How cold is too cold???

NvrEnuf · Dec 8, 2005

I'm just curious to find out at what point is it just too cold for mule deer to survive?

I'm pretty sure a lot of it probably depends on what time of year it is and what kind of shape the animals are in at the time. From what I've noticed personally it seems that most of the winter kill occurs early in the spring (March/April) and a good portion of the animals that die are fawns and older bucks (3 1/2yrs+). My guess is competition during the rut wears some of them down to a point where they just don't ever recover. Right now it seems to me that most of the does and fawns are in pretty good shape with plenty of fat reserves to get them through an average winter. The feed that was available this year in most of the western states has to have helped them prepare for winter. So assuming the deer are healthy at what point will they actually start freezing to death?

The main reason I am asking is one area that I like to go check out wintering deer in got down to -52 degrees night before last. That can't be good...

Thanks,

NvrEnuf

elkantlers · Dec 8, 2005

I think you are right. It depends on the shape the deer are in. Right now they are probably just fine. those same temps in late Febuary could kill some deer.

-52 degrees, brrrrrrrrrr makes me cold just thinking about it.

sjhgraysage · Dec 8, 2005

I agree. Cold can be the killer. If game can get through the snow to food they usually do well. Around Yellowstone elk do ok with quite a bit of snow, but prolonged below zero temps with significant snow make getting that marginal winter food more work than it gives them energy, so they go down hill faster than if the temps were warmer say +20 to 30 degrees.
Around E. Washington and N. Idaho now we have lows around zero and highs in the high teens to low twenties with any where from 2 to 12" of snow depending on location, more up high, plenty of snow for good skiing.
How does it look around the rest of the west for wintering game?

woodruffhunter · Dec 8, 2005

I agree, food is a big factor. I think as long as they can get through the snow they usually will be all right. I feel sorry for the deer up here, -37 this morning!

kilowatt · Dec 8, 2005

-52 WHERE WAS THIS?????

Yesterdays coldest spot was offically at West yellowstone at -45 DEGREES according to todays paper.

Brian

ismith · Dec 8, 2005

Actually the temp has very little to do with big game winter kills. Its the ability for the elk and deer to access food under the snow that is the big factor. Cold temps and little snow will actually be better for big game then mild temps and lots of snow. Also keep in mind that wind chill has no effect on deer and elk.

horseshoe · Dec 8, 2005

There are even some Mulies in southern Yukon territory so I would'nt worry much about it. Fact is even whitails are crowding the Yukon border these days.

elkantlers · Dec 8, 2005

I think the temp he is refering to is a place called "Middle Sink" in Cache Vally Utah. Anyway thats what I remember hearing on the news.

Skunkterd · Dec 8, 2005

ismith

Actually the temp has very little to do with big game winter kills. Its the ability for the elk and deer to access food under the snow that is the big factor. Cold temps and little snow will actually be better for big game then mild temps and lots of snow. Also keep in mind that wind chill has no effect on deer and elk.

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING!!!!!

AndymanSavage · Dec 8, 2005

>-52 WHERE WAS THIS?????
>
>Yesterdays coldest spot was offically at
>West yellowstone at -45 DEGREES
>according to todays paper.
>
>Brian

The paper only refers to cities and towns, I assume that these deer aren't in any metropolitan area.
Andy

NvrEnuf · Dec 8, 2005

It was in.... It was up there by..... Oh freak..... I just had it on the tip of my tounge..... Give me a minute and I'll try to remember the name of the place.... OH COMON! It's up there by that one areaaaaaaa......

I give up. I can't remember!

NvrEnuf

Dmanmastertracker · Dec 8, 2005

Nvr, -I work in wildlife habitat as part of my job. Studies show that deer that reside more North, towards the pole )Ex. Canada and the northern US), are genetically larger in average body size due to their bodies adaptation to their climate. Alpine deer also exhibit the same trait of heavier average body size to withstand the brutal alpine winters. Snow depth is the main factor, after a year of deep, heavy snow, their may be some mortality, but usually only the sicker/ very old/young deer.

ismith · Dec 8, 2005

Skunkterd,
I dont smoke.

bobcatbess · Dec 8, 2005

THE PLACE IS PETER SINKS/MIDDLE SINK!!!

