Urine based scents now illegal in AZ

Bruinbrewin · May 1, 2013

Did any of you notice that we can no longer use urine based lures or cover scents any more in AZ? Check out the new regulations that were just released R12-4 -303.
2. An individual shall not use or possess any of the the following while taking wildlife:
c. Any lure, attractant or cover scent containing any cervid urine.

Big hit against the archery hunters folks, time to start making it to the game and fish meetings and voice our dissatisfaction with this rule.
BB

Gator · May 2, 2013

Wow NM has the same deal.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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azdogman · May 2, 2013

A little late for that. People should have been at the meetings before it was passed. Still wouldn't have made a difference though.

akamissedagain · May 2, 2013

more hunting rights chipped away! more wildlife managment with no scientific basis!

azoutback · May 2, 2013

Just another way to decrease harvest and increase permit$.

Bura Nut · May 3, 2013

alot of the urine used to make the products comes from known CWD states so this law is supposed to help keep chronic wasting out of our state. I think they made the right decision... Thanks, Allen Taylor......

pirogue · May 3, 2013

at least they left the salt and feed supplements use for agricultural purposes in there. I don't remember the last time I have hunted public land and not seen cattle, therefore, nuf said.

Bruinbrewin · May 3, 2013

Allen,
Where do you get your data from on the urine coming from CWD states?

Not to argue the point with anyone either, but you cannot transfer CWD without direct contact of exchange of fluids or possible consumption of meat from the infected carrier. The elk would have to lick my camo to come in contact to be susceptible. In 50 years of hunting I have not had one elk lick my camo.
BB

Bruinbrewin · May 3, 2013

P.S. One more item, if leaving the salt and supplements legal for baiting is better than outlawing scents, that would be 1,000 times more likely to spread CWD than an elk licking my camo. I can pretty much tell you that if an elk comes across a salt lick, they are going to give it a little lick whether it was licked by a CWD carrier or not. Just sayin!
BB

Gator · May 4, 2013

Really
Did they test some urine for CWD and found that is had some in it?????BS. Scents are a huge market you can bet your last dollar if that happen every state would ban scent being used.
Just more BS that they throw on the wall and hope some of it sticks.
scientific facts not scientific fiction.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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Bura Nut · May 4, 2013

bruin. I didn't make the law or propose the law, I tried to block the law. I posted my response from the info the game department gave me. this discussion is so very late, you guys need to jump in and get engaged before the decisions are made. there was public requests by AZGFD and alot of people tried to stop the urine ban along with baiting, salt etc....... Thanks, Allen Taylor......

azbow · May 4, 2013

"bruin. I didn't make the law or propose the law, I tried to block the law. I posted my response from the info the game department gave me. this discussion is so very late, you guys need to jump in and get engaged before the decisions are made. there was public requests by AZGFD and alot of people tried to stop the urine ban along with baiting, salt etc....... Thanks, Allen Taylor......"

Good reply Allen, wonder where everyone was when this was discussed last year. I hope that the issues of gun control bans disguised as background checks that are still very active, get people to respond to their Senators and Congressmen now and keep after them or I have the feeling that there will be many posts like this "what happened?" post, when our freedoms are lost.

Boskee · May 4, 2013

Well I'm going to say BB has a point, but then so does our AZGFD. The prions that spread CWD are immune to autoclaving (heat) and cold and can still be able to transfer the disease after laying dormant in the soil for more than a year in fact if memory serves around 3 years. The congregation and funneling of travel of the animals has been found to accelerate the spreading of the disease.

That's why feeding and other forms of attractants can facilitate the spreading of the disease by altering the travel routes of the deer. Many hunters shoot scents onto trees and in areas that will attract deer which tends to funnel them into areas that can facilitate the spreading of the disease. The prions can be transferred to the soil or vegetation and the deer pick them up on their hooves, legs or thru transmission of fecal matter, or their own urine, saliva, snot, sneezing, as they walk or bed and in some cases can turn them into an airborne particles that can be inhaled into other deer's system. These prions can also be spread from deer to deer in the grooming process and as they shake after bedding. I'm no scientist but the individual that told me this has done numerous study's for F&G departments across the nation on all types of issues like these. States that have it have a hell of a time trying to get rid of it so if our department is taking the conservative approach with our drought effected reduced herds I support their decision.

Remember many of these guys have degrees in wildlife management and many of them have advanced degrees and they are well aware of the issues other states faced with the disease. The guy that told me this had a PHD. We don't have the abundant resources that many states do when it comes to our whitetails and mule deer so on this one I think an ounce of prevention may benefit us tomorrow. Now this guy could have been blowing smoke but given his credentials and dedication to his work I think there must be something to it. Sometimes we have to look beyond just our tag and actually do what's in the best interest of the wildlife we want to hunt. Given the magnitude of the issue in some other states I seriously doubt they are misrepresenting things on the subject. My $.02

Bruinbrewin · May 4, 2013

LAST EDITED ON May-05-13 AT 00:56AM (MST)[p]Thanks for the feedback. Ya I know it's a little whining and a little late.
Allen, I do attend some of the meetings. at least a couple each year but can't make every one. I don't recall hearing anything about the scent use over the last year. Pretty much blind sided by it.
P.S. Please don't take my question as a personal attack as that was not my intent, I was just hoping that you had some info to support that the lures actually contributed to the spreading of CWD and that the lures were made from states that were known to have CWD concentrations.

I guess I would like to see more evidence why this step was necessary. I still believe that nothing is forever.If they enacted it they can also retract it. Cover scents have been used in this state and many others for a long long time. If the use of urine based lures had any impact on the spread of CWD then I wonder why we still do not have it here. I still say it's a knee jerk reaction. I'll stop by the complex next week and talk with the biologists there on the whys and what drove it. I have had some (limited and no expert) exposure to impact studies and random variables and I would really like to see the evidence to support this hypothesis. I guess one could assume that if scents are made outside of Arizona and we do not currently know of any CWD reports in our state, then by eliminating the import of possible sources of infection we reduce our risk. I would just like to find out what lead information was used to come to that determination.

Anyhow, There are other alternative scents out there that may prove to be as effective but I am old school where we used tarsal glands from the year before. Nothing like the real thing to blend in as best you can

In the mean time I guess I'll have to start trying out the laboratory scents and the scent sticks. Final Step is one of the best cover scents available, all natural and 4 different scents.
Sure gonna miss the cow in heat!
BB

Boskee · May 5, 2013

BB nothing will ever duplicate the real thing and I have used scents for years too. Sometimes we have to put our faith in the professionals to do the right thing and do what's best for the resource. Success rates can also play a big part in what's allowable and what's restricted. That could have carried some weight in the decision too. Resource numbers, especially for deer in many areas are well below what they were 10-15 years ago so taking a more conservative approach may actually be the best path for all of us.

Let us know what you find out. I'm sure many of us will be interested. By the way I'm sure what ever synthetic cover scent you come up with nobody will miss the cow's in heat more than all those bulls will!!