Proposed Access Agreement for the Boquillas Ranch

DonMartin

Very Active Member
Messages
2,078
Fellow Sportsmen:

I'm sure by now you may have heard about a proposed access agreement by the Arizona Game & Fish Department for the Boquillas Ranch.

This agreement, if it is signed by all the parties (AZ G&F Commission, Navajo Nation, Cholla Land & Cattle Co.) will define the way access is granted on this 750,000 acre ranch from now through 2015.

NOTE: AS OF THIS TIME THE DOCUMENT HAS NOT BEEN SIGNED! My understanding is that since this document was passed out at the Commission meeting on Saturday, there have been three revisions to it!

So there obviously have been some changes made in the document, but I don't know what they are.

This is what I wrote for our local newspaper about what I know about this story.

" I've said it many, many times before in past articles I've written in the Miner about sportsmen and the almost unfettered access they have enjoyed on the Boquillas Ranch. And I hate to point my finger at some of my friends and say, ?I told you so,? but guess what? It's finally looks like it is going to happen. It is like a tsunami on the horizon.

It's coming and it appears that barring some kind of major meltdown, there nothing much that can happen to stop it from changing the hunter access on the 750,000 acre Boquillas Ranch in Unit 10.

What is going to bring this change is outlined in a 13-page Department document entitled ?Cooperative Stewardship Agreement For Recreational Access.?

I had learned from various sources that for some time the department was actively working on an agreement with the Navajo Nation, who owns the almost 500,000 acres of privately deeded lands within the ranch boundaries. Discussions were also held with the Cholla Land and Cattle Company, which currently leases the ranch from the Navajo Nation and runs the livestock operation there.

But it wasn?t until I learned last week there was an item on the agenda for the G&F Commission on 1-11-2013 meeting which addressed a written proposal and a power point presentation to the Commission about this issue that the contents of the document became public knowledge.

As information on what had been presented became public, it was apparent that some sweeping changes were being proposed by G&F. I spoke with Region 3 Supervisor Tom Findley at the G&F awards banquet last Saturday night and requested a meeting with him on Monday to go over the document.

Subsequently I met with Findley and was given a copy of the document. As I read through it I have to admit I was shocked at what I was reading, and had many questions for Findley.

Our over two hour conversation was cordial and pleasant and the long time departmental employee was very open and honest when it came to answering the questions I asked.

Findley told me a lot of history about the access issues on the Boquillas Ranch, some of which I did not know.

For instance did you know that there has not been a signed access agreement between the Navajo Nation and the Department regarding sportsman?s access on the ranch for many years?

?Each year we just kind of held our breath and hoped that things would stay the same,? Findley said.

Findley pointed out that the department had conducted projects in years past on the Boquillas to help mitigate issues caused by wildlife and/or sportsmen.

There was the grading of some ranch roads using department equipment, funding for cleaning out stock tanks, habitat improvement projects, placing informational signs on ranch access points, and patrolling of the vast ranch during hunts by officers. There was also a sign in/sign out system put in place to see who was utilizing the ranch.

And let's not forget how the Mohave Sportsman Club held an annual ranch cleanup up out there for 21 years!

But despite all of that, it finally came to the point where the Navajo Nation said they were going to close down the ranch.

Findley said, ?I got a call last fall from an official with the Navajo Nation and was told that the tribe intended to close down the ranch to hunters effective January 1, 2013.? Findley noted that as private landowners the ranch can control access and does have the authority to close the ranch down if they wanted.

But the call came with an offer for G&F to meet with tribal officials and the Cholla Land & Cattle company and once more try and write up an agreement that would continue to allow sportsman access on the ranch.

Findley said he was given the assignment by G&F Director Larry Voyles and Deputy Director Gary Hovatter to write up the proposal.

?It has been a challenge for sure,? Findley said. ?I feel like I have a big bull?s-eye on my chest.?

Findley stated several times that sportsmen need to understand that the document has not been signed by all the parties, that it is actually going through a third revision.

And Findley noted that the bottom line was that the Navajo Nation could legally at any time, close the ranch to hunter access. ?They are already empowered to do what they want, as far as access on their private property is concerned.?

