10% AZ limit on NR is not Fair

M

Mississippi

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1
Please explain to me how it is OK for the state of AZ to limit non-resident hunters to 10% of the best Elk and Deer tags in the country.
Please consider the following:
1. The AZ hunting license I have purchased for the past 7 years (in order to get a bonus point) costs me five times as much as a resident pays for the same license. Arizona hunting license revenue from NR license sales is $2,070,000 vs revenue from resident license sales $1,390,000 (2003 annual report of AZGFD).
2. If I get drawn I will pay five times as much as a resident pays for the tag.
3. 99% of the land that the elk and deer inhabit is owned and managed by the federal government.
I could keep going with more valid reasons, but what is the point??.

Thousands NR hunters travel each year to my home state, Mississippi, for some of the best waterfowl and whitetail deer hunting in the country. The NR hunters cause the price of private land leases to increase as well as crowding up the public hunting areas. You don't hear me complaining about that.

Lets face it. Arizona has the best elk herd and one of the best mule deer herds in the country because the AZGFD manages the resource properly. They do not allow over-hunting. Arizona also has one of the smallest elk herds with one of the largest human populations in the western US. Hence more hunters applying for a small number of tags.
So please, quit winning when the playing field is made level.

FYI, I apply for big game tags in 7 western states each year. When I am able to draw a tag, I hunt unguided. Scout hard, hunt hard, do it yourself, and be a hunter not a shooter.
If you are too old, too out of shape, or too stupid to have a successful hunt on your own then stay home (exception for persons with physical disabilities).

My opinion of U.S. Outfitters is that they have made a business out of a public resource. I believe that professional guides should have to pay a substantial FEDERAL tax to guide hunters on federal land.

My 2 cents. If you disagree, let me know why!
 
Mississippi,

You have a good question.

To answer it: AZ residents pay the taxes that pay the salaries of the talented biologists and resources that the AZ G&F Dept. employs.

-AZDude
 
Mississippi,
What would do if you had to draw for an opportunity to hunt ducks in your state, whick by your own admission is one of the best places to hunt? Now assume you can't go because the demand far outweighs the supply. Now lets assume 7-10 years go by and you still can't go but some NR's can. I'm sure you would be making the same fight as us Az residents. Wouldn's you?

You cannot make a comparison between hunts in which you have to be drawn and hunts in which you don't. You can anytime you want and it doesn't matter how many NR's are going too. Doesn't even come close to making sense.

I would also guess Mississippi looks forward to NR's coming and boosting their economy. NR's boost AZ economy marginally at best.

Hunting on federal land gives you the right to access it but the wildlife on it is owned by the state, not the federal government. NR's have many hunting opportunities on federal land and we would encourage you all to come out here and try hunting Javelina, quail, and archery deer hunters can by a tag over the counter and not have to worry about getting drawn.

If you were in our shoes I'd just about bet everyone out there would be making the same arguments as us Arizonan's.

By the way, I will never buy another Primos product again as long as they sponsor the USO outfitting ilk of the world. NR's who were fortunate enough to draw a coveted AZ tag, congratulations but please hire an AZ guide or try to hunt on your own. I'm sure you could get plenty of info without people giving up their "Honey Holes".

Happy Hunting
John
 
Huntazido said it best. Most states East of the rockies have a surplus of animals to exceeds the demand from hunters. But most western states have more demand from hunters than the game populations can support. Fedral Gov't may own the land, but they don't own the animals. States graze their "stock" (deer, elk) on the forest and BLM just like the ranchers graze their cattle and sheep.
 
Hey Mississippi, when is the last time you came out to Az. to donate your time and rosources to keep our herds in the shape they are in, I'll bet not once. If Az. residents did not donate time and resources such as equipment and transportation etc., we probably wouldn't have the kinds of animals we have today, and you probably would'nt care if we restricted tags or not. Trust me Az. G&F is not the only ones who take of our game animals. Plus You don't realize the percentage elk and deer that reside on STATE land and PRIVATE land owned by the RESIDENTS of Az., plus the amount of time that the animals that reside on federal land spend on private and State land.
 
The last resident Arizona Elk was shot in the early 1900's. All of the remaining elk of Arizona today are nonresident from the Yellowstone herd.
 
