Get the Fed's out of our State...

[Steve_Montana]

HELENA ? Montana lawmakers fired another shot in battles for states' rights as they supported letting some Montana gun owners and dealers skip reporting their transactions to the federal government.

Under House Bill 246, firearms made in Montana and used in Montana would be exempt from federal regulation. The same would be true for firearm accessories and ammunition made and sold in the state.

"What we need here is for Montana to be able to handle Montana's business and affairs,'' Republican Rep. Joel Boniek told fellow lawmakers Saturday. The wilderness guide from Livingston defeated Republican incumbent Bruce Malcolm in last spring's election.

Boniek's measure aims to circumvent federal authority over interstate commerce, which is the legal basis for most gun regulation in the United States. The bill potentially could release Montanans from both federal gun registration requirements and dealership licensing rules. Since the state has no background-check laws on its own books, the legislation also could free gun purchasers from that requirement.

"Firearms are inextricably linked to the history and culture of Montana, and I'd like to support that,'' Boniek said. "But I want to point out that the issue here is not about firearms. It's about state rights.''

The House voted 64-36 for the bill on Saturday. If it clears a final vote, the measure will go to the Senate.

House Republicans were joined by 14 Democrats in passing the measure.

"I would hope that our U.S. Supreme Court would begin to retreat from what I think is an abusive interpretation of our interstate commerce clause,'' said Rep. Deborah Kottel, a Democrat from Great Falls who supports the measure.

 

[ismith]

I hope it passes. Hopefully it would attract some gun and ammo manufactures to the state.

 

[TFinalshot]

Hum, sounds very interesting. If it becomes law, no doubt the federal courts will get a crack at it, my guess is that it would not even make it to the supreme court, the district courts would have their way with it first, and unless these guys have a better case then the one they cite, the supreme court would blast it bits. . . I'm not saying that I like that, i'm saying that's what would likely happen. . .

In any event, it's a good effort, i support it. . .

Tony

 

[Deadred7o7]

+1 TFinalshot







Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"

 

[D13er]

jeez I hate reading this stuff.....makes me feel even stupider for still being in California....



great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[Hardway]

>jeez I hate reading this stuff.....makes
>me feel even stupider for
>still being in California....

Hell ya +1, gonna have to make like a mexican and head north


"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[NeMont]

This is nothing personal but this state is not real welcoming to newly transplanted Californians. I know it is a generalization but you are viewed as 2nd class citizens and as part of the "problem". Just make sure if you move to get you license plates change as soon as possible.

Nemont

 

[Hardway]

I hear ya, it probably would'nt happen though since most of us just couldnt adjust from our beach livin always sunny lifestyle. You guys crack me up, I grew up at the end of 5 mile long dirt road and have farmed and raised cattle all my life, but not country enough for montana or any other northern state. Fair enough so. cal and san fran give us a bad rap, but most of ca is every bit the wilderness and same type of rural place that you guys call home. Only diff is we have become out numbered by the liberals who have invaded our state. I hear bozeman and helena are comin around though, so good luck with that.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[D13er]

>This is nothing personal but this
>state is not real welcoming
>to newly transplanted Californians.
>I know it is a
>generalization but you are viewed
>as 2nd class citizens and
>as part of the "problem".
> Just make sure if
>you move to get you
>license plates change as soon
>as possible.
>
>Nemont

when I show up there Nemont, they'll throw you out to make room for me....


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[piper]

The Problem is California has too many Lefty liberals and too many radical right wingers, the middle doesn't even have a voice, as far as geography goes its our greatest state, but its the late great state, as far as people go, its the state of fruitcakes and no trespassing signs.

 

[TFinalshot]

Dcup, you would have a hard time throwing yourself out of a wet paper sack. . . ;-)!

 

[D13er]

>Dcup, you would have a hard
>time throwing yourself out of
>a wet paper sack. .
>. ;-)!

uh huh, wait til I get there...



great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[Steve_Montana]

>I hear ya, it probably would'nt
>happen though since most of
>us just couldnt adjust from
>our beach livin always sunny
>lifestyle. You guys crack me
>up, I grew up at
>the end of 5 mile
>long dirt road and have
>farmed and raised cattle
>all my life, but not
>country enough for montana or
>any other northern state. Fair
>enough so. cal and san
>fran give us a bad
>rap, but most of ca
>is every bit the wilderness
>and same type of rural
>place that you guys call
>home. Only diff is we
>have become out numbered by
>the liberals who have invaded
>our state. I hear bozeman
>and helena are comin around
>though, so good luck with
>that.
>
>"A well regulated militia, being necessary
>to the security of a
>free state, the right of
>the people to keep and
>bear arms shall not be
>infringed."


