Wyoming Range Mule Deer

Being a new organization I guess only time will tell!! Don’t know much about them yet but I sure hope there starting this for the right reasons!!
 
Well i can tell ya the first guy in the contact info is an outfitter i wouldnt be suprised if they all are. Not that has much to do with anything
 
Bookhead said:
Well i can tell ya the first guy in the contact info is an outfitter i wouldnt be suprised if they all are. Not that has much to do with anything
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As is number 2. Hope they do some good. We'll see. I'm just spit ballin here but Im betting they advocate for limited quota for res hunters in G.
 
mulecreek said:
As is number 2. Hope they do some good. We'll see. I'm just spit ballin here but Im betting they advocate for limited quota for res hunters in G.
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Makes since to protect your resources, so hopefully they will do some good!! And I bet your right about them pushing for LQ in G and H, then I see push for 90-10 on DEA for sure!!
 
Brad Carter here, would love to have you guys learn a bit more about the organization. It’s great to speculate, but would be preferred if rumors didn’t get started erroneously.

100% volunteer
Biggest concern is creating a voice for the hunter.
The outfitters involved in this are not in favor of LQ
Our board consists of 5 members, only one can be a guide or outfitter.

Follow along by signing up for our newsletter. We’ll be publishing a bunch of info about the structure and goals of the organization.
 
wymoose said:
Brad Carter here, would love to have you guys learn a bit more about the organization. It’s great to speculate, but would be preferred if rumors didn’t get started erroneously.

100% volunteer
Biggest concern is creating a voice for the hunter.
The outfitters involved in this are not in favor of LQ
Our board consists of 5 members, only one can be a guide or outfitter.

Follow along by signing up for our newsletter. We’ll be publishing a bunch of info about the structure and goals of the organization.
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So how do you differentiate your org from all the rest?
 
wymoose said:
Brad Carter here, would love to have you guys learn a bit more about the organization. It’s great to speculate, but would be preferred if rumors didn’t get started erroneously.

100% volunteer
Biggest concern is creating a voice for the hunter.
The outfitters involved in this are not in favor of LQ
Our board consists of 5 members, only one can be a guide or outfitter.

Follow along by signing up for our newsletter. We’ll be publishing a bunch of info about the structure and goals of the organization.
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From what I know about Brad he is a "straight shooter" and a diehard hunter. He's not going to hide an agenda and has regular guys and the deer herd in mind.
 
jm77 said:
From what I know about Brad he is a "straight shooter" and a diehard hunter. He's not going to hide an agenda and has regular guys and the deer herd in mind.
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I don't doubt that this is true. But honestly, cant the same be said about every MD group when they started. I feel like I have heard this all before. Hell, one of my best friends was the original treasurer for MFF. He fits your description of Brad to a tee. He never received a dime. As that group grew, they shifted, just as has every startup conservation org. Even this new group talks of eventually needing to hire bios, lawyers, accountants, etc.

Would really like to hear from the leadership why my $25 is better spent with this group than with any one of the other handful of MD conservation groups. If it to advocate for the same opening date for G&H units then no thanks, I can do that myself.

Just feels like this story has been told before. How long until they have a annual banquet? How long until they are asking for a Comms tag to raffle off? How long until they have paid staff and we can all argue about what the correct salary for a staff lawyer is? How long till my dues are paying for a truck wrap?

I know I am one cynical SOB. I really do hope they are successful. I would love to finally give my time and money to an org that actually got positive results for MD. So far that hasn't happened. I have given my time and money to many groups to date and what I have gotten is a group that eventually crapped all over what I do for a living, an overpaid CEO, some studies that show MD migrate a really long distance and a bunch of raffles that I never win.
 
Tre heiner said:
svinews.com

Wyoming Range Mule Deer Association selects five board members

◆ Members are united in proposing a change to hunt season dates and general licensing regulations. Outfitters and resident hunters gathered to formally elect board members for the Wyoming Range Mule Deer Association on Monday, March 7 at the Thayne Community Center. Resident hunters have four...
svinews.com svinews.com
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Just a quick question. The SVI article states, "We would like to have hunters choose and buy a regional license and only hunt one area."
I am confused if the proposal would be to hunt one region, like a NR. For instance G or H, or would it be to hunt a specific area, like 144? Can someone in the know help me out?
 
"Pick a region for resident hunters"
No thanks.
In some of the areas I hunt region G & H are on the spine of a ridge and bucks will live on both sides of the spine. Maybe a restructuring of the Regions would be a better place to start.
I have a proposal, let's combined regions G&H and set the number of NR tags at around 500. That should help with the over crowding.
 
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mulecreek said:
I don't doubt that this is true. But honestly, cant the same be said about every MD group when they started. I feel like I have heard this all before. Hell, one of my best friends was the original treasurer for MFF. He fits your description of Brad to a tee. He never received a dime. As that group grew, they shifted, just as has every startup conservation org. Even this new group talks of eventually needing to hire bios, lawyers, accountants, etc.

Would really like to hear from the leadership why my $25 is better spent with this group than with any one of the other handful of MD conservation groups. If it to advocate for the same opening date for G&H units then no thanks, I can do that myself.

Just feels like this story has been told before. How long until they have a annual banquet? How long until they are asking for a Comms tag to raffle off? How long until they have paid staff and we can all argue about what the correct salary for a staff lawyer is? How long till my dues are paying for a truck wrap?

