Wiggy's Sleeping Bag?

2lumpy

2lumpy

Long Time Member
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Has anyone here-abouts used a Wiggy's sleeping bag in a minus Zero environment? Apparently they have offices/facilities in Grand Junction Colorado, Bend Oregon, and Anchorage. Alaska. My sleeping bag solution quest has lead me to investigate the Wiggy's product for a -20 solution.

I spoke with Jerry Wigutow (I think he may have been the owner) today, he can put me in a Lamilite insulation bag that is wide enough and long enough for my grossly oversized butt and belly. The Alaskan Hunting Forums indicate that a fair number of our northern brethren have had been quite satisfied with there Wiggly products.

From the information I've gotten so far, the Wiggy bag and bivy, seems to be the most likely solution to my particular, low temperature sleeping solution, but I'd like some more input from anyone here on MM before before I end my search and make a purchase.

I've still got a few months to look, before my budget and need come together, so if there's a better alternative, I'm still looking.

Thanks of your continued suggestions in this little project of mine.

DC
 
I was going to suggest you check out Wiggys. They used to make custom size bags but I don't know if they still do. I have the Hunter Ultima Thule with hood rectangular bag. I really like mine. I have the wide long bag. I'm 6'4" and 240, the bag is just a little snug but not too bad. I can still turn over in it. Even tho it has a nylon lining it warms up fast I don't know what the lowest temp that I've used it in was but I've woke up with thick ice frozen to the bag around my face and I was sweating in the bag. These are heavy bags and a little hard to stuff but if your not packing them their great.
Wes
 
Thanks Wes. That's the kind of feed back I'd like. Real stuff, not marketing hype.

Appreciate it.

DC
 
I've had a Wiggy for years. Plenty of room, accurately rated, well constructed. For the bag out of the back of the truck to the tent - works great. On the cons - heavy as compared to other similar rated bags, tough to stuff - I can't fit into the stuff sack they send with the bag and I would not use this bag if you're packing in.
 
Thank PointHunter. My packing days are a thing of the past. Pick-up or ATV is how I get my gear where I'm going now days. Fact is, I only sleep on the ground if I'm completely out of my mind. I now sleep on a 20 pound "big boy" aluminum cot with a big form pad so I can get in and out of bed to pee a couple of times a night. My only concern now days is warmth and staying dry, without a tent, in early spring and last fall weather. I hate taking the time to put up a tent so I need a bag with a good condensation dispersing bivy that will let me flop down my cot, roll out my pad, fluff up my bag and crawl in, where ever I might be, when ever and where ever the sun goes down, then toss it all back in come morning and be on my way again. At my age and size, crawling in an out of a single man pop up tent, two or three times a night is far too much hassle. Make sense?

At any rate, I appreciate your sharing your Wiggy bag experience. I know Wiggy bags have had some negative reports but what product hasn't, regardless of its quality or lack there of. MM's hunters are by for the best source of product reviews I've been able to find. You folks tell it like it is, no muss, not fuss, just straight up personal experience. Priceless.

DC
 
If you're any where near Salt Lake and want to see one first hand let me know
Wes
 
Thanks Wes, I may take you up on your offer. PM me a phone number and I'll give you a call when I get up your way.

DC
 
That was Wiggy that you spoke to. He is quite the salesman...one of those gabby types that you can talk to for awhile, and enjoy it.

They make their stuff in GJ and they claim to be the only US made sleeping bag.

I've used their stuff and enjoy it.
John 14:6
 
I had Wayne Soper make me a canvas bed roll for my bag. It added 20degrees to the bag and it's water/bomb proof.
2258image.jpg


Or try this one
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Looking interesting, I'll run by and visit with him on my next trip north. Thanks for the suggestion HorseCreek.

Might save me purchasing a new bag. An extra 20 degrees makes quite a difference.

DC
 
If you're not concerned with weight, it's the only way to go. I've slept in mine under the stars and woke up with the canvas frosted over and frozen but I'm snug as a bug.


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Nope, not the least concerned about weigh. Comfort, warmth and condensation are my only concerns. 50 pounds, no problem!