Mississippi,, I trust that you are a reasonable person, most true sportsman are. If you are still checking this site please don't get offended. But I have to agree completely with AZDUDE.
But more so, most hunters here have the opionion of "keep the Non-residents hunters out all together"

I think states have the legitamate right to protect the hunting opportunites it has created for its own residents.
I've been putting in for 15 yrs for bull elk and I've only got drawn once.. and with this ruling my chances will go from bad to nearyly impossible....
How you you like those kinds of odds to go hunting in your own state??? Well thats exaclty what this ruling is going to do to us.
I don't believe in taking away the hunting opportunites from the true sportsman and giving it to the money hungry outfitters who have clients seem only to be in it for the thrill of the kill and who could could care less about our delicate recources out here. I'm not saying thats you, but a good majority of these folks from out of state come in with there 25 foot fifth week hauling quads, tear up our forests by riding in places their not supposed to:

Sorry, we don't see it your way, but wouldn't it burn you up too if you couldn't hunt your favorite hunting spot, the one that you and your father, and your fathers father have been hunting for genterations and have made memories. But now you most likely will not be able to pass that tradition down to your kids because of too many non res people hunting??

Hunting these prize areas should be a part of the privlege of living here.

I promise I will never lower your chances of hunting in your own backyard.


Happy Hunting..
 
Mississippi Regulations state:
NON-RESIDENT REGULATIONS
"A non-resident may not kill antlerless deer except on lands he owns or on lands where he leases the hunting or fishing rights, or a non-resident who has a native son or daughter nonresident lifetime sportsman license or a resident lifetime sportsman license may take antlerless deer on private lands, wildlife management areas, or national wildlife refuges."

Mississippi descriminates against me because I am a Non-Resident. I can not shoot a doe on public land in Mississippi, but residents can. Talk about descrimination!!! I mean at least Arizona lets you, as a NonRes, try to draw a tag. What a bunch of #%*@(!

I also can not put in for the Spike Buck Draw for WMAs in Mississippi. I have no chance of obtaining a spike tag. At least Arizona gives us NonRes a chance at drawing a tag. Mississippi sure is stingey with their Doe and spike tags. Man my whole year is shot because Mississippi won't let me get a tag the same as a resident.

You change your State first, then I'll try to change mine (not AZ). -NOT-
 
I am a non-resident also that has been putting in for years and have not been drawn spending the money to buy my points also. I hate this new law which was passed because I also am getting very close to drawing a great elk tag in my own state of Utah and we will be next. I will be very upset at my odds going from just about to draw the tag back to not drawing a tag in the near future or lifetime. One more thing if you dont draw a tag this year I think next year the odds will be slim to none on drawing for non-resident and resident because of the extra tags they will have to give out this year. I dont care how long it takes to draw a tag being a non-resident I just wanted to have a chance at harvesting a trophy animal without the help of a guide. Dont get me wrong I know and have heard of some great guides out there but please DONT EVER USE USO THEY HAVE TAKEN A PAGE OUT OF THE RESIDENTS ODDS OF HUNTING HIS OR HER OWN STATE ON A PREMIUM UNIT EVER AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE VERY LUCKY.
YES IT IS A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD JUST WAIT UTAH WE ARE IN TROUBLE ALSO.So any non-resident that is happy this happened I dont want to hear the complaining when it happens to your state because your odds and points mean nothing and your chances to hunt in your home state have jsut taken a big hit to supply non-residents more permits.
 
Looking at the increase in tags made up by a "judge", the real loser will be the wildlife. If the Biologists are accurate in their counts and such then the additional tags on the prime areas could be seriously hurt for years. Count how many extra tags they are giving on the AZ strip and give your input. I for one think its a bad mistake to cave in like that by giving out more tags. Congrats to the rich for fouling up another good thing!
 
You're right taximan , over-harvest for the sake of out of state outfitters !
Makes me sick to think about it !!!

BAN OUTFITTERS !!!

START WITH USO !!!
 
I believe "the extra tags" where taken from the resident pool
and that why they are so pi$$ed off!
rackmaster
 
huntazido,
You make some good points. The fact is that by choosing to live in AZ you accept that the opportunty to hunt is limited. If you are drawn you will be hunting on public land (no access fee).

