I LEFT SFW!

fishon

fishon

Very Active Member
Messages
1,052
This will not be a post to air dirty laundry, this is simply info coming from the horses mouth. As of 5-27-04 I no longer represent sfw in any way,shape or form.

There are some issues that I brought up to the sfw board because I thought they needed to be aware of them. What they do with the concerns I told them is strictly up to them.

I bled sfw for 4+ years and gave them everything I had. I owe them nothing and they owe me nothing. I have chosen to continue with my radio show that is going really well, thanks to all of you that have supported it.

I do not believe that sfw is for me anymore, we all have to make our own choices. I have maid my bed and now I will sleep in it, the same goes for sfw.

No dout there will be rumors about this departure, what you do with those rumors is your choice. All I ask is that you find out the truth.

yours in wildlife

tony abbott
 
fishon...i know i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so what is 'sfw'? thanks
 
Tony hey April fools day was a while ago. Are you sure this is not some cruel prank. I have been a long time SFW antagonist
for the simple fact that there is no longer a checks and balances system for setting wildlife laws and rules in Utah.
SFW has grown to the point that they have very little trouble pushing their agenda weather or not it makes sense for hunters or wildlife. The absolutely awesome work that SFW had done in the past ( PROP 5 ) and even the recent purchase near Kamas
are overshadowed by a present perceptionof being all about horns cash and expansion to other states at all costs.

Good luck Tony
 
"You want the truth, YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH"!! :) j/k

SO tell us the truth of your departure, so all rumors we hear from here on out will be null and void!

TUFF
 
What gives Fishon???????

All of the rhetoric of SFW saying they are going to save wildlife is untrue? Could it now be said that SFW is a self-centered, money grubbing, sheep infested organization? Tell me the rumors, or should I just say "I told you so?"

Finish the story Fishon.
 
Tony, I applaud you for not airing the laundry here, you are a true gentleman. It takes GUTS to decide that what you've bled for is no longer what you felt it to be and to leave with grace.

Keep up the good work on the show, I look forward to further harassing you and that Sanpete county backwoods hick on future shows....LOL

You guys really need to get over the 'deer in the headlights' look when you get spotlighted in the parking lot, tho.

Pred
 
Rambo, (Tony)

I knew it was going to get ugly with SFW. I told you so!!!
It makes me sick to see all the politics that are now present in SFW. But, like Don says, "it's all about politics". This coming from a man that said he did not want anything to do with politics years ago. It will be interesting to see what becomes of SFW.

I am still undecided how I stand with the organization?? A lot of my friends and customers have sworn not to support SFW in any form or way. I would like to see things change and move towards a more "neutral" statue. Too many people upset right now.

I hear the tags are going to be transferable next year. So much for auctions. Just tell the customer how much you want anymore for reselling them a tag!!!! Auctioning off a tag will be a joke!!

Good luck getting customer service anymore. Tony, you always got right back to me with all my auction and banquet needs. Let's just say without mentioning names, that I do not get the same service you gave me from any of the other guys.

Tony thanks for all the good you did, and good luck with the Radio show. Let everyone know the time and day of your talk radio show.?

Sincerely,
Rob Snow

Predator, do you have a big bull moose tied down for me yet???
 
Well, hell Tony.......it was always fun and always somewhat informative to go back and forth with you on a topic or argue a point or position. One thing no one can ever say is that you didn't bleed SFW blood when you where invovled. You always back them and gave your best to them.

Keep the faith in yourself Tony.

Sad to think that now you will never draw another tag in Utah though....

Robb
 
I guess it doesn't really matter whether us other guys know what the heck you are talking about since it doesn't involve us anyway, but it would at least be nice to know the name of the organization that you are getting out of.

Let's see, could it be: Some Fabulous Wildlife? So Fat Women? Some Feel Wierd? Somebody Farted Where? ......

Just curious.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON May-29-04 AT 06:57AM (MST)[p]You and the SFW have always been synonymous in my mind Tony, it will seem strange not having you there anymore. We may not have shared the same view point on a number of wildlife issues, but I always respected you for taking a stand. Good luck to you in the future.

BTW, if you're looking for work, I need a gun and beer caddy for my next sheep hunt up on Timp this weekend. Just contact me in Hawn's if you're interested....I'm on the third bar stool from the end ;-)
 
Texhuntr58, SFW stands for Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife. The org. started here in UT I think a little over ten years ago. They've done a great job bringing the elk and sheep up to snuff here. Hope this helps, Steve
 
Tony...........why do I know so little about SFW but have a feeling I understand why you've left them?

After a year and multiple email contacts (all but one memo a one-way deal) with the head of SFW (forgot his name already, but a BS artist methinks) I'm STILL waiting for a response and gave up months ago. I offered to volunteer to help start up an initiative here in Calif (to return game management to our Fish and Game and get it out of the hands of the uneducated public via protectionist initiatives like prop 117). The pres of SFW told me that I was on the right track, and a bunch of patronage BS about my offering to help, and that he'd get back with me. Never heard from him again after multiple emails asking "whats up".