However, it is puzzling (and perplexing) to me that no one is selling a xxxlarge (44" wide) rectangular 800/900 fill goose down bag. I guess the market for really large rectangular down bags is too small to make it profitable. I'm pretty sure that a synthetic solution is where I'm going to end up. I don't mind, but it would be nice to be able to compress a synthetic down bag a little more than most will compress. It sounds like, if I end up with a Wiggly Ultimate Thule, it will go in a stuff bag but I'm thinking a guy would be smarter to pick up a 25% larger stuff bag for it, so the stuffing process isn't as daunting as some have reported.

HorseCreek, who's bag are you using in your bivy, what is the temperature rating on your bag, without the canvas cover?

Thanks again.

DC
 
I was usng the elk hunter bag from Sportsmans. You should look at it. I'm 6'2" and over 200lbs. It's got way too much dead space for my body size. I think it's rated to -15 or -20



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Wayne Sopper is a no bullshit kinda guy when it comes to his products. Was looking for saddle panniers a few years back in Cal Ranch. The guy helping me knew I did not want orange garbage they had and called Wayne right then and sent me to his place in Cedar Fort. Tell you what, if you visit him look closely to the pictures he has on the walls. One of them shows a bunch of SF Seal type guys with Waynes pack products on horses, in Afgahnistan. Hunting Osama. If you find a book called Horse soldiers, it is Waynes stuff they used.
Anyway Waynes saddle panniers have held up to a few pack trips into the Uintahs and come home kinda bloody every time. They are high quality stuff and you would be wise to consider his wears.
 
I have a big sleeping bag that I bought from Cabela's about 15 years ago. I can't remember the name. Synthetic with a canvas shell. It has a removable liner. Very heavy and bulky. I've never been cold, ever! I never store it in a stuff sack, as they will eventually lose their loft if you do.

You can also get two bags and zip them together to make one huge bag. You might consider that route.

As far as getting up to pee at night, I never do that anymore either while camping. A pee bottle is the only way to go:)

Eel
 
I have an Elk Hunter -35 bag from Sportsmans Warehouse that has served me well on several below zero hunts. It is pretty good sized, I'm a big boy and do fine in it.

I have a buddy that swears by the Cabelas Alaskan guide -40 down bag in the rectangle style, but I think it's only 36" wide. Really pricey too.

Good luck!


Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.
 
I've been seriously looking at that Magnum 44" bag from Cabelas Eel. I was thinking that would be the one and the price is right too but I hate those soft felt liners they use in that bag. Then after I checked on the Wiggy bags, because they were made with a slick nylon lining, I found out that they can be put in a stuff bag, all be it a large one. Putting a stuff bag into my Polaris RZR would be "just slightly" more convenient that a large rolled up bag, that was the attraction to the Wiggy product over the Cabela's bag. By comparison, the price for the Wiggy a little stout on my budget. I just need to decide if I want the convenience of the Wiggy that much. Right now I'm thinking I do. I'm still getting a fair about of feed back from other guys here on MM so I figured I'll keep taking input until I'm satisfied I've exhausted the subject.

Has a YouTube video been done on that pee bottle business?

I can see me soaking a perfectly dry bed trying to shake off at 3:00 a.m. I've been trying to get a mental picture of how I do that. Laying on my back most likely isn't a good plan. Maybe getting up on my hands and knees could work but I'm a pretty big guy, not sure any bag has enough room for me to get on all fours without tipping over, halfway through. Side peeing? Hmmmmmm. If I was longer, maybe. I'm not sure us short guys can make a pee bottle work. I'm may set up a lab test out in the back yard and give it a try though. If I hose down a bag I can get it washed and dried before the wife founds out. If I can prefect it, it would solve a pretty significant issue for me and my nights on the mountain.

At any rate, thanks for the suggestions, Eel, I figure you've been in the hills, valleys and salt water long enough to have gathered a few worth while tricks. Appreciate you chiming in.

DC
 
LAST EDITED ON May-05-14 AT 03:10AM (MST)[p]Lumpy
Here's a video of a guy sleeping in a wet Wiggys bag. Like I said even tho the lining is nylon it warms up almost immediately.
I used the Elk Hunter from Sportsmans on one pack in trip in Nevada. I'm 6' 4" and it was a little short for me. It got pretty cold on that trip. We got about 2 1/2' of snow the first night. I stayed warm with that bag. Couple things I didn't like were the length, and it was a ##### to roll up once it was out of the bag. I bought 3 for that trip, one for me and one for the two guys that were going in with me. New they were rolled up nice and tight but once you let the cat outta the bag they were difficult to roll back up. Never could get them packed back to the size of when they were new. They were so big I had to tie them on top of my panniers.


