2012 Big Game Draw

I know that earlier draw and result dates is/was a proposal that the Commission had presented to them. Whether it has been adopted, I don't know. I looked at the FWP site real quick and could not find anything. I'd be all for it. mtmuley
 
I was at Cabelas here in Billings this week and a sign was on the counter saying that the put in date for deer and elk is March 15. The sheep moose goats stays the same. It said the reason why is so that hunters could make earlier plans if they draw. I wish they would shorten the general season by 2 weeks but they never will.


"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
If you want shorter seasons, there are plenty of states that will cater to your needs.

How's that short season working for Utah?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-11 AT 06:13PM (MST)[p]What does Utah have to with what I said? Colorado has short seasons, so does AZ, NM, WY, ID......

Name another state that a 5 week rifle general season for deer that goes right through the rut. I am all for a rut hunt, but make it a draw so that it people only get to do it every 3-4 years. I have killed 5 mature bucks in this state in the five years that I have lived here. November the 1rst is the latest that I have had an unpunched tag.

I am looking out for the ever-decreasing mule deer herds, not my own personal needs. The fact that general areas were not limited to tags in all of region 6 and the top half of 7 is a joke considering last winter.

Unless you kill a 175+ buck every year DIY on public land and continue to see more and more deer every year while doing so......and then are able to do it with a bow.....your point is dumb.

I see more of the eastern half of this state than the average game warden does and there is just way too much acerage with 0 deer on it.

I can and will continue to kill good bucks for me and help my close friends in doing so. However, pulling in to a gas station between Big Timber and Alzada from Nov 10-26 and seeing a trailer full of 2.5 year old deer on it and the people acting like they are bad A$$ hunters is getting old.....



"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-11 AT 06:44PM (MST)[p]



WTF would you want to shorten the season?Do you want to concentrate the hunting pressure into 3 weeks instead of 5?If your so worried about deer numbers why dont you stop killing them for a few years?Maybe stop helping everyone you know kill them as well?A shorter season is going to produce more pressure and lower peoples expectations resulting in more young deer killed,I think you should go work for the DWR in UT you think along the same lines and your rational is just about as useless.Move back to whatever rock you crawled out from under and quit trying to change #####.

"Unless you kill a 175+ buck every year DIY on public land and continue to see more and more deer every year while doing so......and then are able to do it with a bow.....your point is dumb."

It has never been and never will be like that here in MT,I dont know what planet you live on but its people like you that show up here and think they know whats best for the state of MT and the wildlife that really give transplants a bad name.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-11 AT 01:21AM (MST)[p]>
>I can and will continue to
>kill good bucks for me
>and help my close friends
>in doing so. However,
>pulling in to a gas
>station between Big Timber and
>Alzada from Nov 10-26 and
>seeing a trailer full of
>2.5 year old deer on
>it and the people acting
>like they are bad A$$
>hunters is getting old.....

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID36/594.html#19

If this is what you mean by "good bucks", then I think you're just as much part of the problem as the guys smoking 2yo. "Good bucks" usually don't run in packs of 20. More like 1 out of a 100. Kind of hard to walk the talk when you shoot 140" deer...

Montana decided long ago to manage for maximum hunting opportunity. There are plenty of guys that manage to kill BIG deer every year in MT, and then there are the rest of us that shoot average bucks and are happy doing so. If I want to hunt big deer I go where big deer live... Colorado. If I want to hunt deer for fun, MT is about as fun as it gets.

I hope they move the draw up and run it faster, make planning out the fall a lot easier.
 
Yep,you guys did a good job of wiping out a bunch of deer that would have been shooters in a couple years,your a real good spoksman for managing muledeer.Maybe you ought to start looking a little closer to home when you preach about killing young bucks.
 
No, that is not the one of the "good bucks" I was reffering to. I posted that deer because of the wierd way in which he died. However, that 3x4 is bigger than the deer that I see that get slaughtered in the rut by the thousands of which I was talking about. If that was at least someones standard it would be nice.
These are "good" bucks that I was reffering to. Most well above 140:
9083breaks.jpg

3154steve_deer.jpg

9360stu_deer.jpg

6372studeer.jpg

2440stuseer2.jpg

All public land, DIY deer that have been killed in the past 3 years by me and my close friends before Nov 4th each year. I think that I pay enough taxes to this state and drive and glass enough to at least have an opinion.
Keep the hunt at 5 weeks. Move the Archery hunt up a week, then get rid of the week in between seasons....then have 5 weeks. If people want to shoot small deer, do it, just shoot them when they are smart enough to run away and not just stand there. Just get the hunt out of the rut. Make the rut archery only or lmited entry.

I am not trying to pick fights, I am just calling it as I see it. If they don't do something, what's it going to be like when they start mining the coal that's out by Ashland, and punching holes in the ground from Sidney to Roundup like they are doing in Williston?



