dfowler08x
Active Member
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- 118
Anyone look at the ODFW tag proposals for deer tags this year yet? Doesnt look good. We need to do something about the quality of our herds.
Dave
Dave
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- Thread starter dfowler08x
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silverlake176
Active Member
- Messages
- 284
Yeah I was just on ODFW web page and was looking at proposed 2008 deer tag numbers. For my area in South-Central Oregon it looks like they cut deer tag numbers in the Keno, Klamath, and Interstate units by a couple hundred a piece. I like the fact that they atleast cut tag numbers, but still don't think they cut deer tag numbers enough. I agree that hunters need to do something about the quality of our herds. I doubt that in the near future that ODFW will do anything to improve the quality of our deer herds. With that said, I believe that it will have to be the hunters commitment to pass up yearling bucks in order to improve hunting opportunities. Hopefully hunters here in Oregon will recognize that our deer numbers are in trouble and only pull the trigger on good quality bucks and let the yearling bucks grow to maturity.
CAelknuts
Moderator
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- 3,825
Perhaps you guys could become more activist in waterhole construction, range re-seeding, and especially PREDATOR CONTROL. Some of the deer associations in other states have begun doing this work and while it won't acheive results overnight, you'll see meaningful improvements in a few years. I know how you guys feel about predators, as I live in California and we have a lot of the same problems. Both states need to do more to control predators, but I think it would really help in Oregon since you guys have so much unpopulated country in the southern and eastern portions of the state.
lostinOregon
Very Active Member
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- 2,021
As long as ODFW receives most of their funding through the sales of tags and licenses you will not see a change in the quality of animals in Oregon. When you have for example 5,000 tags for Ochoco deer it doesn't matter how many other predators there are, that is way too many of the two legged type. Just look at the tag numbers, good god there isn't that many bucks in the entire unit.
Rich
Rich
H
huntindude
Guest
There isn't that many deer in the entire unit.
ODFW has a simple way of setting tag numbers:
Take your budget , divide it by the price of the tag, and presto you have your tag quota.
ODFW has a simple way of setting tag numbers:
Take your budget , divide it by the price of the tag, and presto you have your tag quota.
H
HKShooter
Guest
ODFW has run our big game numbers into the dirt. Our big deer herds are gone and the elk numbers are shrinking drastically.
My two cent solutions:
#1 Increase predator control. Allow baiting and dogs again.
#2 Decrease tag numbers and party size numbers.
#3 Increase CA's fees (sorry CA). OR is way too cheap.
#4 Tougher poaching penalties (including Reservation people).
I know this stuff isn't as easy as it sounds, but the ODFW has to do something or OR will turn into a WA. And we don't want that! All the Washingtonians come to OR to hunt because WA is so bad. It won't be long before CA and WA stop coming to OR because of the poor opportunities here.
I like the Utards ideas and passion about their herds. Maybe The Tards could teach the ORtards a thing or two about managing our game. At least they have passion.
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
My two cent solutions:
#1 Increase predator control. Allow baiting and dogs again.
#2 Decrease tag numbers and party size numbers.
#3 Increase CA's fees (sorry CA). OR is way too cheap.
#4 Tougher poaching penalties (including Reservation people).
I know this stuff isn't as easy as it sounds, but the ODFW has to do something or OR will turn into a WA. And we don't want that! All the Washingtonians come to OR to hunt because WA is so bad. It won't be long before CA and WA stop coming to OR because of the poor opportunities here.
I like the Utards ideas and passion about their herds. Maybe The Tards could teach the ORtards a thing or two about managing our game. At least they have passion.
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
ricochet
Active Member
- Messages
- 468
I agree something needs to be done but your #1 and #4 are out of the ODFW's hands. They can't overturn a law passed by a statewide referendum, and they can't force judges to give meaningful fines.
IMO predation is our biggest problem and under current law there isn't much that can be done. We should eliminate the cougar tag, only require a hunting license to shoot them. If the loss of revenue bothers you, then lets add a dollar or two to the hunting license cost. Let's also eliminate the cougar bag limit. If a hunter wants to shoot five or ten cats, and he's good enough at calling or however he manages to find them, he's got my blessing. Without the use of hounds we can not control cougar numbers, but let's do everything we can to give our deer and elk herds a fighting chance.
Anyone serious about seeing change in Oregon's big game management needs to do two things: Contact the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission and express your views (i.e. The ODFW recommends tag numbers but the commission actually sets them) and (2) be ready to reach for your wallet because change isn't going to come easy and it sure as h.. ain't gonna be cheap!
