Unit 45 DOE HUNT F&G Response to email

muleybucks

Member
Messages
7
To everyone who was concerned with this:

When this hunt "idea" was announed, I emailed my thoughts to Jon Rachel and Regan Berkley with Idaho Fish and Game. They were supposedly in charge of this and were referred to me as the "points of contact". The email was sent before the commissioner's meeting with hopes that they would reconsider the hunt. It did no good.

Below is my email to them, and secondly the reply I recieved from Regan Berkley. As is usually the case with Fish & Game (not always because there are some good eggs there), their response was horribly apathetic.

My email to them:

Please consider allowing hunters with regular season controlled antlerless tags from unit 39/43/44/45/48/52 which were previously unsuccessful, the first opportunity at the following hunt, if approved.
First off, as an avid mule deer hunter, I have seen our state?s mule deer quality and quantity diminish over the past 15 years. I understand the issues Fish and Game will face with the loss of winter habitat by this fire as well as the attempt to displace these animals. In truth, this likely needs to be done and having a hunt is likely the best way to accomplish this. I would support this hunt by either making it a ?youth or senior? opportunity given the relative ease of the hunt and the likeliness of finding animals on their winter grounds. If this isn't a youth/senior opportunity, please consider an archery or muzzleloader opportunity to decrease the ?effectiveness? compared with today?s modern rifles and their accuracy.

For the record, I greatly disagree with further reduction of our deer herds, especially on their winter grounds when we are normally being cautioned to ?leave deer alone? because they need to save valuable stored fat to make it through the winter. Now, we propose to run them around a bit (displace) being chased by hunters for another month during a critical time of year. This seems contradictory to their overall survival.

Here?s an idea: Set up a small feed site and every few days, use the net cannon on them, then strategically move the deer to places which have sustainable winter grounds rather than continue to take more deer. Also, consider adding a ?surcharge? to deer tags in the units from which these deer come to help pay for future winter ground restoration or feeding, rather than further reduction of the deer numbers. As a life-long Idaho resident and avid hunter, if things get any worse, I won't be buying tags in years to come.

__________________________

Regan's reply to me:

Thanks for your email regarding the proposed extra antlerless hunting opportunities in a portion of Unit 45. I think your idea of allowing hunters with controlled antlerless tags from the units you listed has a lot of merit. After all, many of the deer from those units winter in Unit 45. I think it would be difficult to administer from a couple of standpoints: first, many of the antlerless hunts you listed end the day before the first Unit 45 hunt begins, so hunters may not know whether they're successful or not until that date. Second, and perhaps more importantly, we rarely know whether a hunter has been successful until quite some time after their hunt, so contacting the unsuccessful hunters specifically would likely not be possible within the timeframe we're working under. As this is an extra tag, hunters who drew the hunts you listed are certainly eligible for those hunts (should they be approved), but I don't know that we have a way to grant preference to unsuccessful hunters from those units.

I appreciate your comments on reducing deer herds while simultaneously asking the public to reduce disturbance, and I agree that it can look like we are contradicting ourselves. However, I feel that both components you mentioned (some additional harvest, and minimizing winter disturbance) are important measures to take, and are not necessarily at odds with one another. The goal of additional harvest is to reduce the deer herd somewhat prior to winter, so that fewer deer are competing for the scarce resources remaining after a devastating fire. The Blair Fire burned almost 40,000 acres this August ? unfortunately, that 40,000 acres was one of the densest areas of wintering deer in Southern Idaho ? over 5,000 deer wintered in the burned area every year. This winter, they will undoubtedly try to find somewhere else to go. However, most of the nearby areas that still have forage are already pretty packed with deer during the winter. We expect that we will see higher than usual winter mortality this year, as some deer simply will not find an adequate alternative area to winter. Rather than incur all that additional mortality after those deer have competed for winter range, and eaten the scarce remaining forage all winter, we'd like to offer hunters the opportunity to harvest some prior to winter. Some additional harvest will also reduce the sheer numbers of deer that will potentially depredate nearby croplands or cause collision risks on the interstate.

We are also considering winter closures, to minimize disturbance. The goal of this is three-fold: 1.) we want to give the deer that head into winter the best possible chance of surviving, 2.) we want to provide secure ?refuge? areas for deer that are far from farmers? fields, and 3.) we want to provide secure areas that are far from most major roadways, including I-84.

