utahbigbull
Active Member
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- 868
Poached Cache buck penalty
- Thread starter utahbigbull
- Start date
nontypical
Long Time Member
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- 4,199
$1583?? 18 months?? This guy got a slap on the hand.
utahbigbull
Active Member
- Messages
- 868
>This was an archery buck in
>velvet...what about that big non-typical
>supposedly shot during rifle that's
>under investigation...I didn't know there
>was 3 cases of poached
>bucks in Logan!
This is not the Hyde Park buck. This is the thread on the two in this discussion if I have it right.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/24514.html
>velvet...what about that big non-typical
>supposedly shot during rifle that's
>under investigation...I didn't know there
>was 3 cases of poached
>bucks in Logan!
This is not the Hyde Park buck. This is the thread on the two in this discussion if I have it right.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/24514.html
Captain_coues
Very Active Member
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- 1,451
LAST EDITED ON Apr-23-14 AT 04:13PM (MST)[p] 18 months is not enough. I've gone 3 years without drawing a tag before.
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
I'm mixed on this one. Shooting a deer, during season, with a tag in city limits is a stretch to call poaching in my mind. He broke a city shooting ordinance. $1500 is plenty justice.
The flip side though is that it is now cost effective to shoot city deer as opposed to a guided hunt. Also, archery hunting in city limits is bad publicity.
The flip side though is that it is now cost effective to shoot city deer as opposed to a guided hunt. Also, archery hunting in city limits is bad publicity.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,994
WAFJ!
WAFJ!
WAFJ!
The DWR Act like they've really Won Something!
They act like they've taught the Law Breaker a Lesson!
8 hours Community Service,PPPPPPPfffffffffffffffffffff!
JUDAS!
F'N!
PRIEST!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
WAFJ!
WAFJ!
The DWR Act like they've really Won Something!
They act like they've taught the Law Breaker a Lesson!
8 hours Community Service,PPPPPPPfffffffffffffffffffff!
JUDAS!
F'N!
PRIEST!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
E
elkun
Guest
$1583. hell a cow elk tag sells for more than that ,sounds like the fish cops didn't have much of a case, and bluffed him...
E
elkun
Guest
is there any more trophy bucks their ? if so' ill see the $1583 and raise it$ 200 and if I kill I wont hunt for 24 months.
utahbigbull
Active Member
- Messages
- 868
> is there any more trophy
>bucks their ? if so'
>ill see the $1583 and
>raise it$ 200 and
>if I kill I wont
> hunt for 24 months.
>
You have to get caught first! Then, and only then will you have to pay that price if you play a game of hide and seek with the antlers.
>bucks their ? if so'
>ill see the $1583 and
>raise it$ 200 and
>if I kill I wont
> hunt for 24 months.
>
You have to get caught first! Then, and only then will you have to pay that price if you play a game of hide and seek with the antlers.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,994
elkun is perty sneaky!
But!
If We ever see him Run to a Big Buck Contest with a Feathered Buck We'll know something ain't quite Right!
Remember elkun!
The Rez charges more for their Bucks!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
But!
If We ever see him Run to a Big Buck Contest with a Feathered Buck We'll know something ain't quite Right!
Remember elkun!
The Rez charges more for their Bucks!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
llamapacker
Moderator
- Messages
- 1,068
I see nothing in the story to indicate the DWR really had a case. I agree they bluffed the offender into an omission of guilt. Perhaps he was guilty, but this case smacks of trial by public opinion /internet jury. Apparently there was no proof where the deer was killed. Just because residents say the buck lived within the city, he must have been killed there. And probably was, but there was no proof. So they trump up a charge of evidence tampering when they can't prove their case. It doesn't give one much confidence in our law enforcement.
For all of you willing to condemn this man, just realize we don't really know what happened. But our government manufactured a case against this person, designed to get a conviction of any type,rather than proving the charge that so riled people up. They can do that against anybody, and will if we continue to accept this behavior.
I'm not condoning illegal hunting. If this buck was killed illegally, prove your case and get your man. I'd be entirely happy with the prosecution. But when you can't prove your case, don't manufacture a case, do your leg work and get him the next time, if necessary. I'd have a lot more faith in our system if they built the case properly rather than using a technicality to claim they are serving the public good.