I know I am one cynical SOB. I really do hope they are successful. I would love to finally give my time and money to an org that actually got positive results for MD. So far that hasn't happened. I have given my time and money to many groups to date and what I have gotten is a group that eventually crapped all over what I do for a living, an overpaid CEO, some studies that show MD migrate a really long distance and a bunch of raffles that I never win.
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I’ve never heard anyone say Joshua was a straight shooter ?
 
We’re not a conservation group in the typical sense and shouldn’t rely on fundraising like most conservation organizations. Our primary goal is to create a stronger, unified voice that advocates for the Wyoming range deer herd. Our bylaws will not allow for compensation to board members or executives. We want to be able to discuss issues relating to our herd, educate ourselves and organize so that we’re much stronger than one or two guys at a meeting stating an opinion. That’s the major goal of the organization and what makes us different. Getting in bed with different organizations to raise funds doesn’t make sense, we can’t be held hostage by our fundraising to or support what’s best for the deer herd.

We see our biggest issue right now is that we don’t know how many people are hunting and what they are Taking out of regions G and H. We need a better understanding of that so when pressure increases, which is happening and will continue to happen, we know where it become unsustainable. There’s more than one way to get that data.

In my opinion the Game and Fish is looking to enact a change, and that looks like either LQ statewide, splitting seasons, choose your weapon, or something less drastic like using the current NR Regions for residents to pick where they are hunting. We want a seat at the table when they make their decision. This is my last post on here for a few days as I’m going out of service. If you’d like to learn more, feel free to reach out to any of the board members, or send me and email- [email protected]
 
wymoose said:
We’re not a conservation group in the typical sense and shouldn’t rely on fundraising like most conservation organizations. Our primary goal is to create a stronger, unified voice that advocates for the Wyoming range deer herd. Our bylaws will not allow for compensation to board members or executives. We want to be able to discuss issues relating to our herd, educate ourselves and organize so that we’re much stronger than one or two guys at a meeting stating an opinion. That’s the major goal of the organization and what makes us different. Getting in bed with different organizations to raise funds doesn’t make sense, we can’t be held hostage by our fundraising to or support what’s best for the deer herd.

We see our biggest issue right now is that we don’t know how many people are hunting and what they are Taking out of regions G and H. We need a better understanding of that so when pressure increases, which is happening and will continue to happen, we know where it become unsustainable. There’s more than one way to get that data.

In my opinion the Game and Fish is looking to enact a change, and that looks like either LQ statewide, splitting seasons, choose your weapon, or something less drastic like using the current NR Regions for residents to pick where they are hunting. We want a seat at the table when they make their decision. This is my last post on here for a few days as I’m going out of service. If you’d like to learn more, feel free to reach out to any of the board members, or send me and email- [email protected]
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Brad, if you need more data, please explain why your group is going to take issues, like region tags, and support them at the next season setting meeting.
 
I know im just naive and optimistic but I believe the Wyoming Range herd doesn’t need another advocate. I’m ok with current seasons and allocations of tags for residents and non residents. I can’t support an organization at this point that even mentions loss of hunter opportunity. Any gains from that loss of opportunity is easily lost with one bad winter. Which is worse? To kill a 2pt in in the fall or have it starve to death in February?

The herd needs a few mild winters and so far this one is shaping up nicely for them. With your new organization you should hope for a few more mild winters so you can ride the coattails. Then a bad winter will come and you’ll be fed to the wolves for the next few.

Good luck. You’re going to need it.
 
Please call us.we want everyone’s thoughts and opinions. This is why it is important for you guys to get involved. Your voice counts. You have the ability to present ideas and vote. The board consists of 4 residents and one outfitter. The residents hold the power. At the end of the day thiS is about the mule deer. We can all agree that the mule deer are struggling. And the current management plan isn’t working. Things need to change and we need to all come together to present factual ideas that will help without taking the hunting opertunity away. As such as a draw. That’s not supported. But if you want a say in what we present and push at commissioner meetings, you need to get involved. This is nothing like a Muley fanatics. All positions are elected and can be elected out if they don’t represent there constituents. This is set up for the voice of the voice of the people.(members) so get involved
 
Tre heiner said:
Please call us.we want everyone’s thoughts and opinions. This is why it is important for you guys to get involved. Your voice counts. You have the ability to present ideas and vote. The board consists of 4 residents and one outfitter. The residents hold the power. At the end of the day thiS is about the mule deer. We can all agree that the mule deer are struggling. And the current management plan isn’t working. Things need to change and we need to all come together to present factual ideas that will help without taking the hunting opertunity away. As such as a draw. That’s not supported. But if you want a say in what we present and push at commissioner meetings, you need to get involved. This is nothing like a Muley fanatics. All positions are elected and can be elected out if they don’t represent there constituents. This is set up for the voice of the voice of the people.(members) so get involved
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Sent Brad an email with my thoughts. Glad you are trying to make a difference and get your voice heard. Do not agree with your points, entirely. No one really knows how many people jump between units and openers. You stated in the linked article that "everyone" jumps to 135. We both know thats not true. How many actually do it? Would it result in less bucks being killed? Would it result in less hunters? No one really know these answers.

Pick a region is something I have heard your board members advocate for at G&F and TF meetings. How would this help Wyo range MD? How many less bucks would be killed by doing this? I could easily make the argument that it would result in more Wyo range bucks being killed. Might make Zachs hunt a bit less crowded but even that is debatable. Have a hard time seeing how removing options for res hunters will bring the herd back. For me and my family, options under the Gen tag is the reason we hardly ever take a buck in the Wyo range, despite hunting it every year. That and I suck at hunting MD. Sounds like a lot of your points are more centered around seeing less people in the field. I can see that being important but not sure it helps MD.

