Wyoming G&F Needs a much needed overhaul!

W

Wyonative21

Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 12:40PM (MST)[p]As a Wyoming native who is addicted to hunting its sad to talk with a Wyo Game Warden about suggestions or "Wish-full" ideas just to have them totally disagree with such suggestions or ideas. When will the Wyo G&F wake up and look around at neighboring states to see how those states with higher hunting pressures and populations manage their hunts/game! As I talk with my friends and fellow hunters here in Wyo it is really sickening whats going on. Example-Wyoming doesn't truly have any deer or elk areas/units that are managed for trophy quality. For example Hunting Fool & Eastman's may list Elk units 7,30,31,100, or 124 are trophy class, but in reality those units are over-hunted and you actually have a better chance at killing a 350+ bull with a General Wyo Elk Tag. The only thing that's different with most of Wyoming's "trophy/good" draw tags is they are easier hunts where Elk can be found from a truck and way less physically demanding. The same with mule deer....as a Wyo resident I truly have a better chance at a 200+ plus deer with a general type tag, then lets say areas 87, 101, 102, 128 which again are all over hunted.

All of the Draw Tags I have mentioned in my examples above are realistically a "once in a lifetime" type draw tag for both residents and non-residents. I know people who have been applying for area 100 Elk and have never drawn and could die of old age before drawing. My point is, If these are "once in a lifetime type hunts" then why doesn't the Wyo G&F mange them for trophy status? Maybe lower the number of buck/bull tags, but instead possibly issue spike/3point only & antlerless tags to control deer/elk numbers which would start bring the trophy quality back.

Also....the preference point system here is a bust. Yes it helps and "GUARANTEES" some non-residents to draw tags, but how is that fair for us residents? This is our state...we should come first! As a resident certain Sheep and Moose tags are not draw-able unless we got into the point system with in the first few years of it originating. My example....when my current 3 year old boy comes of age to hunt he will be approx. 29 years behind in points! Yes a few Moose and Big Horn areas may be close to that max point of 29 by then. So unless my boy draws a random tag he will be an old man before he could draw a certain Moose or Sheep tag. And this goes for you Non-residents too!!! Think about it the Wyo G&F requires you as a non-res to buy a Sheep point to even apply for a tag which is a $100.00. So for example you are 30 years old and this is your first year trying for a Wyo Sheep tag...so that means you are 20 years behind in points combined with the low amount of tags issued to Non-res, and all the others in front of you...you will NEVER draw a sheep tag with your preference points before you die!!! (Now isn't that fraud?) Let alone the Wyo G&F "stole" your $100 each year knowing you would never draw a Sheep tag with your Preference Points..the only chance a non-residents has at draw a sheep tag with not being maxed out in points is to apply where a random tag is issued!

I could go on and on and on....this is the tip of the Wyoming Game and Fish's corrupt and somewhat fraudulent system they are running.

Let me be clear I am not anti-Wyoming Game & Fish....I think the Wyo G&F just needs to start over and do some serious soul searching!
 
Wyoming is no different that all the rest of the western states. Each has it's own system of tag distribution and all are essentially unfair unless they are a straight random system. It's funny to listen to "armchair biologists" like yourself that think they are the experts in how to manage game populations. There is no state, including Wyoming, that is twisting anyone's arm to buy into their systems. In a nutshell you have to pay to play and if that doesn't suit you then don't play.
 
Ideas----

*Give outfitters...lets say...30-40% of their tags. The remaining 60-70% require the outfitter to seek clients who drew a tag as they currently operate.
*Put a harness on the Outfitting in the Forest. Require Outfitters to stay in certain areas as they once were required to do so. Or apply for special case by case situations.
*No scouting from the air after the first day of the season.
*Do away with the preference point system in 2020 and go to a bonus point system for both non-residents and residents.
*Make hunters pick a weapon choice.
*In some areas have an any buck/bull for youth tag holders, but adult tag holders have antler restrictions.
*In some areas start an archery, 1st, 2nd, and maybe a 3rd season to help eliminate the "opening day pressure."
*Reduce the number of tags allotted to non-residents.
*Let non-residents fish for free when holding a current big game tag.
*Allow hunters to shoot bears and lions and use their unused big game (deer or elk) tag on the bear. Example of this in Idaho.
*Have only application fees due upon applying then once drawn the rest of the tag fee is charged, such as UTAH. Its not fair some people and families cant even afford to apply for all species.
*Immediately allow residents to start collecting bonus points for antelope, deer, and elk.
*If only one tag is available in a unit, that tag is available to be drawn by anyone.
*Give Outfitters 50% of their current registered bear bait locations, but make non residents and residents apply into a drawing to bait bears! The bear baiting is getting out of control...its time to let someone else try baiting bears!
*Allow landowners two options.... Option #1 keep the landowners tag rules as it is. Option #2 give landowners blank tags that can be used, sold, or given away to anyone, but in this case the tag is only valid for owned and deeded land of the landowner. With these landowner options if the landowner picks option #2 then they are no longer allowed money from the Wyo G&F to build fences or to pay for damages. (This would save the Wyo G&F money!) And would also benefit the Landowner and the Wyo G&F financially, because instead of paying for a landowner tag the landowner could sell it for as much money as someone is willing to pay for it. And that money can then be used by the landowner to build their own fences and pay for damages.
 