BIll
For all of you willing to condemn this man, just realize we don't really know what happened. But our government manufactured a case against this person, designed to get a conviction of any type,rather than proving the charge that so riled people up. They can do that against anybody, and will if we continue to accept this behavior.
I'm not condoning illegal hunting. If this buck was killed illegally, prove your case and get your man. I'd be entirely happy with the prosecution. But when you can't prove your case, don't manufacture a case, do your leg work and get him the next time, if necessary. I'd have a lot more faith in our system if they built the case properly rather than using a technicality to claim they are serving the public good.
BIll
Zeke
Long Time Member
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- 10,604
Seems like the long arm of the law has a little slime on it! It's not quite the victory for LE that I was hoping for and kind of leaves me scratching my head.
He wasn't convicted of a wildlife infraction but yet he paid restitution and lost hunting privileges for 18 months? Seems weird to me. This guy was "convicted" based on a popularity contest rather than any proof at all.
Was he guilty? Only he knows for sure in spite of what everyone "assumed" about this buck's travel plans. The message is clear: talk with no one without an attorney present.. and even then don't talk!
I've got to agree with Bill on this one, convict the dude based on evidence rather than because he "moved" the antlers!
Zeke
He wasn't convicted of a wildlife infraction but yet he paid restitution and lost hunting privileges for 18 months? Seems weird to me. This guy was "convicted" based on a popularity contest rather than any proof at all.
Was he guilty? Only he knows for sure in spite of what everyone "assumed" about this buck's travel plans. The message is clear: talk with no one without an attorney present.. and even then don't talk!
I've got to agree with Bill on this one, convict the dude based on evidence rather than because he "moved" the antlers!
Zeke
That's how these idiotic prosecutors and investigators work. As long as they can get any type of conviction they're happy with it. If they cant prove someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt they shouldn't have a job. This guy should of remained silent and had a good lawyer. Im sure most are happy with the results but its a chickens#*t way for the prosecutor and investigator to get a higher conviction percentage. True "justice" is just a joke for most people anymore. We still don't know if he was guilty of poaching! Sadly, "innocent until proven guilty" is a thing of the past.
Gunnie3035
Active Member
- Messages
- 168
>I see nothing in the story
>to indicate the DWR really
>had a case. I agree
>they bluffed the offender into
>an omission of guilt. Perhaps
>he was guilty, but this
>case smacks of trial by
>public opinion /internet jury. Apparently
>there was no proof where
>the deer was killed. Just
>because residents say the buck
>lived within the city, he
>must have been killed there.
>And probably was, but there
>was no proof. So they
>trump up a charge of
>evidence tampering when they can't
>prove their case. It doesn't
>give one much confidence in
>our law enforcement.
>For all of you willing to
>condemn this man, just realize
>we don't really know what
>happened. But our government manufactured
>a case against this person,
>designed to get a conviction
>of any type,rather than proving
>the charge that so riled
>people up. They can
>do that against anybody, and
>will if we continue to
>accept this behavior.
>
>I'm not condoning illegal hunting. If
>this buck was killed illegally,
>prove your case and get
>your man. I'd be entirely
>happy with the prosecution.
>But when you can't prove
>your case, don't manufacture a
>case, do your leg work
>and get him the next
>time, if necessary. I'd have
>a lot more faith in
>our system if they built
>the case properly rather than
>using a technicality to claim
>they are serving the public
>good.
>BIll
"Just realize,we really don't know what happened", but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions and accusations that aren't in the article. A guilty plea is not an omission it's a freaking guilty plea. I will agree they did manufacture the case, isn't it their job to build (manufacture) cases? Go read the evidence statue, they didn't trump up anything. I wonder sometimes.....
>to indicate the DWR really
>had a case. I agree
>they bluffed the offender into
>an omission of guilt. Perhaps
>he was guilty, but this
>case smacks of trial by
>public opinion /internet jury. Apparently
>there was no proof where
>the deer was killed. Just
>because residents say the buck
>lived within the city, he
>must have been killed there.
>And probably was, but there
>was no proof. So they
>trump up a charge of
>evidence tampering when they can't
>prove their case. It doesn't
>give one much confidence in
>our law enforcement.