"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-11 AT 08:51PM (MST)[p]I have lived in Montana all of my life, getting way to close to fifty years now. When I was younger I was sure that the Montana season made us the luckest hunters in the western states. Now I an sure it is unsubstanable and leading us to disaster. This is why. My family has a ranch in Eastern Montana. Not a big ranch, but not so small that we don't have some good hunting opportunities. Like many place we own the river and creek bottoms and the uplands are mostly public. Every year nice bucks move off the public to rut with the does in our hay fields. Some of them stay a few weeks and some of them may only stay a few days. Most of them don't make the season. Our place is not leased, one of the only ranches in our aria that isn't leased, but that doesn't stop outffters from shooting the rutting bucks. Our place is small enough that almost all of our property is less than a mile from our neighbors. All the outtfitters have to do is wate and the bucks will be on there property. Last year we had four buck better than 170 show up for the rut. Three of the four went out of state. If we leased it would have been four out of four. Where were the bucks during the weeks before the rut. Two of them were eating in the alfalfa fields at night and by day light they were well in to the hills on the public ground. One of the others was living in some very rugged country in a large block of public. He was by himself and I don't think he ever left his hidaway except to rut. The last I had never seen untill he showed up so I don't know where he was in October but I suspect he was living in a large block of roadless public ground several miles to the east of where I saw him. If bucks are leaving public land to rut on our ranch it is happing elcewere in eastern Montana. In western Montana deer are coming down out of the mountans and going to winter range. Much of the winter range is private land were as most the summer and early fall range is public. By having the season in November instead of October we are transfering value from the public to the private land. Those four bucks that were ruting in my fields were valued at thousands of dollars. The season may be a good thing for me as I will have more bucks to hunt that could be hard to find earier in the year or if I decide to lease I will be able to get more money. I don't think this is a good thing for the future of hunting in Montana. The opportunity of the November season is nice but remember it is also nice for the nonresident that is booking multiable hunts in several states. You can always fit Montana into a already full fall of hunting. It is also a great opportunity for an outtfitter from a different state who can extend their season after hunting their home state. Everytime there is an increase in the hunting opportunity there is also an increase in the value of my property for hunting. I can understand why some Montanas don't want the managment of the other western states. I am far more worried that Montana will look more like Texas than the other western states in the future.

Antlerradar
 
When you get done patting yourself on the back for being such a bad ass hunter stop and think for a second how selfish you're being. You moved to MT from who knows where? And after spending 5 years killing 'good bucks' its not enough for you? WTF dude??? You're contradicting yourself! You brag about how awesome of a hunter you are and all the "big" deer you kill and then complain that someone shoots a little one and brags about it? What do you have to complain about again? How exactly are they impacting your hunting opportunity? You kill big deer every year and see 20 good bucks in a weekend...
 
I never said I was a bad a$$ I posted those pics to defend myself because you and Nonyet were trying to say that I was shooting small deer and bragging about it. If you are killing deer like that on public land post them. I'd love to see them and honestly congratulate you.

The point I'm trying to make is that the general hunt needs to be moved out of the rut. If people can kill deer they are happy with from Labor day to about Nov 5th or so great. Its called hunting. Popping a deer over the hood of the pickup truck over Thanksgiving weekend is called shooting. Let people kill deer just make them hunt that's all.



"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-11 AT 01:26PM (MST)[p]Stubaby,

Anytime you shoot a mule deer buck past about Oct. 20th...you're hunting them in a phase of the rut...period.

So unless you're closing the season down no later than October 15...you're largely pi$$ing in the wind about keeping the hunting season out of the rut.

I've found the hunting from Nov. 15-Dec. 1 to be not nearly as good as the days prior to Nov. 15....in particular right around the end of October first few days of November. Which, just by some odd coincidence is right about the same time you whacked most of your deer. Gee, thats shocking?

Of course, I've only hunted Montana for 31 years...so how would I know?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-11 AT 01:57PM (MST)[p]So is hunting elk in the rut considered 'shooting' and not hunting?

How about drawing an LE tag? In most instances its just a shoot, not a hunt, unless you hold out for something truely special, right?

Did that archery kill come from eastern MT?

Cutting the rifle season in half would be a total cluster fug. Do you realize that you'd concentrate the hunting that much more. Limit time and you'll have even more bucks killed out of desparation. Spead it out and let people hunt when they can.

I sincerly hope that the season NEVER changes! If you want to kill big deer go where they live. Eastern MT has never produced big deer, and never will. It has little to do with hunting pressure. If that was the real solution, then we'd see some monster deer coming off huge ranches.
 
Not to mention that not everyone who hunts Montana even bothers with deer hunting...lots of residents and non-residents only hunt elk.

Then there is the fact that many R and NR hunters dont even chase mule deer...lots of them hunt whitetails.

I probably only kill mule deer 3 out of every 10 years...mostly hunt whitetails myself.

I agree that forcing the season into a smaller time slot will increase the pressure...no doubt about it.
 