"""Wyoming is no different that all the rest of the western states. Each has it's own system of tag distribution and all are essentially unfair unless they are a straight random system. It's funny to listen to "armchair biologists" like yourself that think they are the experts in how to manage game populations. There is no state, including Wyoming, that is twisting anyone's arm to buy into their systems. In a nutshell you have to pay to play and if that doesn't suit you then don't play."""

LOL!

DC
 
Wyonative21,

You should try living somewhere else, say Nevada. In a 10 year stretch, I drew a total of 6 tags (antlerless mule tags included). Now that I'm a Wyoming resident again, I can have this many tags every year! I personally think the Wyo G&F does an outstanding job with Wyoming's wildlife.

You brought up area 100 for elk, so here's an example of how Wy G&F manages the resources properly. In 2014 the quota was 103 bulls and 146 cows. Since the herd is struggling, the quota was cut to 75 bull and 75 cow tags.

I'm happy for the wealth of hunting opportunities and access that being a resident provides. Then again, I'm also a glass-is-half-full kind of guy.
 
Wyo21,

I think you need to move to Utah. Their wildlife model will better suit your needs..
 
You seem to not realize how great you have it. You can buy a tag and hunt 200" bucks and 350" bulls every year. You can buy 2 antelope buck tags every year. You have the best public lands herds in the United States which you can hunt rather than just look at.

Your idea of flying is a valid concern, but didn't the WGF already address that issue? Doesn't the WGF already have units with antler restrictions for adults and not for kids? After living in a state with points, residents would be crazy to want more point systems which turn into cash cows and give entitlement attitudes to point holders.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 02:41PM (MST)[p]If funny you say Utah....because I drew an Utah Elk tag last year and had an awesome hunt. Got a really nice bull on 3rd day of the hunt.

No people can still fly as much as they want, just have to wait 24hrs to hunt.

You all are taking it all wrong. I am suggesting ideas to make things possibly better. I know compared to other states we have it awesome here in Wyo, but so didnt Nevada and Utah and Arizona residents way back in the "good ole days." Why is it now hard to get a tag in Utah, Nevada, & Arizona as 75 years ago it wanst?? Well my answer is "people" our population of people is rising and so Game and Fish managers in those states had to eliminate general season type hunting as human population rose. And now the very such thing that made Game and Fish managers in other states reduce hunting opportunities is now happening here in Wyoming! If the Wyo Game & Fish refuse too wake up and the sportsman here in Wyo dont open their eyes we are going to go down a hill that takes unnecessary work to come back up.


And to the antelope tag in which I can buy two....LOL....don't get me started. 50% of all antelope tags go to Non residents! Yes I could buy 2 tags buy in areas that have a majority of private lands and which are undesired tags. If I am un-lucky the area I desire to draw for Antelope I could possibly go a lifetime without drawing, but a nonresident is GUARANTEED the tag soon or later with how the system is set up. How is that fair to us residents??

As to points...yes I think its unfair that nonresidents are at some point guaranteed a tag, but us residents are not. I do not want preference points, but bonus points only. It would make people feel better who have been putting in for area (example 100 elk) to know on year 20 their name is in the draw 20 times.

And to area 100 I am fully aware Wyo G&F fish dropped tags, but only after they upped the tag amounts and over-hunted the unit! Its still an excellent unit, but it could be so much better for the very lucky ones who get drawn. However, as I said trophy quality and bigger bulls are coming out of General units instead if these so called "trophy" units like 100. Example area 124 was starting to become the best unit in the state for trophy sized elk with only 25 tags issued, but a few years back the Wyo G&F upped the tags to 35....what a perfect example where they could have issued 10 spike tags to control bull numbers and to gain bigger trophy size!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 03:00PM (MST)[p]I like that you're proposing ideas instead of just pointing out problems, and some are ideas that should probably be accepted.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you complained how the point system will make it so your son never draws a tag, but then want a point system started for residents. What does that do for the kid born 5 years from now? He'll be even worse off. (Correct me if I read wrong what you're saying.)

As a Utah resident, I can tell you that you should fight against a point system as hard as you can fight, because that is the doom of hunting as you know it for yourself and your kids and their kids.

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 03:44PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 03:37?PM (MST)

No a point system is not the doom and gloom end of hunting for people.

A random draw is only fair on the first year, after that it's one of the most unfair ways to distribute tags.
"By distribute tags" I mean share the available resource with as many different and equally deserving applicants as possible.
Lady luck is not fair, it never has been.

I agree that Wyomings deer resource is declining, but there aren't many good choices when it comes to managing mule deer anywhere in the west.
I'm afraid the good old days of muley hunting are gone forever, we just have to accept that fact.

It's still an awesome state for hunting, i think that has less to do with the kind of job WGF does, and probably more to do with some still pristine habitat, wild
Country, and the lack of human population.

Utah does an awesome job managing elk, hundreds of hunters kill amazing bulls and have once in a lifetime hunts every year, lots of animals are taken through cow harvests and spike hunts and new hunters enter the sport every year because of the opportunity.
Also in Utah, 50% of all tags are given out randomly, first time applicants draw every year.

