.223 for deer
- Thread starter jorka
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L
life2extreme
Guest
Whether it is or not I would not use it. I'm not from Utah, but given the size of the deer there I wouldn't for nothing. Maybe on the dog sized deer down South, but no big ole Utah Muleys. Just my opinion.
Aim Center Mass
Aim Center Mass
elkantlers
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-15-08 AT 09:58PM (MST)[p]Right from the Big Game Proclamation: "your rifle must fire center fire cartriges and expanding bullets"
It says nothing about minimum caliber.
I wouldn't use them either...
It says nothing about minimum caliber.
I wouldn't use them either...
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
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- 3,140
Not advisable.
sageadvice
Long Time Member
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- 11,849
No Thanks! not me!
You would be crazy to shoot such a small bullet at a deer. Not enough knock down power and will most likely not make a big enough "injury" to quickly kill a large animal like a Mule Deer.
Coyote, Yes
Rock Chuck, Yes
Rabbit, Yes
Crow/Mag-Pie, Yes
Cat, Yes
Deer, NO!!!!
Would you shoot a coyote with a pellet gun? DUH!! j/k.
2pointer
Coyote, Yes
Rock Chuck, Yes
Rabbit, Yes
Crow/Mag-Pie, Yes
Cat, Yes
Deer, NO!!!!
Would you shoot a coyote with a pellet gun? DUH!! j/k.
2pointer
A
apollosmith
Guest
Legal? Yes.
Advisable? No.
With that said, I've killed two mule deer bucks with a .223. Neither took more than a step.
In the right hands a .223 is quite capable. Afterall, it's the primary round the military uses and a deer isn't much bigger than a human. But with all of the MUCH more optimal cartridges available, it doesn't make much sense to use a .223.
Advisable? No.
With that said, I've killed two mule deer bucks with a .223. Neither took more than a step.
In the right hands a .223 is quite capable. Afterall, it's the primary round the military uses and a deer isn't much bigger than a human. But with all of the MUCH more optimal cartridges available, it doesn't make much sense to use a .223.
flyingbrass
Active Member
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- 750
my thoughts exactly. they hunt people with .223 so why not deer. i don't recommend it but it has it's place.
FWIW, I let my 8 year old hunt with one if he is in a stand sitting with me and he only shoots at deer inside 80 yards that are broadside feeding in a foodplot.
flyingbrass
cold dead hands
FWIW, I let my 8 year old hunt with one if he is in a stand sitting with me and he only shoots at deer inside 80 yards that are broadside feeding in a foodplot.
flyingbrass
cold dead hands
ThunderImpulse4
Active Member
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- 460
my neighbor used his .223 for deer a couple years. as long as the shot placement is good it will go down. just like any big game gun really. shot placement is a big factor. if all else fails shoot it in the head.
huntFX4
Active Member
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- 870
In eastern Montana where I grew up, i know quite a few people who hunted with .223 and they were very successful. I hunted with a .22-250. Never lost a deer. Only one of a dozen or so deer and antelope I shot with it ever went more than 100 yards.
It's all about shot placement. I shot 3/4 of my deer through the neck and dropped them in their tracks. With all the practice i had with that rifle, I could put it into a good sized apple at any distance out to 350 yards. Just a matter of practice and knowing the gun.
If you have a good clear shot and steady set up, you are good, provided you are an excellent marksman. Exact shooting is key. a 300 WinMag won't put them down if you suck at shooting and don't hit vitals or spine.
It's all about shot placement. I shot 3/4 of my deer through the neck and dropped them in their tracks. With all the practice i had with that rifle, I could put it into a good sized apple at any distance out to 350 yards. Just a matter of practice and knowing the gun.
If you have a good clear shot and steady set up, you are good, provided you are an excellent marksman. Exact shooting is key. a 300 WinMag won't put them down if you suck at shooting and don't hit vitals or spine.
B
BigWooley
Guest
>In eastern Montana where I grew
>up, i know quite a
>few people who hunted with
>.223 and they were very
>successful. I hunted with
>a .22-250. Never lost
>a deer. Only one
>of a dozen or so
>deer and antelope I shot
>with it ever went more
>than 100 yards.
>
>It's all about shot placement.
>I shot 3/4 of my
>deer through the neck and
>dropped them in their tracks.
> With all the practice
>i had with that rifle,
>I could put it into
>a good sized apple at
>any distance out to 350
>yards. Just a matter
>of practice and knowing the
>gun.
>
>If you have a good clear
>shot and steady set up,
>you are good, provided you
>are an excellent marksman.