Like most other areas in life, passion comes with a price tag.
IMO predation is our biggest problem and under current law there isn't much that can be done. We should eliminate the cougar tag, only require a hunting license to shoot them. If the loss of revenue bothers you, then lets add a dollar or two to the hunting license cost. Let's also eliminate the cougar bag limit. If a hunter wants to shoot five or ten cats, and he's good enough at calling or however he manages to find them, he's got my blessing. Without the use of hounds we can not control cougar numbers, but let's do everything we can to give our deer and elk herds a fighting chance.
Anyone serious about seeing change in Oregon's big game management needs to do two things: Contact the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission and express your views (i.e. The ODFW recommends tag numbers but the commission actually sets them) and (2) be ready to reach for your wallet because change isn't going to come easy and it sure as h.. ain't gonna be cheap!
Like most other areas in life, passion comes with a price tag.
H
huntindude
Guest
The time we should have demanded action has long passed. as long as we approve of the way ODFW manages game and beg for what they give us nothing will change. that's why I gave up on OHA long ago, ODFW needs our support but OHA is just a cheerleader for whatever ODFW does and that's not much.
I'm an eastern Oregon native and I don't know how many of you hunt other states but out of the 8 states I hunt Oregon is BY FAR THE WORST. that's sad and it shouldn't be. the only good thing about it is when you draw and hunt another state you have a great time, you really appreciate it.
I'm an eastern Oregon native and I don't know how many of you hunt other states but out of the 8 states I hunt Oregon is BY FAR THE WORST. that's sad and it shouldn't be. the only good thing about it is when you draw and hunt another state you have a great time, you really appreciate it.
H
HKShooter
Guest
Not sure what Wapiti is saying and it's Wenaha not Weneha. But regardless of what one thinks of our best unit for a trophy bulls, we need to do a better job of managing the rest of the state. Especially, the EASTERN half. I grew up watching the Interstate herd. Herds of HUNDREDS would migrate through our property and now, you'll be hard pressed to see a herd of 25- 50. We used to go count the dozens of bucks on Sundays. Oregon has managed its herds poorly in the last 20 years. I hunt many other states and see the quality and quantity of the deer and elk and it makes me sick that Oregon doesn't have either to offer! Our children better be applying for other states 'cause I don't see Oregon getting better without MAJOR changes to its wildlife management policies. IMHO.
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
H
huntindude
Guest
Getting rid of lions would be the best first step but that's one thing you can't do much about or blame ODFW for. I used to go up around Izee in the winter and see thousands of deer, now you see a few hundred if you're lucky and lots of cat tracks.
The other thing that we as Oregon hunters could do is ask for more quality, but as a gammey told me one time most Oregon hunters would rather kill a forkie every year than a 4 point every other year. it's quantity over quality for most people, but they're getting niether anymore. still just like in the Ochoco unit there are more people trying to draw a camping tag than there are to go around, even with 5,000 camping tags issued. maybe ODFW is giving the mass what they want and we just aren't up to speed I don't know.
Anyway you slice it Oregon hunting is lacking, I just put in for the better hunts and if I don't draw I know I'm not missing anything on the ya'all come now hunts.
The other thing that we as Oregon hunters could do is ask for more quality, but as a gammey told me one time most Oregon hunters would rather kill a forkie every year than a 4 point every other year. it's quantity over quality for most people, but they're getting niether anymore. still just like in the Ochoco unit there are more people trying to draw a camping tag than there are to go around, even with 5,000 camping tags issued. maybe ODFW is giving the mass what they want and we just aren't up to speed I don't know.
Anyway you slice it Oregon hunting is lacking, I just put in for the better hunts and if I don't draw I know I'm not missing anything on the ya'all come now hunts.
O
Oregonbowhunter
Guest
HK, as soon as you can figure out how to get the voters of Oregon to over turn the ban on hunting cougars with hounds let me know, LOL! I doubt very much that will ever happen. As for Utah, I don't know if I would go too far to say they do a good job managing their deer herds. Everyone sees the huge bucks and bulls that come out of Utah but a lot of them are coming off of units that only give a couple tags. Have you ever taken a look at how long it takes a Resident of Utah to draw a premium elk tag? Longer than it takes us to draw the Wenaha. I for one would rather not go that road. Waiting a year or two is one thing but 10 or 12 years on most units? No thanks. The model we should be after is Colorado. They have more people than we do and more hunters than we do. They have much more severe winters also. They have archery, muzz, and 3 rifle seasons for deer and elk. How is it with all that they still have elk and deer coming out their ears? They have twice the elk we do and most are on the west half of the state! They also produce the most P&Y deer of all western states.
