14 days in 30 days.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5325138.pdf
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5325138.pdf
14 day camping WTH
- Thread starter buffalo
- Start date
utahbigbull
Active Member
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Rarely enforced but that is why if I am camping any longer than two weeks, it dosen't take much to move the trailer 100 feet or so down the road a week into it then you are in a new "AREA".
I can see thier point though. Go for a drive through Willow creek in Ephraim canyon and see how many trailers are sitting unoccupied in prime spots and then go back a month latter and see the same exact trailers taking the prime spots, STILL unoccupied! Kind of pisses a guy off making the three hour drive with his trailer down for a weekend trip to see all the best spots staked out for the summer.
I can see thier point though. Go for a drive through Willow creek in Ephraim canyon and see how many trailers are sitting unoccupied in prime spots and then go back a month latter and see the same exact trailers taking the prime spots, STILL unoccupied! Kind of pisses a guy off making the three hour drive with his trailer down for a weekend trip to see all the best spots staked out for the summer.
I just came back from 5 days of hunting. The Forest Service was in every camp every day, keeping a list. He said they are cracking down hard. You can't be in the same forest more than 14 days in a 30 day period. Moving camp spots even 10 miles does not work any more.
utahbigbull
Active Member
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- 868
Granted, you might not be allowed in the same "AREA" but they can not keep you from camping somewhere else on the mountain. A ton of people will be getting tickets by the time thier deer and elk hunts are over. Pretty pathetic if they issue citations if you utilize different areas of the mountain in that 30 day time span on public grounds!!
What mountain were you on that this guy was patrolling?
What mountain were you on that this guy was patrolling?
>Granted, you might not be allowed
>in the same "AREA" but
>they can not keep you
>from camping somewhere else on
>the mountain. A ton of
>people will be getting tickets
>by the time thier deer
>and elk hunts are over.
>Pretty pathetic if they issue
>citations if you utilize different
>areas of the mountain in
>that 30 day time span
>on public grounds!!
>
>What mountain were you on that
>this guy was patrolling?
+1
>in the same "AREA" but
>they can not keep you
>from camping somewhere else on
>the mountain. A ton of
>people will be getting tickets
>by the time thier deer
>and elk hunts are over.
>Pretty pathetic if they issue
>citations if you utilize different
>areas of the mountain in
>that 30 day time span
>on public grounds!!
>
>What mountain were you on that
>this guy was patrolling?
+1
I'd like to see the regulation in black & white where the guy said you couldn't camp in the same general area more than 14 days. It sounds like they are stretching things because I see no way they could legally keep a person from moving a few miles and setting up a new camp for another 14 day period. If that's what they are saying, I would call BS and get it in black & white because I'll bet they can't produce it. If they can, then that is a huge problem if they are telling a taxpayer they can't use THEIR public lands and it needs to be addressed and changed.
I have a friend from our gun club, that found a trailer "homesteaded" on the mountain in a campground for 3 weeks.
He and some other guys took pictures and then moved the whole mess down the hill a mile and set it all back up EXACTLY as they found it, "landscaped" the new area and left. They then moved in to the original site for the weekend.
The "homesteader" lives 200 miles away, but parks his rig in this same site for weeks, every year.
I thought it was funny............and fair.
".....but by God, I never said a word to a pig!"
He and some other guys took pictures and then moved the whole mess down the hill a mile and set it all back up EXACTLY as they found it, "landscaped" the new area and left. They then moved in to the original site for the weekend.
The "homesteader" lives 200 miles away, but parks his rig in this same site for weeks, every year.
I thought it was funny............and fair.
".....but by God, I never said a word to a pig!"
TOPGUN
This is what they are going by. Read it carefully. There is also a map that won't load.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5325138.pdf
This is what they are going by. Read it carefully. There is also a map that won't load.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5325138.pdf
>TOPGUN
>This is what they are going
>by. Read it carefully. There
>is also a map that
>won't load.
>http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5325138.pdf
The Forest Service has a reading comprehension problem. The rule was written to prevent someone from locking ONE spot for the season. They cannot prohibit you from using the National Forest. I would continue to hunt as normal (obeying the 14 day one spot rule) and if you are ticketed ask for a court trial. A judge will throw it out.
>This is what they are going
>by. Read it carefully. There
>is also a map that
>won't load.
