Camera Land - The Place to Buy Optics

15x56s vs Spotter

BGbasbhat

BGbasbhat

Very Active Member
Messages
1,067
Seems as though this topic has come up a bit lately...I'd like to toss in my 2 cents.....discussion/opinions/debates welcome.

I just got back from helping my buddy on his archery lope hunt in AZ. For 4 days I was sitting on a hill glassing the wide open prairie, from sunup to sundown. I'm tired, dehydrated, and sunburnt...but I have a lope tenderloin in the freezer right now, I'll post pics later..:)
Anyway, I was using Swaro 15x56s, a Swaro 20-60x85 spotter, and a Monfrotto tripod.

By far, I used the 15x56s the most. The objective was the most proportionate to the zoom, they were easier to use/handle, and the use of both eyes was very comfortable. I could easily glass anywhere from 50 yards to 2-3 miles, with exceptional detail. At the longer distances, I could easily differentiate buck from doe, bigger from smaller, facing to or away, bedded or alert. I think for the average hunter, these situations would suffice for 95% of your hunting needs.

The spotter was solely used when bucks were considerably far away, or if I was trying to judge horn character. When I was using them for target capture, I had to use so much magnification, the heat waves would disallow any kind of detail depiction. Plus, the animals were so far away at this magnification, we didn't want to go after them anyway...

The spotter had its niche; but I honestly couldn't stand using 1 eye. I switched eyes from time to time; but eye dominance is always an issue, so I used my right eye the majority of the time. After a long session of scope usage, my right eye was noticably tired and unable to focus as quickly. Maybe they'll get used to the strain; but I was just much more comfortable using the binos.

All in all, both optics are great for their purpose. However, for the average joe just trying to fill a tag, and not count how many kickers or whiskers an animal has, I think the 15x56s get my vote. I think a spotter would be ideal for trophy judging, or extreme long range and low heat (due to the mirage) spotting. If you're hunting inside of 3 miles for a nice buck, some 15s would fit the bill.....in my opinion....

Hope this might open up a discussion. All these things cost alot of $$$, so the more opinions the better for the educated buyer!!



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
+1

I can glass for long periods of time behind my 15x swaros. Not so with any spotter, swaro, leica or whatever. I had a more expensive spotter and sold it. The one eyed jack thing just gives me headaches. And I love the 15x's. Many times it is more than enough when mounted on a tripod to show the detail needed.

However, I when I think I might need a spotter to check things out that are a little further out, I've been throwing in the little Nikon ED50 spotter. Really it doesn't get used much but that's the point. It's small and light enough that I can put it in the pack anyway and then only take it out when I feel like I have to dial it down a bit.

I think it's a great system.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-09 AT 09:32AM (MST)[p]I have to completely agree with the two eye and heat mirage thing. That is why I don't have a spotter, and have never been very happy with those I have had, or have been able to use. Higher quality does not solve the eye strain issue, or defeat mirage. Help it maybe.

The first chance I had with a "Big Eye" binocular was to look through someones older Fujinon 15x60 on a tripod. While the Fuji is by now a few ticks in coating technology behind the times (discontinued as well) I made the observation that 15x with both eyes is worth 20x+ with just one.

There will always be situations where a spotter will have its uses, and certainly there are individual hunt styles and techniques that will always give the spotter perhaps a predominate place in "Look Long Optics". The trick is to get the best for you. YMMV
 
BG,

That is probably the most informative post I have read in this
forum (and there have been some great threads/advice).

I have zero experience using 15X swaro's with a tripod. However, it sounds like a great glassing technique and also
sounds like a the next best option from my 10X42's.

I am beginning to believe that my next optic purchase will be
the 15X binos and tripod. I will still probably keep my spotting scope, but the bino option seems like it could replace
a lot of what my spotting scope accomplishes.
 
Thanks for the replies fellas. Honestly, I think I spent more time behind glass the last 4 days, than I have in my whole life.

dryfly, that little Nikon 50 is a great little scope. Honestly, if I do ever get a spotter, it would be something in that realm. I suppose my ideal would be a 15-40x85; but I'm not sure if that exists.

SteveC, you make a great point about the mirage issue. I've heard this was a problem with high magnification and temperatures. It was around 90 during the day, and anything over 30x had considerable mirage issues. During early morning the mirage was non-existant; but as soon as the sun peaked, and warmed things up, everything went squiggly.

Thanks woodruff, I'm glad I could throw in my review. Like I said, most of us aren't hunting for a world record. I figured that within 3 miles, I can see if a buck is a shooter or not with the 15x56s and a tripod. If he has kickers/trash/extras when I get up to him, sweet. If he's past 3 miles, then get out of the damn truck and hike to him!!

For the average hunter, I just don't think a large spotter is really needed.








"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
This topic has certainly been kicked around a bit lately on various forumns. I have not had the chance to use 15x binoculars. My current setup is a pair of 10x42 SLC binoculars and a 65mm ATS spotter with 20-60x eye piece.

On my last couple of scouting/hunting trips I have tried to notice how much I used the spotting scope and how a pair of 15x binoculars might replace them. I simply cannot wrap my mind and experience around how a pair of 15x binoculars would replace a spotter, at least in my setup and glassing method. I am always cranking the scope up to 40 or 60x to see whether that root or branch is a horn, etc. I do not think a pair of 15x would be able to perform that task. I also like to pick apart likely bedding areas apart, piece by piece, with my scope at high power.

I would agree with the eye strain issue for new or infrequent users. It has been my experience that some practice and technique will eliminate most if not all problems related to eye strain with a scope. In addition, when I glass my 10x binoculars, which I sometimes mount to a tripod, do probably 75% of the work. I only use the spotter to pick apart the likely areas, or determine if a buck is worth the chase.
 