The only thing Bozeman and Helena are coming around to is being more like California.

 

[Steve_Montana]

I heard tale that we are also trying to get a bill through the legislature to delist out of staters so that we can put in for special drawing to harvest them during controled seasons. Seems they are getting overly populated and starting to exceed their boundries marauding the locals.

Montana has assumed nearly all out of stater management duties, including monitoring programs and lethal control decisions. But the state has been restrained in significant ways by the ongoing protected status of out of staters.

Once the ?endangered? out of stater population in Northwest Montana is delisted, livestock owners will have the ability to harass and haze them away from their animals, and they will be able to shoot and kill the ones that are caught attacking livestock.

That flexibility is already allowed around the ?experimental? out of stater populations in the southern part of the state.

Most significantly, delisting will allow the state to manage them as a trophy game species and implement legal hunts for them.

 

[D13er]

Doesn't "winter kill" get most the Californians??

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[Deadred7o7]

D13 you know us Kali boys only go to MT form Sept. till Nov.



Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"

 

[RELH]

The reason for that short time in Montana, is not just hunting. After several months we want to get back to our beatiful CA. women. Since that is a commodity that is in short supply in Montana and the locals can keep their darn sheep.

RELH

 

[NeMont]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-09 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]
>when I show up there Nemont,
>they'll throw you out to
>make room for me....
>
>
>great post/pic, thanks for sharing
>
>JB
>

Think what you want D but thousands of your brethren have not be able dislodge me. I live in the part of Montana that nobody moves to unless they do a little research and still want to be extremely rural.

Hardway,
I understand what you are saying. Northern California is a different world from Southern California. The problem here is that we have no way to tell and enough of the Southern California attitudes has arrived that unfortunately you are all lumped together.

You are more then welcome to come on up but don't be like alot of your fellow Californians who get here and want to recreate where they just moved from.

Nemont

 

[RUM]

We get the same migration into Norcal. The last ten years the bay area libs have been swarming into my once little town and then keep trying to to turn it into the same POS city they left from

 

[Steve_Montana]

Hey... leave our beautiful sheep out of it.

That is the thing I don't get... they move here to escape where they came from and then work hard to turn it into where they came from.

I know of 2 Californians that headed back to SoCal this past fall. They say they will be back this summer... but I doubt it. They couldn't take the winters any longer... yet the past 8 years have been extremely mild.

Heck we are supposed to have a high of 47 today... that is a heat wave for February.

 

[Hardway]

You guys think a few so cals are bad? Try about 10 million wetbacks. They turn whole towns,parks, radio stations, EVERYTHING into a trash laden chit hole. Some parts of town look like picures of mexico, trash evrywhere....broke down vehicles, stray dogs, stray children, gangs, and poorly taken care of homes. Not to mention the strain on our state and local economies. But our bleeding heart libs wont deny em healthcare, and definatley wont send em back to mexico! You guys have no idea what bad is. Come visit for a week and se why most fo us wanna leave.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[D13er]

When I move up there can I bring my mexican gardener with me??


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[RUM]

Well good luck to Montana and I hope other states follow your lead. Even though it would never happen here in Cali, it would be great for the nation.

 

[Steve_Montana]

Who do you think picks our potatos up here?... we just send them back down south come winter.

Actually if you are on a forum like this... you would most likely fit in well here.

The thing that turns us off to Lib out of staters is the spotted owl... wolf lovers.

For example... I guided in the Bob Marshall wilderness a few years ago and the main reason it is accessable to hikers is because of the Outfitters who maintain the trail system. Now the hikers want horses band from the Bob because they POOP on the trails.

Also if you move up here and buy a piece of land that locals have been crossing to get to their favorite public land hunting spot for ions... DO NOT put a gate on it.

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-09 AT 02:11PM (MST)[p]"Now the hikers want horses band from the Bob because they POOP on the trails."

Worry not! The law will not be changed. The Organic Act that created the Bob was developed to insure that horses and humans on feet would be the only cross country travel, you can land a chopper and a plane in a few areas, but that's it - rafts are okay on the rivers too.

