Utah Expo / AZ Deer Tag

[AZStickman]

I noticed on a thread in the General forum that an Arizona Deer tag was auctioned off at the recent Utah SFW Expo. I am a bit confused about this. My understanding is that the Utah SFW Expo is held to promote tourism to Utah and raise funds for Utah wildlife conservation efforts. Arizona Commissioners tags are issued to AZ conservation groups to raise money for Arizona wildlife conservation efforts. How did auctioning this tag at the SFW Utah Expo benefit AZ?....... Terry

 

[AZStickman]

Here's a link to the thread.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/19034.html

 

[264mag]

The same way they can get a CA. tule elk tag from grizzly island,sucks

 

[OutdoorWriter]

>>How did auctioning this tag at the SFW Utah Expo benefit AZ?.......<<

Every penny from the sale of that tag MUST be returned to the AZ G&FD. Unlike the UT tags where SFW gets a percentage, the AZ tags provide no such commission.


TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[AZStickman]

Thanks Tony, It seems a shame it wasn't used to help one of the local conservation groups boost banquet attendance by auctioning it off here.

 

[Generalee]

Who was the auction tag buyer for this Arizona deer tag?

 

[OutdoorWriter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-12 AT 04:46PM (MST)[p]From what I've observed over the years, the folks who can afford to bid on these high-dollar permits do not even attend the auction event; they either have a proxy there to bid, do it via phone or both. And regardless of the venue, it's often same people bidding.

The raffle ticket giveaways for guns, etc. at the banquets likely draw more folks to attend than the biggie auction tags.



TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[AZMIGHTYMULIES]

The Auction tag buyer is the same guy from last year whom was Guided by Tory Brock and Moss Back . "Ray".

 

[azbuster]

How does a tag just go floating around and land at an auction? Makes you wonder if there is not more floating around that we are unaware of here in Arizona.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-12 AT 06:45AM (MST)[p]>>How does a tag just go floating around and land at an auction?<<

As per Title 17-- the state law that regulates the AZ game dept./commission. A qualifying organization must apply to receive one of the special permits and must return all the money from the auction to the AZG&FD.

The Weier's bill -- HB2072 -- was an attempt to amend Title 17.

From Title 17:

17-346. Special big game license tags

In addition to the regular big game license tags issued under section 17-333 the commission may issue special big game license tags in the name of an incorporated nonprofit organization which is dedicated to wildlife conservation. No more than three special big game license tags may be issued for each species of big game in a license year. Notwithstanding section 17-332, subsection D, an organization which receives special big game license tags issued under this section may sell and transfer them if all proceeds of the sale are used in this state for wildlife management.

Many of the AZ-based organizations have auctioned tags for years. The first I can recall were the desert sheep permits relegated to the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society in 1984. The proceeds from it have been used for many years to help transplant sheep into areas where they had become extinct.

History of the sheep permits:

1984 64,000 (Auction) 82,350 (Raffle) TOTAL $146,350
1985 42,000 (Auction) 60,500 (Raffle) TOTAL $102,500
1986 27,000 (Auction) 62,725 (Raffle) TOTAL $89,725
1987 39,000 (Auction) 84,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $123,000
1988 47,500 (Auction) 83,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $130,500
1989 53,000 (Auction) 73,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $126,000
1990 48,000 (Auction) 82,290 (Raffle) TOTAL $130,290
1991 52,000 (Auction) 79,462 (Raffle) TOTAL $131,462
1992 68,000 (Auction) 77,403 (Raffle) TOTAL $145,403
1993 303,000 (Auction) 92,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $395,000
1994 245,000 (Auction) 99,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $344,000
1995 233,000 (Auction) 91,175 (Raffle)TOTAL $324,175
1996 285,000 (Auction) 92,400 (Raffle) TOTAL $377,400
1997 295,000 (Auction) 86,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $381,000
1998 140,000 (Auction) 80,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $220,000
1999 125,000 (Auction) 99,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $224,000
2000 162,000 (Auction) 110,000 (Raffle) TOTAL $272,000
2001 165,000 (Auction) 95,775 (Raffle) TOTAL $260,775
2002 120,000 (Auction) 89,900 (Raffle) TOTAL $209,900
2003 105,000 (Auction) 128,750 (Raffle) TOTAL $213,750
2004 65,000 (Auction) 109,225 (Raffle) TOTAL $174,225
2005 199,000 (Auction) 129,225 (Raffle) TOTAL $328,225
2006 165,000 (Auction) 111,000 (Auction) 146,525 (Raffle)TOTAL $422,525
2007 115,000 (Auction) 72,000 (Auction) 129,375 (Raffle) TOTAL $316,375
2008 137,500 (Auction) 85,000 (Auction) 119,450 (Raffle) TOTAL $341,950
2009 97,500 (Auction) 80,000 (Auction) 134,750 (Raffle) TOTAL $312,250
2010 120,000 (Auction) 90,000 (Auction) 101,075 (Raffle) TOTAL $311,075
2011 105,000 (Auction) 90,000 (Auction) 114,425 (Raffle) TOTAL $309,425

GRAND TOTAL THROUGH 2011 $6,863,280

THAT'S A LOT OF HELICOPTER TIME!