Wes
 
DC, I have really been watching this subject religiously and it is fascinating the thing people come up with to solve your problem. We have a RZR involved with limited space, a cot, a large sleeping bag and now a pee bottle. Have you ever researched pee bottles on the internet. I just did - - holy cow. Maybe I'll take up primitive camping again if you MM members can find him a good sleeping bag and a fail proof way to pee at night without getting out of that sleeping bag.
 
Sorry for the highjack from sleeping bags to pee bottles.

2lumpy, the pee bottle thing takes a little concentration and practice to get it down pat, as it's not natural. lol. I sit up in bed and make it work. I first tried it when I was bed ridden with a bad back. It was either a pee bottle or wet the bed.

In camp, the colder it gets outside the easier it becomes:)

Since I took up ocean kayak fishing, I adapted into this method at times, especially if I forget my bottle. Not sure I would try it from my sleeping bag right in camp however.:)

 
Real issues, for real people, in real situations. Things the marketing departments don't cover but the MM boys cut to the chase.

Wes, that video of that guy sleeping in that soaking Wiggy bag was nearly enough to make me give up camping! I've sleep in the rain, there an actual stream of water ended up running through the middle of my bed (from my head to my feet), up on Pine Valley Mountain, some 45 years ago. Longest night I've ever spent in the a bed, of any kind. But...........I crawled in the bag when it was dry and it filled with water over a couple of hours, I didn't intentional crawl in when it was already full of water. You sure that video wasn't a Wiggy "hired" actor? If not, that guy needs a talk with a shrink! ;-).

If the Wiggy's video was the real deal, I'm hooked.

Tell, you what boys, I'll buy a Wiggy bag, "if", anybody out there is willing to let me set it up in my back yard next November, we'll soak it with water and you can crawl in and we'll zip it up. We'll do it at noon, under a bright sun, at 40 degrees, we'll put a temperature gauge in there with you and put a light on it so we can video the temperature change as that baby warms up. It will make another a great video for Wiggy's bags Any takers?

I'm may buy a Wiggy anyway. Still can't find anything I think will work better, for my individual cold weather needs, but I'm still taking input.

Wes, I'll be coming to see you, I've got to see one of these Wiggy bags. I appreciate the pictures you posted of the Elk Hunter bags, imagine how much larger the Cabelas 44" Magnum bag would be on one of those ponies. I think the Cabelas/Sportsmens -20 bags would keep me warm enough and I could most likely wrestle one inside my RZR but It would resemble the Pillsbury Dough Boy going through the trees. (More so than I already do!) By the way, you boys look to be having a great time in those photo's, hunting in 2 feet of snow is just the best, yes? Been there, done that, thank Heaven's killing critters isn't "that" important to me anymore. But............. it was great sport, a few decades ago!

stinky, bullsnot,
Thanks for sharing your experiences with Wiggy's and the Soper products. This search is starting to narrow down some, thanks to you folks and the real goods behind these products.

Dax,
I appreciate the comments on the Elk Hunter bag. Seems like a lot of larger folks are using that bag, if it was wider and would stuff smaller, I'd have to look closer at it. If I wasn't such are lard ass I could camp for less!

Cannonball, it's great, isn't it. I may need to publish a "how to stay warm, if your an old, fat, short stemmed bladder guy" book. I'll just send this thread to a publisher, golden rainbow kayaker and all. Think of all the oldies like you and I that will be able to head back out and spend a peaceful night on the mountain, after we get this figured out. LIfe is not over, when you got MM friends ;-)

Eel,
You're the man. You didn't steal the thread, you enhanced it! Night peeing is a real issue for us old has beens. These youngsters have no idea what's coming but it's waiting around the corner for every one of'em. Sooner than later, the prostrate turns from their best friend to a sinister enemy! They may as well learn how to deal with it now so they're prepared for tomorrow. Preparedness turns misery into a tip toe through the tulips.

I'll have to follow CB's lead and do a little pee bottle research and then I guess it's like learning to cast a fly, you just cleaning up the tangles until you prefect the technique. Maybe I'll set up my cot in the back yard and practice pee bottle methodologies until I can prove up a reliable system. That's where I learned to cast a fly, should work again. I could do a YouTube video of the learning process, to compliment the "Golden Rainbow" production.

