot cliff and they said there was a hunter about 250-300 yards up hill and there was no way he could have seen this bull, and it was about 600 yards away from my dad and uncle so they worked their way down the the hill they were on to the bottom of this canyon and shot about 200 yards up hill, so my uncle shot and hit it behind the shoulder the bullet had went in and came out the other side. My dad said that as soon as the bullet hit him bull just fell over and died immediatly so they started working thier way up the muddy hill cause it had been raining all day and they saw the guy that had been sitting above this ledge come down and look over the edge of the cliff then he came running around the edge of the cliff and got to the elk right before my dad and uncle got to it and as soon as the got close to it the guy put his gun up to his shoulder and was like get out of here this is my elk, I shot this elk and the guy haden't even shot 1 shot and my dad was like oh ya well lets see where were you at when you shot and he was like right up there and my dad was like okay were did you hit it at and the guy was like it doesen't matter this is my elk and so my dad went up to and the guy just kept following them with his rifle pointed at them and so my dad said well if you shot this elk from up there I wanna know what kind of bullet you have that will curve like that to hit it here from up there cause if look at it right you should have hit here on its back were theres no bullet holes and to think of it I didn't even here you shoot and right then the guy flipped a bullet in the chamber and said if you don't get outta here right now the elk won't be the only thing that I gut today so they were like what ever buddy if it means that much to you, then you can have it see ya in a little bit so they started to haul butt out of the canyon and radioed us and told us to ride to the trucks and get a cop or game warden, fish cop or whatever you wanna call them then to meet them at the bottom of this canyon so we went and called the dfw and they said they would have a ranger up there as soon as possible(3 hours later) a ranger came by the time we got up to were they had gone the guy had already left so they explained what happened were the guy was and what he looked like, and the ranger said that they would find him that they had a check point at the bottom of the road were everybody goes out and that they would probably find him then and that they would check out the carcass and get my uncle his elk back regardless of whether he got another one or not, but anyway to make a long story short my uncle and my dad got a letter in the mail saying that they might call on them to testify against this guy in court, but they never got a call and my uncle never got the rack back or anything and he didn't make to much of a fuss about it cause he shot that they said was just as big a couple days later. But man what the heck is up with guys like this. It makes me sick. I feel for your bro man.

Jake

 

[Cooter]

See? What did I tell you? If the Knack was with your broher on that hunt, your brother would have gotten his deer and Jerry would have gotten a summons. Gotcha Jerry!

Coot

 

[kingfish]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-03 AT 12:39PM (MST)[p] Let me tell you a little story I heard lastnight...I was at my sons football practice and began talking to one of the other dads..It was cold out and both of us where wearing camo jackets mainly because they are the warmest jackets either one of us own...I struck up the conversation because he looked like he enjoyed hunting.. To make a long story short we small talked for awhile and then he told me about a best friend of his that was MURDERED while hunting about 10 years ago...The story was extremely interesting but I'll cut to the chase...His buddy was attacked and knifed by three individuals that he had argued with a couple days earlier over WHO'S bull was it...The three where caught and tried but where later found innocent by means of self defense..No witnesses!!!. There was evidence that the three had laid in wait for this guy and attacked him but without witnesses it was just speculative...The victim had bruises around his wrist and his genetals were extremly swollen... and had practically been gutted....(stabbed with a knife) These scumbags lied and got away with murder...The gentleman that was telling me this story is genuine and devistated by the loss of his best friend ten years ago....Like I said before...It's not right but is sure not worth dieing for....

 

[Hawkk33]

those same a-holes are breeding (albiet with their sisters and other close relatives) and passing on those techniques to their offspring thats the really disturbing part.

 

[Clyde Hollinger]

Thanks for all the replys fellas! Well, I wish I had good news to pass on but nothing has come of this ordeal. Yeah, I wish my brother would have called me as soon as it happened. I work for the Sheriff's Office. And Me, the Game Warden, and a few other Deputies would have been all over these guys! Sad thing is he didn't get a plate number. He sat by their truck for a while but, decided to leave. We wouldn't have just went there in an attempt to get the deer back, but would have given this guy a night in the ol' "Grey Bar Motel" for the threat that was made. Yeah, this guy sounded like a real peice of work, and a true outdoorsman! Funny thing is you guys nailed it right on the head. These guys were on, and never left, their four wheelers! Truely dedicated hunters! But, hey according to one of them they had "been watching" this deer all year! Um, yeah, ok! I spent countless hours in this canyon this year, but I never seen them! Oh Well, I guess! Chalk this one up to, "bad luck"??? But, thanks guys for letting me know that there are still some "good" guys out there! Take care!
Elkster

 

[cmiddleton]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-03 AT 08:08PM (MST)[p]I'd have taken his rifle and broke around a tree then stomped his butt wont to see someone go bulistic try threatening me the deer i would have gotten over the threat with a gun would have been his death warrent he better have been willing to go threw with it because i wont make idal threats if i say it i will back it up.if he would have raised his rifle i would have to defend my self and i dont miss. the deer would have ment i got to keep hunting and i can do that the threat would have been different he wouldn't have lived threw it unless he was ready to follow threw which i dought he would. so he would have gone home without a gun and his buddy wouldn't have backed him up if he knew what was right you could bet he knew his buddy was in the wrong
I was working on a military base and digging around a high security phone line the military police told me that if i cut the line they would come point m-16's at me i went nut and told them if i do cut it it will be a accedent and if they point it at me they better be willing to use it you never point a gun at anything unless you are going to kill it and i will break any misshandled firearm after they saw my temper they backed down and removed there threat then i dug it up and didn't damage it.
my son and nephuw will vowch for me on that feeling they lost every toy gun they ever pointed at anyone and understand that they would loss there real ones just as fast.
the deer i would let slide the threat would have not have been forgiven it would have been tried. who wonts to live forever anyway. i would have told them to take back the statement and they can have the deer but if they dont then draw.

 

[Gator]

You do know that they will be back on that same hillside next year looking for another big one since their luck was so good, so you have a whole year to plan on running back into them(where are you going to be),This time I'm think you should have them arrested for threating you, If it turns into a felony their hunting rights are gone for life because they can't own a gun, no more problems with his bunch. Video cameras are worth their weight in gold for getting these type of guys caught.