So how do they do it? Well I would say they have better habitat for one. Have you ever looked at a map of Colorado and a map of Oregon side by side? In CO there might be a road here or there and in Oregon it's a maze of roads everywhere. There is virtually no place in Oregon that you can't drive to, compared to CO. We also issue far too many rifle tags for our given deer numbers. Like someone mentioned, the Ochoco unit gives out 5000 deer tags, don't you think that's a bit excessive?
I use to hunt the Fort Rock unit for achery. We use to count several hundred deer in a weekend 10 years ago, now maybe 5 or 6. There are no tracks even. I mean it is beyond belief! Where did they go. My personal opinion is the "Reservation People" down there. They are unregulated and kill and kill and kill. I know a state cop that patrolled down there, he said he would see big bulls and bucks in the back of trucks full of Natives out of season all the time. He said he couldn't do anything about it, his hands were tied. It really irritated him. We have too many issues that have come together to make one big problem and it's a tough one to solve. In my opnion the best thing we can do for a start is road closures. Close off secondary and tertiary roads and leave open main roads or spurs that go somewhere. It's totally unnecessary to have a road system where you can't walk a mile without hitting a road.
So how do they do it? Well I would say they have better habitat for one. Have you ever looked at a map of Colorado and a map of Oregon side by side? In CO there might be a road here or there and in Oregon it's a maze of roads everywhere. There is virtually no place in Oregon that you can't drive to, compared to CO. We also issue far too many rifle tags for our given deer numbers. Like someone mentioned, the Ochoco unit gives out 5000 deer tags, don't you think that's a bit excessive?
I use to hunt the Fort Rock unit for achery. We use to count several hundred deer in a weekend 10 years ago, now maybe 5 or 6. There are no tracks even. I mean it is beyond belief! Where did they go. My personal opinion is the "Reservation People" down there. They are unregulated and kill and kill and kill. I know a state cop that patrolled down there, he said he would see big bulls and bucks in the back of trucks full of Natives out of season all the time. He said he couldn't do anything about it, his hands were tied. It really irritated him. We have too many issues that have come together to make one big problem and it's a tough one to solve. In my opnion the best thing we can do for a start is road closures. Close off secondary and tertiary roads and leave open main roads or spurs that go somewhere. It's totally unnecessary to have a road system where you can't walk a mile without hitting a road.
D
drannan
Guest
Post #8 made more sense then the first few sentences of post #9....silly to blast people for spelling if your grammer sucks.
Yeah the WenAha is a good unit. I'm sure H-dude and WapitiBob would hunt it if they drew it......But since it takes a lot of points, I think, and obviously other people agree, that it's better to hunt just about any other state until you draw the wenaha or walla walla. Most people on MM seem to be past the point of shooting forked horns and being excited about OPPORTUNITY, which is about all that Oregon offers. And the people in this state, and the people they elect, are not likely to make any great changes in the near future if ever. The wenaha is only great bull hunting because they wanted to study calf recruitment, not because they wanted to increase quality...
Yeah the WenAha is a good unit. I'm sure H-dude and WapitiBob would hunt it if they drew it......But since it takes a lot of points, I think, and obviously other people agree, that it's better to hunt just about any other state until you draw the wenaha or walla walla. Most people on MM seem to be past the point of shooting forked horns and being excited about OPPORTUNITY, which is about all that Oregon offers. And the people in this state, and the people they elect, are not likely to make any great changes in the near future if ever. The wenaha is only great bull hunting because they wanted to study calf recruitment, not because they wanted to increase quality...
H
HKShooter
Guest
drannan,
I can see your Journalism Degree trumps mine, so please correct my grammer or is that GRAMMAR. Please. I just didn't get what wapiti was saying. It read to me that wapiti was ripping on our only trophy bull area. And if one is going to rip on the only bragging unit we have in Oregon, then at least spell it correctly. After all, it would lend credence to your argument. All I'm saying is the "opportunity" is also dwindling. Quality and quantity are diminishing and have been for many, many years. But you might be too young to have seen the deer herds that used to migrate throughout Oregon.
I would agree that Colorado is doing a good job. Look at the record books from 10 years ago and tell me how many P&Y elk and deer came from Utah...and look now. The Utah contingent is passionate and I believe they are going to keep improving the overall big game hunt for everyone...and I feel Oregon is going the opposite direction.