I use 3 pieces of glass. 8x32 Slc's around my neck all the time. 15x56 slc's on a tripod. 65mm HD Swaro spotter. I have never found game with my spotter I couldn't have found with my 15's. I still use the spotter to judge, but nothing and I mean nothing finds game like the 15's. For me they are just the right mix of field of view and clarity. I'm sure that these must fit my "eyes" well also. I guess if you are looking for deer in bushes over 3 miles, then... but not elk.
 
Woodruffhunter,
Even your 10x on a tripod will serve you immeasurably better than elbows rested on knees. Having a rock-dead FOV will let you see ear and tail flicks much easier at the longer distances. Don't wait to save $ to get the 15x before you get a tripod to put your 10x atop.

RR

CopyofSedona1-2509034.jpg
 
>Woodruffhunter,
>Even your 10x on a tripod
>will serve you immeasurably better
>than elbows rested on knees.
> Having a rock-dead FOV
>will let you see ear
>and tail flicks much easier
>at the longer distances.
>Don't wait to save $
>to get the 15x before
>you get a tripod to
>put your 10x atop.
>
>RR
>
>
CopyofSedona1-2509034.jpg



Great advice, I have the Manfrotto 718B tripod and have used it with my 10x Nikons, and my 12x50 Steiners. You can find the tripod for less than $100.00 all over the net.

--Bill
 
rradams, you bring up a very good point. I suppose my realization came when I was glassing the open prairie, and not the a high country hillside, etc.

The situation of picking out an antler from some branches is a very valid argument for a spotting scope.

I would raise a couple of questions though.... I know it's relative; but do you believe a $2k spotting scope is worth few times you don't watch that big buck go to bed? I would charge that the majority of the time, I watch a buck go to bed, and know about exactly where he is. If I'm picking out an antler vs a stick I'm usually too close to use a scope (i.e. during a stalk).

Nevertheless, I hadn't thought of this aspect of extremely detailed glassing, and it definitely is a check in the advantage column of a spotter.

I've read a few articles about glassing techniques; but would you care to share any? Do you switch eyes? Hold close or farther? Use a patch (insert pirate joke here)?



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
I spend a fair amount of time picking likely bedding areas apart with my scope. I hunt the same areas frequently and know the likely spots to find deer. During the higher pressure times of the year, the more experienced bucks will often bed before useable light; so this process can be of benifit.

As for techniques I have found a few that work for me. The first is to use the scope on a regular basis and get used to it. I've been scouting on average once a week for the last 4 months and my eyes have adjusted accordingly. An eye patch is very helpful and allows you to keep both eyes open. I have noticed in my last few sessions a patch was no longer necessary. My eyes have "learned" and I can keep both eyes open, without a patch, and use my dominant eye over the scope. Also, wearing a wide brimmed hat, or placing a shirt over your head will help minimize stray light. Keep in mind that during my glassing only about 25% of the time is spent on the scope. The balance is used with binoculars.

As mentioned, I have not had the opportunity to use 15x binoculars. It sounds like each has its own merits. One thing I have noticed in following this and other threads is the common mention of heat waves and mirage as a limiting factor on scopes. And if I'm not mistaken, the "Big Eyes" concept came out of the southwest. Where and when I hunt and glass, these items in general have not been a limiting factor.
 
Doug is right. I remeber years ago I used to use shoe string's and tie my 10x leopold bino's to a tripod before all the gadgets came out. Two years ago I broke my Lieca 15x during a deer hunt and only had my swaro 10x. I switched my adaptor and glassed from a tripod. When I found a buck bedded down I used my spotter on him for evaluation. If all I had were 8 power I'd still put them on a tripod. I have preached to people till I'm blue in the face that if you put your binos on a tripod no matter what power or make your glassing will improve ten folds.
 
I wish I would have consistently used the optics forum years
ago!!! You guys have given me some great tips!!

Rabbit,

I am going to get a tripod for my 10 power SLC's. Can any of you make a suggestion? I would like to just order one on line.
Please give me some advice on what to get. Thanks again!!
 
>I wish I would have consistently
>used the optics forum years
>
>ago!!! You guys have given
>me some great tips!!
>
>Rabbit,
>
>I am going to get a
>tripod for my 10 power
>SLC's. Can any of
>you make a suggestion?
>I would like to just
>order one on line.
>Please give me some advice on
>what to get. Thanks
>again!!

For the price the Manfrotto 718b is hard to beat, similar to the Slik sprint pro. Both fit 10x binos good.

--Bill
 
Best Optics thread I've seen. Great ideas and very good analysis/observations. I'll put my 2 cents in after I get back from a LE elk hunt starting next week. Got a brand new set of 15x56s and a HD 80mm ATS as well as my old 10x42s. They will all get some serious time of use, on and off the carbon fiber Manfrotto.
Had to take a new mortgage out on the house to do this, but hey....its hunting and like the ad says, it great for the soul.
 
>Best Optics thread I've seen.
>Great ideas and very good
>analysis/observations. I'll put my
>2 cents in after I
>get back from a LE
>elk hunt starting next week.
> Got a brand new
>set of 15x56s and a
>HD 80mm ATS as well
>as my old 10x42s.
>They will all get some
>serious time of use, on
>and off the carbon fiber
>Manfrotto.
>Had to take a new mortgage
>out on the house to
>do this, but hey....its hunting
>and like the ad says,
>it great for the soul.
>


You only live once and you can't take anything with you when you go, so make the most of this ride!...
 
i have both and i use both. if im spending hours looking at GREAT distances, then id use the 15'on a tripod because i dont like to look through a spotter for long periods of time. i use it to really look an animal over that has already been spotted with the binos. expensive, but if you can do it, get both. they are just tools and every tool has its special job.