You can already see we're hoping to work a fine balance here: we expect to see higher deer mortality this winter, but we'd like to minimize it as much as possible, while still aiming to keep the deer herd in balance with the available habitat, which unfortunately was just reduced by half.

As for feeding, it isn't off the table. However, we don't want to keep the deer herd artificially high in the face of a long recovery from this fire, so we'd like to avoid feeding if we can. If we keep the deer population high by feeding for a year or two, then stop feeding, we'll have even more deer in that area?.and we'll still be missing a huge chunk of winter range, as rehabilitation efforts will take a decade or more. This will compound some of the problems I described above ? few deer will get enough to eat during winter, depredations will increase, road and interstate mortality will become an even bigger concern. However, we will consider some strategic feeding if we begin to see serious problems down by the interstate.

This is going to be an adaptive process ? this year will teach us a lot about where the deer will go when they get to the burn and discover it's of no use to them, what mortality we might expect in coming years, how to structure harvest to help this deer herd recover as quickly as possible, in light of a major reduction in habitat. Please feel free to call me if you'd like to discuss this further.

Regan Berkley
Regional Wildlife Biologist
Magic Valley Region
324-4359
 
Well what did you expect? "hey guys here is an email from a "life long hunter" and he is ticked off about .... Oh, well if he is a life long hunter, then we should not implement the plan that all of these life long wildlife biologists have come up with and put his in place...."

The fact that you even got a responce, would seem to counter the apathetick comment. The responce answered your comments/questions pretty dang good. You just don't like the reality of the situation or the answeres. For the record, I don't care for it either, but good heck man they got a job to do. It's not like your recomendations are origional or anything. What, you think feeding big game has never been tried? it has been done all over the west and proved to cause more problems than it solves, and it is expensive as hell. You think trapping them has never been tried? How many is that going to kill? How much money is that option? Why the heck would they want to make it youth or senior hunt with short range weapons, when the objective is pretty clear. (kill some 500 deer ASAP)

Good for you for taking the time to send your comments in, shows you care, and are involved. Good for him for getting back to you with a real responce, not just some form letter. Folks need to take the emotion out of it and look at it for what it is. A crappy situaion, with painful solutions.
 
Spring Bear,
Thanks so much for an honest and level headed post, there are alot of guys that are talking about resorting to "environmental extremist" type tactics to save a group of deer that are likely going to die anyway. I don't like it any more than the next guy, but as you so clearly stated "a crappy situation, with painful solutions."
 
Thanks for more in sight, makes perfect since to me. +1 Fish and Game +1 spring bear. I did however like your professionalism in the letter and the idea for youth and senior and disabled but would recommend first choice then open for everyone else because yes it is to get a job done as previously stated. Don't like it? Then shoot granny does-simple solution. I tried to apply but they said I couldn't cause I had already applied for a second deer tag earlier in the year, but have 6 others in the draw.
 