Despite all those admonitions I think it is going to be a done deal. My take on this is that it is not if this agreement will be signed, it is only when.

So let me get right to point and list some of the things that may be of interest to you as a sportsman who want to hunt on the Boquillas.

Remember, this information is off the draft that was presented to the Commission. And as Findley noted, there are other revisions that already have been made. So some of these actions may be subject to change.

First of all the ranch is going to start charging what is called a Recreational Impact Fee. That fee will be $60 for a recreational user over 18 years of age. The fee for guides is $200. I should note here that these permits are for each hunt. So if a sportsman has drawn two big game tags and wants to hunt on the Boquillas both times, they will have to pay for TWO separate RIF fees.

Also anyone who helps or assists on big game hunts will also have to pay the $60 RIF fee. There are a number of exceptions especially when it comes to youth hunts, and disabled hunters.

There are currently listed 26 ranch rules. I don't have enough room to list them all.

Here are a few. The ranch will not be open year around. Rule 5 of the 2013 Ranch Rules state: ?Access by Recreational Users to the Big Boquillas Ranch will open 10 days prior to the archery-only pronghorn hunt opening date (late August) . Access before that date is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch, unless otherwise expressly authorized in writing by the Lessee.?

Under Rule 6, ?Access by Recreational Users to the Big Boquillas Ranch will close 5 days after the conclusion of the December antlerless elk hunt. Access after that date is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch, unless otherwise expressly authorized in writing by the Lessee.?

That means no January archery deer or javelina hunts. There will be no general javelina hunts in February, or spring turkey hunts on the ranch. The ranch will not be open for prairie dog hunting in the summer until mid August. Organized predator hunts may be allowed on a case by case basis.

Here are just a few of the other ranch rules that may be in force this year.

Under Rule 14. ?The use of trail cameras, scouting cameras or any other automated remote device camera systems is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.

Rule 15 states, ?The construction of or use of blinds or tree stands (commercial or otherwise) is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.

Rule 16 states, ?Hunting within 100 yards of a water source is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.

Other proposed rules state that, ?The use of any substance to attract wildlife (baiting) is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch. (rule 20)

?All spotlighting is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.? (rule 25)

Now many may feel that these rules are unreasonable. But think of what the alternatives are.

One is the Boquillas ranch could be completely shut down to all sportsman access.

The other option, which may be called ?elitist? is what is going on the ORO Ranch right now. In that situation you must call the Outfitter (Chad Smith) who controls access to the ranch, and you must pay fees according to what you have a tag for.

And those fees are not chump change, especially for elk. I was told that fees from $8-10 thousand dollars for elk seem to be the going rate there.

Same thing also happens closer to Kingman on the X Bar One Ranch in Unit 18A. Again you have to contact the ranch owners and pay fees, depending on what tag you have drawn.

At this point there are many, many more questions that are going to have to be answered for sportsmen who I feel aren't going to particularly embrace this proposal. In the end I bet after all the whining and griping by sportsmen, they'll pay the fees and continue to hunt out there.

I've suggested to Findley that some kind of public outreach should be done to let sportsmen know why this has all been proposed.

Times have changed and so has the rules for access on large blocks of private lands.

Wildlife and sportsmen no doubt cause an increase in ranch operations. The Cholla Land and Cattle company says they spend $500,000 annually for maintenance on the Boquillas. However there is no way that all of that can be attributed to wildlife and/or sportsmen.

But it may be reasonable that a private landowner can obtain some compensation?and I don't mean landowner tags?for allowing access on their lands.

Right now, sportsmen from all over the nation are applying for antelope and elk tags in Arizona. There are almost 2,500 elk tags proposed for Unit 10, and 145 antelope tags.

Know that if you apply for any of those tags and draw them, there is a very good chance that at least some and maybe all of the rules outlined here are going to apply.

If you want a copy of the original document, it is a public record and Region 3 should provide it for you.

If you have concerns, questions, or suggestions, contact Findley at his department e-mail address of [email protected] "

Well there you have it. I'm not saying if this is good or bad. I do know that shutting it down will cause a lot of issues with tag revenues for the Department and will cause a lot of grief to sportsmen who have already applied for antelope or elk tags in Unit 10. And it will cause issues for the Cholla folks as left unchecked, the elk population will absolutely explode. I do know that the Cholla folks do want elk hunters there.

