WOLF in sheep's clothing? or?

[505]

Or Enviro's in camofauge?

OK, I'm going to play Captain Obvious for a minute here.

All this ruckus about New Mexico Wildlife Federation got me looking into their organization. At first look they seem pretty good, right? They can sure rally sportsmen, and pit us against each other, non resident hunters, land owners, game and fish, outfitters, etc. One could go so far as label them professional agitators.

I don't know about any of you guys, but when I support an org, I like to know what their deal is and where their money comes from. I take pride in supporting local business, small or large, and supporting organizations that are close to my heart.

If anyone so quick to jump on the NMWF bandwagon would open their eyes for a quick minute, they would see the light.

National Wildlife Federation is the parent organization of New Mexico Wildlife Federation. The Mommy and Daddy if you will.

The NWF, in their words from : http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazin...imals/Archives/2003/A-Top-Dog-Takes-Over.aspx


"NWF Priority

Restoring Wolves

For more than two decades, NWF has worked to restore wolves, both in the public mind and on lands where the predators once lived. Education efforts include producing feature-length films, a wolf newsletter and materials for schoolchildren. NWF also works with other groups trying to protect and reintroduce wolves, including the U.S. National Park Service, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the Nez Perce Tribe and the White Mountain Apache Tribe."

You can even adopt a gray wolf from their website. How cute.

Is this really the org you want to put your hard earned money behind? Not me, thank you.

 

[Bullbreath]

Do you even think these type of posts would be coming up so adamantly if the confrontation over getting the percentage of residents higher. It is amazing what people will go to, to undermind the effort. I am not a member there myself, but they are playing a role along with the rest of us to change things. Nice target though. I am sure shots from NR,LO and OFs will be taken. I know it will not stop the grass roots level.

 

[505]

 

[JFWRC]

Like Largo so aptly said in a post on the NR Stay Out or Do the Math, can't remember......they were on board in the mid 90's!

 

[Cookie2]

OK. I've been watching all these posts and I am going to ask a question to see if we can REALLY get some clarity on what is truly going on here.
First a little insight into who cookie2 really is. I am a DIE HARD bowhunter. Please don't throw the rifle elk 34 numbers at me because if it wasn't for my parents I couldn't care less about the rifle odds in ANY unit for ANY species. I personally believe that all the magazine articles on deer and elk hunting has been a MAJOR reason for the decline in odds in the last few years. People read these articles not knowing a thing about what they are reading and say " NM unit 34 MUST have the best elk hunting in the state, thats where I wanna hunt!" Add to this the fact that there are "tag brokers" driving the price of LO tags thru the roof and the common man who hunts is left at the mercy of fate. Unless as JFWRC points out, he wants to travel all the way across the state to unknown territory to POSSIBLY lay eyes on his quarry. Most of us have to savve up all year in order to make that one week count and I fit into this category. If I am going to have to save up THAT much money in order to hunt elk then I am going to look into one of the famous units in another state. I have ZERO desire to go galavanting across the state to new areas just for a glorified scouting trip. Played that game twice now, once on a fourth choice draw in 23 and then a second time in 23 because I THOUGHT I could find an elk this time.....WRONG!
Now, given all this newfound revelation into who cookie2 is, my question is this......
Who are YOU JFWRC? How much money do you stand to lose if all of this goes thru? Let's get real here dude. I just cannot get past the fact that you are on here screaming from the mountaintop about the sky falling and I just can't buy it....

 

[JFWRC]

Would love to talk to you Cookie and tell you who I really am. Alot of who and what I do is on the posts. I will shoot you a PM with my number and lets chat one on one.

By the time we chat I will be able to tell you what your odds will be with ALL the NR tags thrown back in vs what they are today. Jim

 

[JFWRC]

Cookie-if you throw them all in you odds on E-2-315 goes up 3.6%. If you throw them all in your odds on E-2-316 goes up 2.5%.