THE RESPONSE FROM THE BIOLOGIST WAS MORE ABOUT ROAD COLLISIONS AND THE FARMERS FIELDS BEING USED, THAN THE DEER DYING FROM THE LACK OF GROCERIES. HOWEVER THE LETTER WAS WELL WRITTEN AND HAD LOTS OF WORDS. SHE DOES A GREAT JOB AT THAT AND SHE SPEAKS WELL ALSO. THE HIGH FENCE ALONG PROBLEM ROADS CAN BE AN EFFECTIVE SOLUTION. IT IS EXPENSIVE , SO THIS WOULD MEAN A RE-DISTRIBUTION OF FUNDS. MAYBE WE COULD TRADE OUT A FEW HIGH PAYING F & G POSITIONS FOR A FEW MILES OF FENCE. I THINK THIS WOULD BE MONEY WELL SPENT ...WE HAVE FOLKS ON THIS SITE THAT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE AND SKILL SET TO DO A BETTER JOB MAKING THE DECISIONS FOR OUR BIG GAME,,,, AND THEY WOULD GLADLY DO IT FOR FREE !!!! NOW IS THE TIME TO REBUILD OUR BIG GAME HERDS NOT DESTROY THEM. WHY IS IT THAT THE IDAHO F & G WON'T INSTALL THE PROPER PLAN FOR A BIG GAME RECOVERY. ALL THE EXPERTS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE F & G HAVE TOLD THEM HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM AND EVERYONE IS IN AGREEMENT EXCEPT THE F & G.....ALL THE WESTERN STATES ARE WATCHING IN DISBELIEF AS THE BIG GAME HERDS IN THE GREAT STATE OF IDAHO GET REDUCED YEAR AFTER YEAR . WE HAVE ALL BEGGED, PLEADED, YELLED AND SCREAMED ALL ON THE DEAF EARS OF THE F & G.... HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO REALIZE THAT THE PLAN THE F & G IS FOLLOWING IS NOT THE CORRECT THE PLAN ? HOW IS IT POSSABLE THAT THE F & G IS RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG ? IDAHO HAS WINTERING GROUNDS THAT IN THE PAST WHERE OCCUPIED BY LARGE NUMBERS OF BIG GAME. NOW THERE ARE VERY FEW ANIMALS IN THESE AREAS. NOTHING HAS CHANGED TO THE HABITAT. THE ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED IS THE REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF ANIMALS. I AM TELLING YOU FOLKS THE IDAHO FISH AND GAME IS PEEING DOWN OUR BACKS AND THEN TELLING US IT'S RAINING. MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT !!!
BIG GAME MANAGEMENT BIOLOGIST FROM OTHER WESTERN STATES LIKE COLORADO AND WYOMING HAVE TALKED WITH THE IDAHO BIOLOGIST.THEY HAVE RECOMMENDED A DIFFERENT COURSE, THEY HAVE POINTED OUT THE PAST 15 YEARS IN REDUCTION. THEY HAVE POINTED OUT FLAWS IN THERE PLAN , AND THE IDAHO F & G HAS AGREED WITH THEM,( IN PRIVATE OF COURSE )... BUT STILL NO CHANGE !!!! WE ARE COMING OFF THE WORST WINTER IN 20 YEARS IN SOME UNITS IN IDAHO AND IN 2011 THERE WAS VERY LITTLE IF ANY REDUCTION IN ANTLERLESS TAGS. FOR MOST PEOPLE THIS DRAWS A FLAG.
THE FISH AND GAME SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO THIS STATE, AND THEY SHOULD ALSO HAVE THE COURAGE TO ADMIT THERE WRONG AND CHANGE COURSE.
 
HEY SPRINGBEAR,

YOU SAY THE F & G HAVE A JOB TO DO , WELL THEY NEED TO START DOING IT !!!! AND IF THE LAST 15 YEARS IS AN INDICATION OF JOB PERFORMANCE THEN THESE FOLKS NEED TO BE REPLACED IMMEDIATELY.
SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THE FIRE WAS A CONVENIENT REASON TO REDUCE NUMBERS EVEN MORE. WAY TO GO !!!
OVER 2 MILLION DOLLARS IN UNSOLD NR TAGS THIS YEAR ALONE. HOW MANY MILES OF FENCE AND HABITAT IMPROVEMENTS COULD WE HAVE SEEN FROM THIS MONEY ???????
WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THE EMOTION OUT OF THIS ISSUE AND ROLLOVER AND PLAY DEAD WHILE THE F & G CONTINUE TO REDUCE THE NUMBERS OF OUR BIG GAME HERDS. I LOVE THE F & G FAVORITE LINE

WE ARE MEETING THE PROJECTED POPULATION LEVELS IN MOST UNITS .

THAT LINE MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT !!!

HEY, EVERYONE IS AWARE THAT THE BUCK TO DOE RATIO IN IDAHO IS ACHEIVED BY REDUCING THE NUMBER OF ANTLERLESS NOT INCREASING THE NUMBER OF BUCKS. WHAT A JOKE !!!!! SOMEDAY SOON WE WILL HAVE 4 DOES AND 1 BUCK IN THE STATE AND THE FISH AND GAME WILL SAY WE ARE MEETING THE PROJECTED POPULATION LEVELS IN MOST UNITS. GIVE ME A BREAK !!!
 
What are your solutions Muley 204? Fish and Game is obviously short on money and we all know that Gov't agencies have a lot of fat that seem to the normal person easy to cut. Do you want to flat out close hunting down? Make everything draw only? What do you want Fish and Game do? There was a decision to make on the burned winter ground, Fish and Game made that decision whether it was the right one or not won't be known until winter is over. I don't know if you were around in the winter of 92-93 but the snow was so deep between Banks and Garden Valley that the deer and elk were stacked on the highway. They literally ate the pine needles off of the trees for about 7' off the ground, they completely ran out of food. I don't know how many died from starvation or how many were hit by cars but it was a huge hit. Additionally Fish and Game were feeding in Schoolhouse Gulch in Garden Valley. I went in there the next spring to grade the road and this is no $##### the carcasses were stacked on top of each other for the first mile of the road.I am not saying that this is going to happen in 45 but choosing to do nothing sometimes bites you in the ass. A few years ago blue tongue went thru the whitetail deer up north and took a substantial toll on the population, they have done a good job of bouncing back in just a couple of years without a reduction in tags. Why can't mule deer bounce back? There is more to the decline than F and G. overhunting units. Habitat is the biggest contributor. The winter ground will decide what it is going to carry.
 