Each and every one of us will have to make a decision if we think this is a good or bad idea and if we want to continue to hunt on the Boquillas. If we do, then we'll be paying fees and abiding by the agreed upon ranch rules.

Then there is the question about what may be a be the trickle down effect for other AZ landowners who might want to implement the same or similar "deal" with the Department.

And what about the State Trust Lands (250,000 acres) that are mostly surrounded by the almost 500,000 acres of private land?

Like I said many, many questions will need to be answered.

I do have the complete report on a pdf file. If you would like it, send me an e-mail at [email protected] and I'll be glad to send it to you and can read it in its entirety for yourself.

I am putting this out here not to stir up a firestorm. It is here because I think the public has a right to know what is going on with this very important issue of access on the largest ranch in northwest Arizona.



Don Martin

5369boquillas_ranch_cleanup_june_2012.jpg

Will this have been the last Mohave Sportsman Club sponsored ranch clean up?
 
It would be good for deer herd but I feel sorry for those Elk hunters if this goes through...

quest
 
Hey I just learned that I made a major mistake in that article/report. Mr. Finley's last name is spelled FINLEY, NOT FINDLEY as I had written!

So if you want to contact him his email is [email protected]

Sorry about that Tom and thanks Zen for letting me know.

Don Martin
 
Not allowing predator hunting from mid December to August will absolutely decimate the pronghorn fawn recruitment. It won't take long to see a drastic decrease in the pronghorn population.

If this agreement stands as is....predators will explode! I hope they address this issue not for hunters and sportsmen, but for the pronghorn. They need all the help they can get!
 
With all the problems from all the hunters harrassing each other and fighting, and the elitist guides who think they own the water, it was bound to happen. Unit 10 was slowly becoming an overrated has been unit, and for some this will be the final straw. But the guides should be happy, now there wont be as much competition.
 
>Not allowing predator hunting from mid
>December to August will absolutely
>decimate the pronghorn fawn recruitment.
>It won't take long to
>see a drastic decrease in
>the pronghorn population.
>
>If this agreement stands as is....predators
>will explode! I hope they
>address this issue not for
>hunters and sportsmen, but for
>the pronghorn. They need all
>the help they can get!
>
they actually wrote in approval of funding to continue the current predator control (hired gunning) and will allow approved coyote contests
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-13 AT 02:08PM (MST)[p]Under Rule 14. ?The use of trail cameras, scouting cameras or any other automated remote device camera systems is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.

Rule 15 states, ?The construction of or use of blinds or tree stands (commercial or otherwise) is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.

Rule 16 states, ?Hunting within 100 yards of a water source is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.

Other proposed rules state that, ?The use of any substance to attract wildlife (baiting) is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch. (rule 20)

?All spotlighting is prohibited on the Big Boquillas Ranch.? (rule 25)



Not sure how any of these "Rules" are bad for hunters, seems like more fair chase.
 
I probably should let bow hunters address this issue, but with no blinds and you can't sit water, got to believe that will really make bow hunting elk a tough way to go in September.

As I understand this rule, this means you can't even put two logs that are there naturally together to hide behind.

I assume that your belief is that since all blinds and tree stands are against the fair chase standard, that all of those folks that use them, especially back East, that use blinds over scrapes, trails or water are not practicing Fair Chase?

Now that will open up a can of worms for sure..

But if that is your opinion, OK, you sure have a right to state it.

ON that subject however, I will respectfully disagree with you. Being in a blind or tree stand IMO does NOT violate fair chase.

Not even the AZ G&F has anything in their regulations to prohibit blinds or tree stands. But I know that that only speaks to legal issues, not ethical issues.

Spot lighting, baiting rules I'm with you on..

Don Martin

"Ethics, what you do when no one is watching."

Three tests of an ethical decision.
1. Is it legal?
2. Is it safe
3. Would you be willing to tell your best friend what you did?

If your answer is no to any of those three questions, then it is a no go.
 