>http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5325138.pdf
The Forest Service has a reading comprehension problem. The rule was written to prevent someone from locking ONE spot for the season. They cannot prohibit you from using the National Forest. I would continue to hunt as normal (obeying the 14 day one spot rule) and if you are ticketed ask for a court trial. A judge will throw it out.
T
two8E
Guest
2. No person, tent, camper, trailer, or other type mobile home may occupy any general undeveloped area of National Forest Land for more than fourteen (14) days in any thirty (30) day consecutive period. [36 CFR 261.58 a]
Undeveloped area, looks like it read how they explained it. Developed not so much.
Undeveloped area, looks like it read how they explained it. Developed not so much.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-11 AT 11:27AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-11 AT 10:25?AM (MST)
I just got off the phone with the PR lady for Brian Ferebee. He is supposed to return my call. She was well aware of the law. It is as says "if you camp 5 days on the forest then tow your trailer home. You can only come back and camp on forest land 9 more days in a 30 period. She said that they know it will cause problems with hunters, but they are going to enforce it anyway.
We better start the emails and calls.
Dedicated hunters and archery hunters i guess you real only get 14 days to hunt. WHAT!!
I just got off the phone with the PR lady for Brian Ferebee. He is supposed to return my call. She was well aware of the law. It is as says "if you camp 5 days on the forest then tow your trailer home. You can only come back and camp on forest land 9 more days in a 30 period. She said that they know it will cause problems with hunters, but they are going to enforce it anyway.
We better start the emails and calls.
Dedicated hunters and archery hunters i guess you real only get 14 days to hunt. WHAT!!
>What state is doing this
>?
...any State with a "green gestapo" facility.
The US Government is overloaded with those who like to sling their power and loose interpretation of the regulations, with no regard to common sense or individual circumstances.
".....but by God, I never said a word to a pig!"
>?
...any State with a "green gestapo" facility.
The US Government is overloaded with those who like to sling their power and loose interpretation of the regulations, with no regard to common sense or individual circumstances.
".....but by God, I never said a word to a pig!"
The intent of the Policy was probable created to not allow a individual(s) to occupy the best camping sites as has preciously stated.
The significant point in this Policy is in the wording: ?...may occupy any general undeveloped area of National Forest Land...? and more specifically the word ?area?.
A Forest Service agent/employee could interpret ?area? as to mean where you are currently camped and if you move your camp after 14 days down the road five miles where no one else is camped that would be acceptable under his/hers interpretation of the Policy. However, another Forest Service employee could interpret the Policy to include the entire National Forest area and write a citation for over camping the 14 days regardless of where you moved to.
The word ?area? does not state for example ?Manti National Forest? and therefore, you should not be prevented from going to another area withing that National Forest.
The Policy, if interpreted to mean the entire National Forest where you are camped is not a reasonable Policy and needs to be re-written to make sure one can move to another camp site within the same National Forest area whether it is one mile or 10 miles away without be given a citation.
Again, it's going to be a big problem based upon who has/is interpreted this Policy that went into effect on August 2, 2011.
The significant point in this Policy is in the wording: ?...may occupy any general undeveloped area of National Forest Land...? and more specifically the word ?area?.
A Forest Service agent/employee could interpret ?area? as to mean where you are currently camped and if you move your camp after 14 days down the road five miles where no one else is camped that would be acceptable under his/hers interpretation of the Policy. However, another Forest Service employee could interpret the Policy to include the entire National Forest area and write a citation for over camping the 14 days regardless of where you moved to.
The word ?area? does not state for example ?Manti National Forest? and therefore, you should not be prevented from going to another area withing that National Forest.
The Policy, if interpreted to mean the entire National Forest where you are camped is not a reasonable Policy and needs to be re-written to make sure one can move to another camp site within the same National Forest area whether it is one mile or 10 miles away without be given a citation.
Again, it's going to be a big problem based upon who has/is interpreted this Policy that went into effect on August 2, 2011.
B
BigMedicine
Guest
Look for nearby BLM or state school trust lands sections and rotate them into your mix.
FS is incorrectly intepreting the rule if they say an "area" is the entire forest. Let em write you and fight it or just pay the ticket if it isn't too much.
I do however agree that selfish jerks that park a trailer in a prime spot all summer/fall need cracked down on.
FS is incorrectly intepreting the rule if they say an "area" is the entire forest. Let em write you and fight it or just pay the ticket if it isn't too much.