Methinks SFW isn't as interested in truly helping sportsmen as they say they are, least, they've ignored my offers to help really, really well and are doing nothing that I know of to help sportsmen out here.........including even communicating back with them. The heck with em, I'll go it alone....
 
Heck Tony, I want to hear why you left SFW and if it is for the same reasons that I have never joined. This forum is to voice our views and educate people. I really want to hear what you do not agree with in SFW. Send me an email if you do not want to put it hear.
I love your radio show and hope it always air's.
Best of luck to you! Alan
 
I do not know anything about SFW since I am not a resident of Utah, But I would not be surprised if it turns out that "big Money" and "Good old Boy Politics" may have reared it's ugly head and taken over what may have been a good thing in the past. I hope that my suspicions are wrong.

RELH
 
Tony,
Where did you go? Can you PM me your thoughts on why you left? I am really curious and want to know what you think.
I am a bowhunter and do not belong to any groups, but will join the UBA soon.
Thanks.
 
Well, I'm an SFW supporter and Salt Lake Chapter committee member and attend several banquets each year.

IMO, the SFW is the type of group that is going to make a difference. In the past, I've also helped the MDF as a local chapter committee person and I'll tell you, there's a big difference between these 2 organizations as I see it.

As far as the SFW, it's ran by a board of directors, several of which are members of this forum. These guys work their butts off to raise money that directly benefits every person who hunts in the state of Utah. And, they do it for free.

The guys who sit on the SFW board, and who ultimately make the decisions as to how the SFW is ran, are doing it because they love wildlife and want to do their part to preserve what we all enjoy.

I can assure you, they are not influenced by "Big Money", unless that big money is going to put more wildlife in our state. Then they do what is best for the sportsmen of Utah.

Instead of stirring crap about the organization, I encourage everyone to find out what it's all about first. Become a committee member for a year, and I can almost promise you will gain respect for those who work their butts off attending every committee meeting, put together successful banquets, and some who drive 3 hours to 5 hour board meetings every month, among much more.

Sorry for the long reply, I just hate to see an organization which benefits us all and that was built by volunteers, dragged through the dirt over a simple employment dispute.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Fishon,
How do you suppose we find out the truth? If we can't get it directly from the horse then we must assume that most of the rumors are true. These are the same rumors or just say facts why Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife will never receive any of mine or my family's support. They have never represented our best interests from the beginning! The interests that I'm referring to are the interests of the everyday average joe blow hunter. Most of the everyday average joe blow hunters were deer hunters first and still prefer to hunt deer more than any other game animal. My question for all is, over the past 10 years have you seen any improvements in our deer herd? I don't know about you all but seems to me to be getting worse and worse. Too many promises and no action. Also, I'm tired of all the excuses. All you hear is drought and habitat. Mismanagement is the only viable excuse. Proper management needs to take place during drought years as well as wet years. There will never be perfect ideal weather nor ever has been. Turning everyone loose no matter what is getting old! If it's not about the money then why is there still 97000+ deer tags? And why are thousands of dollars spent every year on conservation and governors tags? Give me a break. It's all about the money! If our deer herd was properly managed and deer rebounded to numbers like the 60's and 70's you can bet the governors tag wouldn't be worth very much. The deer herd is right where the people in power want it to be. So they can get the most bang! When demand exceeds the supply prices go up! Less big bucks brings more demand and money. If you want proof look at the difference between money spent between statewide elk and deer tags this year. SFW does not benefit us all in my opinion.
 
I disagree 30inchbucks.

I watched a couple months ago as the SFW took immediate action and aquired winter range in the Kamas, Utah area that within a couple years would have been a subdivision.
Don Peay has been to D.C. several times this year already, lobbying for the BLM to make policy changes that will improve winter range throuhout the state, probably even in the area you hunt.

The deer issue in Utah is a little larger than what a few diehard volunteers can tackle. But I must say, those volunteers are making a serious effort, rather than just sitting on the sideline complaining--hoping someone else will do it for them.

Even with the little experience I have with putting together banquets and such, it amazes me that out 97,000 deer hunters in the state of Utah, that only about 12,000 are members of either SFW or MDF.

Everyone wants to blame the DWR, even the SFW????, an organization with the same goals as most hunters in the state, for the low deer herd numbers.

To answer your questions;

1 - "If it's not about the money then why is there still 97000+ deer tags?"
There are 97,000 deer tags because that many people want to hunt and the DWR does need that money to remain.
That is where the organizations such as SFW are important. Political influence may someday split the DWR into non-game and game species divisions, meaning more of the money we spend on tags and licenses will go back into game that we hunt.
Political influence can also someday encourage a future governor to pull funds from general taxes to help pay for the DWR, rather than the burden being placed solely on the deer tags sales in the state.