Don,

I've not experienced this, but I've heard of hunters fighting and arguing over water holes in AZ.

While I agree with you that sitting in a blind or near water is certainly not against fair chase...when two adults cant act like adults, maybe there-in lies the problem?

Maybe the ranch doesnt want to have to deal with the whining and complaining associated with who is entitled to what waterhole and when...

I dont know...just guessing.
 
I bet that these rules will result in a better herd and some bigger bulls over time.
Its interesting to see how the record book entries for bull elk have declined in Arizona and Utah over the last decade or so,
I believe that is mostly from intense hightec hunting pressure and its happened despite having quite restrictive hunt quotas.
The human predator is quickly becoming too effective and limiting hunter numbers more and more has its downside, I say its too bad some of these restrictions cant be implemented on public land
 
Don you are putting words in my mouth nowhere in my post do I say that all folks that use gorund blinds and tree stands are not practicing fair chase.

In forums such as these it is difficult to convey exactly what one is thinking or elaborating with specific information without going into long dissertations but it looks like I need to.

I would like to make it perfectly clear that I have more respect for bow hunters than any other type of hunter I have bow hunted but find that to get myself to a level to make what I think are clean ethical shots it takes too much of my time. Someday I hope to be a big participant in the bow hunting world. I believe with few exceptions every bow taken animal is a trophy.

What I said was that these rules "seems like more fair chase", indicating that there is a level of fair chase involved only improving or making more of it. What we all believe as "Fair Chase" or "ethical" are up to the individual hunter. I know that because I am mainly a rifle hunter that some may not consider that fair chase I am okay with that. Let me throw a couple of scenarios at you and see how you answer them. I beleive hunting is so complex and every situation different that it is diificult to "paint" certain situations every time with the same brush.

You state that if it is "legal" then it is ethical if it is not legal then it is unethical. Montana does not allow game cameras during their hunting seasons but Arizona does. If I were to hunt Montana on a Monday without game cams and Arizona on Wednesday should I use game cams in Az? By crossing state boundaries and performing the same activity a person could be ethical at one moment but unethical the next? I believe the "legal" part of your Ethics Tenets is more about law abiding and has nothing to do with ethics.

One more. I have a cow tag in my pocket for a herd that is over objective and making ranchers lives miserable. I find a herd of elk, do my best to close the distance to less than 150 yards, and have a dead solid rest. The cow has a back stop, is not spooked, and has others with her. I do everything in my power to squeeze off a good shot, after the shot nothing happens so I shoot again the cow drops. I am happy at what appears to be a quick, clean, humane kill. I walk up to the dying animal and discover a blood trail moving away from this location. I follow it and find another female elk not mortally wounded but in mind too damaged to make it more than several days. It will be against the law for me to shoot two elk therefore it is unethical in your mind to kill the second elk and call the Game Warden. This is where I disagree I will shoot the second elk against the law and deal with the consequences. We may not agree and that is okay but too much of hunting is not black and white.
 
Cosmo8:

First of all, I can only address what can legally occur in Arizona.

Everyone's code of ethics are different. We teach that in Hunter Education. We all have our own code of ethics that we follow, but I think generally if you follow those three tenets I listed when making a decision, then your decisions will be good.

So as to the questions you pose. In AZ it is currently legal to use game cameras. So if you are in AZ, you can use them. I will also say this. Using a trail camera does not "Guarantee" that you are going to take game.

For me personally, it only tells me what is in the area and what the water patterns are.

Again my personal code of ethics meets all three tests!

1. It is legal to use a trail camera in AZ? Yes it is.
2. Is it safe to use them? Yes it is.
3. Would I tell me best friend what I am doing? Yes I would.

In question 2 this one is easy.

You did not purposely shoot two elk. The first one, assuming it is there you can tag, BUT YOU CANNOT LEGALLY SHOOT THAT SECOND COW! You must go and advise the department and let them make the decision on the second animal. Sure it may be hard to do to NOT dispatch that second animal for humane reasons, but under AZ law you cannot do that! (Laws are not always a one size fits all deal)

Therefore in this case ask yourself the three questions.

1. Is it legal? No it is not, so you cannot proceed with any further action other than call the law enforcement authorities and report what happened.