I do however agree that selfish jerks that park a trailer in a prime spot all summer/fall need cracked down on.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-11 AT 12:26PM (MST)[p]brymoore---You are right on the button with your comments. The Reg. is written exactly as I thought it probably was with the exception that the second paragraph lacks the word "consecutive". Whether this is a misprint, or what the Forest Supervisor actually wanted enforced are two different things that need to be addressed with him ASAP. It's ironic that the entire summer basically went by and now with the hunting seasons starting this was written only 3 weeks ago! Anybody out in the field that is saying it's a 14 day max within a 30 day period even though the unit is removed or taken to another spot is obviously going EXACTLY the way the thing is written for undeveloped areas, rather than the real reason for making any kind of order. I'd just make sure that I had photos with the date and time on each photo showing exactly where the camp is set up. When the 14 days is up then move it a mile or two and document that again. If a ticket is written for what one of those field people says is a violation, take it to court and a sharp, make that even a dull, lawyer should get it thrown out in a heartbeat. Those goons are obviously trying to stretch the intent of the order and someone needs to get burned for it, even though the Reg. was written to stop abuses. This is just another example of Feds thinking they are God almighty!
MaineFlatlander
Active Member
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- 311
If they wanted to get technical the order says "no person, tent......." so by that wording no "person" would be allowed to be in an undeveloped area for more than 14 days in a thirty day period even if not camping..............
At this point the state just said it's a fed thing. So be ready. If you have a hunting tag in these areas. They ARE keeping track. You can only Camp on U.S. Forest land a TOTAL of 14 days in a 30 day period. Then you HAVE TO "LEAVE THE FOREST" NOT JUST MOVE CAMP. $25. Per person, per day fine.
If you go camping 3 trips to 3 different camp sites for 5 days each, in one month you are in violation.
They are driving threw every site every day and keeping a record of each vehicle and tent. They are really out to enforce this new (as of Aug. 2) law.
If you go camping 3 trips to 3 different camp sites for 5 days each, in one month you are in violation.
They are driving threw every site every day and keeping a record of each vehicle and tent. They are really out to enforce this new (as of Aug. 2) law.
i think you guys are getting worked up over nothing. This is the same rule that has been in place on most Forests for years. It only means that you cannot camp in one camping spot for more than 14 consecutive days. There are some folks within the Forest Service that tend to over interpret the regulation, but that is just what it is misinterpretetion. I guarantee that if you get the Forest Supervisor of the Wasatch/Cache NF on the phone that he will verify that it is only meant as 14 consecutive stay in one spot. Unfortunately talkng to a receptionist on the phone does not always provide you with accurate info.
Also, not sure where the discussion about the State came in with some of the posts above. The State has nothing to do with regulating camping on National Forests. It is solely the authority of the Forest Service (federal agency).
Anyway, I wouldn't be sweating it for the hunt.
Also, not sure where the discussion about the State came in with some of the posts above. The State has nothing to do with regulating camping on National Forests. It is solely the authority of the Forest Service (federal agency).
Anyway, I wouldn't be sweating it for the hunt.
So now you're telling us this dufus has ordered that noone can even step in any of "HIS" Forests more than 14 days in a 30 day period? If that's what he's saying, he won't last long in that job because there should be a court case instituted against him personally for signing that order and telling those under him to enforce anything besides camping under that order! There is no way one person can keep anyone from recreating on Federal land for any set amount of time. That order needs to be forwarded to the higher ups in the USFS in DC and it will be overturned in a heartbeat! This is so ridiculous I can't believe anyone would even think that they could control Federal lands like you are saying he is going to try and do.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-11 AT 04:30PM (MST)[p]At least "TOPGUN" is starting to understand what this old Buffalo is trying to say. That is why I have been emailing and calling every rep. I can think of the last few days. It is starting to look to me like the anti's at work. They flat out say that they knew it would disturb some hunts.
I would hope it could be rectified ASAP, but I would keep right on hunting the season if I had plans for longer than 14 days and let them find me and give me a ticket. There is no way that ticket wouldn't be laughed at and dismissed by any Judge when it is taken to court. This order would be like if they wrote one saying a person could only visit Yellowstone one time a year for X amount of days, LOL! The guy should rewrite the order because he's nuts if he thinks he can keep people off the Forest that aren't even camping and that's what this rule was written for and now seems as it's being extended to see what they can get away with!