Actually, the pee bottle solution is a huge issue for old men and cool weather camping. A reliable solution is absolutely worth addressing.

Great stuff gentlemen.......we're getting there!

DC
 
I have a wiggy's 0 degree bag, can't remember the name. I bought it for Alaska hunting and timberline backcountry hunting here in Colorado. I too am 6'4, 240. I've easily slept in it over a hundred times the last eight years and it still holds its loft with no cold spots yet. I got the extra long, extra wide version and am very comfortable in it. I've been ridiculously wet in it and had long, sleepless nights, but it dried out quickly the next day. I threw away the stuff sack and got a larger one from REI...works great. I'm sure there are better/lighter versions but for under $200 I've been very happy.
 
I've got a Wiggy's 5 degree bag. Jerry had me buy the extra long so "I could stuff my clothes down in the footbag to keep them warm". ( I live in the Grand Junction area and visited his store). At our elk camp I got cold and had areas of the bag that did not have much loft, this is where the cold spots were. I took the bag back to the Mr Wiggy and showed him how using your fingers as calipers you could measure loft, or lack of loft in my bags case. He was not polite about it and called one of his sewers out of the back and they opened up the bag. I could clearly see that there was less lamilite material in the areas I got cold in but ole Jerry wouldn't admit that could be a problem. I still have the bag for car camping but because of my face to face bullcrap experience would not own another one. I have met lots of other people who like his bags, maybe I just got a bad one. I certainly had a bad experience.
 
zeker's, purchasing a larger stuff sack for the Wiggy's bag makes sense to me. Seems like a fairly simple problem to solve. I can understand retailer wanting a new bag to fit tight and look good in a stuff sack but I've cussed stuff sack forever. If your were putting it in a back pack, it makes perfect sense to stuff it as small as possible, but as long as a sack gives the bag adequate protection I can't see any reason to bust a wrist getting one in a stuff sack if your just going to toss it in a vehicle.

beanman, I hope to heck I never actually have to sleep in -20 weather again but the very issue you shared is why I am wanting to find the right bag. I'm calculating if I buy a -20 rated bag it should be warm at zero. I hope a 20 degree error factor will give me that much. Does that make sense? I've bought enough bags, boots, hats, gloves, guns, underwear, to know that I need a healthy buffer between manufacture's specifications and a product's actual field performance. I'm not looking to get in a pissing contest with a product engineer, I just like to error on the side of caution. Fact is, I think I sleep colder than the average guy so I need to factor that into this decision as well. I appreciate your candor, that's the purpose of this post. I'll remember your comments and your experience.

DC
 
I don't have a stuff sack for my big bag. It's too big and heavy for back packing any way. I just roll it up and tie a 1/4" rope around it on both ends. I'll put it in a big garbage bag to keep dust and water from getting to it in transport.

Maybe Wes is onto something. If you can crawl into your bag when it's soaking wet, and when you wake up in the morning it's totally dry inside, why worry about a pee bottle? Just lay there and go! (just trying to be funny).

When we hunted Idaho a lot back in the day, we used to put a canvas tarp over our bags if it was really cold. That kept a lot of warmth in.

Eel
 
I'm think the Wain Soper product that HorseCreek was referring to is a canvas cover similar to what you used to use in Idaho Eel.

When I was a kid, living in Alberta, we just used what ever Dad had laying around, summer or winter. One trip, whitetail hunting on the Red Deer River out near the Saskatchewan border in later November we broke a bail of barley straw on the ground, threw an old oily tarp on top, put up a 1940's tent without a floor in it, laid a couple of home-made Levi blankets down and crawled in. The radio said it dropped to -28. There was 4 inches of hoar frost on the tent roof and walls when we woke up. The only guy that was miserable was the one that got too drunk to figure out how to take his boots off. He said his feet were cold!!!! But times have changed and I don't want anymore of that BS, so here we are...............technology is a wonderful thing!

Have a great day Eel, it's cloudless blue skys and 75 degrees in South Central Utah today. No need for a -20 tonight.