Travis
www.RidgelineOutdoors.com
Blacks-Creek Packs Dealer
 
>I am going to get a
>tripod for my 10 power
>SLC's. Can any of
>you make a suggestion?
>I would like to just
>order one on line.
>Please give me some advice on
>what to get. Thanks
>again!!

If you are looking for a lightweight inexpensive tripod, I would consider the Velbon Luxi over the Slik Sprint Pro, as i found the Slik Sprint Pro's legs to be too flexible.

Aluminum tripods that are reasonable in cost are the Slik AMT, Velbon Sherpa, Vortex High Country, and Manfrotto 190.

For more $ you can go carbon or Outdoorsmans on a tripod.
Be sure to get one with adjustable leg angles.
Some people prefer to glass while standing, so consider height if you do stand. This will require a heavier/stiffer tripod though. Get the height needed with the legs and not the center column extended as the extended center column will flex and vibrate more.

For a nice, smooth, light pan head, consider the Manfrotto 700 RC2. For more money than the 700RC2, there is the Jim White head and the Outdoorsmans.
The pistol grip of choice is the Outdoorsmans. Couple it with the Jim White panning attachment.

A website like Adorama or BHphotovideo will give good descriptions of tripod legs and heads.


CopyofSedona1-2509034.jpg
 
Great tips rradams. Like I said, I am still somewhat new to spending that much time behind glass, so I had a feeling my lack of experience caused the eye fatigue. Thanks for the technique with the patch and eliminating extraneous light.

RR, great advice on tripods. I've always been a ?rest on the knees? glasser, since I usually don't sit for long. The Monfrotto tripod (can't remember the model #) I used was a bit bulky; but really made glassing comfortable. It was rock solid and movement was super smooth. The tripod also allowed me to switch sitting positions, which was frequent during the 14 hours of glassing a day.
By the way RR, those pictures of Sedona are great. I remember you posted one in the Photo forum with a yucca or agave and snow, which was just awesome.

LowCountryElk ? Good luck on your hunt man. You have the whole spectrum of glass, and a different hunting situation, so we'll all appreciate your review and experience. And post up some picks of your bull too!!!

Orion23 ? As you said, ?..if you can do it, get both??; but if you could just choose one, would you go with the 15x56s or the spotter?




"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
BG

I agree with your OP. My brother and I have had this discussion/argument for years. He is extremely effective with his spotting scope and is willing to carry it in addition to his Zeiss 15x60s. I am neither good with the scope or willing to hump the extra gear.

Except for certain situations I prefer the Swaro 15s and a doubler if I really need to get in close for detail. I hate to use one eye and the spotter seems to cause me to spend more time looking beyond my effective "get to him" range.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
As I have mentioned earlier I love my 15x swaro's and have considered using the doubler for backcountry, but I have purchased a doubler and the clarity just wasn't even decent so I got rid of it. How many other than Wade do this when they hunt?
 
As I have gotten older and seem to be still hiking as far as I used to, I am getting more and more into light weight,(not me but my gear)
A real nice lightweight tripod is the 714shb. It is not near as sturdy as the heavyweights, but I will carry it when I might not have taken one of the heaver bulky ones.
 
LMAO, sounds like most people here go golfing with one club in there bag, theres a time and situation that calls for different optics and usage.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09 AT 08:52AM (MST)[p]Understood flea_bitten...

Sure, it'd be ideal to have a full bag of clubs; but if your carrying 36 holes, you might want to leave the hybrids, sand/gap wedges, and woods at home.
If you are driving a cart for the course, then by all means bring all the clubs you want; but I wouldn't want to carry them all day long.

We aint Tiger Woods man! We're those guys smokin cigars and chasing the beer girl around the course!!

Carrying some 10x42s, 15x56s, and a 20-60x80 is about 7.25lbs. If you can cut 3 pounds off by leaving your spotter at home, and still be able to see 98% of everything you want, then why not?


"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
>theres a
>time and situation that calls
>for different optics and usage.
>

That I think sums it up well. I won't be giving up my spotter any time soon as it is the best fit for my needs. And the 15x binoculars have certainly proven their worth in certain applications as well.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-09
>AT 08:52?AM (MST)
>
>Understood flea_bitten...
>
>Sure, it'd be ideal to have
>a full bag of clubs;
>but if your carrying 36
>holes, you might want to
>leave the hybrids, sand/gap wedges,
>and woods at home.
>If you are driving a cart
>for the course, then by
>all means bring all the
>clubs you want; but I
>wouldn't want to carry them
>all day long.
>
>We aint Tiger Woods man! We're
>those guys smokin cigars and
>chasing the beer girl around
>the course!!
>
>Carrying some 10x42s, 15x56s, and a
>20-60x80 is about 7.25lbs. If
>you can cut 3 pounds
>off by leaving your spotter
>at home, and still be
>able to see 98% of
>everything you want, then why
>not?
>
>
>"...I'd rather be tried by twelve
>than carried by six..."


Here's how you carry all three of 'em.....get your stud 21 year old son to join you on the hunt and carry the heavy stuff!!! Bonus .... he can do the heavy lifting when you pack out the Mac Daddy. I'll let you all know how it goes.......
 
I posted this on another forum today as I didn't realize this topic was taking place over here too. Just another way of looking at things I guess.

I guess I'm a black sheep here. I've tried big eyes (Swaro 15X56) on a tripod vs. my 10X42 SLCs and a spotting scope and found no reason at all to switch over to a set of big eyes.