The truth of the matter is this, the people who created the Bob and those of us who will protect their legacy will NEVER let the trekkers take over the Bob. It's purpose was to have a place for packing. . . that will, as long as there are horses, not change.


"Also if you move up here and buy a piece of land that locals have been crossing to get to their favorite public land hunting spot for ions... DO NOT put a gate on it."


Sounds like youre trying to tell people what to do with private land. That's an Obama platform aint it?

 

[Steve_Montana]

No... we are real big in to private land rights here... I am just talking about how NOT to move to Montana an get the locals pissed off at you the day you arrive with the gate thing.

Just watched it happen. The guy allienated himself in the whole small community right off the bat.

Road had been there for 50+ years which lead to BLM land... he bought the ranch and through up a locked gate.

Locals tore it down and it went to court... land owner won but it cost him $50K to create a different access road on the other side of his property.

Now he has little friends.

 

[piper]

real big into private land rights up here, just don't tell us we can't go on your private land? strange thinking, similar to much rural thinking, mixed up, that thing about banning horses, its funny but Ive been hearing that same crap for more than twenty years, it usually comes from the rural antiwilderness folks. Oh and the spotted owl thing mostly came from ex forest chief and B and C club professer Jack Ward Thomas. One more thing if you want to give some of these rural folks heartburn and sleepless knights, just explain to them that public lands are a perfict example of socialism.

 

[Steve_Montana]

Well Obama was right about one thing... we backwards ass country folk have a strong "antipathy" towards snobby elitist that want to come in and change things to be like the cesspools they just left.

Yep... we cling to our guns and religion too.

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-09 AT 02:20PM (MST)[p]Hey Montana_Steve, I feel your frustration, I've been worried about it too all my life. If you feel that strongly about it why are you not down in helena (montana is in legislative session now) telling the republican party to stop trying to shut down public access to public waterways from public roads, while youre there maybe you can tell the republican party that you want to be able to hunt yours and mine public wildlife, like elk and deer in areas where they are horbored, or else the land owner wont have any right to complain about wildlife damage, or maybe while youre down there you can tell the republican party that you want more information or transparency when private oil and gas drillers access public lands for minerals, or plan do develop our open spaces and clear sky's, this means windmills too. If youre all about real montanans and all about "government get out of my life" why arent you in helena telling the republican party to stop pushing all these useless and mostly privatization related laws?

These are serious conflicts. Before there were so may people moving in to re-brand montana there was no need for more rules. I find it hard to understand how a guy can say "dont put up a sign telling me I cant cross cause I've crossed all my life, but then also says, yes, but it's my land. . ."

Again I'm sypathetic, I live here too. But it aint the way it was and it aint going back. As sad as that might sound, if you really want to stop it, you can start by telling the state to quit advertising "come to montana," tell the small towns and shops and taverns and diners to stop catering to out of state hunters, then, stop telling people how great the big sky country is, and stop selling land to people with more money than brains!

If we montanans would band together and say nope, we are not selling our ranch for $8 million dollars, none of this would be going on. But in order to do that you'd be taking away my private property rights. If you want to see the real nature of a man, ask him how much he'd sell a section for, or how much he'd sell his home place for, and then ask him how much he'd pay the neighbor for his place. . .

Making as much money as possible is at the root of most of it. I'm not against profits but if youre not willing to allow more government intervention the only other way to do it is to QUIT SELLING THE LAND TO PEOPLE WITH MORE MONEY THAN BRAINS, and you know that aint gona happen. . .

20 years ago i never worried about who was crossing the place to hunt or fish, today it's a different story, so which side are you on?

 

[Steve_Montana]

TFinalshot...

The start of the rant was not over frustration... but a chuckle over how out of staters come into Montana with their wacky self centered attitudes and alienate their neighbors real fast.

Thus... the locals have a preconcieved antipathy towards the next guy who wants to move in... sort of the one bad apple thing.

The road issue is not just denying land owners rights...

I have been Googling looking for information on Montana "right-a way" access that if it has been left unchallanged for a certain period of time... then it is similar to a comon law easement.

Situations arrise (like the one I just witnessed) where the two previous landowners never batted and eye for nearly 80 years of locals using the road crossing their property to access public land... they even opened their land to block management.

A guy from the northeast comes in and buys the property and slaps up a locked gate... i.e... suddenly pissing off all the sportsmen who used that road to get to the BLM land. There is another access 40 miles away but it is more of a trail than a road.

So it went to court to determine who owned the road.