2 - "And why are thousands of dollars spent every year on conservation and governors tags?"
Bottomline, the reason the deer tag sold for what it did is because of the SFW. MDF/RMEF got burned on the elk tag, selling it for far less than they bid. People with deep pockets have realized that SFW is on the right track, and they come out and show their support by paying big dollars for tags, even tags that aren't worth big dollars.
And, the money that deer tag raised this year, will go back into buying more winter range before it is developed.
I mean really, do you think these guys pay $82,000 for the statewide deer because of the giant deer they might kill? Heck, they have a better chance with a Sonora, eastern Colorado, or a good landowner tag somewhere for a fraction of the price. These guys not only buy the tag so they can shoot a deer, but also because they know the money is going towards something that in the long run will make a difference.

I'm a bit long winded today, but for good reason. I hate hearing people complain about the mule deer situation throughout the west, but then they themselves are doing nothing to help.
The guys that donate their time raising money, and even those who pay $82,000 for a deer tag in Utah, are the ones making a difference. Sitting at home complaining won't change anything.

30inchbucks, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think you should someday meet with a few of the guys who sit on the SFW board. Most are hunters just like you or I. Their goal is not to make the DWR more money or to provide rich dudes with good tags, but to someday increase opportunity and quailty for themselves, their family and friends. When that happens, you too will be enjoying their efforts.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Anyone can bash another person or organization on the internet without having to back it up. The Anti anythings spew thier unfactual and illogical statements to the rest of the uninformed and soon a mass hysteria arises.

So lets put out some FACTS about SFW.

1- I met with Don Peay and 5 others in 1994 when he was trying to get his wildlife group off the ground. I thought he was an arrogant SOB and I left with all my $$$ still in my pocket. 4 years later I learned that it takes an arrogant SOB to get things done so I joined. I don't believe SFW is perfect, but it is better than many of the organizations out there.

2-SFW was the driving force to pass Prop 5 in Utah which makes it extremely difficult to pass "Emotion Based" wildlife laws through public initiatives. It wasn't MDF, RMEF, UBA, but SFW was the backbone.

3-Don Peay was at the fore front of the push to reduce - YES REDUCE - Utah's deer licenses from 250,000+ to a cap of 97,000. This was working for a while, but the WORST drought in 70 years has taken its toll on the deer not only in Utah, but Wyoming.

4-Elk herds, turkeys, and many other species have benefited from SFW's proactive actions. You wouldn't see bighorns on Timp without SFW. The deer herd in this area is growing because of the predator management- killing 60 cougars in a 12 mile long area. Yes the deer herd is down in UT, but so are NV, AZ, ID, WY - all states suffering from drought.

5-Now for Tony. Tony is a bit of a flake. He chases dogs down the street with his gun, in his underwear, in a subdivision. While at Parks Sportsman as a manager, before SFW, he led a charge filled with lies to put down the Primative weapons recommendations to the Central RAC. He has done some great things, but he has his own agenda. He has said many times the strives to be bigger than Don Peay, Doug Miller, etc. This is just another step on his road.

6-SFW finacial positions are closed to its members and the public. I think that is would be advantageous to all invovled if these records were opened to show salaries and just where the monies go.

7-The last fact is I am nothing more than a lowly member of SFW. I hold no position. I feel SFW has gone the direction on some things, but the uniformed bashing will always be there. SFW overall has done more for the average hunter in Utah than any of the other major conservation groups.
 
Brian;

You did a very good job of stating your opinion and I for one would listen to what you would say on the subject. Just about every point you brought up is solid and valid. If I lived in Utah, or even hunted Utah, I would give strong consideration into looking into SFW as a possible member.
I hope your locals will look into it and seeing if it could be the vessel for improving the hunting in Utah.

Good luck;
RELH
 
I disagree with you Founder,
Thats a pretty big accusation about me not doing a thing and just sitting at home doing nothing when you don't even know who your talking to. How do you know I'm doing nothing? SFW have been working on the habitat now for 10+ years and my question is Where is the improvement in our deer numbers? There isn't any improvement. More drastic measures need to be taken and I'm not going to sit here and explain it all over again. You go ahead and keep supporting an organization that doesn't represent us at all. That's why there is only 12,000 members statewide because they don't represent us and they have failed to accomplish what they said they were going to do. Deer numbers still suck after 10+ years. If drastic measures and proper management was put in place 10 years ago like it was suppose to be our deer numbers would be up drought or no drought. Buying up ground for winter range is great but if there are no deer to utilize it who really cares! There is plenty of winter ground that I know of throughout the state that used to have thousands of deer utilizing it and today your lucky to see one deer. I'll tell you what I'm tired of, is guys like you continueing to tell us how great you all are and all the things that your doing to improve are deer herd when in reality it's worse than when you first started. You mentioned someday you want increased opportunity and quality for yourselves. I'll repeat SOMEDAY. That someday is long over due. 10+ years of pruning trees on winter grounds surely isn't bringing our deer back. I know because I've been suckered into pruning the trees over the last 10 years with alot of false hopes. If the only answer we have is habitat then the deer are in deep trouble because that alone is not going to bring them back.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-04 AT 03:01PM (MST)[p]AMEN, 30inchbucks!!! You couldn't have said it better. The deer herd relys on their habitat now.