>For all of you willing to
>condemn this man, just realize
>we don't really know what
>happened. But our government manufactured
>a case against this person,
>designed to get a conviction
>of any type,rather than proving
>the charge that so riled
>people up. They can
>do that against anybody, and
>will if we continue to
>accept this behavior.
>
>I'm not condoning illegal hunting. If
>this buck was killed illegally,
>prove your case and get
>your man. I'd be entirely
>happy with the prosecution.
>But when you can't prove
>your case, don't manufacture a
>case, do your leg work
>and get him the next
>time, if necessary. I'd have
>a lot more faith in
>our system if they built
>the case properly rather than
>using a technicality to claim
>they are serving the public
>good.
>BIll
"Just realize,we really don't know what happened", but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions and accusations that aren't in the article. A guilty plea is not an omission it's a freaking guilty plea. I will agree they did manufacture the case, isn't it their job to build (manufacture) cases? Go read the evidence statue, they didn't trump up anything. I wonder sometimes.....
treedagain
Long Time Member
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- 6,522
more than likely he pled guilty to the BS charge because it was cheaper than hiring a lawyer for a trial. my question is how can the DWR tell you not to move the rack? they knew he had it what the heck does it matter if he moved it? I am sure they took a DNA sample.
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
Gunnie3035
Active Member
- Messages
- 168
>more than likely he pled guilty
>to the BS charge because
>it was cheaper than hiring
>a lawyer for a trial.
>my question is how can
>the DWR tell you not
>to move the rack? they
>knew he had it what
>the heck does it matter
>if he moved it? I
>am sure they took a
>DNA sample.
Well if ya actually read the article is said a home in Wellsville where the rack was being stored. Now this is an assumption on my part, but one would assume it was most likely a taxidermist. Either way not the defendants own home. If the CO told him it was under investigation and to leave the rack where it was until he finished and he removed said rack it probably is tampering. Afterward if he refused to give it up when requested to do so that is obstruction. Maybe he pled out cause he was guilty?
I don't get you guys. Ya scream foul every time some kills a backyard buck and when the dwr does take action ya cry they prosecuted someone. So what exactly do you want?
>to the BS charge because
>it was cheaper than hiring
>a lawyer for a trial.
>my question is how can
>the DWR tell you not
>to move the rack? they
>knew he had it what
>the heck does it matter
>if he moved it? I
>am sure they took a
>DNA sample.
Well if ya actually read the article is said a home in Wellsville where the rack was being stored. Now this is an assumption on my part, but one would assume it was most likely a taxidermist. Either way not the defendants own home. If the CO told him it was under investigation and to leave the rack where it was until he finished and he removed said rack it probably is tampering. Afterward if he refused to give it up when requested to do so that is obstruction. Maybe he pled out cause he was guilty?
I don't get you guys. Ya scream foul every time some kills a backyard buck and when the dwr does take action ya cry they prosecuted someone. So what exactly do you want?
Some of you guy's are not very good at speculating.
The DWR did have an eye witness to the hunter loading the buck in the city.
The hunter had a legal archery tag for the Cache unit, the deer was shot during the season, but in the city of North Logan.
I don't have many details, but I know that.
Last year was a hard year for three Cache city bucks.
The DWR did have an eye witness to the hunter loading the buck in the city.
The hunter had a legal archery tag for the Cache unit, the deer was shot during the season, but in the city of North Logan.
I don't have many details, but I know that.
Last year was a hard year for three Cache city bucks.
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,604
LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-14 AT 01:30PM (MST)[p]There's a echo in here!
Since they had a witness I wonder why they didn't prosecute him on wildlife charges. Oh, moving the rack is such a big deal!
By the way, speculating and rumoring is what we do best here on MM. Why take that away from us?
Here's not speculation; Why were his hunting privilages taken when he wasn't convicted of a wildlife crime? Still seems weird to me. I'd better not get a traffic ticket while headed out hunting!
Zeke
Since they had a witness I wonder why they didn't prosecute him on wildlife charges. Oh, moving the rack is such a big deal!
By the way, speculating and rumoring is what we do best here on MM. Why take that away from us?
Here's not speculation; Why were his hunting privilages taken when he wasn't convicted of a wildlife crime? Still seems weird to me. I'd better not get a traffic ticket while headed out hunting!