Just another hypocrite that moved here and wants to change everything to the way it was where they came from,it be alot easier to just move home,nothing is going to change,get over it.
 
The Sweat Grass Hills closes early (area 401) and there isn't an over abundance of giants up there. It used to be pretty decent as far as numbers of deer and decent bucks go before a lot of the ranches were put in the Block managemnet program, but lookng back as long as I can remember which is just shy of 30 years of hunting, it was never a trophy area.

I do think alot of people are confused on what they refer to as a "mature' deer and what is just a young 4 point.
 
>You moved to MT from who knows where?

Utah.... Surprise.



>If that was the real
>solution, then we'd see some
>monster deer coming off huge
>ranches.

To be fair, that's not entirely true.


Stu's right that if managed different, we'd see bigger deer. He's completely wrong about something needing to be changed though. 95% of hunters in Montana are perfectly happy going out in the snow on thanksgiving weekend, and shooting a two or three year old buck from the road. More power to them. It's been done that way for generations, and there's really no reason to change it.

If you want to kill mature deer, you can either work your ass off, get connections to a good piece of property, or hunt whitetail.
 
www.thelodgeatdiamondcross.com Go here for a few minutes. Looks like some big deer to me. Look, all I am asking is this:

How come you never hear of big bucks coming off the Beartooths and Absaroka's between Red Lodge and say Chico Hot Springs? If you go up the Chief Joseph highway by Cody right now, I could show you 300-700 deer from the highway. Why is there not a mass migration of mule deer off the North side of the moutnain like there is on the East by Cody?

I just drove the dirt roads South and East of Bridger all the way to Warren. Then from Warren East over to the wild horse area North and east of Lovell, WY. This was on a clear, cold, non-windy day. I saw 3 deer. Has anybody had a Pryor tag in the last 10 years? Are there many deer there at all?

Last week I drove from Boadview over to Big Coulee. From there I went directly north and west almost to Harlowtown then south on the dirt road south of Sawmut and ended up in Big Timber. Then I went over to Livngston on the freeway. I saw 45-50 deer. All does and 2 small bucks. The majority of these deer were on the pivot lines on the Yellowsone river.

Two weeks ago I went to Miles City. I drove the Interstate to Hathaway...went South on Graveyard and after 2 hours ended up on the Tongue river south of town. On the way back to Billings I got off at Forsyth and went over through Ingomar to Melstone. I then went South from Melstone all the was to Pompei's Pillar. I even went all the way into that "Yellowstone State Park". All day I saw about 80 deer. 8 or so bucks, and only one was even close to a "shooter".

Went to Lewistown. Up to Roundup then over through Forrestgrove by way of Surenough and East fork of Big spring creek. Then back to Billings through Eddy's Corner....down to Judith Gap and on to Ryegate...criss-crossing the dirt roads. maybe 150 deer all day.

Look on a map. That is a huge chunk of country. I realize that I was either on a paved road or dirt road, but I have a spotting scope with a window mount and I glassed and glassed. Put me on a hill side with my binos and scope and I'll find deer just as good as the next guy. I killed 3 coyotes for cryin out loud.

I realize that traditions are traditions, but that is some serious acreage with very few deer.

I have customers who live in Miles City, Red Lodge, Bozeman, Lewistown, Glendive, Baker, Jordan, Glasgow, Malta, Scoby, Great Falls, Helena, Ashland....all of them hunt and most are 5+ generation Montanans and all say the same thing. They see less and less deer every year.

What is the hunting going to be like in 15-20 years with the regulations staying the same? Do people who hunted 15-20 years ago think that the hunting is as good as it was then? Not the ones I talk to.

Those of you that keep posting act like I am personally attacking you. I'm just trying to figure out how such a huge chunk of land doesn't have more deer than it does.


That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
Your plan won't work to grow bigger deer because Montana is not a trophy deer state. In fact, it never was. If you look back in the record books to the 50's, 60's and 70's, MT couldn't keep pace with Idaho, Colorado, or Utah even back then. Those decades provide a very good basis for what the trophy states were because with no draw tags and fairly uniform management policies across the west, all things were pretty equal in terms of a deer herd's ability to demonstrate genetics.

Shortening the season won't work for the reasons everybody has already mentioned. People will just be in a bigger rush to kill their bucks and will wind up shooting smaller deer, not older more mature ones. Read the threads from Utah general hunts. The average buck isn't any better than MT deer is it? Nope. Even though its short and in October. The young bucks are dumb and will always get killed first, no matter when the season is.

Like I said, we've got the one week trophy hunt thing in the West. No need to turn MT into a Colorado-wannabe, especially when it will NEVER be able to produce bucks like Colorado.
 
Not going to bust your balls anymore... I know you're just trying to figure things out... I agree with most every thing you say and yes the mule deer hunting sucks and the numbers are in the tank.