Furthermore, a Dangling Participle is real.
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
I can see your Journalism Degree trumps mine, so please correct my grammer or is that GRAMMAR. Please. I just didn't get what wapiti was saying. It read to me that wapiti was ripping on our only trophy bull area. And if one is going to rip on the only bragging unit we have in Oregon, then at least spell it correctly. After all, it would lend credence to your argument. All I'm saying is the "opportunity" is also dwindling. Quality and quantity are diminishing and have been for many, many years. But you might be too young to have seen the deer herds that used to migrate throughout Oregon.
I would agree that Colorado is doing a good job. Look at the record books from 10 years ago and tell me how many P&Y elk and deer came from Utah...and look now. The Utah contingent is passionate and I believe they are going to keep improving the overall big game hunt for everyone...and I feel Oregon is going the opposite direction.
Furthermore, a Dangling Participle is real.
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
O
Oregonbowhunter
Guest
You don't have to be an old fart to have known what the migrations were like. I remember just 10-12 years ago going to Summmer Lake in November to go duck hunting and seeing deer everywhere, they were like fleas there were so many. Monster bucks everywhere. This was between Lapine and Silver Lake. There were even bick old bucks chasing does right through the little town of Summer Lake. It wasn't that long ago.
I would think that they would have cut cow tags more on the eastside but oh no we need money. I was dissappointed in the tag numbers. I thought they might cut the tag number more. Oregon would be the bottom of the barrel for me to hunt and I live here in eastern oregon. It is amazing that any non residents put in for oregon.
LAST EDITED ON May-27-08 AT 00:19AM (MST)[p]
The Wenaha is a Trophy unit" simply because the ODFW limited tags because of low calf recruitment. That low recruitment coupled with 200 spike tags will eventually put an end to the "trophy" status of the Wenaha.
Yes, it's the best unit in OR but it pales in comparison to both NM units I've hunted. Would I hunt it? I already have. As have 4 friends of mine.
Oregon is an "opportunity" state. Until the Commission is replaced along with its mindset, it will remain an opportunity state.
The Wenaha is a Trophy unit" simply because the ODFW limited tags because of low calf recruitment. That low recruitment coupled with 200 spike tags will eventually put an end to the "trophy" status of the Wenaha.
Yes, it's the best unit in OR but it pales in comparison to both NM units I've hunted. Would I hunt it? I already have. As have 4 friends of mine.
Oregon is an "opportunity" state. Until the Commission is replaced along with its mindset, it will remain an opportunity state.
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,078
LAST EDITED ON May-27-08 AT 11:27PM (MST)[p]HKS, I have no problem with increasing NR fees in Ore but give us a true 10% of the tags. I apply cause for $100.00 I can apply for deer, elk and antelope points and a lottery chance @ a sheep tag. For $50.00 more I'd burn my points (28 total) and get out. Less revenue in the long run may result in an increase in YOUR fees!!
Now if i knew I was being treated like equal to every other state, the $50.00 wouldn't even faze me.
(in reference to post #5)
Now if i knew I was being treated like equal to every other state, the $50.00 wouldn't even faze me.
(in reference to post #5)
H
HKShooter
Guest
Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to OTC Oregon. In my experience, Colorado and Idaho offer better opportunities with a better chance at a decent bull. Don't get me wrong I love hunting my home state, but IMHO if I was a nonres and going OTC, I'd pick Idaho, Colorado and Wyoming before Oregon.
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
>Honestly, I don't know why anyone
>would want to OTC Oregon.
>In my experience, Colorado
>and Idaho offer better opportunities
>with a better chance at
>a decent bull. Don't get
>me wrong I love hunting
>my home state, but IMHO
>if I was a nonres
>and going OTC, I'd pick
>Idaho, Colorado and Wyoming before
>Oregon.
>
>
>HK
>
Yep.
>would want to OTC Oregon.
>In my experience, Colorado
>and Idaho offer better opportunities
>with a better chance at
>a decent bull. Don't get
>me wrong I love hunting
>my home state, but IMHO
>if I was a nonres
>and going OTC, I'd pick
>Idaho, Colorado and Wyoming before
>Oregon.
>
>
>HK
>
Yep.
D
drannan
Guest
This thread has come full circle with everyone in agreement. Oregon sucks for OTC. We're all puttin in for points and hunting other states.....nothing will change until we force some changes. I for one am so busy I don't get involved like I should.....I just hunt other states and wait for the good units here......who has time and effort to force the changes? We need a Don Peay for Oregon......I wish it was me.
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