I am able to hunt whitetail deer for one third of the year (Oct-Jan). I choose to live in a state that allows me that opportunity. 90% of the land in Mississippi is privately owned. I have to pay each year to hunt on private land. You choose to live in a state that has less opportunity. If AZ allowed no NR hunting would you draw a tag every 4 years insted of every 8. Every four years is not enough and that is not going to change.

I am glad you will not purchase any Primos products. Any company that works with USO is S*%t in my book.
 
Guys let me tell you next year all western states are changing their policies about not resident hunters, utah,colorado,nevada is starting alwready and to tell you boys USO ouyfitters has filed law suites in Montana,Colorado and 2 other states for the same reason they won in Arizona.
Here is one reason why I believe we should limit out of state hunters (not delete them but 10 or 15 percent cap is ok with me) When will my 9 and 7 year old sons draw a tag in Arizona 5,10 years Think about it hunting is a legacy to be passed on to my children and so on but if my child is legal to hunt at the age of 10 (law in Arizona) and he draws his first tag when he is 16 or 18 years old (hopefully) what legacy can be passed on,the legacy of getting pissed off because he can't draw a tag. so I try to save my money and go out of state and buy a land owners tag.Well if the state can't handle it's own something has to be done.
AND boys you watch we all are going to get screwed because Arizona and surrounding states are being forced into this no cap or no discriminating against out of state hunters so the tags and hunting lisences are going to be going thru the roof WE are proposing 2000.00 elk permit fees for Arizona and so is the other states, so as usuall the little guy gets screwed and the richer guys has no problem with it.
Thanks uso outfitters for screwing the hunters out of what we all had
 
BSHunter,
I have given of both $$ and time in order to help the big game herds of most of the western states. Overall the efforts of the private sector do very little to impact the health of western big game populations. God does much more when he makes it rain out west.
 
Bigdeer,
I agree with you. Outfitters in business to get rich (USO) are ruining western big game hunting. This is the old 90/10 rule. The bad 10% of outfitters ruin it for the good 90% of outfitters. Ther are some good outfitters out there. The ones who take thier love for hunting and turn it into a way of life. USO is just in business to make BIG $$$$ for its owner.

I have a son. I can not take him to the land where my grandfather, father, and older brother hunted (and owned) because the US Government (Corps of engineers)took the land in the early 1960s for a small % of the actual value. I know all about loosing hunting opportunities and heratige. My son will be applying is most of the western states for tags when he is older.
I recommend thaty you apply in every western state. I promise you that most of the NR Arizona hunters are from other western states.
 
2_Point,
Please, come to MS and I promise that you can shoot as many doe as you wnat to. There are 2.8 million people in MS and about 3.1 million deer. As for wanting to shoot a spike buck, come on, your are kidding right. On our lease during the 03-04 season we shot 175 doe and 40 bucks. We needed to shoot about 50 more doe.
 
What lawsuit have they filed in Colorado ? I haven't heard of any.

Maybe their filing because we let too many hunters in and the antlers don't get big enough to sell ?
 
Mississippi?

How many of our wildfires have you non-res folks helped to put out? How many acres have you helped plant new trees on? How many times have you lobbied to reduce building permits in the forrests? All of these things are dimishing the quality of habitat for AZ's big game. They all contribute to a lesser quality hunt. Fires don't know a boundry between state and federal land. Drought doesn't only exist on State land. Us tax payers in Arizona pay for the roads that get you to your hunts. While the AZGFD does recieve federal assistance, a large portion of their revenue comes from donations of local tax payers as well as hunting licenses, over the counter tags, bird hunts (great dove & quail hunting here), Boat registrations and the list goes on. Don't be fooled into thinking that the land is "yours" just because you pay a little federal tax of which very little actually makes it's way to AZ.

JG
 
RE: Mississippi?

Lets make a deal we wont come to your state and you dont come to ours. This sucks for us but hopefully this pipe smoking judge makes all the western states the same cause we are all screwed. I hope they didn't just auth those extra tags after what was already drawn cause I looked at the list and all of them were really good tags. Maybe all you out of staters can quit whining now that you all have a tag. My vote is that they should only give you one per lifetime since thats all were gonna get!
 
RE: Mississippi?

Mississippi, the point I made was that I CAN NOT EVEN GET A TAG to hunt certain animals in Mississippi. I am a nonres and can not hunt certain animals on PUBLIC grounds in Mississippi. Your own HOME state is just as guilty when it comes to discriminating against NonRes.