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[Zim]

I totally agree. No need to help promote Don Peay, who tried to steal 332 AZ tags!

 

[krp]

There is obviously a promotional value beyond the monetary for whatever venue auctions this tag... otherwise MDF/SFW wouldn't put the effort into acquiring it for the expo. Attendance at the local orgs banquets can be directly related to these type of tags, not so much for the buyers but the audience, and that audience buys 50 bucks worth of raffle tickets for for the guns, optics and can cozies for each additional. On the other end is a banquet that has no tags or hunts and just donated items, you might get 14 members to show.

If the same guy will buy the tag by proxy, it doesn't matter where it's sold, we should at least look into the possibility of having a local org put together a proposal to the AZG&F commission and explore if it should come back to Az.

This is one of the issues that got me an 'invite' to the ADA meeting on the 21st at Basspro in Mesa... I'll be there.

Kent

 

[OutdoorWriter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-12 AT 09:33AM (MST)[p]The ADA already has one of the special mule deer permits for auction.

Also, I believe an AZ elk tag is auctioned at the RMEF annual affair, and the same goes for an AZ sheep tag at the FNAWS gathering. Both have been place for quite a few years. There are also the same tags auctioned here, as well.

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[krp]

Yep, the ADA meeting is a watershed moment over the entire azsfw saga more than just the ADA.

Hopefully a consensus will develop that azsfw will be cut off and azsfwc will be reorganized into something controlled by the orgs and a new, fresher identity. If it gets to that point... well a mule deer tag at a new, bigger combined venue may be just the ticket.

Kent

 

[azbuster]

I am aware of the various auction tags here in Arizona for Arizona wildlife. The Arizona deer tag in question does not appear to be for Arizona wildlife but a benefit for Utah wildlife. Am I reading it wrong?

 

[krp]

All money comes back to Az from the tag sale.

The promotional value of all their tags is in attendance and money brought in from that attendance, they recieve 10% of the Utah tags but not the Az tag. If they didn't believe the Az tag added to that promotion = money, they wouldn't pursue the sale of it.

Kent

 

[azbuster]

I would think that an Arizona group would love to have this tag and the monies from the promotion.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-12 AT 03:19PM (MST)[p]Kent,

RE: ADA

I assume the meeting to take place was part of the discussion on CWT?

I quit posting there more than two weeks ago when it turned into a name-calling/insult fiasco. Lately, too many of the threads there go off the same way because of a couple dingalings who can't discuss an issue without getting personal. I don't need to waste my time reading such.

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[OutdoorWriter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-12 AT 03:33PM (MST)[p]Just received the February 2012 Sportsmen's Connection email from AZSFWC. Here's what it opens with:



Message from the Chairman

Greetings AZSFWC members! You haven't heard from us in a while, but let me assure you, our organization and member groups continue moving forward in our efforts to help wildlife and habitat, as well as keeping sportsmen and women informed on issues critical to all of us in Arizona.

Some of our members recently expressed concern with some proposed legislation, HB 2072. However, AZSFWC did not sponsor HB 2072, nor introduce HB 2072. We did hear an overview of the bill at our December Board meeting, and the Board voted to support the concept. We viewed the benefits as presented for sportsmen and women, youth, access and wildlife, not to mention Arizona's economy, as very positive.

Part of our Mission is education, and we'll endeavor to keep you informed, even on controversial subjects. Last fall we brought up the Mexican Gray wolf in one of our newsletters. Feedback on that one ran the gamut from we didn't know what we were talking about, to gratitude and thanks for the update! We'll try to keep you informed and let you decide your own position on the matter. Since that message, the USFWS continues with their wolf assessment and recovery plans, and we hope to learn more about the details in the coming weeks. In the meantime, Congress is considering legislation to move management of the wolves back to the states. And last but not least, the Center for Biological Diversity is holding a seminar next week on "Lions, Wolves and Bears". You can draw your own conclusions as to what might come out of that meeting.

In 2011, the AZSFWC/WCC distributed over $112,000 in project funds from our license plate funds. We anticipate even more funds being granted towards wildlife, habitat and education projects in 2012! We had a couple organizations decide not to join us this year, which was unfortunate. However our recruitment efforts haven't ended, and at our February Board meeting voted unanimously to bring in as new members the Arizona BASS Federation Nation, Arizona Chapter of Safari Club International and Arizona Houndsmen's Association.

As we come into the Spring Banquet Season, I would urge you to make a donation to our member organizations, and even better, attend one of their fundraising events! There is still time to attend the AZ Antelope Foundation fundraiser this weekend, and the AZ Deer Association fundraiser next weekend. Please refer to our calendar below for additional events hosted by our member groups. Help them make a difference!

Yours in Conservation, Jim Unmacht





TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[krp]

Yes, though I believe we are getting past the initial insults, which were inevitable concerning the issues and emotions... at least a group of us are trying to.

I don't have any expectations for the ADA meeting itself, just have to see how it goes. It's the collaboration before, that George from YVRGC is setting up at the Fish company restaurant inside basspro. It could be a very worthwhile brainstorming session on actions and agendas for our hunting community as a whole.