If you let 10% of NR come it goes up 1.9% on 315 and 1.42% on 316.

I guess what I am asking of all of the sportsman in NM is that do you hate outfitters so much that you will throw the industry under the bus for 1.9% and 1.42% better odds. If that is the case, IMHO that is a sad day for all of us in NM.

 

[JACOB2006]

wow 12% works in other states and they don"t even have landowner tags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JACOB2006]

WOW in all most other states 12% non res and no land owner tags.
+1 cookie2

 

[ELKMAN]

It is so funny to watch JFWRC SPIN things!

Look up these numbers etc, and do the math!

The state is going to get into more econmic hard times, if these outfitters do not get these rich clients from RUSSIA etc! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA You know they buy a "gatoraide" at the local gas station on their hunt!

 

[Gator]

Is NMWF really pushing for wolves in New Mexico,as posted on the website. Because for me that would be a huge deal breaker in joining them.I would be spending money to stop it not help them.
Now if I had a choice sell those animals to hunters/outfitters/Landowners or give them to the wolves to eat I think I would take the money, But that just me.
If they get to put more wolves in New mexico there goes those tags everyone is fighting over it will be alot more then 12%.It would be called wolf feed. See ya Monster Bucks and Monster Bulls.
15 years down this road of no return you WILL NOT be able to get rid of NMWF or the wolves. SO I HOPE LIKE HELL THEY AREN'T PART OF THE WOLF THING.
Good Luck NM sportsman because this is a BIG turning point in the Game Management in your future of hunting listen to both sides of what is happening and make the decision for whats best down the road not for the quick fix.

I look at the guys pushing NMWF and I have to wonder do they know what they are pushing,Selling Wolves to me is like Selling Meth it has the same affect.Wolf Dealer or Meth Dealer

Wish they had wild elk in the farmlands of South Dakota and not just in the Black hills.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[NMPaul]

Gator, I have never seen anything about wolves on the NMWF site.

Looking at the NWF site, I see nothing about hunting on it.

Keep in mind that Monster Muleys is here for information and entertainment. You have to determine which is which. I have not gone to the trouble to research the relationship between NWF and NMWF or how one influences the other IF AT ALL.

We need a organization to advocate for NM hunters. I agree with most of what NMWF says.
However, they do put out some info to rile the masses. Many of the Ranch Only elk tags never get hunted.

The last thing we need is to issue all those un hunted tags.

I personally know of a Ranch that gets 12 elk tags for about 1400 acres and 640 of it rarely ever have elk on them.

Those 12 elk tags should not be issued into the pool.

There is room for changes to make things a little more fair. In the past Land Owners and Outfitters have had the strongest lobbies and so they have struck the best deals.

Land swaps that lock out access to public land, allocation of elk tags from SCR, and youth opportunities are areas that are important to me.
That being said, NM does the best job for youth hunts of any of the western states.

 

[Cookie2]

Well said Paul.

 

[jamaro]

THANK YOU GUYS... I am not real sure of the stance of NMWF on wolves but I do know that they are fighting there butts of for us on the A-Plus deal... Lets stay focused on the issue and not let people try and sidetrack those that are helping us..

 

[JFWRC]

The APlus rule will be posted the 29th.

 

[WapitiBob]

Jason, I think you residents are going to get screwed on this Aplus deal.

All you're going to get out of this is maybe some opportunity to hunt some "scrub" public land and if you want to hunt where the animals are, you're going to pay the trespass fees that the NR is currently paying. You damn sure aren't going to hunt the current ranches without paying.

How is that a good deal for you guys?