Since it is not legal (in AZ), you don't have the option to go to the second and third options.

Look I have no desire to get into an argument about what is and what isn't fair chase. You have an opinion, which I respect, and I have mine.

My personal code of ethics says that using a blind isn't a violation of fair chase. Neither is watching a water.

But that being said that is just my code of ethics and I won't pretend to force them on you or someone else.

I made my comments based on that three pronged rule and your post that at least seem in indicate that you felt the rules in question were based up Fair Chase.

I sure didn't mean to insult or demean you or your opinion. I just wanted to explain my opinion as to why I felt that using blinds or hunting at water is in my opinion, NOT a violation of fair chase.

But if I did, I apologize.

It is as you said in your last sentence. "We may not agree and that is OK but too much hunting is not black and white."

On that note, again I agree with you.

Don Martin
 
Gonna be tough to bowhunt pronghorn on the Bo without being able to sit waters, especially with only the 10 days preceeding the hunt to scout and pattern buck movements, all of which will have to be done during daylight hours while spying from afar with glass.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-13 AT 04:52AM (MST)[p]You know Jim is right. There are no provisions for shed hunting OR small game hunting that I see under those posted rules for access. You have to be either (1) a tag holder (hunter,) or (2) be attached to someone who has a BIG game tag in order to be on the ranch! And just because the ranch opens in mid August for the archery antelope, you can only be there 10 days prior to the hunt you are associated with!

At least that is how I read it.

Guess we'll find out when the agreement with the final language comes out exactly what can and cannot be done.

Don
Martin
 
I guess I missed that only permit holders, and people with them could access the ranch. I guessed that the ranch would be open to all at that time, and not just the permit holders and helpers. If I lived closer, I would try to find someone with an archery Antelope permit,and go hunt sheds, while they were scouting. So if I drew an archery elk tag, when could I access the property? 10 days prior to the hunt?
 
While I may be wrong, check out the document and see how you read the provisions. I think Jim is absolutely right on this. I sure don't see anything in those rules that allow unfettered access.

It looks to me like it does not allow for anyone just to come up and camp, unless associated with a hunter. No being there just to take a leisurely drive through the ranch to shed hunt, wildlife watch, conduct wildlife photography, etc.

Pretty straight forward I think.

Again, who knows what the final language will be. I sure don't. Guess when G&F crosses and the T's and dots the i the we will know.

This is such a HUGE proposal with so many "What if's" that aren't really spelled out so far.

Might be tough for ranch people and G&F alike to interpret.

To answer your question, yes if you drew an archery elk tag, you can access the ranch 10 days PRIOR to your hunt, through the hunt. So if the hunt is 14 days long, you could in theory spend 24 days in a row up there.

At least that is how I read it.

Suggest any questions about these questions be sent directly to [email protected]

Don Martin
 
Don,

Not to be a pain...but what if a guy kills an elk on the last evening of the 14 day season and needs another day to pack it out, pull camp, etc.?

Legal or not?

There are lots of things that need to be considered.
 
Buzz:

Not sure, that is one of those "What if" scenarios that are bound to come up.

That's question that only G&F and the Wildlife guy for the Boquillas Ranch will have to answer.

My thoughts are I would call the G&F Wildlife Manager for Unit 10, (Ben Selby) and tell him what had happened. Ben is a great guy and I'm sure he would be glad to assist in resolving that situation.

Don Martin
 
Don, thanks for bringing this news to all of our attention. I know you stay on top of the issues in NW AZ. I also know you knew this was bound to happen.

Honestly, this is the way of the future! Hunters are being regulated and squeezed to death. We WONDER why the number of hunters are decreasing. It's pretty simple issue and I think ultimatly we will become all but extinct, unless you are willing to travel or have a boat load of money to pay for access. We can keep trying to get youth involved, but in reallity it's the COST that will kill us.

My gut feeling is that the ranch will eventually close it's doors completely, so people better get in while it's cheap! You will also see many others with checkerboarded & private property do this as well. The ranch in 19B just did it and Babbitts will eventually do it too. So, if you have max points for Unit 9 & 10 you should feel a sense of urgency.

