What is "poaching"?

Trammer · Apr 23, 2014

Websters Dictionary defines poaching as cooking an egg in boiling water or to take game or fish illegally.

This definition seems inadequate. Is poaching really anything the Game Wardens threw the legislature want it to be? As sportsmen, are we really suppose to subscribe to idea that if someone shoots his deer from his 4 wheeler that the deer is poached or if his clothing is not the right color while he is hunting, that his deer is poached? The sportsman has committed an offense or a violation to be sure but is his game really "poached" because of it?

Vanilla · Apr 23, 2014

Personally, I don't consider every violation of the law "poaching." People make honest mistakes while out hunting and to me, poaching requires a willful violation and disregard for the law.

I heard a story here locally (a friend of a friend deal...) where a guy was elk hunting on a general bull tag. He found an elk and took the shot. The shot was true and he saw an animal drop, but it wasn't the bull. Unknown to him a cow was standing exactly in front of the bull and he didn't realize it. He immediately rode his horse down, called the DWR, and took the officer back up to where he was on his own horses to report the incident. He got a ticket and I assume paid his fine, etc. This was not poaching, in my opinion. It was probably a foolish shot to take, definitely a mistake, and certainly a violation of the law. But not poaching in my book.

RELH · Apr 23, 2014

Poaching could be defined as "the illegal taking of a game animal". One example would be out of season or the use of a spotlight at night.

RELH

Zim · Apr 23, 2014

Ya it's like that thing SFW does 500 times a year.

lostinOregon · Apr 23, 2014

Trammer,

What is the purpose of the question. I think everyone would agree there are different types of violations that occur during hunting, some accidental, some not. I believe your question can be answered by intent of the hunter.

If you decide that you are going to only follow the rules you agree with, your a poacher. You can't intentionally violate the laws you don't agree with. Poacher has different meanings to everyone. Would you like it better if you are called a violator instead of poacher?

Rich

mntman · Apr 23, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-14 AT 05:46AM (MST)[p]I would guess that any time there is a violation while during the process of taking an animal the states consider it poaching.

I have always considered "poaching" to be out of season, after dark, no tag or along those lines. The rest were violations.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?

Zeke · Apr 24, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-14 AT 10:43AM (MST)[p]I have a feel for what Trammer is talking about.

Here's my take on things:
I'm not a poacher if I kill deer just before legal shooting light.
I'm not a poacher if I'm not off the roadway far enough when I shoot a deer.
I'm not a poacher because I don't always wear enough orange clothing.
I'm not a poacher because the best shooting rest was the hood of my truck.
I'm not a poacher because my mortally-wounded buck ran into the farmers field and I went in to retrieve it.
I'm not a poacher if I leave a twist-tie at a bait site.
I'm not a poacher etc etc.
(no, I'm not talking about me or anyone I know. This is just an example)

While these are all certainly against the rules of law, and should be avoided by the thoughtful hunter, they are not "poaching" to me. The perpetrator should be ticketed, fined and punishment levied and the infractor should vow to do better.

"Poaching" to me is the theift of game. ie: Taking animals with a spotlight, without a tag, out of season, using someone elses tag, upgrading with a bigger animal, wanton waste of meat, hunting with Berger bullets (I threw that in for more controversy) etc etc.

I have my definition but the States G&F departments probably include ALL of the above, and then some, as "poaching" in their definition.

So, the question is; do we have 100X more "poaching" than the cases known by the State? I think not but I don't know for sure. I'm sure they don't catch every guy who shoots a deer off the hood of his truck (poaching to them), nor do they catch every guy who shoots a deer with a spotlight (poaching to me)!

There really isn't a grey area of the law to me but not everything meets MY definition of "poaching".

Zeke

elkassassin · Apr 24, 2014

Hey Zeke?

I know it's kinda Personal!

But?

You ever shoot a Buck off your Wheeler?

[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

deerslayer88 · Apr 24, 2014

I can photo shop a photo of him shooting that huge buck he posts about, off his wheeler if you would like. Dont mind the fact that the wheeler is a 2014 model and his dress is 1980's era that is just Zeke's refusal to upgrade his wardrobe lol.

elkassassin · Apr 24, 2014

I can't even get Zekester to Reply!

[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

Zeke · Apr 25, 2014

LOL!
You guys are killing me!

Of course I shoot off the 'wheeler! I don't even slow down to shoot unless I know I've hit a couple. I can cover more ground and get off way more shots that way. How do you think I get all the shooting done that I claim I'm doing? I don't wear orange either. I don't want the deer seeing me while I'm blazing new trails on the South Slope! TIC

Heck no, I don't shoot off the quad! My wife would kill me (and it's not the right thing to do) since we usually only use them to access deer areas and my wife is always with me on the deer hunt. It's the one hunt every year that she's a big part of and I try to make everything about her on that hunt.

Zeke

bowhunt · Apr 25, 2014

There are different levels of Game Violations, all of which should not be considered poaching.
However, If you did something illegal, and it allowed you to kill an animal, I would say it is poaching.

-Did you trespass over private land to get to the animal that you could have not gotten other ways? Poaching
-Did you knowingly cross Federal land where it is illegal to carry a gun? Poaching
-Did you guide on Wilderness Land in the State of Utah, knowing it is illegal? Poaching
-Did you shoot off of the road, knowing that you could not get it done any other way? Poaching

Forgetting Orange...etc Not Poaching in my mind.