Kent

 

[krp]

And Tony, you for sure are invited to bring your insight... George is setting up reservations for 5:00ish at the restaurant. Anyone else is invited, we just need a count.

Kent

 

[Zim]

"Some of our members recently expressed concern with some proposed legislation, HB 2072. However, AZSFWC did not sponsor HB 2072, nor introduce HB 2072. We did hear an overview of the bill at our December Board meeting, and the Board voted to support the concept."

Does this guy seriously think anybody believes azsfw did not hatch this abortion???

Because they roll it out under the guise of weiers pen? This azsfw is just as honest as Don Peay.

They run like hell when they screw up Reminds me of every attorney I ever had the displeasure to work with.

Well they definitely listened to don when he set them up.

Uhhhhhhhhhh. Hey guys even if the gullible here actually believe your lies, remember when you opened shop you promised you would not steal tags for auction? What up now?

 

[OutdoorWriter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-12 AT 05:41AM (MST)[p]>>Does this guy seriously think anybody believes azsfw did not hatch this abortion??? <<

The article didn't state that. To clarify a bit -- AZSFW (Arizona Sportsmen For Wildlife) indeed hatched the bill. But this release came from AZSFWC (Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife Conservation), supposedly a separate entity. While some of the players are the same, the following groups comprise the latter:

Anglers United
Arizona Antelope Foundation
Arizona BASS Federation Nation
Arizona Bowhunters Association
Arizona Chapter of Safari Club International
Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society
Arizona Deer Association
Arizona Flycasters Club
Arizona Houndsmen's Association
Arizona Trappers Association
Arizona Trout Unlimited Council
Coconino Sportsmen
Ducks Unlimited Phoenix Chapter
Hunt of a Lifetime
Mohave Sportsman Club
National Wild Turkey Federation - Arizona Chapter
Outdoor Experience 4 All
Southwest Walleye Anglers


TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[OutdoorWriter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-12 AT 06:40AM (MST)[p]Kent,

I doubt I'll be at the meeting.

I'm been mostly ambivalent about most of the alphabet groups for a long time because they represent such a small -- and normally VERY special interest -- part of the state's hunters. And although they do some good for wildlife in general, I'm not a big fan of the auction/raffle permits anymore. When first brought forth, they were worthy of support but have since perverted hunting beyond what I consider good for the sport.

now ducking....

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

 

[krp]

I understand completely, all I did was try to inject some real evidence into the propaganda, to which I was challenged repeatedly to show up by the leadership. Anyway, many of the 'unaffiliated' want me to represent them... so I changed the focus and we will have a voice before and during their meeting.

Reading your posts for years, I knew your position as it's the same as mine generally and I respect it 100%... I was just teasing a little. If I have to go, you should too... lol

Have you seen the 5 page AZSFW statement they are going to release? Maybe it will come out today, it's interesting.

Kent

 

[Zim]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-12 AT 07:38AM (MST)[p]Not only are they in bed together, they have the same mailing address and share board members. A piece of paper does not excuse the abortion that was HB 2072. They both are guilty. They are both guilty in promising not to bring wealth tags to Arizona. They are both guilty of being the driving force behind what I consider to be the worst single event prostitution of wildlife attempt in US history. All after they promised they wouldn't, in an effort to drum up new members.

Simply setting up a seperate org on paper to deflect negative agendas doesn't cut it. That is exactly what Don Peay did when he formed Big Game Forever, apart from SFW. It's just a political joke.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-12 AT 08:08AM (MST)[p]I would like to know why both the AZSFW and AZSFWC are showing as doing business at the same address if they are two completely separate organizations. This is from The Outdoorwriter Post:
"To clarify a bit -- AZSFW (Arizona Sportsmen For Wildlife) indeed hatched the bill. But this release came from AZSFWC (Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife Conservation), supposedly a separate entity. While some of the players are the same, the following groups comprise the latter."

It would appear even if this group is a separate entity that it's an "umbrella" group of SFW that is no better than SFW when it was stated right in one of above posts that the Board voted to support that tag grab legislation!!! Anyone care to explain WTH is going on?

EDIT: I see ZIM was posting just as I was and I could have basically just said "DITTO" to his post because I agree 100% with what he just stated! It appears that all these groups are one in the same with just different atticles of incorporation or however they are set up on paper. It's exactly as ZIM stated DP did when he established BGF with Ryan Benson as another one of his stooges heading that group! This whole thing is one stinking mess!!!


EDIT: To krp: How are you privy to a five page paper written by SFW if it hasn't even been released to the masses yet? I see from a sentence in a post of yours in this thread that it appears they are the same outfit with just one letter difference in the name! Here is what you stated: "Hopefully a consensus will develop that azsfw will be cut off and azsfwc will be reorganized into something controlled by the orgs and a new, fresher identity."
If all these other groups are part of the AZSFWC, why did the Board vote to endorse the tag grab concept put out by Weiers? It would look to me like there would have been one big uproar by the various groups listed as belonging to the big organization! I'm glad I'm far removed from this whole western mess, but I will be keeping a close eye to see that no further tag grabs are attempted in ANY state!!!