Zeke
DeerMadness
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,420
I thought it was an 8K fine in Utah if it was over 24 in wide thus making it a trophy. This guy got off easy...
All I know is what was in the article, and I know one who was dirrectly testifying in the case, who told me they had an eye witness that saw the hunter load the buck in the city. He shot the deer in the season with a permit, however in the city with a bow. That is all I've been told. I know some are disappointed and think the punishment was a slap on the wrist and some think the punishment fit the crime. I
DeerMadness
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,420
The guy that in 2004 shot a Oquirrh mtn trophy with a Wasatch archery tag - he got 5 years hunting privileges revoked and an 8K fine...Is it a lesser crime if you do it in town? I'm not stirring the pot but I don't see the difference.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,994
Anybody ever try this?
http://www.utahsright.com/charges.php?
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
http://www.utahsright.com/charges.php?
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
heartshot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,474
>The guy that in 2004 shot
>a Oquirrh mtn trophy with
>a Wasatch archery tag -
>he got 5 years hunting
>privileges revoked and an 8K
>fine...Is it a lesser crime
>if you do it in
>town? I'm not stirring the
>pot but I don't see
>the difference.
In my Opinion Only
The difference is the Wasatch tag was not good for the Oquirrh mtn area.
For this Cache valley buck, the hunter shot the deer with a valid license. Meaning the deer was shot during his tags valid season and was shot within the area authorized by the tag.
Shooting/hunting within city limits is a separate issue. Different Cities allow all, none, or some of the following in city limits: Shooting a rifle, Shooting a shotgun, Shooting a bow and arrow.
If North Logan doesn't allow hunting or shooting with a bow, then the hunter has broken a city ordinance, not a wildlife crime. The wildlife crimes were added as part of plea deal and not necessarily because a wildlife crime was committed.
>a Oquirrh mtn trophy with
>a Wasatch archery tag -
>he got 5 years hunting
>privileges revoked and an 8K
>fine...Is it a lesser crime
>if you do it in
>town? I'm not stirring the
>pot but I don't see
>the difference.
In my Opinion Only
The difference is the Wasatch tag was not good for the Oquirrh mtn area.
For this Cache valley buck, the hunter shot the deer with a valid license. Meaning the deer was shot during his tags valid season and was shot within the area authorized by the tag.
Shooting/hunting within city limits is a separate issue. Different Cities allow all, none, or some of the following in city limits: Shooting a rifle, Shooting a shotgun, Shooting a bow and arrow.
If North Logan doesn't allow hunting or shooting with a bow, then the hunter has broken a city ordinance, not a wildlife crime. The wildlife crimes were added as part of plea deal and not necessarily because a wildlife crime was committed.
paddlehead
Member
- Messages
- 64
So, with all the talk of this specific Cache city buck, what ever happened to the most notorious Cache city buck? I know the Hyde Park buck is dead, but I have heard so many different stories.... Anyone know if it was legit or otherwise? I would think if it were legit there would be a lot more pictures of it floating around...
Not condemning anyone. Just wondering if anyone has any official word on it.
Not condemning anyone. Just wondering if anyone has any official word on it.
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,584
I still see people crying about 'innocent until proven guilty' over this guy? I simply don't get it. When you plead GUILTY you are in fact, and by law, no longer innocent. It is an admission of GUILT! You are admitting I that you are in fact GUILTY of every element of the crime which you were accused. Therefore, GUILTY!
Never mind the fact that people talking about your presumption of innocence to the general public as opposed to just a court of law is akin to complaining about 'free speech' when a moderator deletes your post on a privately owned forum. (Hint---neither applies!)
Dude admitted GUILT, and for that got charges dismissed. That happens in probably 90+% of the criminal cases filed in this country. And that means he is now GUILTY. Just sayin....
Never mind the fact that people talking about your presumption of innocence to the general public as opposed to just a court of law is akin to complaining about 'free speech' when a moderator deletes your post on a privately owned forum. (Hint---neither applies!)
Dude admitted GUILT, and for that got charges dismissed. That happens in probably 90+% of the criminal cases filed in this country. And that means he is now GUILTY. Just sayin....
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