Mule deer are in sad shape everywhere not just MT, and I think Montanans are just now realizing what every other state learned 10 years ago. The sad thing is nothing will change, hunters won't allow it. Hell they complain about paying $16 for a deer tag!

Can you still buy 7-8 doe tags in MT?

I left MT about 10 years ago now. Usually make it back to hunt every year, have lots of friends and family there. I've seen it decline over time to the shitty situation you have today. I remember as a kid 25-30 years ago seeing 100's of mule deer in hay fields and on the winter range, and my grandpa telling me that there isn't nearly as many as when he was a kid! Now you'd be lucky to see a dozen in these same areas.

Personally I think the lack of 'big' deer is due to our ability to kill them so efficiently. If they live long enough to be in the shooter class, they have a name, been photoed, and patterned. Break out $3000 worth of optics, $8000 ATV, a 7-800 yard deer rifle and range finder, they don't have a friggn chance! Go back 30-40 years ago and find out how many people killed 'mature' bucks every year, that percentage is far fewer than today. Most guys killed one good deer every few years.

I hunted eastern MT a couple years ago after taking 7-8 year break. I was very disappointed in both the deer numbers I saw and the number of hunters. More hunters = more dead deer. My girlfriend bought a doe tag that year. She'd never taken a deer and really wanted one. I have to say we actually hunted for a doe and couldn't get it done! We saw very, very few deer in the areas I used to hunt.

I marvel at the cluster ##### the F&G has put hunters in. Baffles my mind how you stand for it!

If you think the deer hunting sucks, you should have seen the elk hunting 20 years ago and compare it to what you have today. Thank the F&G for continually under estimating the 'objective population' and believing all the ranchers when they say there's too many elk. Opening up the season to any elk, and handing out a second cow tag is insane! I think my favorite is them extending the seasons because they were still over objective.

Wolves are not the problem!

I haven't hunted elk in MT for 3 years, and don't see myself going back anytime soon. I love to hunt deer and will be back, but I don't expect to kill a big one, heck the way its going maybe my expectation should be to just see a deer.

Sure you can hunt harder and make it happen. At some point you're going to run out of animals in those 'harder' areas.

I could go on and on about the shitty management in MT but I really don't care anymore. I'm glad I experienced it when I did, and at this point I'd rather hunt in Colorado where I know I have a decent chance at an elk and big muley bucks. Better yet I'll stay in AK and hunt all the animals the rest of the world dreams about... all for free. :-(
 
I've been hunting all over Eastern MT for nearly 50 years, most of the time on the NR Big Game Combo. Times have changed, the biggest change was the Winter of 010-011. And the EHD 011 Summer killed WT's. I know ranchers so I hunt mostly private property. Mule deer and WT DO get good antler growth under the right conditions. Easy Winters helps, early lush Spring greenup helps,with that for sure you need the buck to get past about 4-5 hunting seasons. Very difficult with hunting pressure.
I think the biggest problem with the MT FW&P is they think of all deer as "haystack" deer or the deer grazing in the irrigated fields and allow antlerless permits accordingly. The deer in the rough country much of it BM and public land gets the hunting pressure, the private property gets the orange paint.
FW&P has got to protect the back country females for the next few years. FW&P is not going to cut back on NR licenses, $$$$ are already budgeted and will continue to be. Unless MT residents would make up the $$$$ difference, forget that!
 
I would pay $50 for a resident deer license if they would stop offering doe tags.......

"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
Wow this is sad to read.

I hunted MT in 2006 and 2007 with big game combo license, those were the best hunts I have ever been on. We saw hundreds of deer. We saw whitetails, muleys, antelope, and elk EVERY day!

We hunted the 1st 10 days of gun season both those years and only saw about 4 or 5 other hunters each time. You could hardly tell it was hunting season!

I always wanted to go back there but now I don't know...
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-11 AT 05:49PM (MST)[p]http://fwpiis.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=53311

Lots or really telling info in here concerning this discussion.

I think one option that could help, would be to keep the season structure as is, but scatter a few more permit only areas throughout the state. The draw odds in the few good units are so diluted right now.
 
I don't think more permit areas would be something most Montana hunters would be in favor of. Not saying it's a bad approach to the problem, I just think it's almost part of some hunters "culture" if you will, to kill a buck regardless of trophy quality. As our states population grows, the five week season puts more and more pressure on the deer, especially muleys. I'm not sure a shorter season is the answer, as immature bucks are easy to kill the entire time anyway. Maybe a species specific tag where whiteys and mule deer overlap would help. Possibly designating a weapon. Until more hunters are in the "quality not quantity" frame of mind, the state will probably continue to manage the herds in that fashion. Having said that, I'm not gonna bash our biologists, or FWP in general. They have an extremely tough job trying to please us all. I will say, if you haven't, make sure to attend any public comment meetings in your area. If there is a local wildlife club, join it. We need to be heard if anything is going to change. mtmuley
 
>Wow this is sad to read.
>
>
>I hunted MT in 2006 and
>2007 with big game combo
>license, those were the best
>hunts I have ever been
>on. We saw hundreds of
>deer. We saw whitetails, muleys,
>antelope, and elk EVERY day!
>
>
>We hunted the 1st 10 days
>of gun season both those
>years and only saw about
>4 or 5 other hunters
>each time. You could hardly
>tell it was hunting season!
>
>
>I always wanted to go back
>there but now I don't
>know...