I cant believe that F&G actually believe that 5000 deer wintered in this area.I wont believe that until they actually do a 1 by 1 count. And to say the unburned areas nearby are already packed with deer is a statement made by someone who hasnt been around this area very often.Those areas do have more deer now because of the burn but in the past they havent.15 years ago the the area east of Hill City Rd. and north of Gooding had 10 times the deer that wintered there compared to now.What happened to the deer that used to winter in those areas. Nobody seems to know but the logical answer is there just arent as many deer anymore.There is plenty of winter ground for these deer to winter in.The F&G need to open there eyes.They need to get people who are worried about OUR biggame herds before their jobs.
 
hey Miley204 maby you should write a letter....... Oh and FYI fish and game wardens to biologists don't get paid squat, I wanted to be part of the fish and game growing up till I found out how much they make. NEXT
 
HAYZEUS IS RIGHT ON...... CUSTOMWELD, I WANT TO DOUBLE THE MULE DEER POPULATION AND INCREASE THE AGE OF OUR BUCKS. THE ONLY WAY WE CAN START TO REBUILD OUR BIG GAME HERDS IS TO STOP THE HARVEST OF THE ANTLERLESS FOR A FEW YEARS AND LET THE DEER HERD GROW. WE SHOULD BE IMPROVING HABITAT AND PUTTING UP A HIGH FENCE IN AREAS THAT NEED IT. THE MONEY IS THERE THEY JUST NEED TO CANCEL A WOLF STUDY OR TWO AND WE COULD START REBUILDING OUR BIG GAME HERDS. INCREASED HARVEST OF DOGS AND CATS IS A VERY GOOD START AS WELL.
 
You guys act like this is a random decision, and that there wasn't a 40,000 acre burn in the winter range. Those deer can't lick the dirt for the next 4-5 months.

And you seem to take pleasure that the F&G has lost out on millions of dollars in tag sales due to their mismanagement(a told-you-so mentality), yet you want them do a feeding program for 5000+ deer all winter, as if that doesn't cost anything.
 
Why don't some of you go up to the wintering grounds and take a look. I think fish and game is more worried about farmers and deer on their fields than they are about managing our herds. People are acting as if there isn't a lick of ground for the deer to winter on. WRONG, there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of acres of prime wintering ground. Comparing the wintering grounds in Garden Valley to this is 100% different, deer will disperse, and the impact of the burn will be minimal.........except for the 500 does and un-born fawns that get whacked by "hunters."
 
I TAKE NO PLEASURE IN THE FACT THAT THE F&G HAS LOST OUT ON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TAG SALES DUE TO THEIR MISMANAGEMENT. IT ACTUALLY IS A VERY SORE SPOT. 2 MILLION DOLLARS IN UNSOLD TAGS JUST THIS YEAR. HOW MUCH HABITAT AND HIGH FENCE COULD THIS MONEY HAVE BEEN USED FOR. THIS IS VERY SIMPLE MATH , WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THE MONEY AND HOW IT RELATES TO THE BIG GAME HERDS IN IDAHO , YOU SEE A COUPLE THINGS, AND THAT IS QUANTITY AND QUALITY AND WHEN YOU HAVE BOTH OF THESE, YOUR TAG SALES WILL REFLECT THIS. IDAHO HAS NEITHER AND IT SHOWS THROUGH TAG SALES.
THE REASON FOR SUCH A SORE SPOT WITH THIS, IS THE FACT THAT A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS ARE EASY FIXES AND REQUIRE ONLY A FEW YEARS AND WE COULD RETURN IDAHO BACK TO A PREMIER HUNTING DESTINATION FOR ALL TO ENJOY. THE F&G IS RUNNING THE BIG GAME HERDS INTO THE GROUND.
WOULD ANYONE BE SURPRISED IF THERE WHERE 5,000 OR EVEN 10,000 DOMESTIC SHEEP IN UNIT 45 EATING UP THE WINTER GROCERIES. I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED, BECAUSE THIS IS THE KIND OF DECISION MAKING I HAVE COME TO EXPECT FROM THE F&G.