Why? A couple reasons:

1)First many of the animals I hunt up here have antler requirements in order to be legal. I'm not a trophy hunting per say as I'll take the bigger of two animals standing side by side. But unlike most deer hunting, just having antlers or horns isn't enough to make most animals up here in AK legal. Being able to look over antler configuration at distances is often required even as a meat hunter.

For Example: Moose often have to have 3 or 4 brow tines on one side to be legal. Often times even at 15X on my Ziess Diascope 65mm I can't tell until I crank up the power and then really began to count tines up to 2 miles away. Which is VERY helpful rather than having to trudge threw 2 miles of swamp and alders and hope the moose is still around to get a better look.

Sheep hunting. Its gotta be full curl on one side. There is a sheep 2 miles away or so. You can't tell me that you could accurately guessimate sheep at that range with a pair of 15X big eyes. 60X spotter is VERY nice in this instance as well. Especially when you are sitting at 5,000 ft and there is a valley down to 2,000 feet, then 2 miles of hiking and then you gotta get back up to 5,000 ft again just cause you gotta get a closer look cause all you have is 15X binos? The added weight of a spotter and bino combo is worth it in these cases as the extra 3 lbs of a spotter seems reasonable when that much hiking is required to decide if a animal is even legal.

2) I will admit that free hand or standing glassing my 10X42 swaro binos gets tiresome after just a few minutes. However, when I am glassing rarely am I standing. Rather sitting down with my forearms on my knees and my back up against a hill, tree, or rock. Its comfy as hell and I glass like that for hours. Much more comfy I thought than sitting in front of and leaning into a tripod looking through either a spotter or the pair of big eyes. As you have to rotate your head around the tripod as you swivel the tripod. With the binos in hand you just swivel your head and binos. Yes not as steady, but the ability of comfortably sit there and glass in a relaxed position for an extended period of time is a great plus to me atleast. Still see game just fine despite using my binos sans tripod. Binos on my knees its pretty steady. Also the FOV with regular binos vs. a pair of big eyes is more as well.

To each their own. Just sharing my experince after comparing a set of big eyes to a regular bino/spotter combo for my style hunting. Best to go with works best for you.

Good hunting everyone.
 
Great post Alaska_lanche

You brought up a couple perfect benefits for a spotting scope. You are very correct about needing a scope for not only trophy judging; but for legal shooting purposes also. I had forgotten about having to count how many growth rings on a ram, or brow tines on a moose. I suppose my environment is different, in that if it looks big, then go ahead and shoot it! Who knows maybe one day in 30 years I can get drawn for a sheep hunt!

Good point about resting your 10x42s on your knees. Like I said, I have always done this; but usually I don't have the luxury of a tree or a rock. Usually it's either a saguaro cactus or some gnarly desert thornbush. Since I don't usually get to lean on much, it gets shaky and uncomfortable pretty quick. Plus, I remember this past January with the wind cutting through me at 40 mph, I couldn't help but have the shivers?..makes holding anything tough.

All in all, great post. Thanks for the input.




"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
Like I said, there are situations where a spotter makes a lot of sense but for me, most of the time, my doubler does what I need it to do. It is not a substitute for a spotter when you really need one but it works for me and mine is clear as a bell.

I fought the tripod for a long time and when I finally relented it made all the difference. I can't hold a set of binos, especially anything higher than a 10x, steady long enough to do any really meaningful glassing regardless of body position.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-09 AT 01:49PM (MST)[p]Plus, I remember this
>past January with the wind
>cutting through me at 40
>mph, I couldn't help but
>have the shivers?..makes holding anything
>tough.
>
>All in all, great post. Thanks
>for the input.
>

Thanks for the kind words. Honestly I was expecting to get flamed for not agreeing with the masses. Glad you were able to see how my system with the standard bino/spotter setup has some merit for MY hunting purposes.

I noticed you had trouble holding the binos in the cold driving 40 mph wind. Chances are if the wind is blowing that hard than unless you got a heavy duty tripod for your binos then the tripod is probably gonna be even less steady than you using the binos on your knees. Just need some more layers. :D I wish you get success this hunting season. Good luck!

Oh and to hunt sheep in AK you don't need to draw a tag in a lot of areas. Just gotta hire a guide so come on up. :D Or if you wanna chase some black bears sometime give me a holler and we'll see if we can't get you on one.
 
No worries alaska_lanche. You and rradams have brought up some great arguments for a spotter. Exactly the points I, and any other potential buyer, would look for when trying to buy a $2k piece of equipment.
Listening to the other side of the story or from another aspect/situation is always beneficial in an open-minded discussion.

You?re right about having a heavy duty tri-pod for the high winds. I saw a couple ultralight tripods the other day that look like they would tip over if you sneezed on em. Yeah, I definitely needed more layers that day. Whoddathunk it would get that cold in the AZ desert?!?!?

I might have to take you up on that offer for the sheep, man would that be cool!! My dad and I booked a brown/black/bou hunt next September up in the Kilbuck Mts, outside of Bethel. It should be a hoot. Where abouts are you in AK?


"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
It doesn't have to be a $2K descion if you shop around and wait for a good deal. I got my Zeiss Diascope 65mm with the 15-45X eyepice for $850 brand new from sportmans warehouse. Got my 10X42 Swaros for $800 used. Granted these are the exceptions to the rule, but they are out there.

As for sheep, you gotta hire a guide if you are a non-resident. Which I am not a guide so the propistion is expensive $10K or more is often the going rate. However, beats holding out for 30 years waiting for a draw permit. My advice is to jump on the sheep hunt sooner than later as I imagine the whole state will be draw only within the next 5-10 years. All I can help ya hunt is moose, caribou, and black bears. Black bears probably being the easiest to chase. Just cost ya a plane ticket and maybe take me deer hunting some time. :D
 
Sounds good man. Yeah, I know there is some really good glass out there for less than $2k; but I just used that $ since everybody is so obsessed with Swarovski.