It all sprung from one guy crying about MT not having enough big bucks to keep him happy,right after he got done bragging about killing good deer every year since he moved here.Dont put much stock in it,the hunting is great.
 
Make sure the club you join has the best intrest of hunters in mind,there are some out there that are more interested in preserving wildlife than preserving our hunting opportunitys but are glad to do it with hunters donations.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-11 AT 01:29PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-11
>AT 05:49?PM (MST)
>
>http://fwpiis.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=53311
>
>Lots or really telling info in
>here concerning this discussion.
>
>I think one option that could
>help, would be to keep
>the season structure as is,
>but scatter a few more
>permit only areas throughout the
>state. The draw odds in
>the few good units are
>so diluted right now.


The problem with a permit system is that it displaces hunters and they don't magically disappear.

I'm seeing more and more 4 county plates in a place like to hunt. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that most of the mule deer hunting around Missoula is on a draw now.

Draw tags start a vicious cycle of displaced hunters going to other units and causing the hunters from that unit to complain out hunter numbers, thus causing the F&G to put that unit on a draw and start the whole cycle over again.
 
I like the idea of the species-specific tag, along with cutting doe tags. Does anybody know how many whitetail bucks are harvested in MT compared to Mule deer bucks?

That way they could limit the number of mule deer bucks that are harvested by breaking down the tag nummbers in a certain area.


"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
All this is, is raising NR Combo licenses by $50.

The Montana State Legislature passed a new law?effective July 1, 2011?that establishes a preference point system to distribute "Class B-10" nonresident big game combination licenses and "Class B-11" nonresident deer combination licenses. In a preference point system, licenses are awarded to those applicants who hold the greatest number of preference points.
Purchasing Preference Points

Preference points for a nonresident big game or deer combination license may be purchased for a nonrefundable fee of $50. Preference points can be purchased:

at the time of application for the nonresident combination license; or
between July 1 and September 30 for individuals who did not purchase a preference point when applying for a nonresident big game combination license; or
between July 1 and September 30 for individuals who did not apply for a nonresident big game license.

Applicants may purchase only one preference point per license year. Preference points purchased at the time of application are awarded prior to the drawing. The application deadline has passed, it was September 30, 2011.
Distribution of Licenses

Seventy-five percent of the nonresident combination licenses will be issued to individuals with preference points and 25% will be issued to those applicants who do not have preference points. If the number of licenses exceeds the number of applicants in either group, then the "surplus" licenses will be issued through the other group to ensure all licenses are issued.
 
Species specific tags wouldnt gaurantee any difference,how do you know there wouldnt be MORE MD killed?Most of the hunters I know target MD but kill the occasional WT by chance,they would all choose the MD tag and be stuck with the choice.
 
I value my MT deer tag and always have. It's worth a lot more $ than I pay for it. Awesome deer hunting in this state. Most guys want to see more big bucks by the road or in their hayfields. I'm sure the deer hunting "back in the day" might have been a hell of a lot better, but there's damn awesome deer on public land in piles of places in MT for hunters every year. We are lucky. Could the management be better in places? No doubt. Can't make everybody happy. Quit frikkin whining.. especially if you're responsible for shooting piles of young bucks every year and does.
 
I have never killed a MT doe. I don't kill smallish bucks.
It's big horns or nothing. I also have a difficult time filling my tags early season, I enjoy MT Muley hunting to much, want to make it last.

I don't mind the price for my BGC license, Ill spend a couple months in MT Fall 012 stating with upland early Sept.

I doubt NR's applying for the Big Game Combination License need buy a bonus point in 2012.

Won't sell out for the draw and again a ton of returned licenses.
 
> Most guys want
>to see more big bucks
>by the road or in
>their hayfields.


Bingo.
 
I just kind of want it back the way it was even in the 90's, it was nothing compared to the 80's, but at least there were some deer.
I used to hunt with the belief that if I just hunted harder and walked farther than the next guy, I would get the bigger bucks, but I've come to realize that just isn't true anymore. Basically you just walk farther to kill a buck that you would have never even considered as litle as 10 years ago. I can't say I've ever shot any monsters, but I ususally try and shoot at least what appears to me to be an older deer. It's too bad, but I still wouldn't hunt any other state.
I really feel sorry for my kids though as they are just getting to the age where they are finally old enough to officially hunt, and after years of going with me before they could pull the trigger, they now think it's boring because we just walk and see nothing where only a few years ago we would at last see some.
 