>Exact shooting is key.
>a 300 WinMag won't put
>them down if you suck
>at shooting and don't hit
>vitals or spine.
I disagree, larger caliber = larger margin of error. An off shot with 223 is gonna be alot worse than an off shot with any larger 30 cal. For instance i had a guy straight up paunch shoot a elk from 350 yards, way far back dead center stomach. Bad shot and hunter didnt take his time. But that cow went a total of 15 ft. yes we had to use one more shot but that was from 6ft when she would not so much as stand up with us there. with a 223 i highly doubt that would happen, and honestly ill never find out. Yeah a 223 CAN do it, with perfect placement. but i would not feel like i was doing my part when pulling the trigger knowing what could happen much easier than shooting a proper caliber. as for 223 for hunting people.....why do you think the 6.8 came out, 223 is not efficient enough, especially FMJ ammo.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln
>up, i know quite a
>few people who hunted with
>.223 and they were very
>successful. I hunted with
>a .22-250. Never lost
>a deer. Only one
>of a dozen or so
>deer and antelope I shot
>with it ever went more
>than 100 yards.
>
>It's all about shot placement.
>I shot 3/4 of my
>deer through the neck and
>dropped them in their tracks.
> With all the practice
>i had with that rifle,
>I could put it into
>a good sized apple at
>any distance out to 350
>yards. Just a matter
>of practice and knowing the
>gun.
>
>If you have a good clear
>shot and steady set up,
>you are good, provided you
>are an excellent marksman.
>Exact shooting is key.
>a 300 WinMag won't put
>them down if you suck
>at shooting and don't hit
>vitals or spine.
I disagree, larger caliber = larger margin of error. An off shot with 223 is gonna be alot worse than an off shot with any larger 30 cal. For instance i had a guy straight up paunch shoot a elk from 350 yards, way far back dead center stomach. Bad shot and hunter didnt take his time. But that cow went a total of 15 ft. yes we had to use one more shot but that was from 6ft when she would not so much as stand up with us there. with a 223 i highly doubt that would happen, and honestly ill never find out. Yeah a 223 CAN do it, with perfect placement. but i would not feel like i was doing my part when pulling the trigger knowing what could happen much easier than shooting a proper caliber. as for 223 for hunting people.....why do you think the 6.8 came out, 223 is not efficient enough, especially FMJ ammo.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln
huntFX4
Active Member
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- 870
LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-08 AT 11:06AM (MST)[p]Big Wooley,
I quit using the 22-250 for the reason that I had to track a deer for several hours after I shot it in the chest. It was further than I normally shot and failed to go through. one lung that deer ran on until I got the killing shot.
Now I use a 300 winmag and 270. I had a doe muley take off right as i squeezed the shot from 300 yards and get it in the paunch. It took half a day to get that doe. So my experience tells me otherwise.
And as far as i know, FMJ are illegal in most states.
I quit using the 22-250 for the reason that I had to track a deer for several hours after I shot it in the chest. It was further than I normally shot and failed to go through. one lung that deer ran on until I got the killing shot.
Now I use a 300 winmag and 270. I had a doe muley take off right as i squeezed the shot from 300 yards and get it in the paunch. It took half a day to get that doe. So my experience tells me otherwise.
And as far as i know, FMJ are illegal in most states.
L
life2extreme
Guest
Afterall, it's
>the primary round the military
>uses and a deer isn't
>much bigger than a human.
>But with all of the
>MUCH more optimal cartridges available,
>it doesn't make much sense
>to use a .223.
From first hand experience the .223 sucks at killng people too, unless you get a head shot. You'd be amazed at how far and fast a terrorist can run in sandals with a gut shot.
Aim Center Mass
>the primary round the military
>uses and a deer isn't
>much bigger than a human.
>But with all of the
>MUCH more optimal cartridges available,
>it doesn't make much sense
>to use a .223.
From first hand experience the .223 sucks at killng people too, unless you get a head shot. You'd be amazed at how far and fast a terrorist can run in sandals with a gut shot.
Aim Center Mass
N
NeverStopHuntin
Guest
The military uses a 223 because it is so good at wounding people. If you wound a person then two people have to haul him somewhere to get help.
D
desertdeer
Guest
I know a guy who uses a 22-250 for deer regularly. he loads a 74 grain bullet at about 2500 fps. that is not a lot of bullet or speed but he kills deer. in my opinion a 243 is about minimum for a mule deer. it is legal but i dont think its smart, but i shoot a 30-378 so im kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum.