I would like to pick your brain more about this, I will try to make your next meeting or perhaps I'll see you at the Afton season setting meeting.
 
mulecreek said "For me and my family, options under the Gen tag is the reason we hardly ever take a buck in the Wyo range, despite hunting it every year."

This is exactly correct, in fact general area options are the reason hundreds of MD bucks are not harvested every year statewide.
 
From the very start the idea of forcing resident to pick a unit or region is a non starter. Sorry I will just not support that action. The common start date for neighboring units is fine because no matter what I can only be one place at a time.

Furthermore, data is the key... Where is the data? I would say that the very first thing to push for is getting actual data that is as complete as possible. That means before I would change anything I would first pursue mandatory reporting for every license holder. Then based on that data make informed decisions.

Lastly, the simple fact that I can move around and hunt for several weeks in different units and not be forced to hunt one unit for one week allows my family to be picky. We don't even consider a buck that is under 3.5 years old and since we can be picky and hold out until the very end, we are much more likely to eat tag soup. Limiting residents to a single area that may only have a 5-7 day season would mean that the pressure to fill a tag is much higher and people would be significantly more likely to shoot the first legal buck they find.
 
SS! said:
We all know you’re a muley fanatic fan boy ?
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Was at one time! Once MDF, once RMEF , but ya know I’m kinda learning that **** gos in the wrong direction once they pick up steam. So yes I’m skeptical!! ?. The mule deer need help for sure, but MDF been around long time, then MFF, and it dosnt seem it’s getting better anywhere, sure they do there projects but not enough, more of the Money should be used for the deer not self House wife’s of Hollywood life styles, And the likes of RMEF not sure about that either, my guess is you could take a heard to ukrain right now and the would survive and multiply, **** they grow like crazy around here in the desert and that habitat sucks!!
 
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Chesterwyo said:
Three words.
Mandatory. Harvest. Reporting.
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Yeah I’ve been saying it for years. No excuse that WY can’t tell you exactly how many deer were killed last fall in G and H. Hell in alaska if you don’t fill out your harvest reports you can’t put in for tags the following year.

A lot could be accomplished if the number of people that show up for a banquet instead took that time and went to WYGFD meetings.

Oh and stop judging the Wyoming range herd by how many 200” deer you see scouting/hunting/harvested.
 
As the song gos by 3rd Bass gos, I should have started RAPE (Residents Against Phony Expenditures) Pop gos the weasels the weasels ?
 
@mulecreek Thought it was a hard hat at least .

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I ran into a Wildlife Task Force member this last fall at a gas station. He said some interesting things during our conversation. First, he said there was discussion about picking a region for residents for mule deer. Second, they were discussing limiting rifle shots to 400 yards. Finally, they discussed making it illegal to use a crossbow during the archery season. He also said to make sure you email the board directly, and not through the website. They don't read the thousand of comments through the website.
 
Southpawshooter said:
I ran into a Wildlife Task Force member this last fall at a gas station. He said some interesting things during our conversation. First, he said there was discussion about picking a region for residents for mule deer. Second, they were discussing limiting rifle shots to 400 yards. Finally, they discussed making it illegal to use a crossbow during the archery season. He also said to make sure you email the board directly, and not through the website. They don't read the thousand of comments through the website.
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Yes they do read the comments through the website and there are not thousands of them they make all the comments publicly available on the website
 
Southpawshooter said:
I ran into a Wildlife Task Force member this last fall at a gas station. He said some interesting things during our conversation. First, he said there was discussion about picking a region for residents for mule deer. Second, they were discussing limiting rifle shots to 400 yards. Finally, they discussed making it illegal to use a crossbow during the archery season. He also said to make sure you email the board directly, and not through the website. They don't read the thousand of comments through the website.
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Teten doesn't have much of a voice on the task force.
 
Bookhead said:
Yes they do read the comments through the website and there are not thousands of them they make all the comments publicly available on the website
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Okay. I must have misunderstood him when he said they don't read the comments on the website. You can change thousands to hundreds, fifty, or ten. It doesn't matter to me.

BuzzH said:
Teten doesn't have much of a voice on the task force.
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It wasn't anyone named Teten.
 
I reached out to a task force member to get a local meeting with 3 members.. My reason was to let people know whats going on. Although it might be a bad idea. Last time people were wanting hunting muzzleoader only seasons, how they never see animals while hunting but yet to lazy to get out of the truck

The issue is a lot of people dont get involved or listen. But when the change comes they are going to throw a fit. All i can say is well you had a chance to attend and comment. I have decided not to burn my 21 moose points and keep applying for the area i want. I am young enough to wait . Plus my kids will be older so they can join
 
Southpawshooter said:
I ran into a Wildlife Task Force member this last fall at a gas station. He said some interesting things during our conversation. First, he said there was discussion about picking a region for residents for mule deer. Second, they were discussing limiting rifle shots to 400 yards. Finally, they discussed making it illegal to use a crossbow during the archery season. He also said to make sure you email the board directly, and not through the website. They don't read the thousand of comments through the website.
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I am in favor of limiting Residents shots to 400 yards or less. Not a bad idea…
 
JakeSwensen said:
"Pick a region for resident hunters"
No thanks.
In some of the areas I hunt region G & H are on the spine of a ridge and bucks will live on both sides of the spine. Maybe a restructuring of the Regions would be a better place to start.
I have a proposal, let's combined regions G&H and set the number of NR tags at around 500. That should help with the over crowding.
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I’m not Opposed to that idea. And then do the 90/10 split 500 NR for G and H combined and 5000 residents for G and H combined. That’s actually a good idea Jake.
 
