Wasatch elk---Major disapointment

goofyelk

Very Active Member
Messages
1,179
I'll start by saying it's no seceret the Wasatch elk numbers
are, and have been falling for a few years now.

But holly chit, I just spent a week running all over the
south half of the unit and elk numbers are DISMAL........

The biggest disapoitment is the Utah DWR is clue-less!

Instead of cutting permits drasticly, they are ADDING permits for 2015!

UNBELIEVEABLE IMO.....!.....


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
Ya but their "model" says the elk are there. LOL
I guess we'll have to lose the entire herd in order to see management changes. Sad deal.
Zeke
 
Ya they did that with the plateau antelope herd too and almost with the Rafael antelope herd too. They rely too much on their model and really don't care if they miss 3-4 years of airplane population counts since they contract that out.
 
Maybe before everyone gets too upset you need to look into the situation and what the dwr is up agianst. By law they have to do something with the wasatch.? They are aware of what is going on. They are restricted by law as what they can do. Too many elk on private property and no way to hunt them. Don't forget those numbers count giving the wasatch too many elk. Figure a way to get the private elk out of the equation. The elk on the private property boost the numbers on the wasatch. Too many elk where we cannot hunt, no elk where we can hunt. That is the problem.?
 
Well!

If you were an Elk!

On the Wasatch!

With Who knows how GAWD-DAMNED many Permits/Hunters?

Where would you Park your Ass?


We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
By Law? What law is there about they have to do something about the elk herd?
Hell they "claim" the deer herd is getting better so what do they do? Raise the tag numbers. That makes no sence to me at all.



O--one
B--big
A--ass
M--mistake
A--america
 
State law tells the division how many elk they can have on a unit. Until that is changed the dwr must do what they can to meet the numbers. It may sound stupid but that is the way it is. Wasatch too many elk where you can't hunt, not enough where you can hunt. They all count on the wasatch unit. That is the problem. The dwr id aware and people, groups trying to fix it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-15 AT 11:20PM (MST)[p]State law because the Legislature required the DWR to establish a fixed number of elk on each unit. Same for deer. Who helps establish the fixed number for the DWR for elk? A committee made up of land owners, sportsmen, Federal agents, and at large representatives. They argue and fight for 2 or 3 months over how many elk the unit can support, after that they recommend a number to the DWR. The DWR, based on the committee's recommendation, set a number. It may or may not be identical to the number that the committee came up with but it will usually be in the ball park, plus or minus, depending on the politics, usually the land owners want less, the sportsmen want more.

The DWR then present the fixed number they think is the closest to what works for everyone in the unit, ie: the land owners, the sportsmen, and other non-consumptive citizens, to the RACs and then the Wildlife Board, allowing the public at large to support or oppose the recommendation. What ever number the Wildlife Board decides on is the State Law number, recorded in the Unit Elk Plans.

For the next five years, unless there is a change made by the Board, the DWR is required to hold elk to that number. If every single elk is on private land, with no elk on public, there is absolutely no provision is the Law that say's the Unit Plan number can be changed by the DWR.

It's a screwed up mess.

The solution, the only solution, in my opinion, is to remove all big game, that stays on private land, during the hunting seasons, from the management equation. Those animals should never be included in the number of animals on the Unit. They benefit public hunters not one bit. If we can't hunt them, we have no need for them and they should not be part of the public hunting infrastructure. They could all disappear tomorrow and it wouldn't effect public hunting in the least. Like wise, if the land owner wants to allow those herd to grow to millions, it is no concern of mine or yours because we have no access, nor will be ever have any access to them. If they live 9 months on the public land but the three months of the year (during the hunts, they live on the private, as far as sportsmen are concerned, they are private elk, and private elk only, and they mean nothing to us. Yet, these animals may be still eat public feed for 9 months and we get zero for our investment. It's wrong.

Let's stop including private land big game in public land hunting regulations. I could care less if private land has any big game or not. They cause us public land sportsmen far more problems than any benefits we will ever receive from them.

DC
 
Could one of you point me to the landowners that have all the elk? Cause all the ones I know or have taken the trouble to talk to too say they are seeing the same things the sportsmen are, less elk than they have ever had before. I've talked to a good portion of the larger landowners across the unit so someone somewhere must have an absolute BUTT TON of elk!


https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
The central RAC is recomending NO increase for LE bull permits
on the Wasatch....

Removing over a 1,000 late season cow permits as-well...

It's a start--- Now the control cow permits need to be removed.


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Anybody wanna Wager some Cash on Bets?

I'll bet they don't bring em back as quick as they Slaughtered them!





We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
It's pretty hard to bring elk back as quickly as they can kill them off!
I've got to agree with Bess on this one.
Zeke
 
Goof, why is this so unbelievable? I told you weeks ago, as soon as the harvest data came out and before the DWR recommendations were public, that tags would increase again. I know the RAC recommended no increase, but I'm willing to wager a Train Burger that the WB ignores the RAC and does the full allotment.

The WB not increasing tags would be much more unbelievable to me than if they do increase. Not saying I agree with the counts or the tag numbers. I'm just being a realist.

The Wasatch is the Provo River of elk hunting. They'll exploit it as much as possible until it no longer returns on investment.
 
TS,
Unbelievable that there's NO common sense!!!!!!

Cows completly gone off most of the unit is pretty obvious...

The Wasatch elk herd is headed in a disastrous direction.

Another year of cow control tags?????.....Game over!

4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
The Wasatch unit elk situation is somewhat of a cloudy picture to me. After listening to all the data, comments etc. its still not clear to me why the elk numbers that sportsmen are seeing are so dramatically decreased. I do not believe that the DWR folks are giving us any population numbers that they do not believe are generally very accurate. I'm beginning to think that the population on the Wasatch was been much higher than reported 10 years ago. Maybe there were actually more elk than was being reported back then. I'm not sure, but if the private land elk population is not as high as many are saying and the public land population is dramatically lower-- then where are they ? There is no question that anyone with an antlerless permit generally has no desire to climb down into some nasty dark canyon to kill a cow. They look for them within a short distance of roads. I think there is some validity to the fact that when the shooting starts elk move where they won't be pressured-- whether it be onto private land or into some deep dark canyon. I think our RAC took the right approach for this year-- kept the LE permit numbers the same as last year and voted to go along with the DWR's recommendation to reduce antlerless tags. The Elk committee will be meeting this summer and will draft the 5 year Elk plan. I think that is where much of this can be ferretted out and give the RACs the information and direction to help formulate a better way to get the Wasatch to optimum population numbers. I do know that when I asked Justin about the possibility of "out migration" of the elk onto other units that would occur during the time they did their counts, he said they were trying to see if that is a factor along with elk on private lands etc. One thing I do know is that the DWR wants to figure this out and do what's right by the sportsmen and get the Wasatch where it will be better than what it seems to be right now. The average harvest age is well over the management harvest objective, so it seems to me that there are still an ample number of older mature bulls available. I know the Elk Committee will be looking at raising the harvest age objective up one notch. Hopefully they can find a compromise that will work for the majority of hunters and still keep it within the law mandated population level.
 
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