The bottom line, hunters are at the BOTTOM of the food chain. Honestly, sub-divisions, private property access fees and more regulations on Public Lands will be the demise of us. G&F departments will continue to raise prices, because they have less tags to go round or they will create fees, such as the OHV. This will put more squeeze on hunters and intensify the trend.

I am sorry if I sound negative, but it's the damn truth. Many of us that were raised & live in Northern AZ have seen most of our precious hunting country disappear. I can't blame anyone entity or anyone group, I just think it's ignorant to believe it's going to get any better in future. It's not going to get better!

About 5 years ago I decided to start applying out of state, because I could see this crap coming. I am a DIY hunter, so I only apply for states near AZ, because I need a few days of scouting. I am not rich, in fact many of you would laugh at my tax returns, but I am telling you...if you like to hunt QUALITY animals, on quality hunts, you better start applying or buying points in multiple states! If you don't have the money or desire to travel, you are going to be left waiting decades for a quality permit.

I don't get on the forums too often, but I had to spill my guts when I saw this.

Best,

Craig Steele

http://OutdoorsmansResourceGuide.com
 
Craig,

It is understandable to feel negative about our position as hunters and firearms folks these days as it certainly does seem like we're the whipping boys for those who wish to restrict or end the outdoor activity we're all so passionate about.

That said, you can take heart in some recently released statistical data that shows hunter numbers are actually trending upward. Yes, our numbers are finally growing again! The fastest growing segment of the hunter population is women and youths so let's all keep introducing the gals and kids within our sphere of influence to the wonderful world of hunting, sport/recreational shooting, archery and bowhunting.

Your encouragement to apply in as many states as one can afford is spot on as well and one I practice. Good luck in the drawings this year!

Regards,
Jim Rich
 
FYI: I was advised today by Zen Mocarski @ G&F Region 3, that the status of the access proposal is the same, that it has NOT Been signed yet by all parties.

Don't know if that is good news or bad news though.

Don Martin
 
Jim,

I admire the work that has been done to increase the rate of hunters in AZ over the past few years. I know many of the members on the department program are working hard, but I have to be honest when I share my personal feelings. Again, I applaud the efforts and I am humbled by those who have spent countless hours working on hunter recruitment and retention.

I personally think access, regulations, and affordability are the 3 biggest hurdles to keep the hunter numbers on par with society. It would be dishonest of me to say I see any of those getting better in the long term for hunters. Again, this is just my opinion.

Best,
Craig Steele
 
I also have the letter, if anyone would like a copy. Mr. Pender has given me permission to share it with you.

It is insightful from a man who was the wildlife manager for Unit 10 and the Boquillas Ranch for over 30 years.

Don Martin
 
Excellent letter hope they listen to his points!



"I'm just a guy in front of a computer, wishing he was out hunting, living vicariously through the hunting stories of others." Mountainman99
 
I spoke with Tim Pender this afternoon thanking him for the telling it like it is with the Boquillas farce....one thing he encouraged me to do is write a letter to the AGFD disagreeing with their Pending Access Agreement and if nothing else table the proposal until all other options are considered ie: reasonably priced "Kaibab type of access stamp and get my hunting buddies to do the same....he seems to think this is the only way we can keep the AGFD from selling us out....

Just my 2 cents worth,

Jim Parker
 
AZGFD Press Release:
Feb. 8

Hunters should be aware that the Arizona Game and Fish Department is involved in ongoing negotiations with the landowner and lessee of the Big Boquillas Ranch that may impact hunters planning to hunt in Game Management Unit 10.

Located near Seligman, the Big Boquillas Ranch, one of the 25 largest ranches in the country, makes up more than half the huntable area in Unit 10.

The Big Boquillas is checker-boarded private and State Trust Land. While the Navajo Nation is the private landowner, Cholla Livestock LLC is the lessee. Game and Fish is working with them to find a solution that would help the ranch offset expensive maintenance of roads, gates, and other costs attributable to the impact of recreational activities and the cost of supporting wildlife conservation on the property while maintaining access for hunters.