M
mtnmayhem
Guest
I know it's illegal in Colorado - I thought because the DOW didn't want people using AR-15's or other assault rifles in the field. That's interesting that it's legal elsewhere.
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
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I have herd the preferred caliber of a poacher is a 22 long rifle.
I think a .223 with a proper load will take a muley but it is on the light side. Not what I would suggest but if that is what you have get r done.
I also think using those magnum manhood extender rounds are on the opposite spectrum if you hit a deer with one of them at close range you might just punch a little hole through them resulting in a long blood trail also.
If it were me I would personally use a 270 for deer and a 30 caliber for elk., .243-.270 for antelope, .223 for coyotes and rabbits, .50 caliber and up for camel jockeys.
Archery is a year round commitment!!
I think a .223 with a proper load will take a muley but it is on the light side. Not what I would suggest but if that is what you have get r done.
I also think using those magnum manhood extender rounds are on the opposite spectrum if you hit a deer with one of them at close range you might just punch a little hole through them resulting in a long blood trail also.
If it were me I would personally use a 270 for deer and a 30 caliber for elk., .243-.270 for antelope, .223 for coyotes and rabbits, .50 caliber and up for camel jockeys.
Archery is a year round commitment!!
D
dleonard3
Guest
I shot my first Mule deer (forky) at 30 yards with a .223 and a 55 grain soft nose bullet. Three shots....then I aimed and finally killed it with the only shot that hit him.
My first antelope buck was shot at 50 yards with a .223 and a 55 grain Nosler Ballistic tip. One shot, high shoulder, and it tipped over and was dead before I walked up to it.
Last year, my youngest son shot his 16" Pronghorn with a 22-250 using a 40 grain ballistic silver tip bullet. I know, that is WAY too light and small to do the job - but the buck was within 50 yards and it only ran about 30 yards before tipping over. His heart was hamburger.
Last Saturday, my oldest son tagged his first big game animal, a nice 14" pronghorn using that same 22-250. He wanted a bullet that was a little tougher, so I loaded up some 55 grain ballistic silver tips. He hit that buck at about 40 yards, and double lunged him. That buck ran 20-30 yards and tipped over.
With all this being said, I would still not recommend using such a light bullet for a big old tough Muley, and I wouldn't use these light bullets for long range shooting either. I've had coyotes get away after being hit in the boiler room at 200 to 300 yards.
I'm going to use my Remington stainless fluted Sendero in 300 Weatherby Mag for my General Deer Hunt this year. It will be loaded to 3100 fps with a 200 grain Accubond bullet. I'm sure that would even kill a monster buck with a big "S" on it's chest ("SUPERDEER"). However, the trade off will be massive meat damage and heavy recoil.
My first antelope buck was shot at 50 yards with a .223 and a 55 grain Nosler Ballistic tip. One shot, high shoulder, and it tipped over and was dead before I walked up to it.
Last year, my youngest son shot his 16" Pronghorn with a 22-250 using a 40 grain ballistic silver tip bullet. I know, that is WAY too light and small to do the job - but the buck was within 50 yards and it only ran about 30 yards before tipping over. His heart was hamburger.
Last Saturday, my oldest son tagged his first big game animal, a nice 14" pronghorn using that same 22-250. He wanted a bullet that was a little tougher, so I loaded up some 55 grain ballistic silver tips. He hit that buck at about 40 yards, and double lunged him. That buck ran 20-30 yards and tipped over.
With all this being said, I would still not recommend using such a light bullet for a big old tough Muley, and I wouldn't use these light bullets for long range shooting either. I've had coyotes get away after being hit in the boiler room at 200 to 300 yards.
I'm going to use my Remington stainless fluted Sendero in 300 Weatherby Mag for my General Deer Hunt this year. It will be loaded to 3100 fps with a 200 grain Accubond bullet. I'm sure that would even kill a monster buck with a big "S" on it's chest ("SUPERDEER"). However, the trade off will be massive meat damage and heavy recoil.
1911
Long Time Member
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- 6,197
I guess when we reach the point that we are blasting big game at 1500 yards with super duper ultra spectacular mags, there will come a point where even the 150 grain slug will be impacting at a range where it retains less energy than a 55 grain sp .223 at 100 yards. Perhaps then it will be considered a reasonable cartridge. Strikes me as odd that many have no second thought about throwing artilery at an animal over a half mile away but somehow a .223 at 200 yards is somehow insane and irresponsible.
If you kill terrorists with a high power rifle they die martyrs and get a whole harem of virgins in heavan. If you wound one with a .223 you pretty much destroyed his lifes purpose and denied him his glorious ending.....plus it keeps one or two more terrorists busy taking care of his wound.