Thanks for the info on the hunts. I haven't had a chance to read much on AK regarding non-res hunts. But I have a feeling, after our hunt next year, AK could become an addiction!



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
just slip a ten or twenty in the jar every week or so and before you know it you would have enough money saved up.I know it worked for me.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Great post which comes up many times over and over and always nice to see all of the opiniions. I also have the Swaro 10x42's, 15x56's, and a 20x60x80 spotter. If I'm hunting from a truck or ATV I take all three with the 10x42's on my neck, 15x56's on a tripod and the spotter on a tripod. The 15x56's are deadly on a tripod and can be used for hours reducing eye strain. But you can put the 10x42's on a tripod and do almost as good of a job as the 15x56's. For the last few years I've done nothing but back pack or bivvy hunt and of course three sets of optics is too much to carry. So when I have to choose two items I choose the 10x42's with a tripod mount and the spotter. Like I said, the 10x42's are almost as effective as the 15x56's making the 15x56's just a middle man. I absolutely cannot and will not live without a spotter. Yes, I've spotted game with my spotter that could not be spotted with my 15's and when you spot game that is far away you want to know if you want to get closer. Sometimes you cannot tell how deep the tines are on a 24" buck with the 15's but a spotter is very effective even with heat waves out to 40 power. A deep forked 24" buck can sometimes be a 170" class buck making him pursuable. The same Buck that may have shallow forks may score 150". The spotter can tell you this. Also, there is no such thing as a deer being too far to pursue. If he is a giant buck I'm going after him period! I don't care if he's 5 miles away. The spotter allows you to cover a lot more country making you a more effective hunter. So I will have to respectfully disagree with a pair of 15's being able to take the place of a spotter. It just is not a long range tool like the spotter is. If I had to choose two items then I would choose the 10x42's and the spotter. And I am one of those people obsessed with Swarovski, or Leica or Zeiss. When I first got my Swaro's I couldn't tell a lot of difference between them and cheaper glass but after using them for several years I can plainly see the difference. There is definitely some great glass at cheaper prices and I owne some of them but there is a reason everybody compares all other glass to swarovski. Heck, I've been known to compare my truck to a cadillac but its just not the same thing. Quality glass is superior, unfortunatly its comes with a price. Anyhow, with my opinion being stated I must say that the 15's are sweet and are great when it comes to eye strain and are very effective to a certain range. Goodluck to all either way you wanna do it. fatrooster.
 
> you
>can put the 10x42's on
>a tripod and do almost
>as good of a job
>as the 15x56's.

As I currently own a pair of 10x42 binoculars, I have often wondered how much the 15x would do for me, beyond the obvious extra 5x. Now my 20-60x spotter on the other hand, and in the conditions I hunt, offers a significant and important increase in optical power.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-09 AT 01:18PM (MST)[p]>Great post which comes up many
>times over and over and
>always nice to see all
>of the opiniions. I also
>have the Swaro 10x42's, 15x56's,
>and a 20x60x80 spotter. If
>I'm hunting from a truck
>or ATV I take all
>three with the 10x42's on
>my neck, 15x56's on a
>tripod and the spotter on
>a tripod. The 15x56's are
>deadly on a tripod and
>can be used for hours
>reducing eye strain. But you
>can put the 10x42's on
>a tripod and do almost
>as good of a job
>as the 15x56's. For the
>last few years I've done
>nothing but back pack or
>bivvy hunt and of course
>three sets of optics is
>too much to carry. So
>when I have to choose
>two items I choose the
>10x42's with a tripod mount
>and the spotter. Like I
>said, the 10x42's are almost
>as effective as the 15x56's
>making the 15x56's just a
>middle man. I absolutely cannot
>and will not live without
>a spotter. Yes, I've spotted
>game with my spotter that
>could not be spotted with
>my 15's and when you
>spot game that is far
>away you want to know
>if you want to get
>closer. Sometimes you cannot tell
>how deep the tines are
>on a 24" buck with
>the 15's but a spotter
>is very effective even with
>heat waves out to 40
>power. A deep forked 24"
>buck can sometimes be a
>170" class buck making him
>pursuable. The same Buck that
>may have shallow forks may
>score 150". The spotter can
>tell you this. Also, there
>is no such thing as
>a deer being too far
>to pursue. If he is
>a giant buck I'm going
>after him period! I don't
>care if he's 5 miles
>away. The spotter allows you
>to cover a lot more
>country making you a more
>effective hunter. So I will
>have to respectfully disagree with
>a pair of 15's being
>able to take the place
>of a spotter. It just
>is not a long range
>tool like the spotter is.
>If I had to choose
>two items then I would
>choose the 10x42's and the
>spotter. And I am one
>of those people obsessed with
>Swarovski, or Leica or Zeiss.
>When I first got my
>Swaro's I couldn't tell a
>lot of difference between them
>and cheaper glass but after
>using them for several years
>I can plainly see the
>difference. There is definitely some
>great glass at cheaper prices
>and I owne some of
>them but there is a
>reason everybody compares all other
>glass to swarovski. Heck, I've
>been known to compare my
>truck to a cadillac but
>its just not the same
>thing. Quality glass is superior,
>unfortunatly its comes with a
>price. Anyhow, with my opinion
>being stated I must say
>that the 15's are sweet
>and are great when it
>comes to eye strain and
>are very effective to a
>certain range. Goodluck to all
>either way you wanna do
>it. fatrooster.


Fatrooster,

Sounds like we have a lot in common on how we go about picking the country apart. I have a feeling if I just had 15s I'd be wishing and kicking myself for not bringing my spotter. Thanks for your post as it probably better illustrates what I was trying to convey in post #27.