All states should be able to manage as they see fit, without 1 week visitors mandating how the State should manage.
 
RE: Mississippi?

It sucks for this year for sure, But let's take it to the Supreme court. The 9th circuit is the most overturned court in the nation. Case law has already been set, stating by the supreme court that the individual state has the authority to manage "their" wildlife any ways the state sees fit, and with the residents coming first. We'll see. All i know is no one in my family and it's big drew tags, except for me drawing my cow tag. My 12 year old daughter, third year putting in, can't even draw a general cow tag first choice. My wife with 7 points cant draw a late season bull tag and their handing out tags like candy at the corner store to a large amount of others not even living or paying taxes. And by the way with a state with 3.million deer you should have non residents come and hunt them, or kill em off yourselves. hunters are a management tool, were now a source of income for greedy people. I will also not use any products endorsing Taulman. But we still need to wait for the Supreme court to do their job because taht is where this will need to go.
Bugler
 
RE: Mississippi?

Don't shoot!! I am a Mississippi boy too. Ya'll relax. I didn't draw the tag I wanted in Arizona in spite of the extra chance. I also didn't draw in Wyoming. I guess I will have to stay at home and hunt the millions of deer in the back yard.

Have all the Arizona residents considered forming some sort of association and doing things like collectivly boycotting hunting licenses. It doesn't sound like there is much chance to enjoy the outdoors in Arizona. Maybe everyone should go hunting with or without a tag. Maybe the G&F would get the point.

P.S. Mississippi, where are you from?
 
RE: Mississippi?

>How many of our wildfires have
>you non-res folks helped to
>put out? How many acres
>have you helped plant new
>trees on? How many times
>have you lobbied to reduce
>building permits in the forrests?
>All of these things are
>dimishing the quality of habitat
>for AZ's big game. They
>all contribute to a lesser
>quality hunt. Fires don't know
>a boundry between state and
>federal land. Drought doesn't only
>exist on State land. Us
>tax payers in Arizona pay
>for the roads that get
>you to your hunts. While
>the AZGFD does recieve federal
>assistance, a large portion of
>their revenue comes from donations
>of local tax payers as
>well as hunting licenses, over
>the counter tags, bird hunts
>(great dove & quail hunting
>here), Boat registrations and the
>list goes on. Don't be
>fooled into thinking that the
>land is "yours" just because
>you pay a little federal
>tax of which very little
>actually makes it's way to
>AZ.
>
>JG


You really should do some reserch before you write stuff like this... How about a little reserch on the total AZ fish and game budget is made up from non-resident funds? OR how much AZ money really comes from your state tax payers to pay for road projects... Or how much money comes from your state to support the public lands... Or just check this one out first, how many non-resident fire fighters helped put out your blazes last summer. You don't have a fuggn clue!
 
RE: Mississippi?

Enlighten us with some figures then. If what I'm saying is so far off base, by all means square me away. I never said that NON-res firefighters didn't show up to help fight the fires. Do you honestly think that the funding for that effort was waived? There is no dispute that some came from federal aide and some from local funds. Please show us the budget figures for road projects. Since I don't have a clue you'll have to use small words and back them up with the sources for your data. I'm sure this information is available via the internet. Post a link for those of us that don't have enough of a clue to perform our own research.

You shouldn't make personal jabs in your posts unless you've covered all you're own bases first.

Why would anyone take your post serious with a profile like yours? HOBBYS: Hunting, fishing and anything that involves death and destruction in general

JG
 
More Info about Me and Mississippi

It looks like I got you western boys shook up like a hornets nest. GOOD! Please note: The theme of my post was that the 10% cap is not fair. I never said that AZ residents should not have an advantage over NR int he draw. It is simple, the 10% limit was too restrictive and it came back and bite you in the A**.
I am just pointing out that,due to the very limited number of good (hunt 3003 for example) tags in AZ and the large (and growing) human population, the chance of drawing a AZ elk tag is very slim. Your odds are getting worse each year. The NR protion of the draw is not really keeping you from getting a tag. The problem in AZ is the # of residents applying for tags. The only way to consistenly have hunting opportunites is to hunt multiple states.