The real question is what tags will the Wyoming Range Mule Deer Association be raffling off?

All great conservation groups start with raffles for tags valid for the animals they are trying to protect. What better way to protect them than by killing them?

Will the WRMDA (terrible acronym) be working with the MFF on a collaboration project? Can you guys pool resources together to be more efficient? You could share the same raffle boxes for one…
 
I appreciate all the concern. This organization has nothing to do with MFF, and other organizations. I’m glad you guys are speaking out. We want to hear everyone’s opinions on this deer Hurd, and it’s current management. What are your thoughts? Do you think the over all buck quality is what it was 10 ,15,20 year’s ago?
Would you change any management practices, and if so what? Do you think this herd (bucks)can sustain the increasing hunting pressure on them year after year and increase quality. What have you noticed. Let’s hear your thoughts. Thanks

Respectfully Tre Heiner
 
Tre heiner said:
I appreciate all the concern. This organization has nothing to do with MFF, and other organizations. I’m glad you guys are speaking out. We want to hear everyone’s opinions on this deer Hurd, and it’s current management. What are your thoughts? Do you think the over all buck quality is what it was 10 ,15,20 year’s ago?
Would you change any management practices, and if so what? Do you think this herd (bucks)can sustain the increasing hunting pressure on them year after year and increase quality. What have you noticed. Let’s hear your thoughts. Thanks

Respectfully Tre Heiner
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Well my opinion won't be popular here but the pressure does need to be limited. It's out of control I'm not hunting it this year because it's almost a waste of a weeks vacation for me ive scouted my a$$ off in those areas the last 3 years over the summer and I always get screwed by other hunters weather it be non residents or residents. Most residents I will admit have been respectful I've had some non residents be very disrespectful but I'm not saying they are more disrespectful in general they just have more to lose if they don't kill a deer I think which is understandable to an extent but in my run ins with other hunters if they are about to bust deer out I've been Watching all summer I usually have talked to them and most residents will move to another basin or we make a plan to not be tripping over each other or they leave that particular group of deer alone where as I can't say the same for non residents in a few instances
 
I think quality will always be there just not quantity as 10,15 or 20 yrs ago, but that’s in the whole west . Personally I do think Mandatory Reporting should be involved. We really should know what and what’s not being taken every year in each unit. I was discussing numbers of residents in g and h with another MM member earlier and only way that I can find is on those harvest reports which don’t tell ya much as guys hunt different units and those are just the ones that are polled and answers them!
 
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DoubleDropMuley said:
I think quality will always be there just not quantity as 10,15 or 20 yrs ago, but that’s in the whole west . Personally I do think Mandatory Reporting should be involved. We really should know what and what’s not being taken every year in each unit.
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I agree with that 100% I don't even know how they think they can possibly manage a herd without knowing what's even in the area any given year
 
Tre heiner said:
I’m not Opposed to that idea. And then do the 90/10 split 500 NR for G and H combined and 5000 residents for G and H combined. That’s actually a good idea Jake.
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I'm not advocating for limited quota for resident hunters in G&H. I have only been watching this deer herd since 2009. The winter of 2016-17 was brutal, a lot of deer died that winter but going into the fall of 2017 deer body fat % was off the charts. A lot of high quality feed that summer?
The new highway crossings coming this summer will save a good number of does. (The baby makers)
This year during the rut and into the winter I saw some great breeder bucks. Hopefully this fall is a good one.
I too would like to see mandatory harvest reports and buck to doe ratios continue to be monitored before too many changes are made. I like having the opportunity to hunt the backcountry every fall and it's not just about the trophy bucks. I think our herd will continue to improve up to what it was before the 2016-17 winter. Maybe even better if we get the right balance of weather and predator control.
 
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No need to make changes till we know how many bucks hunters are harvesting

Are they trying to limit hunters? Are they trying to grow bigger deer? Anyone know the purpose of this group?
 
This is great. Almost 95% of the people we talk to in the organization, or out of the organization all have the same opinion for the most part. The only reason the pick your region is supported is to get actual hard numbers of how many people are hunting in what units. ( which there is other ways) such as mandatory hunt Survey and such) which I’d say is topic that is being advocated for the strongest by the association), predator s is another huge topic that is coming up in a few meetings. This association is designed to bring large groups together and educate, so we have a large backing when we go to commission and legislative meetings, so we have a large voice to get things pushed such as increas lion and bear quotas, and more aerial gunning on coyotes on winter ranges. This organization dose not advocate for any limited quota, but dose realize the increas of residents pressure each year. And we’re reaching out to people like you guys as well to find ways to spread that pressure out with out taking the opportunity to hunt over the counter each year. But first we must have actual hard data on how many hunters are really hunting, and exactly how many bucks are being killed. Right now this is the numbers we have but as you know the surveys are voluntary and are estimated that only 50% of them get filled out and returned. So on on number of bucks killed or number of residents hunters we don’t have hard data but this is what we do know

We know there is only 400 non res tags in G and 600 in H. and outfitters have mandatory reporting so we have there numbers as well.