He won the right to govern that particular road and lost at the same in that he had to pay for a road to be built across the corner of another piece of his property to access the BLM.

Not only did it cost $... it cost him friendship in the community and gave increased the locals antipathy towards the next guy who moves in.

Like you I hate to see these beautiful ranches butcherd up and sold off in pieces to wealthy elites.

But... when a rancher gets old and can no longer run his place... and his children didn't want to ranch for a lving... what is he to do.

 

[Steve_Montana]

... and by the way... I side with the landowner... I think he should have the right to who comes and goes on the road... if that means a locked gate... so be it.

I just think he went about it wrong.

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-09 AT 04:38PM (MST)[p]cool. I agree too. like I said, in some ways, we're asking for all this "trouble" by inviting all the people to come here. We cant have it all, there are trade offs.

Sounds like youre in the breaks and adjacent to or in the Monument.

In any event, I think it sucks the way this stuff has to be handled. I think a lot of this business has more to do with privatizing and profiting off our deer and elk and speculation by people who are in the business of making money from access to public resources. . . It's a darn shame. People are quickly buying up land that they can close off and also isolate public land so that they can either control access, and or make money off outfitting and leasing hunting rights. . .

Here's the current legislative issues as they relate to montana hunting and fishing and state laws. . . this all is active legislation. . .









Transmittal is next week, the day when all non-fiscal bills must be either
passed onto the other legislative chamber or die in Committee. SO, the
list of bills will diminish then, until that time, though, there are
several bills that demand our attention. Please keep your comments
respectful and pertinent to the facts of the bills in question.

House Bill 314, our Harboring Act was heard in the House FWP Committee
yesterday. HB 314 received a fair hearing but there were many comments on
both sides. The Committee now has the task of weighing the testimony.
PLEASE drop them a respectful email or a phone message thanking them for
the good hearing of HB 314 and request their consideration of any good
amendments to strengthen it then pass the bill out of committee for a
House floor vote. The main point to be made is that herd management isn't
possible without dealing with the obstructionist nature of harboring large
wildlife; denying that harboring exists doesn't resolve the challenges.

Senate Bill 402 EXTENDS THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE PAYMENT OF JUST
COMPENSATION TO REGULATORY TAKINGS. SB 402 extends what "items" can be
claimed in "takings" cases, fully going beyond reasonable expectations for
protection from government intervention. It is clearly an attempt to
overturn the Montana Supreme Court and District court decisions on game
farm cases and will be heard in Senate Judiciary tomorrow, February 19th.

Senate Bill 383 was requested by MWF and ATV Coalition members, Montana
Bowhunters, and Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. Hellgate Hunters and
Anglers has also been strong proponents of this bill to require reasonable
identification on off-road vehicles in the form of a full-size license
plate. While most ATV/ORV riders are responsible and law-abiding, there is
little to identify abusers afield. Too many incidents cannot be
investigated because no verifiable means to identify the vehicle or rider
is apparent; currently ATVs are only required to display a small sticker.
SB 383 will be heard in the Senate Highways and Transportation Committee
Thursday February 19 at 3PM. We need supportive emails and comments to
show the Committee members we're serious. The opposition from riding
groups is strong; no-one wants more regulation but this is needed.

Senate Bill 183 attempts to resolve wolf issues by voiding Montana's wolf
management cooperative agreement with the US Fish and Wildlife Service
claiming State's Rights have been violated then imposing "predator" status
for wolves. MWF has worked hard over the past years attempting to remove
wolves from the Endangered Species Act protection so hunting seasons can
be established to manage the state's wolf packs by FWP. SB 183 would
mirror Wyoming's unproductive "predator status" and will effectively
destroy any attempts to get the wolf delisted. MWF wants the wolf to be
delisted, this bill will not get it done! SB 183 is expected to draw a
large crowd in tomorrow's hearing in Senate Fish and Game Committee at 3PM
tomorrow, February 19, 2009.

Senate Bill 436 would create an outfitter sponsored guaranteed set-aside
license for antelope! Set aside licenses for elk and deer have already
proven to create exclusive leasing of lands that commercialize our public
wildlife; please write to the Senate F&G Committee asking them to reject
SB 436.

Please send them your emails or contact them through the legislative
message center, http://leg.mt.gov/css/sessions/61st/legwebmessage.asp or
by calling the Legislative hotline 406-444-4800 and they will relay your
messages.

 

[Steve_Montana]

TFinalshot... I live in Helena now.

I will look further into these.