Just re-read your post about the "awesome bucks" that roam the public lands.....and yeah, MT does have some great hunting and there are still some big bucks. It's especially great hunting, comparatively, for those that never had the oportunity to see what the deer herds were like or hunt when seeing 100's of deer a day was commomn.
However, unless your totally oblivious to reality, the deer numbers are a fraction of what they were. I don't know your age, but compared to the quality and quantity of deer even 15 years ago, the decline is alarming. Something needs to be done or before we know it, we'll be wishing we just had the opportunity to go.
I agree not shooting does and little bucks, would help, however, peoples definition of "awesome bucks" has somehwat dwindled to include what use to be "little bucks", mine included. That's the sad part.
 
Sorry you guys, But you know! If the residents of MT would be willing to up their license fees to WHAT? $200 for deer, another $200 for elk, $50 for the state waterfowl, $110 for bird. NO need for NR's to flip the bill. :) Write your congressmen :).
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-11 AT 04:26PM (MST)[p]Everyone needs to remember there is a pretty good cross section of MT hunters who arnt concerned with trophy antlers,and the F&G will never be able to keep both crowds happy.In order to turn the state into a trophy deer state you would have to make every area draw with limited tags,then everyone would be bitchin about not being able to get a deer tag like the guys from Utah.There are plenty of opportunitys out of state and in Canada for big bucks,MT will never be that what it once was,with higher hunter numbers,higher numbers of trophy hunters,more outfitters,more out of state hunters,more development,idiotic low cat quotas,disease,ect,ect it will never rebound to the "good ole days".
 
I've filled a MT deer tag since 82, annually. I always assumed "back in the day" with big bucks standing around stupid along the roads in the haystacks, with nobody taking them, was long before that. Always have to laugh when I hear just how terrible it is now. Having hunted deer from one end to MT to the other, and in other states.. all I can say is man.. the deer on the Arizona strip sure are suffering. I hunted there for 14 days and saw 13 bucks. Who in their right mind would want to hunt there?

Pretty sure my 11 year old is going to have a great hunt in Montana next fall.
 
>Just re-read your post about the
>"awesome bucks" that roam the
>public lands.....
>peoples definition of "awesome bucks"
>has somehwat dwindled to include
>what use to be "little
>bucks", mine included. That's
>the sad part.


I think a 300lb + old grey-coated muley with big heavy antlers is "awesome" weather it scores 140 as a big 3 point or 190 at clean typical. I've shot 15 MT muleys, all but 2 on public, 170 or better on average, some way better, the ones with crap scores were damn big still. I don't see that changing anytime soon, despite how terrible the hunting is getting in MT. I can't tell the differecne. Guys will always piss and moan.
 
Hey SPAZ, I'd love to see all 15 of your muleys. Got pics? That many 170 or better bucks is pretty good. I guess 170 would be a crap score, so you must have some whoppers. I doubt the 300 plus pounds though. mtmuley
 
I've no doubt about your doubts, but do doubt you'd look at a legit 170 and think he was crappy .. even "back in the day". haha.
 
>NO need for NR's to
>flip the bill. :) Write
>your congressmen :).


Write away...congressmen got 'nuthin to do with it.


Every state has higher prices for NR hunters. MT is no exception. If you don't like it, you've got two options:

1) Move to MT
2) Don't hunt MT
 
The bragging made me curious so I walked around the house/ garage and counted. I've tgot 14 MT mule deer, with some serious low-balling on gross inches, the avg is 172. The good ones have to make up for the dink-ass young crap 150-160s like these.. :D
krbuck2010.jpg

fatso.jpg

2005MTdeerandrifle.jpg
 
Come on Greenhorn, lets see the rest......

You too everybody else, post up some pics of some dead mule deer. I just want to see some horn. Even you NONYA....lets see some of these hawgs you keep talkin about. I want some motivation pics come next Saturday before Labor Day hits.

BTW, Spaz....was that bear this year from MT?


"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-11 AT 02:52PM (MST)[p]>More of Stus hypocrisy in his
>newest thread...
>http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/22378.html
>More dink bucks you helped people
>kill,why dont you try and
>practice what you preach?CO sounds
>like the perfect place for
>you,you can apply every year
>and maybe you will get
>a tag,maybe not.


Stubaby killed his first ever MD buck 4 years ago and now thinks that just because he hasn't seen and killed anything bigger than a 3.5yo buck there must not be any around and we need to cut the seasons back.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/22642.html

Keep hunting Stu! Those big ones aren't as dumb as you think!

They're out there, but you're going to have to pass on the small bucks eat a few tags before you kill them. No matter how much they cut the season back, you're never going to be able to tag out on a toad without some effort. And you'll never do it year after year after year on a 175+ buck.

I'd be curious to know what the dates are of the bucks you've killed Stu? Also, how many solid days did you put in before you killed them? (And I'm talking serious days of deer hunting).