Thanks again
 
alaska, I have to agree with you that picking the country apart is something that the spotter is very good at. Many people rest in the middle of the day, including myself at times, but to continue hunting and specifically glassing under rock overhangs, trees, bushes and into any kind of shade is a great way to find midday bucks and the 15x56 is good at this. But everything that the 15x56's are good at, the spotter is just much better at doing. When animals are in the shade it is sometimes difficult to see and judge antlers but with a zoom power you can get that much closer to see the points even if they are blurry. So to sum up, a spotting scope is just to valuable of a tool to leave at home. fatrooster.
 
I agree a spotting scope definitely has it's place, but I've never had much luck using one to actually "spot" game. Mine usually only comes out after I've found something through my binocular that needs further inspection.
 
Im thinkin about gettin the swaro 15x56 binos. I currently hav 10x42 nikon monarchs. I can spot deer with them but im always having to look real hard to see if they have horns from long distances. I also hav a Leupold Sequoia spotting scope that I get out once I spot a deer. I hate the eyepiece on the Leupold. It moves in and out. I hunt in oregon right now but am plannin on hunting other states and possibly drawing a sheep tag here in oregon. So im thinkin of keepin my Nikon's for packin around in the west side of oregon and gettin the swaro's with the doubler and tripod for the east side where I deer hunt and gettin rid of the dang spotting scope. Is this a good Idea? Im just lookin for some advice. Swaro's are expensive but I think they are worth it?

Dave
 
Great post fatrooster.
You, among others, have brought up how close the 10x42s are to the 15x56s on a tripod. Considering I've always been a ?rest on the knees? guy, I am going to have to compare my 10x42s on a pod with the 15x56s.

All in all, I think rradams (which Alaska_lanche and fatrooster agreed) brought up the most pertinent point regarding a spotting scope. The ability of a spotter to really pick apart a hillside is a huge advantage. In my OP, I stated that the 15x56s could differentiate buck from doe, bigger from smaller, etc. This realization came when I was in the open prairie, hunting antelope. I didn't have any trees to investigate, or twigs to differentiate from antlers. Having said that, Alaska_lanche's example of confirming if you're looking at a legal ram, or a legal moose is very important too. Like a few have said, "different glass for different situations". For my antelope hunting example, I think 15x56s would definitely fit the bill. However, if picking apart a hillside at a few miles is your thing, then the spotter might be the ticket.

Conclusion:
15x56 Pros:
Better power to objective ratio.
Perfect for general glassing at moderate to long distances
Lighter and less bulky than a spotter
More user friendly

15x56 Cons:
Cannot attain exacting detail at moderate to long distances (i.e. growth rings on a ram, or antler tines under a tree)
Possibly comparable to 10x42s on a tripod

Spotter Pros:
Perfect for exact and detailed glassing from 500 yds to long distances
Enables a hunter to be more effective at any range
Can attain exacting detail all ranges (i.e. growth rings on a ram, or antler tines under a tree)

Spotter Cons:
Possibly bulky
Initially uncomfortable to use


?feel free to add any more!




"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
Foreman4x4 is a bigger optics man than I am and from what I've seen over the years knows more than I do about them. He prefers to spot with the 15x56's and I also like to spot with binoculars and a spotter. So you have two people who spend a lot of time behind glass but have different opinions. Neither of us is right and neither is wrong, its just what each of us are comfortable using and have become profficient at our glassing styles. So dfowler is asking if he is making a mistake by getting the 15x56's and my personal reply is "no", its not a mistake. But I feel that you can do more with the spotter because of the wider range of distances that it allows you to see. A pair of 15's is just that, a pair of 15's. I don't feel that there is a lot of difference between 10 power and 15 power and I think that 10 power is very effectice on the knees and even more so on a tripod. When I was looking at 15's I asked the question on this site of wether or not there was a big diff between 10's and 15's and I got the same answers that are being brought up on this post. I've had my 15's for four years and since I started bivvy hunting I barely use them and I've even pondered selling them. But the fact that I love them has kept me from selling them. If I had it to do over though, I would only have 10's and the spotter. So still my answer to buy 15's is not a mistake if it is right for you, but buying a lightweight quality spotter is a better choice.
Also dfowler, I had a guy hunting with me this year in Nevada who is from Washington and he had a pair of 10 power Leupold
Pinnacles and a small Leupold scope. He was very good at spotting with his 10 power bino's but could see that if he was going to hunt wide open states like Nevada, he needed a bigger better quality scope. You need the long distance sight that a scope offers in big country.
BGbasbhat, I would also add that under the pro's for the 15's that eyestrain is better or nonexisting. Two eyes are always better than one. A friend of mine just got the giant Kowa binoculars which looks like two spotting scopes side by side. I haven't had a chance to look through them yet but he says that they are out of this world. At 30 power he can see much more than he can with his swarovski hd spotter at 30 power. We don't quite understand that because 30 power is 30 power but maybe its the two eye thing. Or maybe Kowa has stepped up the quality in optics.
Thanks for the post. I know how it is when you want to buy a peice of equipment but are not sure which peice to buy. I always come to MM to get opinions of the people who use the gear. Sometimes it just gets down to going to the store and trying them out. In this case getting the spotter and the 15's side by side outside the store and comparing them. In feild comparisons are best but not always available. Thanks to eveeryone for the different view points. fatrooster.
 