Here are the numbers we have for G and H

G
# of hunters. Bucks killed
Res 4909. 1197
NR. 400. 141
Out. 91. 42
Total. 5309. 1338
H
# of hunters. Bucks killed
Res. 3003. 612
NR. 600. 304
Out. 110. 36
Total. 3603. 916

G and H combined there was a total of 9052 hunters and 2254 bucks killed.
That just goes to show you how amazing this deer heard really is, to take that much hunting pressure and still be as good as it is. In my opinion there is not another deer herd in the world that compares to the Wyoming range. This deer herd means the world to me and so many of you, and thats why I joined this organization, so we can protect it from turning into just a memory of what it used to be. This organization is not owned or run by any certain person. Every position is elected, and re elected every couple years. No salaries are to be made by any one. All decisions are are proposed by the members and than voted on. Pleas come to our next meeting. I will let you know when that is scheduled. If you have any ideas or any disagreement, you can call me or simply ask a question. But being a key board warrior and making presumption and talking crap dose nothing good or productive. We want everybody that has an interest in this deer herds opinion. That’s how we shape up ideas and salutions. Thanks
Respectfully Tre Heiner
 
I know it would be pretty much impossible to do but a set quota for deer being killed could be a good idea if it was mandatory to check your deer in like many other states. Then once the quota is met the season is over. With technology today I don't think it would be completely impossible to have people be able to check a deer in online from their phone I have no idea
 
Pretty easy for residents in western Wyoming to want residents to pick a region. They think it will make their hunting experience better. It's not like guys from Star Valley are making the 6 hour drive to hunt unit 66 in Region D.

@Tre heiner - You stated, "That just goes to show you how amazing this deer heard really is, to take that much hunting pressure and still be as good as it is." You can't say it's good on one hand and say it's going to be a memory if something isn't changed on the other.

What happens when picking a region puts more people in G&H? I can tell you if it comes down to picking a region I am picking G. I haven't been hunting G. I have searching general units throughout the state trying to find something overlooked. If they are going to force me to pick a region I am going back to G. It will allow me to hunt from Sept 15 to October 12. Try finding that many hunting days in a different region.
 
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Probably not popular , but I do not support mandatory reporting. Why , if hunters are not regulated in numbers, do we need more gov't regulation? Yes it would be nice to know what's getting taken but unless they intend to regulate hunters numbers then mandatory reporting is a no go in my book.
If they go LQ then maybe.
 
"We want everybody that has an interest in this deer herds opinion."
@Tre heiner - You sure you want to say this? Or mean it? A common theme is that one must have citizenship in Wyoming to voice an opinion about wildlife in Wyoming. You may want to run that comment by your board before spreading it. ---just sayin' :unsure:

That would be great if you really wanted to hear, and cared for, opinions from those who care about that deer herd regardless of where they hang their hat, but that's something I'd have to see to believe.

BTW - While all deer herds need constant attention to keep them strong, that herd in my opinion is just fine, and for now hunter numbers are fine as well. Quality (number of huge bucks) may not be what it was 20 or 30 years ago, but very few hunt units, if any, are. I think the harvest reporting and picking a region is a good idea and a good start, but talking about taking opportunity away with tag cuts isn't. Technology and season length in my opinion has taken its toll on quality (huge bucks), but quantity of bucks from what I see is just fine for current hunter numbers.
In all honesty, quality is pretty good too. Of course folks like myself with very high expectations are finding it more difficult to find what we're after, but tag cuts shouldn't happen so that a guy like myself only has to spend 10 days scouting to find a 190 buck versus 20 days.
I just believe there are quite a few things to try before cutting tags. If we want quality like we may have had 30 years ago, then we need to find a way to dial back the advantages we have over the game to the level of the 1990's.
You're not going to put it all back in the bag, but I believe there definitely things that can be stuffed back in the bag that would preserve opportunity while maintaining quantity and quality of the bucks.
 
Tre heiner said:
This is great. Almost 95% of the people we talk to in the organization, or out of the organization all have the same opinion for the most part. The only reason the pick your region is supported is to get actual hard numbers of how many people are hunting in what units. ( which there is other ways) such as mandatory hunt Survey and such) which I’d say is topic that is being advocated for the strongest by the association), predator s is another huge topic that is coming up in a few meetings. This association is designed to bring large groups together and educate, so we have a large backing when we go to commission and legislative meetings, so we have a large voice to get things pushed such as increas lion and bear quotas, and more aerial gunning on coyotes on winter ranges. This organization dose not advocate for any limited quota, but dose realize the increas of residents pressure each year. And we’re reaching out to people like you guys as well to find ways to spread that pressure out with out taking the opportunity to hunt over the counter each year. But first we must have actual hard data on how many hunters are really hunting, and exactly how many bucks are being killed. Right now this is the numbers we have but as you know the surveys are voluntary and are estimated that only 50% of them get filled out and returned. So on on number of bucks killed or number of residents hunters we don’t have hard data but this is what we do know

We know there is only 400 non res tags in G and 600 in H. and outfitters have mandatory reporting so we have there numbers as well.