THE HIGHER UPS IN THE F&G ARE CALLING THE SHOTS. THESE GUYS ARE AS SMOOTHE AS OUR POLITICIANS IN DC.

THEIR AGENDA IS NOT THE SAME AS THE SPORTSMAN. IF IT WERE,,, YOU WOULD SEE DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY COMING INTO THE STATE THROUGH INCREASED TAG SALES, LARGER BIG GAME HERDS, LESS PREDATOR PROBLEMS, MORE HABITAT IMPROVEMENT, MORE WATER GUZZLERS IN DRY AREAS, MORE COMPLETED HIGH FENCE IN AREAS THAT HAVE ROAD ISSUES, LESS DOMESTIC SHEEP AND CATTLE ON SUMMER AND WINTER RANGE....

RIGHT NOW THE STATE OF IDAHO NEEDS EVERY BREEDING MULE DEER DOE TO MAKE BABIES.

WE ALSO NEED TO AGGRESSIVELY REMOVE/REDUCE THE PREDATORS
(LION,COYOTE,WOLF) STATE WIDE....

I DON'T BELIEVE OUR LOCAL GAME WARDEN IS TO BLAME FOR THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL IN THE LAST 15 YEARS. THE F&G HIGHER UPS ARE THE PROBLEM !!!! THEIR AGENDA IS NOT THE SAME AS THE SPORTSMAN.
 
While I agree that the F&G has not managed our herds to the best of their ability, I say lets be smart about how we respond to this problem. Lets actually be inteligent, do some actual research and find solutions. I have read many posts about this and it seems to me that most are just eager to have the lynch mob mentality.
First off it is not up to the F&G to regulate the land for open range so that would not be part of thier AGENDA. That is up to the land managing agencies, i.e. the BLM or Forest Service - U.S. Government not State. Second lets reflect on the preditor issue, especially wolves. Idaho was force fed these preditors by who... the federal government who until recently has not allowed the state F&G to regulate or manage this problem. Only adding to the overall decline in the herds. Third, lets look and see what the impact would be as far as setting up feeding stations before we might create a bigger problem. The biggest problem with feeding stations is it is expensive to feed the herds through the winter and yes F&G due to their mismanagement is 2 mill down in revenue. So where would the money to fund the program come from. Not to mention that atracting the herd into a concentrated area could have some devistating ramifications as well. Now I am in no way an expert, but with all the issues of disease in the deer herds, mostly in other states, this would only promote spread of such disease. Not that I am against setting them up but to just jump the gun and say feed them is not the solution either. Neighboring states have had severe problems with disease and I for one would not like to see this happen here in Idaho. For those of you who do not remember it was not that long ago that the WT herds up north were devistated by disease and are only now starting to make a come back.
I think that yes we do need to limit the harvest of does and smaller bucks and to continually have a 1200 antlerless permits handed out in a unit that has, over the past few years, seen a steady decline in the herd is not the best decision that F&G has or still makes. Many easter states practice the harvest of does with great sucsess. Idaho F&G needs to find the happy medium. I grew up hunting in the Sawtooths and in the past ten years have seen F&G get rid of most of the doe harvest there, except for archery season. Do you think that it has helped - NO it has not the deer herd is still in dicline. So untill we are able to come up with a well educated and actually informed solution maybe some on here should just keep thier peanut gallery comments to themselves. I am in no way trying to insult anyone I just think that too many people are willing to comment and say that they have the solution but are any of the people spitting out solutions an expert on deer herd management. Probably not. Solutions can not be hastily put into motion we need to do the research to see what is best for our state. My suggestion is for the deer hunters of Idaho to all band together and hire a private biological research team to come in and study the herd and to help up devise a solution. This would give us a scientific based report in which we could go to F&G and make an educated arguement and get things changed. Though when it comes down to it, it is the F&G commision that will make those determinations.
F&G says that there is an estimated 5000 deer that winter where the hunt is to take place. They have decided to remove 10% of the herd through this hunt. Now typically we lose between 20-40% of the herd to winter mortality but can loose as much as 70%. So maybe just maybe reducing it by 10% will not have a devistating affect. That is yet to be determined. I for one would hate to see a hard winter and because nothing was done that we stand the chance of losing that 70%. At this point no deer hunter knows wether this is a good or bad solution.
I for one have put my daughter, wife and self in for these permits and will do my part that if we are drawn to ensure that we shoot older dry does and only take those animals that no longer contribute to the herd. This way maybe there is a chance that a younger doe 2-4 yr old might survive to hopefully carry on the legacy of the once great Idaho deer herd.
 