>Im thinkin about gettin the swaro
>15x56 binos. I currently hav
>10x42 nikon monarchs. I can
>spot deer with them but
>im always having to look
>real hard to see if
>they have horns from long
>distances. I also hav a
>Leupold Sequoia spotting scope that
>I get out once I
>spot a deer. I hate
>the eyepiece on the Leupold.
>It moves in and out.
> I hunt in oregon
>right now but am plannin
>on hunting other states and
>possibly drawing a sheep tag
>here in oregon. So
>im thinkin of keepin my
>Nikon's for packin around in
>the west side of oregon
>and gettin the swaro's with
>the doubler and tripod for
>the east side where I
>deer hunt and gettin rid
>of the dang spotting scope.
> Is this a good
>Idea? Im just lookin
>for some advice. Swaro's
>are expensive but I think
>they are worth it?
>
>Dave


Dave,

Having spent a great deal of time behind both the same model spotter and binos you have this would be my suggestion. My buddy has the exact same pair of Nikon binos that you do. We swap sometime throughout our hunts and he looks through my Swaro 10X42s and I look through his Nikon Monarch 10X42s. There is an obvious difference yes. However the greater difference is in quality of the spotter. I have 4 spotters. A Swaro 20-60 by 80mm, Zeiss Diascope 15-45 by 65mm, Nikon XL II, and a Leupold Sequioa 15-45 by 50 mm. I recently bought the Nikon XL II to replace my Sequioa. The main purpose of this spotter was for a lightweight spotter and to leave at my cabin to one is always there to scope out the mountain around the area just for fun. Well it became quickly appparent that I'd be better off with my Swaro binos than the Sequioua spotter. So that spotter is now going to be for sale here shortly. The Nikon XL II is lighter, brighter, and crisper. Is it on par with the Swaro or Zeiss spotter? No, but leaps and bound better than the Leupold spotter. You can pick up a Nikon XL II for about $290 shipped to your door brand new. I highly reccomend it if you want a good quality spotter for a great price. However if you are already willing to throw down the coin for a set of Swaro 15-56s then maybe that may suit your purposes as well.

Another option would be to pick up some Minox 10X43 HGs for $580 from Doug and Cameraland. I bought my wife a set of these and honestly have spent hours behind both sets of glass back to back and can not tell a difference other than the Minoxs are a little lighter weight. Great binos for the money at less than half the price of the Swaros that give you the same picture. Yes I know the warranty isn't the same, but when you can by 2 for the price of one and get teh same quality I'll take my chances. :D Then I'd purchase a Leica spotter like this one:

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/site.pl?page=40109

All then you'd have a nice spotter and binos. But lots depends on how the binos fit your face, hunting style, and what your eyes percieve as the best. What matters most is what your eyes see? Lots of options out there, best to look through as much glass as you can in real field situations. Maybe the 15X56s will work the best or maybe teh spotter/bino combo would work best for you. Lots of $$$ to throw down to find out so I understand your wanting to do research, but at some point you'll have to jump in with both feet. Good luck in your quest and let us all know what ya end up with.

Good hunting
 
Another point I'd like to make is, if I had a mediocre 10x bino (Monarch, Wind River, Etc.), I'd upgrade them long before I ever thought about buying 15x's. I consider 15x's a specialty tool, but consider a good quality 8x or 10x a necessity. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd hunt with a $300.00 rifle/scope combo before I'd hunt with a cheap binocular, YMMV.

Another thing is, don't dicount used goods, as there's some real bargains to be had, and IMHO, used Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss trump new mid-range glass. Seriously, be patient and use a little common sense and you can find great glass for big savings. I'm into my Minox spotter w/21-42 LER eyepiece $200.00 and just recently picked up a NIB Vortex Kaibab 15x56 bino for $650.00.
 
Hey alaska_lanche, what made you pick the 15-45 Zeiss, over the 20-60? If I was to ever get a spotter, I would think a 15-45 might be able to cover what the 15x56s are good at.



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-09 AT 07:44PM (MST)[p]When I was a kid I used to carry electrical tape with me and tape my 7x Jason auto focus to my tripod head and glass for Hours on end for desert mule deer and desert sheep. I found alot game. When I was 14 yrs old I spotted and I stalked my first buck with my Jason's on my tripod. I spotted him bedded down at about a mile or so. I saw his ears flicker. I then cut the tape and put my Bushnell spotter on the tripod and confirmed he was a buck. I made my stalk and shot him. That was twenty years ago and I was all by myself no help from anybody. I would not have been able to make that spot if it had not been for my glasses on a tripod.

I guess my point is IF YOU PUT YOUR BINO'S ON A TRIPOD NO MATTER THE POWER OR MAKE, YOUR GLASSING WILL IMPROVE DRAMATICALLY!!!

I do use the spotter to judge sheep and my 15's to glass them up.All I use for elk is my 10x42 swaro's on a tripod of course and I leave the spotter in the truck.It doesn't take much to glass elk and tell if he's a toad or not. I use my 15'S when I hunt desert muledeer and if I can see the rack at 2+ miles he's big and I'm going after him, I don't need to judge him with a spotter. My philosophy is "IF I CAN'T MAKE OUT A GOOD RACK FROM 2 MILES OR MORE HE CAN LIVE ANOTHER DAY."
 
Well I bought the Zeiss Diascope from Sportmans Warehouse a year and half ago or better. They have these mispriced at several store locations around the country. Got a list and called several stores as soon as they opened and ordered over the phone with my credit card. It was the Zeiss Diascope 65mm with the 15-45 variable power eyepiece included for $850 shipped. Yeah they mispriced them. So just as foreman4X4 was saying the good deals for great glass come along often enough. I also go lucky and picked up my 10X42 Swaros on ebay for $800. Ideally I'd the 45X is nice, but there are times when the wind/heat waves/lighting are not an issue when I wish I had 60X like my buddy cause I'm greedy. But I can't justify the $2K on a Swaro 65mm 20-60X until I find the right deal. For now I'll stick with my diascope as it hasn't let me down yet. Honestly if I had to do it over again I would have rather saved the the extra $200 on my ebay Swaros and got the Minoxs as they are seriously just as good. That was a super long explanation sorry. Good luck in your search for your optics setup.
 