 

[stinkystomper]

I spent 3 years in college. I got a degree in electrical engineering. started out working on F-22 radar and then moved to designing ram memory for computers. 2 years after i graduated, the tech markets tanked and i was jobless. i couldn't pay someone to hire me because the markets were so saturated with electrical engineers.

what did i do? i invested my last 6 grand into starting my own small company. today im doing just fine and have a stable job.

i'm stinkystompoer and who I am is a person who can adapt to change. quit rooting for a corrupt system that u rely on for job security jfwrc and figure out how to adapt to the changing world. these changes need to happen regardless of odd increase cuz its the right thing to do.

let me ask u a question jfwrc. do u like paying ur taxes and then enjoy standing in line at the grocery store watching someone check out with food stamps?

yep, i didnt think so. this is how we nm hunters see the landowner tag system and it is simply another form of welfare. It's wrong and needs to stop. I'm sick of buying my hunting license that goes to keep wildlife in the field only to see that wildife hnded over to an undeserving landowner.

look at arizona. i think its unit 18? that unit is about 80+ percent private. how many landowner tags are given? ZERO! they have to convince the public to pay high trespass fees in order to hunt on their land if they want to make money. what does that mean? it means they have to manage wildlife better than everyone else in oder to convince hunters to pick their ranch. thats called earning your money, and what I'd like to call a clean honest living.

sorry but most nm landowners are no better than our free loading illegal aliens. the systems gotta change!



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[stinkystomper]

btw.... im not against the aplus system. its actually pretty fair if u look at how few tags landowners are give and the other act that the residents are usually given the same amount of tags on most ranches.

However, the elk system is a diseased rotting stinkig system and needs to be disposed accordingly!


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[JFWRC]

Yup, the word is out and the lines are drawn in the sand stinky. This is going to get way cool before its over. I pay a boat load of taxes stinky and see it wasted on freeloaders every day. I've been adapting for years. I will be fine.

I'm glad you guys have done so well posting here. The factions now how their jobs cut out for one another. I guess we will have to wait and see how well your ideas pan out at state levels. Best of luck to you stinky.

 

[30inchbuck]

NMWF is the Sierra Club on camo. Don't think otherwise. They are the ones paying for the advertisment to push for Cap and Tax.

I would not be suprised at all about the wolve issue.

if you have read the articles in the paper they put out you can see there hidden agenda. And oh by the way it is not for the sportsman but for the treehuggers, spotted owl watchers and the likes.

 

[jamaro]

>NMWF is the Sierra Club on
>camo. Don't think otherwise. They
>are the ones paying for
>the advertisment to push for
>Cap and Tax.
>
>I would not be suprised at
>all about the wolve issue.
>
>
>if you have read the articles
>in the paper they put
>out you can see there
>hidden agenda. And oh by
>the way it is not
>for the sportsman but for
>the treehuggers, spotted owl watchers
>and the likes.


Cap and Trade is a non-issue.. it was removed from the Bill...

NMWF has ruffled the feathers of a lot of people that don't advocate for Residents and I AM ALL FOR IT

 

[stinkystomper]

well i personally never formed an opinion on the nmwf until they proposed their little article in the abq journal. they stated how bassackwards the antelope system was and how the residents need those tags.

well what i did was pull up the entire landowner with authorizations list and what i found was basically this.

if a landowner had 50k acres of private and 50k public they recieved one lo tag and one public tag was given. i als saw several examoles of 70k deeded acres with 10k public get a 50/50 split between lo and public tags. where the tag deficit came from were from the ranches with mostly deeded land and little public. those landowners received more tags tha the public. why is this acceptible? because these arent unit wide antelope authorizations. u have to stay on ur ranch if its a lo tag.

I personally cant find many flaws in the antelope system.

in stark contrast, the landowners with elk authorizations get a tag for 25 acres abd can go hunt the whole unit. WTF is that all about. then u get 4000 acres ranches getting 5 and 6 bull tags? thats wrong. we all know u arent gonna kill 6 bulls on their deeded alone. this system is completely jacked up.

so what is my problem with the nmwf? the leaders are stupid. or are they? they know the antelope system is fair. the numbers are all there. they know that by jacking with aplus their gonna piss off all the landowners and whats that gonna do? u got it! we're gonna have very litlle hunting opportunity. thats the only explanation i can come up with. please correct me if im wrong but thats what the evidence is pointing to.

why ddnt the nmwf just go after eplus instead? that would help hunters not hurt them. instead they put aplus square in their crosshairs?

well ive made up my mind and i WILL NOT support nmwf.

just my two cents.

btw good luck to u to jfwrc and hope u have a good hunting season.