THICK HIDE AND PLENTY OF BLOOD IS A GOOD THING PAPABEAR, I AGREE WITH SOME OF WHAT YOU HAD TO WRITE AND SOME I DID NOT . BUT ONE THING FOR SURE, WE ALL HAVE OUR OPINION ON HOW THINGS SHOULD BE. I DON'T FEEL ANYONE HAS A LYNCH MOB MENTALITY ON HERE. I DO FEEL MOST FOLKS ARE JUST FED UP AND THEY GET ABIT EMOTIONAL. I JUST TRY TO STIR THE POT AS MUCH AS I CAN AND GET FOLKS THINKING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON ...THE MAIN THING THAT I WILL DISAGREE WITH YOU ON IS THE IDEA THAT THE F&G WAS NOT IN BED WITH THE FEDS ON THE WOLF AND THE F&G IS NOT IN BED WITH THE BLM AND THE FS ON THE USE OF PUBLIC LAND FOR LIVESTOCK OVERGRAZING. I BELIEVE THEY ARE ALL IN BED TOGETHER ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THE OTHER THING IS THE THOUGHT OF ANOTHER ENVIROMENTAL STUDY AND THE THOUGHT OF ACTUALLY SPENDING MONEY ON THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. EVERYONE HAS DONE ENOUGH STUDIES. THE F&G HAVE THE ANSWERS TO THE PROBLEMS, THEY JUST ARE NOT MOVING FORWARD WITH THE PLAN. ALSO CHECK THE SURROUNDING UNITS TO YOUR SAWTOOTH AREA FOR ANTLERLESS TAGS THIS COULD BE A REASON YOU ARE NOT SEEING A DIFFERENCE IN THE SAWTOOTH AREA . THEY COULD BE MIGRATING OUT OF YOUR AREA AND THEN THEY ARE BEING HARVESTED IN ANOTHER UNIT. THE UNITS FROM 30 THRU 50 IN THE 2010 SEASON... I COUNTED ROUGHLY 4,400 ANTLERLESS TAGS AND ANOTHER 400 OR SO EITHER SEX. SOME OF THESE UNITS CAME OFF A BAD WINTER LAST YEAR WITH VERY LITTLE OR NO TAG REDUCTION FOR ANTLERLESS. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU REBUILD .
 
One thing from everyone on here is we all care and have concerns about our game herd's. There are alot of people that have spent thousands of their own dollars and F&G do have a heck of alot of answers. sprtsman of Idaho do have every right to be pissed with the state of our herd's, they have been horribly mismanaged. Hopefully you do realize deer from the sawtooths migrate all the way to this very area we're talking about!! Yes they have been netted and radio collared in the past and have gone clear to Washington Basin Germania cr. area,,,,amazing I know 90 some AIR miles. It's an awful situation but maybe this will get sportsman raising heck with the F&G....I want animals for our kids to enjoy same as we have and we're headed down a dead end tunnel the way we're going.
 
right on the $$.. the land owners around 45 DONT want the deer eating their COWS feed.. Yet those same land owners cant wait to turn their COWS out on that same BLM winter range come spring time & we all know cows dont give a rats ass what they eat ... I have been in 45 many many times in the winter & spring & have NEVER seen close to 5000 deer....Here is my main concern how the H3LL does F&G know what kind of winter we are going to have ??? usually in december the main snows have not hit!! they did the same hunt/slaughter a few years back in 32 & that unit has never recovered !!!! & again how many of these 500 does will be carrying fawns !!!
 
with some on this thread, and most everyone else on the other 45 doe hunt threads, i'd like to know where you all received your degrees in wildlife management and/or biology? i got mine out of a cracker jack box. i suspect most others did too. maybe its the right thing to do, maybe its not. but they made a decision. lets hope it works out well, and this winter is not too devastating. they have a tough job that gets criticized non stop, mostly by us, the sportsmen (myself included). its really easy to be an armchair quarterback and shout out the shoulda/woulda/coulda's and i told you so comments. and for the short comings regarding their budget, and all these great ideas about feeding, transplanting, etc., think......where is the money going to come from? dont say, "well, if they would have done this, or sold more of that.....". no, where is the cash going to come from NOW?
 