Here are the numbers we have for G and H

G
# of hunters. Bucks killed
Res 4909. 1197
NR. 400. 141
Out. 91. 42
Total. 5309. 1338
H
# of hunters. Bucks killed
Res. 3003. 612
NR. 600. 304
Out. 110. 36
Total. 3603. 916

G and H combined there was a total of 9052 hunters and 2254 bucks killed.
That just goes to show you how amazing this deer heard really is, to take that much hunting pressure and still be as good as it is. In my opinion there is not another deer herd in the world that compares to the Wyoming range. This deer herd means the world to me and so many of you, and thats why I joined this organization, so we can protect it from turning into just a memory of what it used to be. This organization is not owned or run by any certain person. Every position is elected, and re elected every couple years. No salaries are to be made by any one. All decisions are are proposed by the members and than voted on. Pleas come to our next meeting. I will let you know when that is scheduled. If you have any ideas or any disagreement, you can call me or simply ask a question. But being a key board warrior and making presumption and talking crap dose nothing good or productive. We want everybody that has an interest in this deer herds opinion. That’s how we shape up ideas and salutions. Thanks
Respectfully Tre Heiner
Click to expand...
That sounds great it really does. But those numbers are cheatgrass numbers. Not accurate.

What is the trend in hunter numbers in G and H the last 10 years? Is there really more people? Or is it a perceived problem?

How many deer are actually killed? What units? How many people hunt each unit?

Before ANY action is taken I would like to see actual numbers on the following:

1) How many hunters hunt the area every year. What units (at bare minimum region)

2) Actual harvest numbers.

3) Population trend and buck to doe ratio etc (this I'm fairly certain we have)

5 years worth before there's even a serious discussion on making any changes.

It is complete foolishness compare mandatory reporting with more govt regulation. You need the data before you can even think of adjusting tags, seasons, etc.
 
Founder said:
"We want everybody that has an interest in this deer herds opinion."
@Tre heiner - You sure you want to say this? Or mean it? A common theme is that one must have citizenship in Wyoming to voice an opinion about wildlife in Wyoming. You may want to run that comment by your board before spreading it. ---just sayin' :unsure:

That would be great if you really wanted to hear, and cared for, opinions from those who care about that deer herd regardless of where they hang their hat, but that's something I'd have to see to believe.

BTW - While all deer herds need constant attention to keep them strong, that herd in my opinion is just fine, and for now hunter numbers are fine as well. Quality (number of huge bucks) may not be what it was 20 or 30 years ago, but very few hunt units, if any, are. I think the harvest reporting and picking a region is a good idea and a good start, but talking about taking opportunity away with tag cuts isn't. Technology and season length in my opinion has taken its toll on quality (huge bucks), but quantity of bucks from what I see is just fine for current hunter numbers.
In all honesty, quality is pretty good too. Of course folks like myself with very high expectations are finding it more difficult to find what we're after, but tag cuts shouldn't happen so that a guy like myself only has to spend 10 days scouting to find a 190 buck versus 20 days.
I just believe there are quite a few things to try before cutting tags. If we want quality like we may have had 30 years ago, then we need to find a way to dial back the advantages we have over the game to the level of the 1990's.
You're not going to put it all back in the bag, but I believe there definitely things that can be stuffed back in the bag that would preserve opportunity while maintaining quantity and quality of the bucks.
Click to expand...
Thanks for weighing in. Yes I want opinions from all different angles. And You like almost everyother person I talk to hit in a lot of the same points. And when we see a huge cluster of points of the same thoughts, that factually have backing, that’s the points and issues we want to push. Like you mentioned technology. And not everyone agrees with the same thing. But we can look and see where the smoke is and work on that fire before that damage is to far gone. This organization is bigger than what I can text on this. And I guess if you guys think that everything is just perfect the way it is and we shouldnt be trying to help and improve this deer herd, than, we will just have to agree to disagree, cause I’m here to tell you there is an enormous amount of sportsmen that think differently, and have huge concerns. I spend as much or more time than anyone I personally know, on the mountain with this deer herd, and without a doubt I have seen the overall quality slowly but steadily decline. There will always be some big bucks, and we will always have bad winters to deal with. But we could change some management that helps us rebound from them bad winters a lot faster. Bryan please give me a call I’d love to talk with you. 307-730-4868
 
Sorry SS but I do not support mandatory harvest reporting. Unless someone from WG&F is physically there to take the data how do they know it is truthful or accurate?
If they make changes to LQ then maybe I would support it but again, how would anyone know the data given is accurate?
Sad, but I believe many would not give accurate or truthful data if it was required to self report. Be nice if all were truthful but I don't see that happening.
 
wytex said:
Sorry SS but I do not support mandatory harvest reporting. Unless someone from WG&F is physically there to take the data how do they know it is truthful or accurate?
If they make changes to LQ then maybe I would support it but again, how would anyone know the data given is accurate?
Sad, but I believe many would not give accurate or truthful data if it was required to self report. Be nice if all were truthful but I don't see that happening.
Click to expand...
Why would anyone lie on a harvest survey that doesn't even make sense
 
I think the amount of people that would lie in a harvest survey would be so minimal it wouldn't alter the numbers at all and that's ridiculous to not want mandatory harvest surveys because of that.
 
Definitely don’t want LQ, or anymore point systems !! And I don’t understand why people wouldn’t put accurate info especially if they want better or more opportunities, be defeating the purpose ?‍♂️
 
I have no problem with mandatory reporting. However, what is going to be done with the data? No point in collecting and processing data if there is no concrete plan on what to do with that data and by whom.

Do the bios think they need this data to help them set season recommendations? If not then what's the point? Western Wyo deer herd is controlled by food. If they have enough they live and the herd grows. If they have enough food and winter is light and the does are healthy through the winter then they produce bucks that will produce bigger racks.