NoShot · Apr 26, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-14 AT 12:40PM (MST)[p]>
>-Did you shoot off of the
>road, knowing that you could
>not get it done any
>other way? Poaching
>
>Forgetting Orange...etc Not Poaching in my
>mind.

Lets see, Forgetting the season opens tomorrow..etc, forgetting the Henries boundary was that road..etc, Forgetting my tag is valid for another unit..etc, Forgetting it's a primitive weapon only hunt.. etc.

Ya, thats the ticket, I forgot! I'm not a poacher, I just forgot..

I was with you right up until the end! Law says I can't forget a tag, Law says I can't forget orange!

bowhunt · Apr 26, 2014

I agree noshot.
Forgot is not an excuse.

ZIGGER · Apr 28, 2014

Through not threw...........

elkun · Apr 30, 2014

are we talking big game or big game tags??

Trammer · May 2, 2014

I think poaching is universal from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The North American Model for Wildlife Conservation specifically discourages state hodgepodging of conservation Law. So when Game Wardens pass silly or hodgepodge laws through (thank you Zigger) their Legislature they are actually acting against wildlife...What is wrong and harmful to wildlife in one state should be viewed as harmful and wrong in all states. Consistency in Wildlife Laws from state to state should serve as a guild post to meaningful wildlife Conservation Law and what is or is not poaching.

Bowhunt, I dont get the first three of the four examples you gave. Trespassing though private property in order to Legally hunt on the other side, seems like Trespassing to me. I am not sure that private property owners should have the right to govern public resources next to them as though they owned them. Private property owners should only be concerned with what happens on their land.

Your second example of person who bears an arm while crossing Federal land as being a poacher seems even more problematic. It would seem to me that he may illegally be in possession of a firearm.I cant make any sense out of, how an offense that does not involve the taking of wildlife could be poaching...as for your third example of guiding on Wilderness Land in Utah. To me seems like a poach only if the land is closed to hunting.If the land is open to hunting it would seem like the guide would be guiding without a use permit.

Your third example bespeaks the miserable state of affairs current American Sportsmen and Guides face because; why would any public owned land that is open for hunting not automatically have outfitter and guide land use permits readily available? When a sportsman obtains the right to hunt, the right for him to hire anyone he wants to guide him should be included.That is Freedom.

Zeke, I disagree with you on two points, one is that if a person hunts on some one else s tag. I call that party hunting not poaching simply because the state and the public are not out an animal. The wrong person shot the animal but conservation did not suffer as a result of the crime.Additionally,as uncomfortable as it may sound wanton waste of meat is not poaching because the animal was taken legally. I am not sure that it should even be illegal due to the ownership issue. When the state transfers ownership of an animal from the public to private ownership as it does so via lawfull hunting and tagging. The state also transfers or should transfer their rights to make Laws concerning it.

I get that the NAMWC calls for states to control the use of wildlife.Problem being the carcass of a game animal is no longer wildlife, it is wilddead. It is now meat and wall decoration. Privately owned meat and/or trophy. Furthermore meat salvage laws do not meet the requirement of Science: that wildlife Conservation Laws be rooted in good science. There is no scientific evidence that meat salvage laws benefit the animals being conserved in any way. I think New Zealand has got this issue right. When I hunted in New Zealand there were no laws governing meat salvage in fact you could lawfully shoot animals and just let they lay if you wanted.No decent sportman that I know of ever did so. At the time I think New Zealand viewed its their jurisdiction over wildlife as being over when it is harvested.Seems New Zealand decided to focus their efforts on results or on things that mattered.

Birdman · May 2, 2014

I do not think that the NAM means a whole lot. It is interpreted by every state a little different. That is why as you put it hodgepodge setup. Every state has there own rules thus you must be understandably up when hunting other states. As for private property, people that own that property have the right to keep people off of it. I do not think that they control the property on the other side of theirs but they have the right to say, don't cross.
As for crossing federal land with a firearm to get to game, if that is the only way to get to that game, I guess that would be poaching.
If we like it or not, most all states have rules for guides. There are reasons for that, problem is some guides have pushed the rules and regulations so much that they have lost there permits to guide. And then they continue to keep pushing the issue.
There is a lot of things that you can call it, party hunting is not legal in most state if any. There is reasons again for that. There are people out there that put in there, grandmother/father, parents, brothers and sisters, even aunts and uncles for permits just so if they draw that person can go hunt them. I guess you call that party hunting, I call it poaching. If someone takes there elderly mother out on a sheep hunt cause they drew the tag, then someone else shoots the ram for her is poaching as far as I and others are concerned.
Again, the law of wasting game is a good one. I do not think going out to shoot something then leaving it is right. You are there for the meat and in some cases the trophy. Wasting meat is just plain terrible. If you do not want the meat there are places to donate it but just want on waste is wrong.
There are some people out there that bend the law as much as they can and push the issues to the limit that they are watched a lot. I have been in several taxidermist shops as well as been ask by Game Wardens when they are looking for people who bend the law. The funny thing is there is some names that pop up more often than you would believe.