WIDOW_MAKER
 
I wish we had the SFW here in NM. At least the sportsmen would have a voice. As it is, we're at the mercy of the ranchers and the environmentalists. Not because there are more of them, but because they are organized.
30inch, explain to me how deer numbers are supposed to increase during a drought, when the land can't support that many deer. I'm not saying that to argue. I'm just asking if the deer range is in good enough condition to support a bigger deer herd. I know it's not here in NM. It's not just how much habitat they have, it's the quality of the habitat. The range cannot support more deer than it has grass and water.
 
nmtaxi,

You do have SFW in New Mexico!!!! Chapters were started last year. There is also SFW in Idaho and Wyoming, and soon in other states.
Checkout www.sfwsfh.org.

IMO, they really are making a difference. No matter what I or anyone else says, people just need to get involved and find out for themselves with hands-on experience. Don't take my word or anyone elses. Find out for yourself.
As an SFW committee member, I can tell you, there's a lot to be learned about the entire process. There's no simple solution like just cutting deer tags to 30 or 40,000. Just too much involved. So they deal with it the best way possible.

I personally back SFW because politics is where real changes are going to be made. The winter range in Utah is in the worst shape its ever been, BLM biologists have proven this.
Political leaders have the power to get BLM managers, among others, on the side of sportsmen and cut through all the red tape and work the land a little better. Fire suppression is one example.

The anti's have been in the political game for a while, sportsmen are just now beginning to realize that we need to be there too. And that's what SFW is all about. Plus, SFW still funds small projects just as the other groups do, and buys land that is on the verge of becoming another tall-dollar housing development.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
I think this can be a good thread to educate people about SFW/outdoor issues. One thing that I think most people are frustrated with is seeing the people with big dollars get to hunt whatever and whenever they want. One question I have is why not have another draw or raffle. If the "Governer's Tag" went for $82,000, why not try to get 20,000 of the 97,000 to go $5 and there you go $82,000 and a little for administration and all anyone needs for a shot is $5? Just a thought
 
30inchbucks,

I wasn't saying that YOU, specifically, sit around while others try to make a difference. I don't know if you do or not. The way you talk, I hope you don't. But, I can promise you, there are many out there that do just that.
My point is, guys who spend countless hours each year volunteerig their time are insulted when people who do nothing complain.

In response to; "I'll tell you what I'm tired of, is guys like you continueing to tell us how great you all are and all the things that your doing to improve are deer herd when in reality it's worse than when you first started."

I can assure you, I'm NOT telling you how great I am. I do little compared to many.
I am, however, telling you how great those guys and gals who work their butts off for free for the sportsmen of Utah are. And they are the ones I hope everyone appreciates.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
3DaughterMan,

We do that. Utah has a Sportsman's Tag for several species and hunters can pay $5.00 to enter the drawing. Each year approx. 4,000 to 5,000 people apply. After costs the DWR probably nets $20,000 or so.

The auction tag raises more money, and organizations have a great deal of say in how that money is put to use.

If the DWR along with SFW, or any other organization, could raise $60,000+ putting the auction tag up for draw, I'm sure that's how it would be sold. I don't think there's any rule stating that it has to be auctioned, that's just what raises the most money.
The more money that goes back into the wildlife, the better.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
30" Founder won't say it so I will " WTF " have you personally done to help our mule deer herds these last 10 years ???? I know you pruned the trees, what else ? have you done anything of substance that has made a positive impact on our herds ? if not shut TF up.
My point is, its pretty easy to sit back & take pot shots at organizations, from your computer where you sit, why aren't you off your A and out there doing something right now, probably because is much easier to sit there & grip & moan as you find faults with the people that are actually doing something, because no matter what any organization does they are going to make mistakes & have certain members that offend & repel others, but unless your offering something better with actions, time & effort, all you offer is cynical rhetoric.
What you suffer from is class envy, "All those rich guys with there chuteplanes are getting all the big bucks while poor little blue collar worker here gets none" whaaa whaa.
 
BFE,
What's your MODUS OPERANDI? LOL!!!!!!
Guess what? 30 inch bucks has "big bucks"!
As A matter of fact; 30 inch bucks took one of the top bucks off my favorite deer unit. He took the old muley the old fashioned way. He hunted for him.
 