Are all the does getting bred? Bio's study the crap out of this herd. Are they finding a statistically significant number of does that are not getting bred? If so then maybe more bucks are needed if not then they got enough bucks to grow the herd provided enough food is available.

Seems a lot of what people hope to gain by this data is something to help support their thought that too many people are hunting Region G and H. In the last 10 years or so we continue to see some years where the herd grows and others where it is devastated by lack of food.

So much of this is a hunter satisfaction issue rather than a herd issue. Harvest reporting or pick a region in this case is simply a plan to get fewer hunters in Region G & H and hopefully lead to bigger bucks. That's all fine, but it needs to be framed as such. Hunter satisfaction with G&H must be overall good or you wouldn't see so many people hunting it. Residents have lots of options, they still keep coming. NR's wait years, soon to be decades, to hunt this area. They wouldn't do that if satisfaction wasn't there.
 
Recently, I have been reading a lot about Wyoming deer, the approved and proposed changes in hunter and herd "management", etc. In topics like this one I have a lot going against me as I am a non-resident. My girlfriend and I are putting in for Region G. Was I stockpiling points? No. I was buying points as a plan to take her into a nice area to hunt once she had some previous exposure to hunting in higher elevations. I hunted Region G in 2006 with my dad and family friend and really enjoyed the scenery and the other hunters we met.

I agree with SS! and Founder on how posted harvest numbers are not representative when used in interpreting the health of a deer herd, how much hunting pressure there is, and adopting of new govt regulations. How do we know there were 5,309 hunters actually out with boots (or tires) on the ground hunting. How many that were out there got out of their vehicles?

Spotting scopes, rangefinders, long range rifles have not only upped the hunter advantage, this technology has also made certain hunters lazy. Just like quads, utv's, etc. have.

Do the harvested numbers just come from estimates by those staffing the check stations? "We saw 3 trucks go by, so that was 3 deer, or maybe 5 deer."

We have mandatory harvest reporting in California. Do they require that to adjust seasons, tags, and management practices for the animals? I highly doubt it. IMO, they do it to manage the hunters. I have never seen any buck:doe counts, or updated zone hunt info sheets in the resources provided in California. We drew a limited quota zone in California a couple years ago and never saw a single buck (dead or alive) off private property. A hunter we camped near saw 6 different mountain lions by the 2nd morning of the season. Roughly 2 years into mandatory reporting, the tags were reduced in this zone to ease the hunting pressure. How did they figure out it was hunting pressure that was reducing the deer numbers? 3 deer tags or 3 mountain lions, which kills more deer in a month?
 
Bookhead said:
I know it would be pretty much impossible to do but a set quota for deer being killed could be a good idea if it was mandatory to check your deer in like many other states. Then once the quota is met the season is over. With technology today I don't think it would be completely impossible to have people be able to check a deer in online from their phone I have no idea
Click to expand...
Bad idea...
This would have every hunter on the mountain killing bucks that they might have passed on. Ending the season when the quota is met for bears is completely different.
A lot of deer hunters (myself included) hold out for a bigger or older age class animal. Many years I don't fill my tag but it's not because I couldn't have in the first few days of the hunt with nice buck.
 
JakeSwensen said:
Bad idea...
This would have every hunter on the mountain killing bucks that they might have passed on. Ending the season when the quota is met for bears is completely different.
A lot of deer hunters (myself included) hold out for a bigger or older age class animal. Many years I don't fill my tag but it's not because I couldn't have in the first few days of the hunt with nice buck.
Click to expand...
Maybe... I'm the same way as you in that regards but I don't shoot a dink on the last day just to fill my tag neither do you. I think the people that are going to shoot dinks are going to do it regardless
 
wytex said:
Sorry SS but I do not support mandatory harvest reporting. Unless someone from WG&F is physically there to take the data how do they know it is truthful or accurate?
If they make changes to LQ then maybe I would support it but again, how would anyone know the data given is accurate?
Sad, but I believe many would not give accurate or truthful data if it was required to self report. Be nice if all were truthful but I don't see that happening.
Click to expand...
So with that logic why do we have any laws? How do we have a society? Are you a natural pessimist or is this due to a lifetime of experience?

Sounds like you have trust issues that should not be applied to management of our wildlife. Or maybe you just run with a shady group? I don't know anyone that would lie on a hunter survey.
 
That’s the biggest thing is self regulation, I think the majority think they have to kill for the cost of License , trip cost extra.. Not all of us can do that lol, but wished they could. Against my better judgment I ate my first coues tag this year in Arizona, could have shot little bucks but didn’t, Will I ever go chase coues again ? Not sure, I would like to and get a good one but I don’t know for sure if I’ll make it back, but that damn Arizona tag was prickly and bit me so wasn’t to great of eating ?
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
That’s the biggest thing is self regulation, I think the majority think they have to kill for the cost of License , trip cost extra.. Not all of us can do that lol, but wished they could.
Click to expand...
I agree about self-regulation, but I don't think it's a majority. IMO any type restriction, like LQ or region general tags, will cause an uptick in punched tags. Proof of this is how many hunters draw a tough to get LQ and can't find the dream buck. Rarely do they burn that tag. They find something else, even if it's not close to what they wanted.