FYI: I did not draw in any of the 7 states that I applied. I now have 7 Elk bonus points in AZ. I am building points each year and I will eventually draw a tag. This all started when one of my buddies drew 3B early bull MZ tag in 1998. I helped him with his hunt, we drove out from MS and camped out. He took a 330 6x6 on the second day. Not bad for a couple of MS deer/turkey hunters. I was hooked. Hunting elk during the rut is like hunting an 800lb turkey with 6 foot horns, and he can smell you. Cool!!!! I have been on two bow hunts since then, one guided and one DIY. I really did not like the guided hunt because I did not feel like I was making the decisions about how to hunt. And the success or failure of the hunt was not in my hands.

I wish you all good luck and good hunting.

PS: a friend of mine from MS was drawn for late rifle in unit 10. It was his first year to apply in AZ. The same guy was draw this year for a early rifle hunt in WY (near yellowstone). Some guys have all the luck. go figure?
 
RE: Mississippi?

Mississippi,

Well I would like to know some of the fact and figures as well, but I can answer part of your question. As for local road projects (anything other than the interstate), I know for fact that they are funded exclusively by an excise tax on each gallon of gas that is purchased within the state. So...basically its a resident contribution. I'm not so sure that some of the interstate road projects are not funded the same way, only from commercial trucks who purchase fuel in Arizona.

Ghost Hunter
 
RE: More Info about Me and Mississippi

A question To non residents like Ole Mis there, What would be a fair and equitable percentage? I mean it's not like we got 3.1 million Elk and deer here, unlike other states. Im sure in Mississippi kids can hunt practically al year long, at least somethin has got to be in season. My daughter cant draw a COW tag in three years here, and were gonna make it harder?
I know whats next, the Cow tags are not affected right? Wrong, see third choices of alot of people are cow tags if they go through the process and dont get drawn for first or second they may get the cow tag and this pushes whoever is behind them in the draw further back and possibly without a tag.
New Mexico offers 10 percent period unless someone wnats to hunt with and outfitter. Hows this done..? Private land owners sell the tags to Outfitters. We only got about 2 percent private land here and alot of desert, shrinkling the Elk habitat to a small portion of the state. That don't translate into great big Elk herds. We have managed the state over the last two decades for the quality of animals we have now. Putting more tags into effect will have an impact on the herds that are already stresed because of poor public and court related inputs, like the ban on trapping.
I can forsee a future where the Elk here are the size of Colorado bulls only the herds are smaller as well, all due to the misguided folks who care only for themselves and whats goes into their wallet or on their or their clients wall.
One more Question In mississipi can I get a deer tag and if so can I hunt like ANYWHERE, I can just pull my truck off the side o the highway, pull my rifle out and hunt deer, or is there some private land issues I gotta deal with?
I aint sayin lets not let NR hunt AZ, because that Aint right period. But we gotta do with what we got and work around that first. The only reason people want to come and hunt here is because of teh trophy animals we have NOW. They weren't clamoring to hunt here in the 70's and early eighties. Except for maybe the Plateau which has been a trophy spot for decades. I mean let's call it what it is here and now.
Hey maybe after a few years of alot of tags being handed out our trophy quality animals will all be shot out and no one will want to come hunt here again.
Maybe we should just wait.
I like hunters, from anywhere I aint discouraging people to hunt here but we have to start somewhere and reach an agreement that is favorable to residents yet still allows folks from other states "an opportunity," to do the same. The lottery system is an Opportunity at that.
Ok My books done.
Bugler.
 
Generations? Hell, AZ was the Mexican state of Nuevo Mexico until 1848 or so, when it was purchased with FEDERAL dollars!!

Also, I would be curious how many hours each of the posters spend out in the national and state forests each year building roads, cutting firebreaks, planting foodplots, or whatever it is that you all claim to be working so hard at.

I would bet that there is a few truly dedicated AZ sportsmen that do a majority of the work, they are the ones that deserve preferential consideration.
 
AZDude- AFGD is funfed with approx. 40% federal money and the rest I beleive is mostly from license fees, not taxes. You never did answer the Q about how many hours you "volunteered" last year.
 