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,593
A few years back we were walking off the mtn down to a road where we have met up for years. As we came out the tree police stopped us and ticketed us for being on a closed road. It was not marked as closed, no rocks or logs downed, and the cattlemen had hauled in salt on it all summer but we were ticketed anyway. On a side note they also got the sheepherders for crossing a meadow as they were frantically trying to get off the mtn with a big snow storm rolling in. A local lawyer was happy to take this to court(his brother was one of the sheep men) and the judge threw out the tickets and was visibly irritated with the tree police. Bet the same would be true with these tickets. By the way does that mean the states trapper camped on the mtn is breaking the law? How about the loggers? How about the forest inventory guys? How about the livestock men?
When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
Buffalo,
The information you have been given is 100% INCORRECT!!!!!! Sounds like you were talking to an OVER ZEALOUS Forest Service Employee. That employee is up in the NIGHT!! In fact I would report him if I were you for giving out such false information.
Again, the regulation states that you cannot camp in the same spot for more than 14 consecutive days. That means that you can camp in one spot for 14 days, then move your camp down the road a mile or so and camp there for another 14 days, then move your camp around the corner and camp there for antoher 14 days. You can camp on the same Forest for 365 days a year as long as you move your camp to a different location every 14 days.
You need to relax, and then go report this guy to the District Ranger or the Forest Supervisor. Again, the information you were given is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!
The information you have been given is 100% INCORRECT!!!!!! Sounds like you were talking to an OVER ZEALOUS Forest Service Employee. That employee is up in the NIGHT!! In fact I would report him if I were you for giving out such false information.
Again, the regulation states that you cannot camp in the same spot for more than 14 consecutive days. That means that you can camp in one spot for 14 days, then move your camp down the road a mile or so and camp there for another 14 days, then move your camp around the corner and camp there for antoher 14 days. You can camp on the same Forest for 365 days a year as long as you move your camp to a different location every 14 days.
You need to relax, and then go report this guy to the District Ranger or the Forest Supervisor. Again, the information you were given is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!
Buffalo,
Something else. You said you talked to the guy who wrote the order. So did you talk the the Forest Supervisor, Brian Fairbee? He is the one who would have signed the order. Someone may have actually wrote it and then he would have signed it. However, the order comes from him as the Forest Supervisor. He is the guy you need to talk to. Or one of the District Rangers should know the scoop as well. When I say District Ranger, I don't mean a wilderness ranger. The District Ranger is the head cheese over the entire District. The Forest Supervisor is the head cheese over the entire Forest (encompassing all the Districts). As I said before, I guarantee that the Forest Supervisor (Brian Fairbee) did not sign an order that stated what you describe. In fact the order that was posted on this thread DOES NOT say what you describe. It merely restates the 14 consecutive day regulation that has been in place for years. It does not say anything about what you said the guy told you.
Again, you have been given wrong information.
Something else. You said you talked to the guy who wrote the order. So did you talk the the Forest Supervisor, Brian Fairbee? He is the one who would have signed the order. Someone may have actually wrote it and then he would have signed it. However, the order comes from him as the Forest Supervisor. He is the guy you need to talk to. Or one of the District Rangers should know the scoop as well. When I say District Ranger, I don't mean a wilderness ranger. The District Ranger is the head cheese over the entire District. The Forest Supervisor is the head cheese over the entire Forest (encompassing all the Districts). As I said before, I guarantee that the Forest Supervisor (Brian Fairbee) did not sign an order that stated what you describe. In fact the order that was posted on this thread DOES NOT say what you describe. It merely restates the 14 consecutive day regulation that has been in place for years. It does not say anything about what you said the guy told you.
Again, you have been given wrong information.
Buffalo,
Believe it or not, there are people that may know more about something than you do. The Forest Service and Forest Service Regs/Policies are something that I know quite a bit about. I deal with Forest Service Policy/Regs day in and day out, five days a week, and sometimes more.
I was only trying to help you out. You seemed pretty worried about the 14 day reg. I would be too, if I got the same info you did and didn't know any better. The interpetation of the 14 day camping regulation that you got is ridiculous and absolutely false.
Anyway, good luck to ya.
Believe it or not, there are people that may know more about something than you do. The Forest Service and Forest Service Regs/Policies are something that I know quite a bit about. I deal with Forest Service Policy/Regs day in and day out, five days a week, and sometimes more.
I was only trying to help you out. You seemed pretty worried about the 14 day reg. I would be too, if I got the same info you did and didn't know any better. The interpetation of the 14 day camping regulation that you got is ridiculous and absolutely false.
Anyway, good luck to ya.