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[30inchbuck]

Cap and Trade is a non-issue.. it was removed from the Bill...


Dont care where it is - the NMWF supported it. Shows where they stand and what the money from donations went towards! They are spilling out half truths about the A plus system to get donations from sportsman. Then spending that money to pay for adds to support Cap and Tax?


The A plus system as stinky states is really not that messed up. Can it be better - yes.

JFWRC has put some great numbers up.

NMWF is not a hunters friend - might as well donate to PETA if you send money there way.

 

[505]

Jason, the issue is not that cap and trade is off the table, the real issue is that NMWF is in favor of taxing industry in this country.

You are in favor of cap and trade? You've posted that same thing on every discussion here.

Obviously you don't work in the Oil and Gas industry, agriculture, mining, drywall, concrete, or any of the other industries that would be punished by that kind of environmental legislation.

Who was NMWF in bed with on that lobby? Oh yes, the rabid environmentalists.

As a state, we need those industries to continue to thrive to keep New Mexicans employed. I'm sure Silver City is the same way, but we need all the jobs we can get around here.

Yes, NMWF has proven that they can ruffle feathers, anyone remember the radio ads about the San Juan river oil spill? The one they made up? Those were downright sleazy.

Ask any of the fishing guides up on the San Juan how well that went over. Because of Simpson's "political license", those guys had a hell of a time fielding phone calls and booking fisherman. Since the story went national, the reputation of the San Juan as a world class fishery was tarnished.

And for what? NMWF's political agenda? To "ruffle some feathers"? That's cold blooded.

Anybody who runs into Bob Gerding around town should ask him about NMWF's behavior at his outdoors show. It basically got down to behave, or GTFO.

I'm not here saying the sky is falling, that's a NMWF, NWF, Sierra Club, Earth First, etc tactic.

All I'm saying is know who you support, and what they support, because once your bed is made, you have to lie in it.

 

[WapitiBob]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-10 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]I like you more all the time StinkBug. Maybe the college education actually worked. :9

NMWF picked the wrong species to champion their cause and drive donations. In the end, the residents of NM are going to get screwed.
They honestly believe if 100% of the LO tags were put in the public draw, 100% of those public hunters would be welcomed on those private ranches free of charge.

 

[Bullbreath]

>LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-10
>AT 11:42?AM (MST)
>
>I like you more all the
>time StinkBug. Maybe the college
>education actually worked. :9
>
>NMWF picked the wrong species to
>champion their cause and drive
>donations. In the end, the
>residents of NM are going
>to get screwed.
>They honestly believe if 100% of
>the LO tags were put
>in the public draw, 100%
>of those public hunters would
>be welcomed on those private
>ranches free of charge.

No they do not. Atleast some of us. A tresspass fee not to exceed 500.00 for a limited # of hunters based on previous LO welfare tags. If a ranch recieved 10 tags then 10 tags would be tallied with the rest of ranches in that particular unit. A flat 500.00 tresspass fee state wide would be required of all who put in for an got picked for that "choice 5 draw". The LO can require up to a 250 damage deposit on top of the 500.00. HERE IS WHERE GREED WILL BE CHALLENGED. They will get mad there not getting thousands from rich texans anymore. We will repeal the jennings law and they will be breaking the law if they do not call for depredation or submit to "choice 5". God bless

 

[NMelkhunter]

I can't say I always agree with Stinky, but he has it dead on with regards to the antelope and elk issue being different situations. The LO elk allocation is as rotten as can be!