Rem, were you the lawyer for USO or what? You've been on this kick ever since you signed in. States do have rights you know. The feds don't control everything. They send money to help the states manage game as the STATE sees fit. Hell, Bush turned over a big part of federal land for the states to decide how the land will be used. The feds do not control the wildlife, and god help us if they did. A lot of us on here like to hunt out of state, and know that there's a price to pay for that. And we don't mind it, because we all like to hunt in our own states too. It's just like college tuition. State benefit residents first, even though state universities get federal money. If you have kids that go to college, I'm sure you won't complain that they get lower tuition than out-of-staters. Or would you rather they doubled your kids tuition so non-residents (who choose of their own free will to go to college out-of-state) can pay less? I'm sorry that you live in a crappy place with no hunting. Just be happy you have the opportunity and resources to hunt in other places. Move on to the next subject, please.
 
I donate money and am a part of the adopt a highway program every year in Northern AZ.

I also was involved in the Bocillas Ranch cleanup which directly benefited AZ sportman as well as non-resident sportmen for this area. It was a great event. Will gladly do it again in the future.

-AZDude
 
All states recieve Fedral Funding for each state's wildlife agency. Mississippi, Alaska, Hawaii, Florida, etc all recieved fedral monies. So that is really a wash. Arizona taxpayers dollars went to the Boston "waste-of-money" tunnel, the Salt Lake Freeway reconstruction, the Mississippi Freeway expansion, etc. It isn't as onesided as some Pro-NonRes want us to believe. All thing being equal, the residents of the states should have preference to hunt the animals which they own because they are members of that state "family".
 
These issues of Us vs Ya'll really chap my butt. Yes, I think drawing once every six years sucks. But what if you live in Louisiana and your Grandson lives in Phoenix, AZ what are you telling me, keep my butt in Louisiana because you were there first? Kiss My Butt! I make sure that I support this sport by participating in this sport and by contributing to Organizations like the RMEF. Now each state has something to offer everyone, either by producing resources that EACH of us use. Be it the Oil and Gas that my state sends all across this country or be it the time spent in your mountains hunting Elk. As a tax paying citizen of this great country, don't get the Idea that you are God ordained to be the only ones to hunt in your state. It is starting to be like an auction each year when the hunting phamplets come out, but if I wish to hunt I'll ante up and not one person has a right to say where I hunt if I draw the tag!
 
Stud, I agree with you. I've said numerous times that I love hunting out-of-state, and think everybody has the right to. I just think that higher NR fees are not a problem. By having higher NR fees, it keeps residnet fees low enough for the person that wants to put some meat in the freezer, or wants to be able to take his family hunting, and doesn't have a lot of money. When I go out of state to hunt, the tag fee is the lowest part of my expenses, and I really don't mind paying it. It's just funny to hear somebody that drew a primo elk tag (I won't name any names)and constantly complain over the price like a gun was held to his head.
 
Call it getting old or whatever you wish, but I like to hunt out of state for the following reasons: 1. Roadtrip, you get to get caught up on everyone's lives. 2. Taking someone hunting in an area that left to their own they never would have experienced. 3. The people I meet, I am a people person and have a great time I go out west. 4. It is about the only time I can truly get away from my business and enjoy what God gave to us ALL!
 
Drafts stud your a funny guy. I am biting my toungue as I write this down because I really don't think you have a clue.

I have family in the lafayette area and they are the biggest whiners when the price of crude goes up because they (Lousiana residents)lose jobs. So don't make that oil argument it just doesn't hold water. Everybody fights for what is near and dear to them. In this case it is Zonies wanting to hunt in their home state. I would never begrudge anyone else the same opportunity.

If you wanted to hunt with your grandson why not hunt in Louisiana? after all it is a "Sportsmans Paradise".

I don't remember any resident of Arizona saying that NR's should not be able to hunt in our state. All we are saying is NR's better not have same chance as drawing as an AZ resident.

I can tell you this, after going to both emergency meetings over the last week, there are going to be definate changes for next years draws. Myself and many other residents will be at every meeting to fight for "States Rights". Our #1 concern is the health of the herd #2 Hunting opportunities for AZ residents #3 preserving the hunting sports here in our home state #4 anything else.

The worse thing about this whole situation is the greed of just a couple of people will affect hunting for everyone, but the rich. It's a sad day when not only do we have to worry about the Anti's but now we have to fight off the greed in our own ranks.

Good day
John
 
"It's a sad day when not only do we have to worry about the Anti's but now we have to fight off the greed in our own ranks."