I do think that Wyoming really dropped the ball when they went to the sheep goat moose point system. Moderation in all things, I guess they forgot that when it comes to point systems. And I think loose regulations as far as weapons go will catch up soon by reducing quality, even in the elk herds, by that I mean crossbow hunting and the lack of special primitive weapon hunts.
 
Wyonative21:

Over the last 20-25 years many of the ideas you are suggesting have come up and when G&F held public meetings to get input, the public at those meetings were overwhelmingly against the ideas.

Did anyone attend any of the meetings a number of years ago when the idea of giving licenses to landowners so they could issue them to whoever they wanted for whatever price they could get? There were many, many angry residents that attended those meetings and basically said, "over my dead body".

Being able to take a trophy elk or deer in a general unit rather than a hard to draw unit seems like a good thing. Can you explain why this is a bad thing? It seems the magazines you read are the ones that label the hard to draw units "trophy" units. Just because a unit is hard to draw does not mean it is managed as a "trophy" unit. There are probably other reasons only a few licenses are issued.

Almost always these types of complaints come from people that want to make it easier for them to obtain a certain license or licenses, and they don't care one bit about other hunters or other hunters desires as long as they get their way.

ClearCreek
 
Grizz..

Yes a agree the preference point system is not good. But a bonus point is different...thats what I am trying to portray. Here in Wyo 75% of all tags for a unit go to max preference point holders and 25% of the tags are leftover for anyone under max points. Which this works for you non-residents on most but not all antelope, deer, and elk tags. What I am saying is there are units which are so desired that even with this point system the max point holders have minimal chances to draw. In most Sheep units the point creep is going to be so high for my son that he will be an old man if and before he ever maxes out into the 75% pool. So what that leaves him, and everyone else under max points, is only the random tags to draw from. In my opinion this Wyoming "Preference Point" system is turning for the worst and something needs to be figured out for certain circumstances.

For example in Wyoming there are a handful of Sheep units that only offer 1 or 2 tags. Those tags are ONLY available to max point holders, which there are A LOT of. However, in Utah a few years back I believe a nonresident drew the one and only nonresident Desert Sheep tag with no, zero, nada...points! His/her first year applying... I dont know who Utah exactly works their points except for 50% of the tags go to max holders and 50% go to everyone else, but in the above example of the Desert Sheep Tag only one tag was available and it was available to everyone in the draw.

Now that Desert Sheep example is fair to me...everyone in the Utah draw had a chance. These are the suggestions I am referring to here in Wyoming. I want it fair for all and not for a select few. I believe if only one tag is available in Wyoming for sheep, or any species, it should be available for ALL in the draw. ****BUT**** this is where my idea of bonus points come into play...if only one tag is available here in Wyoming and you have 18 points your name is in the drawing 18 times vs. the guy with one point, where his name is only in one time.

I am not a biologist or wildlife manager nor think my ideas are the one and only that are acceptable. However, I have been here my whole life...I have had the luck to have 3 deer on the wall over 200'' and several 300-350'' class elk. I am just worried for the future and I truly believe if Wyoming doesn't start thinking of new and FAIR ideas right now its going to be hard to get back up and get moving in the right direction. Again all I want is it to be fair for everyone, non-residents, residents, and outfitters alike, and not for a just a select few.
 
There is no doubt that under a bonus point system the available tags would be distributed to more different hunters, that's not even an argument.

But explaining that to angry hunters, especially those that know how Wyomings current system works. Good luck.
We have discussed this several times on this site before. And I have long given up on any ideas for change. I think we just have to manage with how it is. Could be better in my opinion? Yes. But we are still fortunate
 
Ah the great Wyoming government butter war of 2016.

When are you guys going to learn that fighting over tags and rules will only get better if you actually pull up your big boy pants and fix the broken system y'all keep squabbling over? My guess is never. It's more important to argue over seasons and numbers of tags for yourselves than it is provide a future for our children.
 
We know tristate,
the land and wildlife should all be privately owned, then we can pull our big boy trowsers up and buy hunts in the free market system. No more welfare. I get it, we understand.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 05:13PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 04:52?PM (MST)

Clearcreek,

I am also against giving landowners tags to sell....I will also stand firm and say "over my dead body", but I my opinion the big hang up I have in Wyo is landowner tags are good for the entire unit which I have never understood. For example Why does a landowner in area 100 by Rock Springs get to take his tag over to Wamsutter and shoot an Elk that has never been near his property? I stand firm and truly believe this was one of the big hangups in the public meetings. But how about if a landowner gets a tag as I have suggested, but then is limited to his land only. I am willing to bet if that idea is brought up at public meeting most people could care less and in-fact may support it.


"Almost always these types of complaints come from people that want to make it easier for them to obtain a certain license or licenses, and they don't care one bit about other hunters or other hunters desires as long as they get their way"

And I take offense to what you said above! I do NOT own a ranch, I do NOT own a outfitting business, I am a normal blue collared working middle aged guy. I will not benefit in anyway from my ideas, except for being treated fairly as all people should! I am only here on a firm stance of being FAIR to EVERYONE and it is very clear and evident the way Wyoming G&F is currently doing things is UNFAIR the Wyo G&F own statistics prove that! And as I mentioned above to someone else you sound like a Game and Fish employee, because your response is dang near spot on with what I have already been told in face to face conversations. Hence the title of this blog "Much Needed Overhaul"
 
>Ah the great Wyoming government butter
>war of 2016.
>
>When are you guys going
>to learn that fighting over
>tags and rules will only
>get better if you actually
>pull up your big boy
>pants and fix the broken
>system y'all keep squabbling over?
> My guess is never.
> It's more important to
>argue over seasons and numbers
>of tags for yourselves than
>it is provide a future
>for our children.