THERES BEEN A COUPLE OF 'JOKERS' SNOWSHOEING IN TO TAKE PEMPS,YES IT IS THAT COLD,THE COLDEST PLACE IN UTAH ON AVERAGE THAT I KNOW OF!!!

MA NOT BE OFFICIAL BUT ALOT OF TIMES IF IT WAS ITS WAY COLDER THAN YELLOWSTONE & THATS A COLD PLACE ITSELF!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR THE BIKINI WEATHER!!!

bobcatbess · Dec 8, 2005

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

I JUST REMEMBERED I SEEN GALS ON THE NEWS RIDING THEIR SNOW MACHINES IN BIKINI'S UP AT DANIELS SUMMIT!!!

DAMN I WISH THEY'D LET ME KNOW WHEN THESE EVENTS WERE GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING I'D EVEN LET THEM USE MY MACHINE!!!

NvrEnuf · Dec 9, 2005

Wait a minute bobcat, you own a freaking snow mobile!!?? Maybe you were talking about a different type of "machine"?

NvrEnuf

ismith · Dec 9, 2005

Insulated bikinis?

BCBOY · Dec 9, 2005

Do ya think this is cold enough?

It is actually the combination of deep snow and real cold temperatures that will lead to severe winter mortality. Deer typically do fine in cold temps and low snow, and are also fine with heavy snow and warmer temps. In the cold their bodies need to burn a lot more calories to stay warm. If they have to work really hard in deep snow just to get to their food they will burn way more calories than they intake, therefore depleting their fat stores. In years like this where the majority of the West had great moisture and unreal vegetation growth, the deer will be going into the winter with much higher fat stores and therefore will be able to cope a lot easier.

257Tony · Dec 9, 2005

Middle sink and Peters Sink in the Franklin Basin area is where the -52 was, they actually hold the all time record low for the lower 48 at -72......Your daily useless trivia.

supersider34 · Dec 9, 2005

Totally agree with BCBoy.
My buck this year I shot in Nov. He had a ton of fat on him. Does and other bucks where looking good last time I saw them also.

TFinalshot · Dec 9, 2005

ismith, would you mind explaining your satement, "Also keep in mind that wind chill has no effect on deer and elk." If you have a reference, I'd like to read it for myself.

Thanks, Finalshot

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).

B_F_E · Dec 10, 2005

Yup BC, that would be to cold.

Gator · Dec 10, 2005

In South Dakota we have windchill in the -30 alot due to "wind" deer move in low pockets,creekbed,highweeds,treebelts,fencerows,croprows,balestacks,ETC to get out of the wind same as the rest of livestock, some are just like everything else they are to dumb to get out of the wind and some do die, but the % is pretty low due to cold. DEEP SNOW and NO FEED is the 2 most winterkill problems But they are behind road kill because deer will move out of area's that have deep snow and move into the area's that dont' that don't have deep snow "Roads,pastures,feedlots,Etc" Wish I would taken picutres of some of the deer yards that happen during the winter in South Dakota when I was a kid they was great to see all those deer(hundreds) in one spot, But it wasn't good for the deer as coyotes move into those yards and really did a job on the weak. Ranchers trying to keep those same deer away from thier haystacks, Really deep snow covering up feed is the greatest reason deer die in the winter.

ismith · Dec 11, 2005

TFinalshot,
Ill eat crow, i should have written "Also keep in mind that wind chill effects deer and elk differantly than humans." A healthy deer or elk will have no bare skin. I have never seen a deer or elk sweat either.
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill
Heres some info about wintering elk.
http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrec...2&q=elk+wintering&uid=787125718&setcookie=yes
http://jrm.library.arizona.edu/data/1988/416/15kufe.pdf
Look at table two