DC
 
2lumpy, those good old oiled up canvas tarps. They smelled so good! I can still remember that smell. It meant you were hunting!:)

Eel
 
I have the Wiggy's Ultimate Thule Boat Foot Bag. I got it for Christmas and spent Christmas night in at -5. I stayed warm and slept well throughout the night. I was lying on a bale of hay, so I had a good insulator between me and the ground. I am excited to try it out more, but I was impressed with the bag that night. I had no other blanket, bag, etc. to keep me warm. I purchased the bag because I got tired of freezing my butt off this past fall. I do not find it to be overly difficult to stuff in the stuff sack. If you make a trip to the factory you can get a much better deal. Good luck, I recommend the bag.
 
mtncowboy, thanks for the information. Yup, the proof's in the pudding, for sure. I'm still leaning toward the Ultimate Thule, but I've still got the rest of the summer to get it a decision made, so I'm going to keep asking for folks recommendations and keep gathering information. Who knows, one of these days somebody might show up here with a totally different solution.

Here's a new question: Has anyone got a 40" plus wide retangular down bag?

Second question: Has anyone put a rectangular +20 "down" bag inside a rectangular 0 degree bag? Would anybody know what kind of temperature rating such a setup would have.

Where's why I'm asking: A number of really good sleeping bag manufactures make big wide bags but they all seem to have a flannel lining. I need a nylon/silk/poly type lining in my bag so I can roll around. I was thinking, if I could find a summer/fall light weight down bag I could put inside the flannel bag and solve the rolling around problem and still get the -20 degree, if the double bag system would get the job done.

A two bag system might actually cost more but I'd have a good summer bag and a great winter system so it might be worth the extra. I've got half a dozen summer bags already but not a really nice down bag so it's wouldn't really be a redundant purchase.

Thanks again.

DC
 
Lumpy
I used to use two bags long before the two bag system became popular . I had a medium light weight rectangular canvas bag and a Slumberjack Everest Elite extra large mummy bag combination. It worked great for all seasons. Never was cold even in below 0 temps.
Here's a link I found for a 42" wide bag. It has a cotton liner but maybe you can find a nylon bag to slip inside it.
http://www.slumberjack.com/p-602-country-squire-0.aspx?category=sleeping-bags
Two bags are going to be a bigger load to carry then one bag. Did you talk to Wiggy's about a custom sized bag?
Wes
 
LAST EDITED ON May-08-14 AT 09:37AM (MST)[p]Morning Wes, thanks again for the suggestions and the double bag experiences.

That Slumberjack bag is the type of cotton liner bag I'm thinking about but finding a summer weight "down" rectangular bag that about 39" to 40" wide to go in it is what I'm having trouble locating.

I did talk with Wiggy's, their answer to a custom bag for my size was the Ultimate Thule, a Wiggy's ground pad and Wiggy's bivy. Might be where I end up but still trying to explore other possibilities.

I'm not in a big twist over a cold weather sleeping solution, as in I need something in the next week or two but what I have presently isn't doing the job for me anymore and I think this internet media forum is a fantastic way to gather first hand information from a broad group of people that have tired a lot of different products and figured out a lot different of ways to get the job done. Besides myself, I'm relatively confident there are hundreds of other older fat guys like me that are dealing with this issue and this seems to be a good way to pass along some information to those guys as well, if they're interested.

Wes, I really appreciate your interest and input, as well as everyone else that has offered suggestions and shared their frustrations and experiences. I think this is a better way to get accurate information about different products than the "review" publications that magazines and such publish. Not that those "reviews" and "product comparison" are not helpful because they are a great starting point but you guys, that are in the field, living the life, using the stuff in real world situations, is the very best information we can have.

Again, thanks everybody, for your input. Keep it coming, hopefully a lot of other guys, beside me, reading the thread and will benefit from your experiences and knowledge as well.

DC
 
Lumpy
Here's a 40" rectangular with hood
http://www.rei.com/product/811097/big-agnes-hog-park-sleeping-bag-#specsTab
I used to use down bags. The problem I found was they lose insulation when they get wet. My feet sweat. The last time I used a down bag was in Nevada on a 7 day back pack hunt. After about the third day the foot section of my bag was wet from sweat and I couldn't get it to dry out completely so my feet froze for the rest of the hunt. After that I went to all synthetic fill bags and haven't had that problem since.
Wes
 
This is my old two bag setup. Both bags lost a lot of their loft over the years so that's why I started using them together. I've weathered some pretty bad storms and cold temps and was never cold with this setup.