Very well said BFE and founder, I couldnt agree more. People like thirty inch and widow (which are probably brothers) or relatives of Tony's need to put their ambition where their mouths are! I think the botom line is Tony has P___s envy over Don, And by the sounds of it Don has a bigger one. So what i am saying is if any body can start an organization and fix the deer herds in Utah the first year they start it, back to 250 thousand plus deer, myself widow and twenty inch want to be on the board, but only after the deer herds are back to objective! Pull your heads out of your a__s get involved and find out for yourself. Dont just rely on the hesaid shesaid BS.

My two cents, Muleynuts
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-04 AT 08:25PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-04 AT 08:04?PM (MST)

Wow! Have you guys every heard of the old saying, "the truth hurts"? LOL LOL LOL Stop getting so defensive. LOL LOL LOL
Conch, if things keep going the way they are the old fashioned ways of hunting will be a thing of past. What a shame. It's too bad hunters like you and me are becoming a dying breed.
 
SFW is about politics. Too bad its got to be about dirty backroom deals and you scratch my back and I "ll scratch yours, when it comes to our public wildlife. Sad fact is thats how things get done in this world. I could relate a tale here that would take the holy shine off sfw but I wont because like them or not they get results, although often times at the expense of shall we say less fortunate sportsmen.Our local sportsmens org just finished building a first class water catchment . SFW bought the materials. The man in charge of the projects said SFW stepped up whenever asked. He didnt think much of the muledeer foundation. Ive been a member of both and am am a member of neither right now. I have a hard time excepting the way SFW raises money. I guess I'm just poor and jealous but last time I checked the wildlife is a public resource and everyone should have an equal opportunity.I know thats pretty simple minded in the real world of money, politics and power. I have thought of joining SFW again just for the simple fact that in Utah they are the org getting the most accomplished. I just cant decide if thier doing more damage in the long run than good. Just my opinion.
 
fin little,
I agree with alot of the things you said and very intelligently said. When SFW first organized I thought they were going to be the answer and represent our interests, but I too can't get over the way money is being raised. Obviously, power and say comes with numbers. The way it stands now our mule deer will never rebound. I'm tired of all the promises along with the excuses. We've been listening to it now for 10+years and the deer hunting just keeps getting worse and worse. As far as I'm concerned, there are no excuses. It's a plain and simple answer of mismanagement. All the habitat in the world isn't going to make much difference if there are no deer left to utilize it. I'm just a frustrated hunter that wants to see some results for a change. That's all.
 
Like it or not wildlife is more about polotics than anything else anymore. That is where SFW shines Dons has figured out how the system works and is triing to make it work for wildlife. You want the mule deer to rebound, then we better look at the politics back in DC Utah is something like 85% public land do you know who controls that it sure as heck isn't the DWR. Ya Utah can spend $650000 on coyote control money that the DWR got from the state legislature (I wonder who the lobbyist was who pushed that through?) but it wont do much good if we do not have some major statewide habitat improvements. Talk to any bioligist or land manager and the will tell you the habitat is not in good shape, some of it from drought some from neglect or fire supression. Go back throught the last century and see the patterns of fire ,grazing, chaining, reseeding and you will see that after most were stopped or cut back the deer started to decline. But the boom in the deer herd was in the 50-70s before "enviromentalists" stopped many of the programs that allowed the habitat muleys thrive in to flurish. If we are going to get those practices back into use by land agencys then it has to be with politics. All the heads of these departments are political appointees and they know who has a strong bark with the bite to back it up. So as I see it like him or not Don P. is doing what he and those on the SFW board believes need to be done.
I hope I made some sense here I have been with SFW from the start and will be with them to the end. They truly are looking for the formula to get the deer back, but there is no silver bullet.
Dave
PS as for Tony I wish him well but would hate to see him trash on an organization he put so much into.
 
I sure appreciate all the debate taking place regarding SFW. I can remember one time when I was told that sometimes you need to make lemonade out of lemons. I have been involved with several NPO's but can truly tell you that SFW, though it isn't perfect is one of the best things going for Sportsmen. I am sure that Environmental organizations are aroused, no elated to learn that one of their biggest and most effective foes has finally began to break apart. I hope that you will all think about that as you make your posts available on MM's. With that in mind, I don't want anyone to support SFW that doesn't believe in it's mission or it's goals & objectives. Now that Tony has made his decision to leave SFW, I wish him well. However, I hope that Sportsmen can continue to stay focused on the goal at hand. SFW is one of the few organizations that are political in their operation and have been effective in battling against those which wish to eliminate hunting, fishing, and trapping. It has been stated that SFW is not perfect. Which organization do you think can resolve the problem we face today; specifically, that of declining mule deer populations? The truth being told, SFW has been a State organization for most of the last ten years. Problems facing mule deer are not unique to Utah. Problems they face abound in all the Western States where mule deer exist. Who has been working hard on getting this very complicated issue resolved? Don Peay! Like or not doesn't matter. He has been meeting with Kathleen Clarke (Sp?) former director of the Utah Department of Natural Resources, currently Secretary of BLM. She told Don that what SFW has accomplished in Utah was truly awesome; however, one state would never be able to change the tempo in Washington D.C. Because of Don's visits to D.C. the BLM is now beginning to change the way operate. Some will welcome the "bump" which lay's ahead for SFW. I can guarantee you one thing though, we must not forget who our real enemies are and how they operate. They have kept Sportsmen from effectively organizing because we all tend to disagree. Don realized early on that in order to be effective, Sportsmen needed to be organized. We needed to have all ranks represented. Now some claim that SFW is only concerned about the wealthy. Brian, aka Founder, has mentioned one such incident where everyone has benefited from the efforts of a few. That is the way it has always been and I am sure that is the way it will continue. 10% will continue to do the work for the 90% that doesn't help. If you believe that SFW doesn't truly represent you then ask to attend one of their Board meetings.