It will never be easy. Cutting the seasons and implementing draw hunts is the knee-jerk reaction to not being pleased with hunt quality, but that is a pretty hard argument to make when you're tagging out on 3.5yo bucks early in the season every year.
 
Wtf.....Been hunting for 4 years and you have figured out how the state of MT should revamp their whole hunting season/regs...
 
On a brighter note, our Bitteroot herds are back on the upswing. SPAZ, I still wanna see pics of the big bucks. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-11 AT 09:20PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-11 AT 09:09?PM (MST)

Hey, it was my first deer. Better than most peoples' first deer. I also killed a smallish buck in 09 because it was with a bow and I wanted to get a buck with a bow. He was a 4 point as well. I am not opposed to people getting thier first deer or thier first archery deer anyway they like. I'm not going to kill one that small ever again. BTW, that first buck was 5 miles from any trailhead and well earned. Do you see a farmhouse and a tractor in the background? At least they weren't from my truck standing in a field all rutted up and too stupid to even run away.

I think the dates should be moved out of the rut and you keep personally attacking me. So what? If it is so hard to kill a buck from Nov 14-24, then why do most people wait to hunt then? For the challenge? Ya, right.

Here are my kill dates.

2007-Opening day of the rifle hunt
2008- Nov 1rst
2009- Oct 13th
2010-Opening day of Archery--hence the velvet. It's really easy to kill a 182 buck with a bow in Sept, right? No treestands at 9700 ft.
2011-Opening day of the rifle. I like that deer, but I should have waited. I saw 3 more later on in the season that were 175+, but oh well...next year, right.

I start scouting in July, and scout up untill opening day.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/22378.html

I did not shoot these deer. They are not huge deer, but at least they were shot early enough in the season to have the smarts to run away. Not only that, they were both far enough away from a truck to need to be quartered and packed out in backpacks.

I know SPAZ hunts like crazy and I respect his opinion, but 85 and NONYA should start posting some pics if they are going to keep offering some sound hunting advice.

This is the hunting I am talking about. The deer makes eye contact with the hunters and doesn't even think about leaving that doe.
Is that the freeway I can hear in the background?

"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-11 AT 12:39PM (MST)[p]You seem to be full of advice and you have posted nothing but pics of bucks that should have been passed if you want deer to mature to "shooter" status,whats your point?

Heres a few from recent history...if these dont meet your standards Ill dig up some from back in the 90s
DSC_0003.jpg

MY2020BUCK202004.jpg

Picture331.jpg

2011muley-2.jpg
 
Those are some nice bucks. Esp the ones on the wall. Its called giving someone a compliment. You should try it sometime.

I don't see them being any more "shooters" Than a few of the ones I posted. 167 net pope and young and 189 net boone and cocket are shooters most anywhere. You said you have pics of bigger deer from the 90s. That is my point. Is it possible to get things back to the way things were? If so, how?

If there was a recipe I would be the first to help in anyway I could. I still think that eliminating doe tags for a few years and making the last two weeks of the General Season archery only would help. Maybe just make the last 2 weeks a draw or every 2 to 3 years for the every year hunter???? Just some ideas.

I'm not out lobbying or writing my congressman, so quit being so freakin hostile. I would just like to see more mule deer like the ones on your wall and less like the trailer full of 2 points I saw over Thanksgiving. And don't tell me to hunt harder, because the further I get away from one road is closer to another one. There is just too much deer country in this state with no deer on it.



"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
If youd stop helping everyone you know shoot 3.5yr old deer it would improve your odds.
 
I'm totally on board with NoneYet. 1st time for everything. But damn.. you're on UGLY SOB. Merry Christmas.
 
I know I know...my real parents left me in a dumpster I was such an ugly baby.Merry Xmas SPAZ
 
I'll shut down the free salesrep guide service as long as Greenhorn gets Breaksrunner to scout for me next year. : )

Unless my brother decides to get a MT tag... next year will be more of a solo affair. I'd like to fish the Bighorn more in November anyway. Hopeflully I get another buck on the archery opener. I'd hate to shoot another deer on the 13th of October all ruttted up with his nose up a doe :)



"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
Stu, Did I read that you would rather FISH than hunt mule deer? I hope not. SPAZ, WHERE are the pics of your big deer? mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-11 AT 06:39PM (MST)[p]Found field pics of the two on the wall and a pic of the smallest buck Ive killed in many years,my first archery/velvet buck,there was no rut going on the second day of archery and this buck was killed in OPEN country,they arnt all that smart.Id love to kill them all early and have all season to hunt other critters but my areas depend on snow or the rut to bring the older deer down out of the nearby private land,IMO these older deer dont get as stupid as a young buck during the rut,they wouldnt have lived long enough to get that old if they did.You have to be willing to eat that tag if your going to hold out for a "shooter",the last week of the season has often been the first time I see one all season,if I didnt have the rut to look forward to I would have to settle for a younger deer most years.People get pissed when they hear this kind stuff because we dont want our state turned into another utah/nevada/colorado regardless of the trophy quality it my provide and it seems every guy who moves out here has an idea of how we need to change things.
Picture695.jpg

3.jpg

12010bowbuck.jpg
 
Looks like Nonya needs to grow his Will Farrar(all the Mossback shows...who is that guy anyway, and where does all his money come from?) beard again for good luck. I would never choose fishing over mule deer, but I would put it above waterfowl, and upland birds. I haven't had the Hyde out since June due to building a new house and having a baby........can't wait to get back out next week.