In contrast with general, many people will hunt, not shoot a mule deer and take advantage of many general areas around the state that have November whitetail seasons. Many of my friends, family and myself have done just that.
 
jm77 said:
I agree about self-regulation, but I don't think it's a majority. IMO any type restriction, like LQ or region general tags, will cause an uptick in punched tags. Proof of this is how many hunters draw a tough to get LQ and can't find the dream buck. Rarely do they burn that tag. They find something else, even if it's not close to what they wanted.

In contrast with general, many people will hunt, not shoot a mule deer and take advantage of many general areas around the state that have November whitetail seasons. Many of my friends, family and myself have done just that.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Don't forget about the part where they not only fail in finding their dream buck but upon shooting a lesser buck complain that the unit is "going downhill".

Lets track the following for the next 5 years:

1) exact number of deer harvested
2) number of hunters (not just successful)
3) areas/regions hunted
4) mule deer population post hunting season

Until we have that date zero discussion on tag allocation/restricting hunters. It wasn’t long ago they reduced the number of non resident tags. How did that affect the deer hunting? No one knows.

Do not come out of the gate wanting changes based off personal observations etc. Your perspective shouldn’t be a driving force to change regulations that affect everyone. There are plenty of people that have said for the last 20 years region G and H were already ruined. Todays ruined areas are someone’s good old days in the not too distant future.

Of course that’s all just my opinion…
 
SS! said:
So with that logic why do we have any laws? How do we have a society? Are you a natural pessimist or is this due to a lifetime of experience?

Sounds like you have trust issues that should not be applied to management of our wildlife. Or maybe you just run with a shady group? I don't know anyone that would lie on a hunter survey.
Click to expand...
I would love to be wrong about false info but hey, just look at comments on this forum and then tell me everyone is honest.
Sorry I just don't want more hoops to jump through while hunting, laws are great and I obey them.
If WG&F wants to expand check stations for reporting then by all means lets do it, but thinking all folks that hunt are going to report honestly is just pie in the sky I think.

Again I would like to be wrong about this but I just don.t see it.
If that is passed then by all means I'll abide by the regulation.
Just being a realists, not pessimistic or trust issues.
 
wytex said:
I would love to be wrong about false info but hey, just look at comments on this forum and then tell me everyone is honest.
Sorry I just don't want more hoops to jump through while hunting, laws are great and I obey them.
If WG&F wants to expand check stations for reporting then by all means lets do it, but thinking all folks that hunt are going to report honestly is just pie in the sky I think.

Again I would like to be wrong about this but I just don.t see it.
If that is passed then by all means I'll abide by the regulation.
Just being a realists, not pessimistic or trust issues.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. But I want to know what hoops you currently have to jump through to hunt? You make it sounds like the existing system is already burdensome. Currently you drive to the local wal mart and can buy a deer and elk tag. How difficult is that?

So you’re against mandatory reporting but ok with check stations? And to expand check stations? Mandatory reporting no one can drive around or wait till after dark. But check stations are an antiquated way of getting data and you’re ok with that?

What’s your views on plugging sheep? ?
 
wytex said:
I would love to be wrong about false info but hey, just look at comments on this forum and then tell me everyone is honest.
Sorry I just don't want more hoops to jump through while hunting, laws are great and I obey them.
If WG&F wants to expand check stations for reporting then by all means lets do it, but thinking all folks that hunt are going to report honestly is just pie in the sky I think.

Again I would like to be wrong about this but I just don.t see it.
If that is passed then by all means I'll abide by the regulation.
Just being a realists, not pessimistic or trust issues.
Click to expand...

You're not.

ClearCreek
 
jm77 said:
You're seriously not in favor of mandatory reporting? Please explain as someone from the trenches.
Click to expand...
No, far from it.

I believe the amount of false information being reported by hunters is greater than most people realize. That is all I am going to say on this subject.

ClearCreek
 
jm77 said:
Sometimes I think G&F doesn't really want the truth.
Click to expand...
I feel like most hunters are afraid of the truth, or they just don't like it. It challenges their own narrative or personal perception.

Mandatory reporting is far from a silver bullet. It's still subject to non reporting or inaccurate data and it still need to be verified and fully vetted. The process is not too much different than the effort that goes into determining harvest and pressure estimates through harvest surveys. Which, coincidentally, is what most states are already doing.
 
appaloosa said:
I feel like most hunters are afraid of the truth, or they just don't like it. It challenges their own narrative or personal perception.

Mandatory reporting is far from a silver bullet. It's still subject to non reporting or inaccurate data and it still need to be verified and fully vetted. The process is not too much different than the effort that goes into determining harvest and pressure estimates through harvest surveys. Which, coincidentally, is what most states are already doing.
Click to expand...
Make it so if you don’t report you are not eligible for applying for the draw the following year and I bet you get 99.99% of the reports back.

Wyoming already has mandatory reporting for other species so why not deer?

What’s the worst that can happen with having more data?
 
ClearCreek said:
And why would you say that?

ClearCreek
Click to expand...
Apparently you aren't done talking about it. So we should be worried about false reporting? Do we worry about it with harvest surveys now? Do you guys really listen at the meetings or is it just going through the motions? Sportsman want mandatory reporting and frankly I believe for all the right reasons.

Bud, I could tell you plenty of stories over forty years dealing with G&F issues. The all know me down at the office and they know I support them over 90% of the time. Still there is that less than 10% and much of that is due to not being able to accurately report trends, populations and such. We told them for years about population trends with mule deer around here, but until they did a sightability survey, they didn't believe us.

Am I making sense?
 

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