I have been involved with SFW from its infancy. It has made some changes over time. One thing that I can tell you is that this organization belongs to its members. If you don't like what SFW is doing then do not support them. However, be realistic when you start blaming mule deer woes on this young organization. Mule deer didn't get into this situation over night and the problem isn't gettin any easier to resolve; however, SFW is in the fight right now. Furthermore, SFW has always been about results. Look at its track record and compare it with any other organization in its first 10 years of existence. I can assure you that if you want to reduce mule deer hunting in Utah SFW can reduce the number of permits. You must then ask who shall be able to hunt when the numbers are cut so drastically? Should the season be closed all together? You decide it's your organization. It is what YOU make it. Get involved. Be part of the 10% and who knows maybe one day that 10% could be 90% doing while only 10% ride on our coattails. Many people have mentioned Don's arrogance. I will tell you as I have told before, Don comes off being arrogant to some but what I see is confidence. Call at what you may Don is getting it done for all Sportsmen, even those which don't get into the fight. If you desire to be a part of SFW and it currently isn't operating in your state, I would encourage you to consider rolling up your sleeves and getting into the fight. After all, if Sportsmen don't fight to protect hunting, fishing, and trapping who will?

Once again, I do wish Tony, aka FISHON, the best of luck in his endeavors. I also hope that SFW and its members will stay focused on our collective goals and objectives.

SMOKESTICK, aka Bob Wharff, Executive Director, SFW WY.
 
Cutting to the chase........the only thing that improves wildlife numbers is improved habitat and balancing the predator/prey numbers. It's that simple. If the primary focus of the SFW is that, then I'm all for them. If it's anything otherwise, I wouldn't have a thing to do with em and suggest the same for all my MM bros.....

P.S. Just one question; how the heck do you unsubscribe to a thread cause I'm sure sorry I subscribed to this one.........
 
WOW!!!

All i did is inform the public that i was leaving sfw because i no longer believed they represented me and now i have p____s envy. I have not aired any dirty laundry on this site yet i am being accussed of doing so. All i am going to say is that in my opinion sfw is not what it appears to be. i believe it is headed in a bad direction. noone has been closer to sfw and its dealings the last 4 years then myself, so my opinion is based on 1st hand experience.

I helped bring many of you aboard sfw, now I am just telling you to be careful, find out for yourselves the truths and the lies and then make your own choices.

I do not want to be don peay or the govenor, i want to be able to hunt and fish with my kids for lots of years to come. I was diligent when i worked with sfw and now i will be diligent doing other things.

I always said "if you dont like the way things are getting done then quit your job and do it yourself". Well i have quit my job and now i am going to go about things a different way. I will put my money where my mouth is.

Thankyou to all who helped me while I was with sfw, and thankyou to all who listen to my radio show.
As always I wish everyone the best in there choices in life.

yours in wildlife

tony abbott
 
Fishon,

Could you, would you, tell me the truths and lies? I was wanting to join an organization and want to know the facts before donating my time and money to any one individual group. If I need to be informed, then let me know from the inside what I am getting into.

ktc
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-04 AT 11:25AM (MST)[p]I do agree habitat is important and I do believe that the drought has had a direct effect on fawn production and survival. But don't you think the 97,000+ tags should be adjusted according to the conditions. I haven't killed a deer on a general unit in the state of Utah since 1996. I keep passing on every little buck in hopes of it growing up. Instead it just runs over the next hill to get shot by someone else. If habitat is the thing then I guess I'll start shooting everything in sight and as long as we are focused on the habitat everything will be just fine, right? I'll say it again that 10+ years of focusing on habitat is not working. Rain and snow is the only thing that will bring back the habitat and I think the last time I checked it was totally out of our control!!! You guys have any huge sprinkler systems? Maybe if we buy alot of dry ice we can create some rain. LOL! How about focusing on more things we can control like for instance TAG NUMBERS!!!! I know it hurts you to think you couldn't go out and kill that 2-point every year but sacrafices need to be made to bring the deer back. Another thing, don't come back with development and predators because I already know that they are a problem in certain areas. The Northern part of the State is mainly effected by the development but most of the State is rural country which is effected very little. Predators are a problem and I've killed my share of them, but the major predator has been MAN so get over yourselves and make the sacrafice. You're not going to be able to hunt and kill every year if the deer are going to rebound. Micromanagement and a draw is the answer whether everyone likes it or not. Don't get me wrong because I will continue pruning trees and shooting heck out of the coyotes because every little bit helps. But if drastic measures aren't taken soon we will never see our deer rebound in this great State. I also want to be able to hunt and fish with my kids for many years to come if there is anything left.
 