Yea, and meanwhile back in your home state of Texas if a guy doesn't have several thousand dollars for a deer lease or marry into a ranching family he doesn't have much of a chance to go hunting!
 
" Grizz..

Yes a agree the preference point system is not good. But a bonus point is different...thats what I am trying to portray. Here in Wyo 75% of all tags for a unit go to max preference point holders and 25% of the tags are leftover for anyone under max points..."

Not the way it works.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16
>AT 05:13?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16
>AT 04:52?PM (MST)
>
>Clearcreek,
>
>
>"Almost always these types of complaints
>come from people that want
>to make it easier for
>them to obtain a certain
>license or licenses, and they
>don't care one bit about
>other hunters or other hunters
>desires as long as they
>get their way"
>

>I am only here on
>a firm stance of being
>FAIR to EVERYONE and it
>is very clear and evident
>the way Wyoming G&F is
>currently doing things is UNFAIR
>the Wyo G&F own statistics
>prove that!

Wyonative21:

Can you explain your statement how you think the way things are done now is unfair and how the statistics prove that. I would like to see where you are coming from with that idea.

ClearCreek
 
"And to the antelope tag in which I can buy two....LOL....don't get me started. 50% of all antelope tags go to Non residents! Yes I could buy 2 tags buy in areas that have a majority of private lands and which are undesired tags. If I am un-lucky the area I desire to draw for Antelope I could possibly go a lifetime without drawing, but a nonresident is GUARANTEED the tag soon or later with how the system is set up. How is that fair to us residents??"

We get 50% of the tags because RESIDENTS don't want them.

Can't draw that high end tag?? cry me a river

I'll chime in before Buzz does, if you're not hunting it's your own damn fault.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 06:54PM (MST)[p]As a resident of Wyo,if you don't like the way G/F runs things....MOVE THE ##### OUT......period.

It is what it is...enjoy.

Sorry for the bad attitude.

And yes i'm a res.


"Word of the day..legs..spread the word"
 
I like KP's way of thinking.

Luck of the draw is a lot better than boohooing over waiting 15 years to draw and then going into the hunt with unrealistic expectations. Points are great if you have them and really suck if you don't. The the guys with lots of points boob over any little change because their expectations are based solely off of the their best fantasy of what their points should give them.

Wyoming has the best wildlife and management of any state I have hunted. They are generous with their permits, seasons, information, and access. No other state even comes close to what Wyoming offers their residents in terms of opportunity and the chance at trophy quality. Tweak a few things, but don't overhaul the good you already have.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-16 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]I have to agree that we have it pretty good here in Wyoming. Would it be nice if my son and I could draw a type 1 antelope tag close to home more often? Yes, but we can draw further away if needed. I'm not a trophy hunter and don't expect I ever will be. I'm not sure trophy hunting has contributed enough benefits to outweigh the costs. Non residents do have an advantage in some respects. They also butter the biggest portion of the bread relative to G&F funds.

I can hunt elk and deer every year. I can shoot two elk, if I desire. If I'm willing to follow the tags, I can hunt antelope every year. I can hunt multiple antelope with doe/fawn tags. Our tags are very reasonably priced. I can hunt multiple seasons if I so desire, giving me a substantial amount of time hunting. Regardless of quantity or quality of animals, I hunt in some of the most beautiful, rugged country in the states. There is always potential for improvement, but there is also often room to be more appreciate for what we have. Wouldn't trade what we have.
 
I love living and hunting in Wyoming and I think our Game and Fish Department does a good job trying to manage our wildlife according to the public majority's wishes. If you want to harvest bigger trophy class animals, scout as much as you can prior to the season, hunt as much as you can and be willing to pass on the smaller animals.
[font face="verdana" color="green"]
Jake Swensen
 
Wyoming has great opportunity leave it alone. If you want to complain move to Utah and you will cry yourself to sleep every night, while only dreaming of hunting big game animals. MY family had 2 Mule deer tags, 3 Antelope tags, 5 elk tags, between 2 hunters this year. I can't wait for my 4 boys to hit 12 years old, so they can join in on the fun. Visit my Hunter challenge page called "Wyoming Round 2" to see the success we had this year. All the tags except the antelope are general season areas. The antelope was a 1 in 4 chance and for the record, in 25 years of Utah residence we have never hunted antelope.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID60/17.html
 
Talk all the junk you want about Texas. There isn't a shortage of hunters here.

But who owns the land isn't what has y'all by the short and curlies. Your entire wildlife model is fouled up top to bottom.
 
Name another place on earth with as many opportunities as the western us for simply the low price of a tag from a local game and fish dept?
 
I find it funny this is not on the Wyoming Forum...

In 2015, I took advantage of my opportunities in Wyoming by taking great specimens of buck antelope, mule deer and whitetail, a great bull elk, two cow elk and a giant bull bison. Guess this may have something to do with why I have been living 53 yrs in this state.