Possible changes may include recreational impact fees required to access the ranch, decreased access points to the ranch and rules that need to be followed while on the ranch. Regardless of the final outcome of negotiations, hunters will continue to be able to access portions of Unit 10 outside of the Big Boquillas Ranch for recreational activities.

In addition to the private ranching enterprises on the Big Boquillas, the area provides critical habitat for big game and wildlife conservation efforts such as the Black-footed Ferret Reintroduction Project and annual raptor migration surveys.

Current efforts to maintain access on the ranch are focused on providing hunters a place to go and the ability to continue critical wildlife management efforts on this significant piece of property.



TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-13 AT 12:26PM (MST)[p]Am I missing something here? If the Navajo Nation owns this property and the cattle operation leases the land from them, why should the leasee have much say as to what the owner allows. It sounds like this is a money making scheme for the party that doesn't even own the property and the G&F needs to smarten up just like Mr. Pender states in his letter or this will lead to statewide ramifications. IMHO a bunch of users need to band together quickly to get something positive going before it's too late. His stamp suggestion sounds like a great idea to me if there has to be some kind of a monetary remuneration so that continued access to the ranch is allowed. Make it happen folks and don't just complain on websites. You did it when the tag grab was attempted and you can do it again in this matter if folks get together and work on a solution.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-13 AT 01:51PM (MST)[p]So please tell me what I'm missing. Why should the leasee try to control the ranch the way it appears is being mentioned? If they need help monetarily to do road maintainence, etc. I can understand that because they should not have to bear extra costs on their own if recreationists using it make it cost more for upkeep. However, I'm at a loss after reading the letter from Mr. Pender as to why all the other restrictions would be needed like not even allowing a popup blind!
 
If extra costs on the ranch are causing the ranch to restrict hunter access, I'm with the idea of having a reasonable extra fee to go with a unit 10 tag if you draw. If Unit 10 hunters are willing to spend a few extra dollars if they draw then both sides should be happy.

It's might be hard to set a dollar amount on what the ranch needs in order to maintain it to their expectations; but that's the dollar amount I feel they need to inform the hunters of in order to come up with ideas to help both sides out.

The thing I would hate to see is landowner tags come out of this. If landowner tags is what the ranch is slowly resorting to, then I hope game and fish steps in and ends any it in anyway possible.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-13 AT 08:27AM (MST)[p]>So please tell me what I'm
>missing. Why should the
>leasee try to control the
>ranch the way it appears
>is being mentioned?

Because the leasee, Cholla, is RENTING the PRIVATE DEEDED LAND under a long-term lease from the landlord, the Navajo tribe. It's no different than someone RENTING a house from an owner/landlord; the renter has every right to restrict who is allowed inside and under what conditions. The renter can mandate that visitors take off their shoes first to go inside if he so desires, and he certainly can regulate who camps in his backyard or uses his swimming pool.

Leasing the land itself is entirely different from how ranchers lease GRAZING rights on PUBLIC land. In this case, they pay a per head fee for those rights and the owner -- feds or state -- gets to dictate the conditions of those grazing rights.

Grazing rights are similar to paying an annual fee to play golf on a city-owned golf course; the golfer gets to do his thing, but the city regulates where, how and when. Now if someone rents/leases the entire course from the city, i.e. private management of city-owned land, the leasee gets to dictate all the conditions for golfers.


TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
Thanks Tony! I was thinking their lease with the Navajo Nation was similar to a grazing lease on public land where they would have no right to keep you off the property for anything that was legal.
 

Arizona Hunting Guides & Outfitters

SilverGrand Outfitters

Offering mule deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep, javelina, and turkey hunts in Nevada and Arizona.

Arizona Elk Outfitters

Offering the serious hunter a chance to hunt trophy animals in the great Southwest.

A3 Trophy Hunts

An Arizona Outfitter specializing in the harvest of World Class big game of all species.

Arizona Strip Guides

Highly experienced and highly dedicated team of hardworking professional Arizona Strip mule deer guides.

Urge 2 Hunt

THE premier hunts in Arizona for trophy elk, mule deer, couse deer and javelina.

Shadow Valley Outfitters

AZ Strip and Kaibab mule deer, big bulls during the rut, spot-n-stalk pronghorn and coues deer hunts.

Back
Top Bottom