Tony, you know what's best for you. You've always pursued goals & interests hellbent. Nevermind the naysayers, good luck with the show & whatever your future brings.

PS - Ryan told me you guys tried to call & get my grandpa on the show after his elk hunt last year. Sorry I missed you, it was an incredible hunt.

Clint
 
freedivr2
It's not that simple . How about cutting that 97,000 tag number to about 9,700 ? Right now everything with a spike antler and milk on the chin is being slaughtered on opening morning in the general season .
 
HOLY ****!!! Fishon, did you really leave the SFW???

Just so you know, your post was the only thing that got me back over to sign up again on this website. My email was flooded with messages from people, "You gotta go to the MM site and see the post Fishon made."

I swore this site off last year when I posted some mule deer pictures and quickly realized that 98% of the people on this site are total morons that talk big about mule deer but wouldn't know a 22" willow horned 4 point if it jumped across the highway in front of their 2004 Powerstroke that has never seen a dirt road.

I have no intention of staying here but I had to come and respond to your post. Hell dude, you can't leave the SFW. You were the only one in that group that had any ounce of passion for what you were doing and any conviction in the group.

The rest of those guys are just vying for a spot on Karl Malone's butt to place their own lips. We all know who has the dubious distinction of having the first smooch.

I gotta tell you dude, while Kevin signed me up in the SFW as a joke I was actually considering renewing my dues. Not because of anything the group does cuz I think they are mostly idiots, but it's hard not to admire someone with your passion.

If me and Kev had half the passion for drinking that you do for wildlife, we'd be Ted Kennedy!! Hate to see you go and I hope things work out the best for you. That was kind of a bombshell you dropped dude.

I'm not going to get into heavy bashing on the SFW cuz I know they do a lot of good. For example, the SFW board in cooperation with the DWR Wildlife board has single handedly carried the Krispy Kreme donut shop in Orem the past two years.
I heard the Board would soon be inducted into the Krispy Kreme Hall of Fame in Atlanta for their "contributions to wildlife and rising profits in the donut industry."

I think that's admirable. And like the guys have said above and like the fearless leader has long maintained, "Wildlife is about politics these days." And we all know what politicians do don't we? They sit around pushing pencils, eating donuts, lying through their teeth to us and taking our money. If they did anything different than that, they wouldn't be politicians would they? ;-)

Anyway Tony, sorry to see you go and they won't be getting any of my money or vast estate, which includes a pack of hound dogs and a 1992 rusted out truck. :)

The SFW is great for the deer and elk hunters and mostly for the sheep guys and that is fine. But some of you would have us believe they represent all of the sportsman in Utah and that is simply untrue.

No amount of talk or hollow rhetoric can sway me because actions always speak louder than words and their actions have never represented me as a sportsman.

Best of luck in whatever you do Tony and while things may have got heated in the past over the deer and lion debate, I hope you never took any of that personally even when I did cross the line. I always admired your passion and fire no matter how misguided and wrong it was. ;-) :)

Best in everything buddy!!

-Dawg
PS. To the SFW gang, fight the good fight and keep paying those dues!! The Diety have some big hunts planned this fall with the Mailman and they need that money flowing in!! Pay up boys you think those Stone sheep hunts are cheap? Say, if I rejoin and pay my dues will I be allowed to stand in line at the next banquet and kiss Karl's new Laker championship ring? Hmmmm... tempting. ;-) ;-)
 
this is an e-mail i recieved from a highly respected sfw board member. I guess "you will know them by their fruits".



Tony-

Thanks for the email. I needed to hear the bitter rambling for myself to understand it better. Tony you are a self-centered hypocritical control freak that can't stand it when his huge ego doesn't get massaged. Tony you were hired by SFW to do a job and you sucked at it. SFW wasn't better because you were there, it is better despite you having been there. You were hired to deal with people, which I believe you are incapable of doing. You have to have everything your way or you pitch a fit like a small child. You are loud, obnoxious, abrasive and completely incapable of being any sort of a team player.
SFW is so much a better organization without you. You and your personality are and were a cancer to SFW and you know it. Just because things wouldn't go your way or a decision was made that you didn't agree with - you acted as though SFW had abandoned all principles. That is horse crap and you know it deep down. We all had to accept decsions that were made that we were outvoted on. That is what team players do. SFW is bigger than all of us, including you.
Step up and be a man. You have listed many wrongs committed by SFW and you state that this is why you have decided to be a quitter. Call a nigger a nigger. You are on a bitter crusade because you don't see eye to eye with others. Your lack of compromise and ability to be a team player has been rubbing your huge ego the wrong way and you couldn't take it anymore.
Now down to the all mistakes made by SFW and they are numerous. SFW needs reform and policy setting and change - AND IT WILL GET IT SOON!! Should we all jump ship and swim just because a great ship develops a small leak. Only the idiots jump. The rest of us fix the problem and sail on to bigger and better things.
Give up the pipe dream of replacing SFW because we both know that your personality will never be able to do it. Go to your radio show, let them massage your ego and leave SFW alone. Take care.