Some things I noticed from the newbie: give outfitters 30-40% of tags and 50% of registered bait sites. Hmmm, what could this mean about our OP?

Trust me, the Wy G&F hears and sees all the complaints and comments. They are on this forum. For every complaint this native has, they have an opposing opinion. Do they do everything right? Not by a long shot. However, compared to all the western states I am familiar with, they do it the best.

The biggest problem with G&F in Wyo is politics. It's political BS at the top of the Dept, it's an out of control outfitter lobby and it's legislators that try to legislate game management.

Fix that and most problems will take care of themselves.
 
Dude, if your not happy with hunting in Wyoming, you have a screw loose.

- not everyone is entitled to a sheep tag in their lifetime. This doesn't happen anywhere. There just aren't enough sheep to make that happen.

- non-residents get 50% of the antelope tags because the residents don't want them.

- Wyoming has a great combo of opportunity and trophy quality. Game populations & habitat conditions fluctuate , just like anywhere else. If you aren't having a ball hunting in Wyoming , it's your own fault, not Wyomjng G&F.
 
I agree with the last several posts. Wyoming is a great state to live and hunt. More opportunity than most any other western state, and less people.

To the OP, we like it this way. If you don't, MOVE!
 
Look Ma the Boys are at it again. Let it be, Leave it like it is. If you don't like it move. You guys must care more about the kill than the well being of our Wildlife. 75% of the state is worse off than most other western states. The only good parts left will not hold up to this free for all. Most other Sates have already been through what WY. is headed for. There are lots of things that can be done to make things better.
 
Wyoming general is better than LQ? And that's a problem?? I like the fact that I still have good hunting whether I draw a LQ tag or not!

3 bucks over 200 and several bulls over 300 sounds like you're doing pretty well wherever it is you're hunting. Most guys on this site don't even come close to that.

WGFD corrupt? Not so sure about that either. Could they do some things differently? Absolutely, in my opinion. On the other hand, we don't have it too bad.

I agree with some of your points; not so much on others.

Preference Points/bonus points has been debated on this site....kicking a dead horse. Half want it, half don't. Probably not gonna happen anytime soon.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-16 AT 03:26PM (MST)[p]Wyoming is the best state hands down for resident hunters with that being said it could be better. As residents we accept mediocracy because were very selfish and are unwilling to make any concessions.
Wyoming struggles with overcrowding, especially if you take in account the super low resident population.
The 50 day mule deer seasons with multiple opening dates are the perfect storm for crowded public land hunting. To a lesser extent this also holds true for elk hunting.
The LE tag allocation also sucks. Wyoming has one of the worst point systems in the west for Moose, sheep & goats. I'm completely opposed to adding deer, elk & antelope to the current mess. I think most residents could get behind a squared bonus point system with a reasonable waiting period. We also take a the lucky few that draw and give them archery and rifle access to their drawn tag. On face value this sounds like a good idea but the downside is lots of lost opportunity and lots of lost revenue.
Lots of good ideas on this post; some really bad but we residents are at a gridlock and nothing will happen.
 
Good thoughts Nontyp & Fedup...

I love living and hunting in WY, but it's not perfect. . . The best example, meaning the worst, is the deer seasons in many areas. Just too many bucks hitting the dirt...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-16 AT 10:50PM (MST)[p]
>
>Wyoming is the best state hands
>down for resident hunters with
>that being said it could
>be better.

There is always room for better, but I'm not complaining too much.



As residents
>we accept mediocracy because were
>very selfish and are unwilling
>to make any concessions.

I'm afraid the concessions you want won't help, just make things worse; tag allocations- what do you mean here fed? Choose your weapon- no thanks, Wyoming now offers a lifetime Special Archery stamp. Guess special archery seasons won't go anywhere too soon.



>Wyoming struggles with overcrowding, especially if
>you take in account the
>super low resident population.

In most areas getting off the beaten path solves this for me. Changing openers might help without getting radical. All it takes to change things is a lot of support and I don't see a lot of anyone at the meetings I go to. Most sportsman are all talk and no do. They complain but do nothing about it. Total bunch of armchair quarter backs.
 
JM77
We know your a landowner (like I said are own "selfish reasons")and oppose type 9 permits for LE units. I also understand the heartache from the guys who fork out 10k for commissioner tags have with type 9 tags for their own "selfish reasons". For these two reason type 9 permits will face a uphill battle.
I've never advocated a "pick a weapon" for general season (residents). The life time archery licenses would be still "safe". There is reason most other states (especially those states that routinely produce big bulls) do this. For the record I'm not a die hard archery guy. I would much rather hunt both seasons when(if) I draw a tag. I just unselfishly realize that utilizing lower success rates that come with archery would allow us to have more tags with the same demand on the resource. I want better odds and would happily sacrifice hunting both seasons to achieve better odds.
I agree that getting off the beaten path helps with crowding. I backpacked 4+ miles for 11 days last September and saw lots of other hunters that were also off the beaten path. Every trailhead in Western Wyoming has 5-15 trucks the first 5 days of the season.
A common opener would help, pick a region would help. For the record I'm opposed to state Wide LE or any other drastic measures.
Instead residents will do nothing and if any group attempts to think outside the box other people will flare up and stomp out any ideas that challenge their own selfish reasons. Its the way it works in Wyoming.
 