Wes
 
Wes, I've never owned a down bag so the things your telling me are very worth while knowing. I don't have the foot issue, that I know of, but I've learned that down and wet don't go together at all. I just never considered condensation inside my bad, I guess that would be because I've never owned a down bag.

Down, being the warmest of the rated insulations, seemed like the logical thing to have for a summer bag, to be used in consort with a second bag during the winter but probably not. That being the case, maybe a two bag solution isn't the most practical thing to do.

I like the looks of the Big Agnes bags, I found one that's rated -20 with a poly liner, the Elk Park. It's not as wide as the Wiggy's Ultimate Thule (42") but it may be wide enough. A lot of guys seem to like the Big Agnes bags.

I've never used a bag that has no insulation on the bottom side, requiring a ground pad, that seems to be the current design. Seems unusual but i guess if laying on it compresses every thing to the point you get no value from the bottom of the bag, there's no reason to put any insulation there. I'll need to get used to the idea I suppose.

Good info Wes.

DC
 
I happened on an old Cabelas down bag at a thrift store a few years ago($8!) and it changed my life! I have lots of good synthetic bags I have used over the years and have had great success, but the comfort of a down bag is beyond compare. My bag's loft is so good that it doesn't feel like I have anything over me. I have slept comfortably below zero and haven't had any condensation issues. (FYI, many new bags have a zipper at the foot to ventilate hot feet.)

In my opinion, down cannot be beat, unless you don't have a decent tent to control moisture or you are sleeping in the rain. Sorry I can't speak to the big and tall issue. My gut is getting there, but I still fit in a mummy.


HAZMAT

www.muddyroad.net
 
Hazmat, thank you for sharing. I''ve heard of similar experiences from the folks that use down bags. I wish somebody made a large rectangular down bag with a nylon lining. However, the wetness issues associated with down, that others have discussed, still have me leaning toward the synthetic products. I won't ever be carrying this bag on my back so weight will never be a problem but I do regularly find myself sleeping without a tent. There are times during the year that I rarely sleep in the same place two nights in row (when I'm out without a tent) so setting up a tent, even a small one is too much hassle. I just want to be able to pull over, pop up my cot, toss out my sleeping bag and crawl in. If the wind blows or if it rains/snows I want a bivy over the bag to keep the moisture out, rather than a tent.

Now, having said that, I also own three different tents and the heaters to go in them, as well a 5th wheel trailer with a good furnace, so then I'm going hunting/fishing/camping for a few days at a time, I take one or the other of my "warm" solutions. What I want this particular bag for is when I'm out fishing different mountain lakes, scouting big game, or sight seeing and moving every day to a new location, usually on my ATV. Sleeping warm/comfortable in the open is what I'm working on. As I've said before, in my younger years I just "hunkered down" and make the best of what I had and then got by. Now that I'm old and cranky I'd like all the comfort I can afford, while I'm doing the things I still enjoy.

Kind of like hauling around a lawn chair.........we used to think it was great if we had a stump to set on, around a camp fire. We could still do that, but a lawn chair sure is nice to have, when you get to be my age. ;-)

DC
 
Look into Kifaru's long and wide -20 degree bag, center zipper. Un zip roll to left or right and letter rip. Don't even get out of the bag.
 
elkwon,
Interesting bag. A wide mummy bag. Looks to be 37" wide at the hips. That might actually work. I couldn't find any information about their insulation type.

Has anyone else used a -20 Kifaru bag, in extreme cold/wet conditions?

Thanks for the new information elkwon. IS there anything more you could tell me about Kifaru's bags or the company?

Thanks EW.

DC

3463kifaru.jpg
 
elkwon, heartshot,

Thanks again gentlemen. It's giving me new places to look and ideas to ponder.

Question:

Is it possible to purchase raw materials, such as Climashield, Thermolite, Hollofil, Polarguard, Quallofil, MicroLoft, Primaloft and the various kinds of fabric that's used for liner/covers etc. in small amounts, where you could build a bag the way you want it? I watch a YouTube video where a guy opened an existing bag and inserted additional insulation and hand stitched it back together. It was poorly done but it might work, if you have the right materials.

If so, where might I look into such a purchase?

DC
 

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