John, that is the most outstanding quote I've seen on here in a long time.
 
taxi- I am not a lawyer and i do not agree with USO's appraoch. However, the arguments that some of youe fellow residents make are absurd. From some saying that the feds never paid a dollar for land in AZ to saying that generations and generations of AZ citizens have managed the wildlife to bring it where it is today. It is obvious and understandable that AZ spoetsmen are frustrated and feeling threatened, but facts go much further than rumor.

I want to commend yopu on your attendance at the emergency meetings. You are most likely a really dedicated AZ outdoorsman. You are the only person that has posted that they attended both meetings. You certainly have my respect.

Peace.
 
Rem, you might have me confused. I am in NM, and did not attend the meetings.
I will agree to disagree with you on this matter, and drop it. We are looking at the same facts, and coming up with different conclusions. You will never convince me that NR should be on even ground with residents, and I am saying the from the standpoint of a resident, and non-resident hunter. And I will never convince you. So, good luck in your upcoming NM hunt (I am sorry but I have no useful info. on the unit you drew except there should be some oinkers in there).
 
From 2003 AFGD Annual Report:

Federal Revenue - $20.7 Million
Total Revenue from all sources $55.9 Million
State of Arizona Contribution 63%

From 2003 United States IRS Revenue Report

Total Federal Income Taxpayers 222,271,428
Total Arizona Federal Taxpayers 3,500,000
1.5%

From 2003 United States IRS Revenue Report

Total Federal Tax Revenue $1,952,929,045,000
Total Federal Tax Revenue (AZ) 23,230,937,000

State of Arizona Federal Contribution 1.13%

According to my math, if you wanted things based on financial contribution of the State of Arizona's citizens to their own AFGD they would be entitled to approximately 64.13% of the available tags. That is equal to their 63% (which by the way includes $2,000,000 or 3.5% AFGD bugget in out of state non-resident license fees) plus their 1.13% contribution on the federal side. Round it up to say 75% for all the hard work and thousands of man hours it seems AZ hunters put in doing volunteering up in the mountains and 25% guaranteed for the other 219 MILLION of us. You get the picture, the financial argument doesn't hold water. AZ does not pay the lions share to manage and maintain the habitat. Also, the federal government long ago decided that state management of population and habitat would be in the best interest of the WILDLIFE not the citizens of a particular state. This was not really intended to to benefit any particular group of citizens, it was meant to protect the wildlife as I understand it.
 
Remsal, while I am happy you are here supporting wildlife, I ask you to call the 10th circuit and find out their most recent ruling in favor of Wyoming. Secondly you are using typical political speak to somewhat attempt to lean the masses into your viewpoint. Once again I mention that the above numbers do not include specific dollars from the 501-3c organizations that fund specific projects that benefit wildlife and not New office buildings etc... Included in any budget that could be moved the G&A budget if wills prevailed. There are numerous capital projects as defined by GAP that could be removed from the AZGFD's budget reducing projected expenditures and increasing the contribution percentage by residents but we are still debating a specific issue with AZ whereas I am concerned about the whole picture of wildlife in all states eventually. I believe if you re-search you will find many judges listen to "Resident preference" being crucial to sound State level Game Managment. There is precedence and without strong Resident involvement behind the scenes with State Game departments then the resource will suffer. Most state game managers will agree as well and by your own post the Federal Government believes the management of state game should come from the State level. With this in mind, do you think this decision which the preponderance of AZGFD managers dont agree with is the right thing? Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
" believe that professional guides should have to pay a substantial FEDERAL tax to guide hunters on federal land."


They do. The USFS takes a portion of their earnings in order to secure a special use permit.
 
Huntazido, I am glad you think of me as a funny guy, I do have a sense of humor, but I am not clueless. As I stated in a previous post, everyone has something to bring to the table in our day to day lives. Be it natural resources or the oportunity to hunt big game in a state out west. As for your kin in LaFayette whinning about the price of crude when it goes down, they have a right to whine, Gas is too cheap, why do you think we're in Iraq. And by the way can "States Rights" keep up your road system or your other Federal programs? No, and thats where you lost it. This is not about just one state, It is about the rights of everyone having a chance (not the right) to hunt here because I live here!
Right now all of AZ Hunters have a deep burn in their stomachs about what has taken place, but as I have read on many forums, ya'll are beating on the very ones that have helped support your G&F funding. Please come to Louisiana and enjoy, just don't think your stand is the only one to hold water. Have a Great Day! John.
 

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