Marburg,

It is great and I would hate to have to go anywhere else. I look at what my buddy's go through in other western states and feel very fortunate. Its payoff for putting up with Wyoming winters.
 
I've hunted in 7 states and 2 provinces in the last 25 years . and I have lots of points in those 7 including max pronghorn and deer left in WY. let me put it this way, WY is my favorite state to hunt hands down. not because it's really the best for any species but because it's always good and I always have a great time.

The management may not be perfect, but find any better . good luck.

If you think you have a problem you need to get out more. you're lucky and you don't know it.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
>JM77
> We know your a landowner
>(like I said are own
>"selfish reasons")and oppose type 9
>permits for LE units. I
>also understand the heartache from
>the guys who fork out
>10k for commissioner tags have
>with type 9 tags for
>their own "selfish reasons".
>For these two reason type
>9 permits will face a
>uphill battle.
> I've never advocated
>a "pick a weapon" for
>general season (residents). The
>life time archery licenses would
>be still "safe". There
>is reason most other states
>(especially those states that routinely
>produce big bulls) do this.
> For the record I'm
>not a die hard archery
>guy. I would much rather
>hunt both seasons when(if) I
>draw a tag. I
>just unselfishly realize that utilizing
>lower success rates that come
>with archery would allow us
>to have more tags with
>the same demand on the
>resource. I want better odds
>and would happily sacrifice hunting
>both seasons to achieve better
>odds.
> I agree that
>getting off the beaten path
>helps with crowding. I
>backpacked 4+ miles for 11
>days last September and saw
>lots of other hunters that
>were also off the beaten
>path. Every trailhead in
>Western Wyoming has 5-15 trucks
>the first 5 days of
>the season.
> A common opener would
>help, pick a region would
>help. For the record
>I'm opposed to state Wide
>LE or any other drastic
>measures.
> Instead residents will
>do nothing and if any
>group attempts to think outside
>the box other people will
>flare up and stomp out
>any ideas that challenge their
>own selfish reasons. Its
>the way it works in
>Wyoming.

What's with this LE stuff? Where are you from anyway, Utah? In Wyoming they are Limited Quota not limited entry. LQ

And what does my family owning a small amount of land have to do with anything?
Selfish reasons? Please be specific as you don't know me enough to judge me, yet it seems you have done just that.

And while you are at it, please tell me what you have done for hunters in Wyoming lately?
 
Good post fedupto.
I have done plenty to make changes, besides complain on here. I had some to do with getting nonresident deer tag quotas cut in regions G and H. a few years ago. I also had a lot to do with getting elk objectives doubled in an important area in Nevada some years ago. Those are my only big successes in my mind, not that I haven't tried other times.

I knew Wyoming was a great place for hunting when I was a young boy, it's mostly about public land ,wild country habitat and the lack of people.

I think modern technology will cause trophy quality to decline in the future, it already has for the deer herds in many areas. Fancy compound and crossbow technology will take a toll along with loose regulations on elk. And the deer hunting quality in many areas has really declined.
Technology changes rapidly, WGF regulations seem to move at a glacial pace.

But I have seen enough and been to enough meetings to understand how hard it is to change anything significantly.
You can't make a sows ear out of a silk purse the saying goes, You can't manufacture habitat and wilderness.
Utah, Nevada. Wyoming, Colorado. They all have different issues to deal with. It's stupid to think otherwise.
 
"Name another place on earth with as many opportunities as the western us for simply the low price of a tag from a local game and fish dept?"


My point exactly DW. I don't know of a single country in the rest of the world so stupid that with the populace exploding and dwindling habitat they still manage wildlife for "opportunity".
 
Wyonative, having better general season chances at a trophy than a limited quota for elk and deer is nothing to be mad about. Come hunt an any bull rifle elk hunt in utah on a general season tag and you'll realize how great it is. I think wyoming is doing something right. You guys just need to kill more wolves and start hunting grizzlies and it will be even beter.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-16 AT 08:14AM (MST)[p]I have had the opportunity to read all the posts. I don't understand why this was not posted in the Wyoming forum. I try to ignore the personal attacks that always seem to arise whenever anybody starts complaining. I used to make those same personal attacks in the forums, until I realized how counter productive it really is.

I moved to Wyoming from Idaho about 16 years ago. Before I left Idaho, I purchased a lifetime hunting license in that state. In the last 16 hunting seasons, I have used that Idaho license only twice. That speaks volumes about why I prefer to hunt in Wyoming as a resident.

I have never been a hunter who measures success by the quantity of animals that I can harvest. I have only had 3 tags in a single season on a couple of occasions. When I drew a moose tag with 10 points in 2011, I chose not to hunt elk very hard that year. I did have an elk tag that year and actually let 3 branch bulls walk. I killed a very average moose after 12 days of hard hunting. It about killed me getting the moose out, but the experience was well worth it. I truly am someone who just loves the experience. I never road hunt and I don't hunt private property. I could kill a nice whitetail buck every year in my backyard, but it isn't what I want to do. I have never put in for a cow elk tag. I haven't drawn a bull elk tag for two straight years. The elk area I put in for is a tough draw and I am fully aware of that.