HOPE YOU CAN SWIM WELL MY FRIEND!!!


All the best,

xxxx xxxxxx
 
Fishon,
Wow! Thanks for sharing. Sounds like some quality individuals are leading that organization. LOL! Just re-emphasized the many reasons I haven't joined them.
 
Holy cow Fishon. Is that who I think it is? It sure as hell sounds like it.

Team player, step up and be a man, xxxx xxxxxx, do the x's match the name? It all sounds too familiar.

What is the reform he is eluding to? What is the change? If you left for all of the right reasons I applaud you. Nobody needs to be treated in the manner of that e-mail if it is in fact true.

I don't think I want to be a part of anything like that organization. My ego could never take that kind of insult.
 
WOWWWWWWWW!!!!!
Tony,
Love your show and keep up the good work. I hope some day to see the light with SFW for what it is or is not. Until then I will not join. Don't really know what I think, these post's are making me dizzy!
That email you received was way out of line!
Best of luck, Alan
 
Tony,

I might suggest you to follow the "letter (e-mail) writers advice. Go ahead and call a bigot a bigot, post their name. Oh yeah, I realize you are hoping to take the high road.

I don't post often it seems too often these forums get out of hand. I have been a part of SFW since the beginning and at this point still plan on being. However, this is the third time there has been a shake up of key players with some of them deciding SFW is not for them. Many of these guys are individuals I highly respect (Tony included). Each time I have asked hard questions, the past two times the issues have always been avoided and my questions have not been answered. I sat in a meeting last night with SFW's chairman of the board I asked those hard questions again. Many of the answers I received were on the opposite end of some information I am privy to. I imagine the truth lies in the middle or in the interpetation. I will follow up on the answers I received last night, this time it seems SFW is more open about policies and business from last nights conversation. We will see.
If you don't do anything else follow Tony's advice with any conservation organization and find out for yourself.
I can tell you this SFW has made a career on patting themselves on the back. Not always telling "the rest of the story" as it has been said SFW is about politics. I hope the story I heard last night is the whole enchilada.

Travis Sparks
 
You have to absolutely be kidding me!!! call a N-bomb a N-bomb
is this a sportsmans organization or the freaking KKK. Who the hell is running this ship with the small hole David Duke or some other racist halfbrain redneck. Sounds like this small hole is a little bigger than we have heard.

Tony if this is the kind of stuff going on you are far from a quitter you are what is known as a MAN. The rest of the SFW board would be damn well better off if they would address this issue now rather than let it grow. What a bunch of ignorant pieces of ##### saying things like this.

Tony I have NEVER agreed with you on anything.... UNTILL NOW
 
TONY- "Step up and be a man. You have listed many wrongs committed by SFW and you state that this is why you have decided to be a quitter." Let the cat out. Tell us what is so bad. This post is the perfect example of the BS spread on the net. Give names, facts, etc. Don't post anonymous BS with no names or facts to back it up.

And the "email" is right. You are an ego driven person. Good or Bad, that is what you are perceived.

The language in the "email" is poor and wrong, but that does not mean the whole organization is wrong. Look at the ### (pound) signs in some of the replys and I see a bunch of "Pots Calling the Kettle Black."
 
Sorry guys, but I'm locking this thread. It's already gotten out of hand. I'll be the first to admit, I'm disappointed that the email Tony received was sent by an SFW board member. However, it looks to be a personal email, not supported by SFW board.

But just as I'm disappointed by the email sent to Tony, I'm also disappointed to see him post it in this thread. This thread was started as an attempt to discredit SFW and all the hard work that many people have spent years doing---a slap in the face to those who put together banquets to help keep Tony employed.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinions, but I for one stand by SFW 100%. Good things are happening and I personally feel comfortable that the dollars I spend as a member or at a banquet are going towards a good cause.

Threads such as this do nothing more than hurt the sportsmen and the future of hunting. I don't mind a good debate, a sharing of personal feelings, etc., but when it comes this it's time to lock it up and move on.

I have always respected Tony and wish him well. Lets move on.
If anyone is interested in knowing all about SFW, then get involved. Committee doors are always open and help is always needed and appreciated. Don't take my word, Tony's, or anyone elses, but get involved for a year and form an opinion based on your own experience.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 

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