4984stu_bow_2.jpg


2428b_horn.jpg




35big_bow_face.jpg





"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"
 
In the area you hunt the Mountains are all private and the plains are public? Most of the state is just the opposite.
Antlerradar
 
stubaby, how can you whimper about the game management for good bucks when you are assisting people in killing lots young deer? Why do you want somebody else to scout for you? Sounds lazy. I know no amount of driving around the state is going to give you even a tiny clue on to where/how good of deer are around. Just saying..

mtmuley, I've got plenty of nice photos of animals/hunting and if I were to paste pictures of me and pals, and very good deer taken over the years, I could be here all night. Merry Christmas. Me and my son are going to take big mule deer next year in MT. Take that to the bank. :D
 
Not "monster"s Tag but they are about as big as they get in my area,in most cases they were the largest legal buck I saw all year.
 
This is what I've been filling my tags with lately.
Often passing on better bucks early. I have a hard time filling my MT deer until toward the end of the season. Yeah I know needs another couple years.

th_P1010065.jpg
 
SPAZ, I just figured with a 14 mule deer career, and a 172 inch average, you'd have a picture of one that scored at least 172 inches. mtmuley
 
mtmuley, It's recreation,not career. (gay) Taken more than 14, that's just MT. Avg is higher than 172. Got pictures of all them. Here's this year, public, general. ZERO days hunting deer as I was hunting elk. Saw half dozen or so over 170. "biggest" i saw was a 150s 3 point GIANT with 6" mass and around 20" G2s. Wish I could have taken him, but it never worked
out. Merry Christmas.
krmdside.jpg
 
Not sure what the "gay" reference is all about. Seemed odd you puffed your chest out about big deer, then posted pictures of a bunch of dinks. Congrats on your more than 14 deer. I've been back home in Montana for 11 years now, and I've taken three. I don't kill em for headcount. mtmuley
 
>Not "monster"s Tag but they are
>about as big as they
>get in my area,in most
>cases they were the largest
>legal buck I saw all
>year.


They might not be monsters but there damn nice.
 
>They might not be monsters but
>there damn nice.


Some day!Thats what keeps us out there,cant wait for next fall!
 
You're right, I like to buy a MT license, enjoy hunting deer, and fill my tag and freezer (even if they are dinks).. I'm odd that way.

Good luck in 2012. I hope your "hunting career" improves. I'd hate to hear about you being on hunting welfare.
 
I have enjoyed the pics and arguments/discussion on Montana deer hunting. I have hunted Montana a couple of times and with what I have experienced and researched we (myself and hunting partners) view Montana as a great opportunity state for deer. We go there on years we don't plan on drawing anywhere else and go with the hopes of having a fun hunt and filling our tags on 24 inch bucks if we're lucky. Its not like going to Colorado where you go with that 30" hope in your mind but it is a fun hunt and if you go with realistic expectations you can fill your tags.Its like anywhere else that if you do your research and hunt/hike deeper your odds get better. nwhunter
 
Yep SPAZ, I kill a bull EVERY year. On heavily hunted public land within a 5 mile drive of my house. I'm damn proud of that fact. If a bull is legal, I cut, wrap and freeze him. My kids grew up eating them. Can't remember the last time I bought beef. Kinda flattered with you doing research on me though. So, YOU were the one that stated you had 15 mule deer bucks with an average score of 172 inches. I simply asked for a photo or two of a couple that big. Thats it. Then the gay thing and bag of crap comment. Funny stuff. I do wonder one thing though, where were you born SPAZ. Just curious. mtmuley
 
mtmuley, I grew up in eastern MT, in the house my grandpa was born in. Nothing wrong with killing an elk and/or deer every year. That's what's great about living in MT.
 
>I have enjoyed the pics and
>arguments/discussion on Montana deer hunting.
>I have hunted Montana a
>couple of times and with
>what I have experienced and
>researched we (myself and hunting
>partners) view Montana as a
>great opportunity state for deer.
>We go there on years
>we don't plan on drawing
>anywhere else and go with
>the hopes of having a
>fun hunt and filling our
>tags on 24 inch bucks
>if we're lucky. Its not
>like going to Colorado where
>you go with that 30"
>hope in your mind but
>it is a fun hunt
>and if you go with
>realistic expectations you can fill
>your tags.Its like anywhere else
>that if you do your
>research and hunt/hike deeper your
>odds get better. nwhunter


I could not have said it any better.
 

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