Last year I came up empty on a limited quota sheep tag, elk tag and a deer tag. I didn't put in for antelope. There are no longer many general elk tags in this area. I ended up with a general deer tag that was good statewide, including G&H areas and for about 45 days in this area. Although I know the Hoback and Greys well, I don't care for the crowds there so I didn't go there. I started hunting deer on the opener in 106. I never saw a single person for the first few days. jm77 is right about the hunting in Wyoming. You just have to get out there and make the effort. I passed up a couple of average mule deer bucks and one old timer. I didn't want it to end that soon. I harvested a decent buck on the 20th of October. I took a short break and took my son hunting for deer in late November. He was successful on an average mule deer buck.

This year, I hope to draw an Area 1 sheep tag with 15 PP. I need to draw it soon given my age. I know what a challenge it is to hunt sheep in that country. It is very rugged and not all that accessible. I will be hunting on foot. If I draw that tag, it will alter what elk and deer tags I put in for. I appreciate the fact that the Game and Fish has extended the application dates for elk, deer and antelope so that I will know if I draw a sheep tag before I apply for those tags.

I complain about the Wyoming Game and Fish on occasion. My complaints may be different than those who have previously posted in this thread. My complaints usually involve the following:

1. The wardens and biologists are constantly carving up areas around here and changing seasons and quotas. They always get what they want no matter how much anyone complains. I don't think they give enough consideration to the unintended consequences of their actions. Shortening a season in one area, often results in more hunting pressure in an adjacent area with a later season. There is ample proof of this with the increased hunting pressure for deer on the North Fork of the Shoshone. I actually had a warden tell me this year that he and the biologist had jumped the gun by turning Elk Area 51 to LQ from a general area. It is a little late for that realization.

2. I believe there is a lack of control on outfitters and guides hunting public land. I personally don't care what the outfitters do on private property that they lease. A lot of this falls on the USFS which seems to sell anyone a special use permit to hunt national forest. However, I don't ever seem to hear that the Game and Fish is much involved in this issue and its affect on game populations. They only seem to be concerned about the bootleg guides and outfitters that pop up in these areas. This year, the local warden wasted a lot of time and money prosecuting a case that partially involved this issue.

3. Up here, the wardens and biologists spend a ridiculous amount of time screwing with the grizzly bears and the wolves. You can't drive around here without seeing bear traps going up and down the road just about everywhere. Constantly darting and moving bears does not improve the bear's disposition. However, the growing grizzly bear population does give the state biologists some job security

A lot of folks ##### about the PP system. I don't want to see the residents stuck with such a system for antelope, elk or deer. Although it is not perfect for sheep and moose, no one can complain that they didn't know about it from the outset. Starting to acquire points for sheep and moose now may not make much sense. You can do the math and decide if it will work for you or for your children. If I draw a sheep tag, I will be done with the PP system.

I just want to say it again. Just get out there and hit it hard. jm 77 has that right. You will have some great opportunities in some beautiful country.

just sayin...mh
 
I've been down this road so many times I just can't even do it any longer. There's so much animosity and so many personal attacks, I just can't do it any more.

There are some good things about the Wyoming system but it's not perfect. It could be improved. But it's not likely much will change.

We've plowed this ground so many times I won't get involved on MM any longer. I'll spend my time enhancing habitat and killing coyotes. And I'll hunt as hard as I can here at home and elsewhere.

I used to be delusional and think the G&F would listen, and possibly make changes based on public input. Not gonna happen.

Do what you can as an individual and enjoy what we have. I really appreciate your passion and wish everyone well in their efforts.

I'll go take pics of bucks and stay out of this stuff from now on.

Best of luck to everyone and I hope only the best for Wyoming wildlife.
 
JM77,
If I'm not mistaken your family receives landowner tags in a limited entry area?
Your group, some other landowners and a couple guys that buy commissioner tags squashed a bunch of great type 9 (for their own selfish reasons) opportunity that would have given more hunters super quality hunts in a portion of the state that is mostly limited quota. We have great support for these hunts at our local meetings.
I've done plenty for wildlife over the years including guzzler repair, predator control (42 coyotes in 2015) and countless hours volunteering for wildlife groups. I know you do the same and I know your very active in representing sportsmen.
At the end of the day I would argue what have any of us done in Wyoming? In the 14 years that I've lived in Wyoming the only difference is theres less deer, more hunter crowding & most residents aren't willing to give a inch for "selfish reasons". This statement is not a personal attack against anyone I'm just stating fact.
 
>JM77,
>If I'm not mistaken your family
>receives landowner tags in a
>limited entry area?
>Your group, some other landowners and
>a couple guys that buy
>commissioner tags squashed a bunch
>of great type 9 (for
>their own selfish reasons) opportunity
>that would have given more
>hunters super quality hunts in
>a portion of the state
>that is mostly limited quota.
> We have great support
>for these hunts at our
>local meetings.
> I've done plenty for
>wildlife over the years including
>guzzler repair, predator control (42
>coyotes in 2015) and countless
>hours volunteering for wildlife groups.
> I know you do
>the same and I know
>your very active in representing
>sportsmen.
>At the end of the day
>I would argue what have
>any of us done in
>Wyoming? In the 14 years
>that I've lived in Wyoming
>the only difference is theres
>less deer, more hunter crowding
>& most residents aren't willing
>to give a inch for
>"selfish reasons". This statement
>is not a personal attack
>against anyone I'm just stating
>fact.