Mine came from a box of Fruit Loops...LOL. Great post Deepforks. I totally agree.
 
I WONDER IF WE WOULD BE HUNTING WOLVES IN IDAHO THIS YEAR IF THE SPORTSMAN WAS QUIET AND NEVER RAISED HIS VOICE AND NEVER MADE A NEGATIVE COMMENT. I KNOW FROM A PR STAND POINT THE F&G WOULD PERFER THAT EVERYONE AGREE WITH THE DIRECTION THEY ARE MOVING IN AND WOULD LIKE ONLY POSITIVE COMMENTS. THIS DOE HUNT IN 45 IS A VERY TOUCHY SUBJECT FOR ALOT OF FOLKS AND IT IS PILED ON TOP OF ALL THE OTHER ISSUES WE HAVE IN THIS STATE IN REGARDS TO OUR BIG GAME . PEOPLE ARE FED UP AND FURIOUS , THEY WANT SOME RESULTS NOW,, AND NOT IN THE FORM OF A 5 YEAR STUDY .

HERE IS MY POSITIVE COMMENT FOR THE F&G

I THINK THE F&G HAS MADE SOME POSITIVE MOVES RECENTLY , WITH THE SHORTER SEASON FOR MULE DEER AND CLOSURE OF ROADS/ATV TRAIL ACCESS IN SOME UNITS. GREAT IDEAS THAT WHERE ACTED UPON.

KEEP BEATING THE DRUM !!!!
 
I feel sorry for you guys, man what a mess! I thinks that's way to many does that they want to harvest. A part of me thinks there trying to capitalize on the situation money wise, tho a reduction would protect those farmers in that area from crop damage then there's a problem with trust with Game and fish. I say boycott the hunt. Good luck!

quest
 
YEAH , FULLY ENGAGED AND ANNOYING !!!!

NOW IS THE TIME TO START REBUILDING OUR BIG GAME HERDS

YOU GUYS ARE THE GREATEST, THANKS FOR CONTINUING TO HELP BEAT THE DRUM.
 
So did anyone draw this tag? I know a couple of people who put in and none drew. Figured it would be almost 100% draw.
 
My group didn't draw either. I figured it would be an easy draw... Nope. over 3000 people for the first hunt and over 1800 for the second one. I hope alot of the lurkers on MM drew to help out.
 
DO WE KNOW THE RESULTS OF THE DOE SLAUGHTER YET...WAS THE BURN AND SURROUNDING AREA THE ONLY PORTION OF UNIT 45 THAT THE SLAUGHTER TOOK PLACE ?
 
"i'd like to know where you all received your degrees in wildlife management and/or biology? i got mine out of a cracker jack box. i suspect most others did too. maybe its the right thing to do, maybe its not. but they made a decision."

i cant speak or everyone, buy myself, i do complain about the fish and game decisions because i hunt many other states and see what can be done with management. I know its not apple to apples but close.

try to convince me that if we shorten seasons or make guys hunt one area to take pressure off some animals that wouldnt help. I dont even need to get mine out of a cracker jacks box to figure that out. they are still selling the same amount of tags so it doesnt cost them any money. some season changes may affect tag sales but most would not.

in idaho i can hunt from september 15th to december 15 on a general tag! hell yes i like it, but a bigger hell yes to not allowing it.

fish and games problem is they listen too much to the surveys when guys answer that they want to hunt every year, long seasons, and shoot mature bucks... who doesnt? right? well if they actually took what they may or may no have learned in school and quit listening to us and their paychecks i think things could be a lot better around here.

yeah, there are things that are out of everyones control, ie weather and wolves, but things could be better.

anyway, not attacking you, but i think when guys complain it can be for good reason.

Travis
www.RidgelineOutdoors.com
 
GOOD POINTS MADE!!!!

NOW IS THE TIME TO START REBUILDING OUR BIG GAME HERDS

STOP THE HARVEST OF THE ANTLERLESS AND STOP WHACKING THOSE FORKY'S FOR FEW YEARS AND WATCH THIS HERD COME BACK .

NO MORE 5 YEAR STUDY, JUST COMMON SENSE

HARVEST THE DOGS AND CATS
 

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