Great thread guys... lots of good info and ideas. While my Minox 15x58 are doing a good job, but the Leica 10-15x Duovid has me thinking. How many of you have used the Duovid on a tripod? Does the ability to switch from 10x to 15x help while in the field? Your comments will be appreciated! NJS
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-09 AT 11:20PM (MST)[p]I have used both of the Duovids extensively and they are very, very good. I loved the ability to go from 10 to 15 with just a couple of turns. Quick and easy. However, they are comparatively heavy, you suffer some loss of FOV and you are not getting the biggest objective there is on the upper power. They are a jack of all trades but a master of none.

Optically, they were outstanding and very much in the Alpha glass class.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
I chose to sell the Leica 10x50 and Minox 15x58 I carried for a single pair of 10+15 Duovids. As a result, one is not packing an extra pair of binos and their added weight, a savings of close to 3 pounds. Switching from 10 to 15x is as easy as turning two dials as opposed to removing and adding binos on the tripod.

Some people with narrow set eyes have found that they cannot use the 56mm Swaros but can use the 50mm Leicas as the tubes fold closer together. In a comparison, I figured the Swaros with the larger objective gave me about 2 minutes of extra light at the end of the day. If you spot a deer 3/4 mile away across a canyon or two, will those two extra minutes allow you to get there to shoot before it is too dark?

Resolution wise, I found the Swaro to have a very slight edge over the Duovids. I prefered the color cast of the Duovids, they being a more natural tone.

CopyofSedona1-2509034.jpg
 
Right on alaska_lanche. So, how do you like the performance of that Diascope compared to your buddy's 20-60 (Swaro?)?

But you're righ though, there are some deals to be had, if you keep your eyes open.



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
Great writeup maddglasser

A tripod for my 10x42s has definitely crept up to the top of my gear list. In my OP, when I was glassing with all my buddy's gear, the tripod made glassing almost enjoyable.
Good point on the "if I can see his rack at 2 miles, he's good".
But as others have mentioned, what about picking apart some scrubby hillside at a mile or two away? Do you find you can do this with your 15s for desert mulies?



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
BG, absolutly. I find probably 50% of my deer at 1.5-2.5 miles away bedded down with my 15x docter binos. The other 50% are up moving around any where from 1 mile to about 4 miles. I usually find the tallest mountain climb to the top and make myself a home up there. 90% of the deer I find are in the flatter low country on the desert floor. I very rarely find them in the hilly stuff.

I will sometimes use a spotter to confirm if its a buck or not because most of the time all I may see is something that looks like a face or an outline of a deer in the shadows or an ear flicker, I have found alot of them by them just shaking their heads.
 
I have both but if i could only have 1 it would be my 15x56 SLC's. I carry the doubler and agree that the clarity sucks. That said, it doesn't weigh much and can give you that little bit of extra magnification when needed. I absolutely love my 15's!!
 
Thanks maddglasser. I've seen the bucks and sheep you pull out of the desert, here in AZ, and your opinion is definitely something to take into account.





"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
I haven't heard of it yet; but I like the clarity in those pictures. Price?




"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
Back from my Utah bowhunt. Great hunt, got a nice bull and got to use all three of my glasses a LOT. I am in love with the 15x56s on the tripod; absolutely the best and most thorough way to spot and dissect country out to about 2 miles and you can see great detail on any antlers. But they are tough to carry and use on the run; too heavy and powerful to hold steady for any length of time (at least for a wimp like me), especially if you are on the run trying to close on an animal. Leave any hunting/stalking activity to the 10x42s; they are perfect for the job and still powerful enough to spot with if needed, but are no match for the 15s on a tripod or well rested against a rock or on your knees. Finally, the 20-60x80mm ATS spotter is super for the really long range stuff or if you really need to analyze the antlers/horns. FYI, my guide had the new 65mm HD spotter and it was as clear and bright as my 1 yr old 80mm HD; I'd go with it if I had to do it again; both are really impressive glass. Not at all unhappy with the 80mm though and it definitely has its use and everyone should be fortunate enough to get one for detailed work. Finally, I had (stress had) the Manfrotto 190CXPro3 carbon fibre tripod with 700RC2 composite video head and its light weight, smoothness and rock steadiness impressed everyone I hunted with, especially my guide. He wanted to buy it on the spot as it was easily a third the weight of his older lead/steel/aluminum/whatever model. I was such a softie, and he did such a great job as always, that I just kinda left it in his truck. That's my 2 cents.........
 

Similar threads

buckhunter64
need help getting clear pics with a spotter
Replies
6
Views
305
boomer
boomer
Platemaker4312
Leupold 15x56 BX-5 Binoculars
Replies
4
Views
296
maddog58
M
Tristate
A great hunting tale
Replies
19
Views
2k
Tristate
Tristate

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Great Deals at Camera Land

Camera Land - Optics, Cameras, & More

Camera Land - The Place to Buy Optics

Camera Land - The Place to Buy Optics

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

Deer Tailgate.jpg
1D43F4A6-2511-440E-9EFA-4285B8ACB75C.jpeg
100_0740.JPG
IMG_4157.png
IMG_0563.png
EAA6C3B4-F358-41AC-A948-ADFEE87B5A2E.jpeg
Incredible Bull!
44.jpg
40.jpg
4C15ED4E-5A82-43F0-AFEC-80EABC79A6C4.jpeg
231DB58D-D570-4EF7-B3D1-BB05865C41F1.jpeg
20171016_125648.jpg
Back
Top Bottom