!4 years is long enough Eric, Utah is calling, hate to see you stress so much over "selfish" Wyoming residents.
 
I stress about a lot life, kids & work not selfish residents. I'm not leaving Wyoming anytime soon. Wyoming hunting is awesome. I'm just saying it could be better, much better. And for the record not all of us are selfish just some.
I'm from Utah and still hunt Utah whenever I can. I also hunt most other western states. This year Utah added 5-10 new opportunities for the Limited entry hunts including 8 or so late season muzzleloader hunts. This translates to better odds and super high quality hunts when you get a tag. Now in Utah these tags won't help much because of the huge population base. But these same tags in Wyoming (small population) would go a long way in providing good quality hunts. It would removes hunters from general season areas. It would be a win win.
 
>I stress about a lot life,
>kids & work not selfish
>residents. I'm not leaving Wyoming
>anytime soon. Wyoming hunting is
>awesome. I'm just saying
>it could be better, much
>better. And for the
>record not all of us
>are selfish just some.
> I'm from Utah and
>still hunt Utah whenever I
>can. I also hunt
>most other western states. This
>year Utah added 5-10 new
>opportunities for the Limited entry
>hunts including 8 or so
>late season muzzleloader hunts. This
>translates to better odds and
>super high quality hunts when
>you get a tag.
>Now in Utah these tags
>won't help much because of
>the huge population base.
>But these same tags in
>Wyoming (small population) would go
>a long way in providing
>good quality hunts. It
>would removes hunters from general
>season areas. It would be
>a win win.

5-10 new hunting opportunities, wow impressive, but not at the cost of that many more trophy mule deer bucks harvested in late season. What about 300 more LQ elk tags Eric, would that be a win-win?

While you were stressing over landowners, type 9 tags and selfish residents, we were righting a wrong and 300 more Wyo resident elk hunters drew LQ tags in 2015. Three hundred residents didn't have to hunt general, even though Wyoming has some great general elk hunting. All that without changing a tradition I would like to see my grandkids get to experience. Now that's impressive!
 
Like I said earlier I stress over lots but landowners, and selfish people are not one of them. Just stating facts. Congrats on the 300 Tags but important to note that it is not anywhere near Southwest Wyoming where we've lost a couple hundred of deer/elk tags over the last few years. We could of replaced a portion of the lost opportunity with 50-60 limited quota type 9 super quality deer/elk hunts in Southwest Wyoming but landowners & commissioner tag buyers put a stop to it.
As to tradition I agree and in a few short years I'm excited to let my 7year old son hunt with a bow & a rifle on general season hunts. Since I don't get landowner tags and won't buy him a commissioner tag He'll have to draw a LQ tag. His chances in southwest WY are astronomical due to the system.
 
>Like I said earlier I stress
>over lots but landowners, and
>selfish people are not one
>of them. Just stating facts.
> Congrats on
>the 300 Tags but important
>to note that it is
>not anywhere near Southwest Wyoming
>where we've lost a couple
>hundred of deer/elk tags over
>the last few years. We
>could of replaced a portion
>of the lost opportunity with
>50-60 limited quota type 9
>super quality deer/elk hunts in
>Southwest Wyoming but landowners &
>commissioner tag buyers put a
>stop to it.
>As to tradition I agree and
>in a few short years
>I'm excited to let my
>7year old son hunt with
>a bow & a rifle
>on general season hunts.
>Since I don't get landowner
>tags and won't buy him
>a commissioner tag He'll have
>to draw a LQ tag.
> His chances in southwest
>WY are astronomical due to
>the system.

You seem to be hung up on landowner and commissioner tags. How come? If you have a problem with them, attend a Commission meeting and let them know what you think. I heard that commissioner's tags were a topic at the last meeting. The Commissioners seem to think they are just fine.

You could also comment on why your son won't draw tags due to the "system". I thought you were a fan of the random draw?

By the way, those 300 elk tags were statewide, so southwest Wyo benefited too. Guess you don't have to stress about that either now. With all the big game hunting we as residents have available to us every year, why not just hunt your heart out Eric? I do...
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-16 AT 10:47AM (MST)[p]Don't worry the next time we have type 9 tags in our region on the table we will have a busload at the commission meeting.
I hate the Random draw! The only thing worse than the random draw is the current Wyoming Preference point system. We could come up with a point system that would work and I would work hard to support but we'd have to think out of the box and some people hate thinking. It would be a squared style bonus point system with a reasonable waiting period for LQ tags. If a guy draws a HA100 elk tag & is out of the draw for (type 1 & 9 only) two years the chances of him drawing again before the people who haven't had a tag go up substantially (because the people that haven't yet drawn now have 2 more squared pts). Something like this would also work to address the root cause of low draw odds which is too many applicants for a limited # of tags.
I would also like to see a youth mentoring program like Arizona or Utah. He a if a parent or grandparent draws a LQ tag he can donate his tag to his 12-16yr youth; or maybe the youth can hunt with the parent/grandparent) but they have to stay together and can only harvest one animal. This eliminates the argument that youth have a unfair advantage at the draw with any point system.
Until then I will hunt and am blessed to have the best general season hunting in the west
 

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