That said I would rather the military have a bigger caliber round than the .223 so our Soldiers never have to worry about that one terrorist EVER again.
?Here?s to the hero's that Git-R-Done!!?
That said I would rather the military have a bigger caliber round than the .223 so our Soldiers never have to worry about that one terrorist EVER again.
?Here?s to the hero's that Git-R-Done!!?
1911,
You took the words right out of my mouth. The way I see it a misplaced shot with an Ultra-mag is just as much of misplaced shot as a misplaced shot is with a .223. If it is a bad angled shot for a .223, it just as bad of an angle with one of the supper sonic Ultra-mags. Too many people think because they have a BIG, BETTER, BATTER RIFLE they can push the issue a little more and get a way with it. I have seen several deer harvested with a .223 from 50 yards out to couple hundred yards. All of which were dead with in 50 yards of where they were shot. Having said that if I had a larger caliber rifle available and I had as much confidence in myself with larger caliber rifle as I do with the .223 I would opt for the larger rifle.
Keep it in the ten ring!
400bull
You took the words right out of my mouth. The way I see it a misplaced shot with an Ultra-mag is just as much of misplaced shot as a misplaced shot is with a .223. If it is a bad angled shot for a .223, it just as bad of an angle with one of the supper sonic Ultra-mags. Too many people think because they have a BIG, BETTER, BATTER RIFLE they can push the issue a little more and get a way with it. I have seen several deer harvested with a .223 from 50 yards out to couple hundred yards. All of which were dead with in 50 yards of where they were shot. Having said that if I had a larger caliber rifle available and I had as much confidence in myself with larger caliber rifle as I do with the .223 I would opt for the larger rifle.
Keep it in the ten ring!
400bull
D
desertdeer
Guest
Before you bash magnums too much keep in mind that a big bullet going fast will drive its way through a shoulder and into the vitals at a reasonable range. And that long range shooting is determined by the shooter and not the cartridge
J
justamacguy
Guest
Boy... for those that would not use a .223 on a deer, I would hate to hear your take on archery hunting.
Go ahead... use the .223. All the deer AND ELK that I have ever killed have been with a .223 or a .22-250. It works fine. In fact my boy first deer, which he shot last year was with a .223.
Go ahead... use the .223. All the deer AND ELK that I have ever killed have been with a .223 or a .22-250. It works fine. In fact my boy first deer, which he shot last year was with a .223.
R
Rem308
Guest
We get predation permits for does and my 223 is my favorite rifle for this . I head shoot them an no meat lost.Great little rifle,if used in the right situation.
B
bobcatbess
Guest
.223 IS A GREAT PLINKING GUN!!!
NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR BIG GAME THOUGH!!!
YA I KNOW!!!
"WHY I KILLED AN ELEPHANT WITH MY PELLET GUN THEORY"!!!
BIG STINKYS TAKE HITS FROM .223'S AS MOSQUITO BITES!!!
THE ONLY GOOD LAW THE UDWR EVER HAD THEY CAME OUT WITH SEVERAL YEARS AGO STATING IT HAD TO BE .25 CALIBER OR LARGER,THAT DIDN'T LAST LONG!!!
ON BIG GAME IT SHOULD BE NO LESS THAN .27 CALIBER & A MAGNUM CALIBER AT THAT!!!
WE WANNA SHOOT IN TO NEXT WEEK,RIGHT???
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR BIG GAME THOUGH!!!
YA I KNOW!!!
"WHY I KILLED AN ELEPHANT WITH MY PELLET GUN THEORY"!!!
BIG STINKYS TAKE HITS FROM .223'S AS MOSQUITO BITES!!!
THE ONLY GOOD LAW THE UDWR EVER HAD THEY CAME OUT WITH SEVERAL YEARS AGO STATING IT HAD TO BE .25 CALIBER OR LARGER,THAT DIDN'T LAST LONG!!!
ON BIG GAME IT SHOULD BE NO LESS THAN .27 CALIBER & A MAGNUM CALIBER AT THAT!!!
WE WANNA SHOOT IN TO NEXT WEEK,RIGHT???
THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
cmiddleton
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,214
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-08 AT 03:02PM (MST)[p] i can only think of one thing
WHY?????? would anyone think this would be acceptable?
does anyone have any respect for the game they hunt?
i think all states need to define what cal is a minimum size.
i get sick of this question year after year.
yesterday i was at the shooting range when four guys from Texas came in and asked me to sight in their new rifles they didn't know how.
three were shooting 7 mags and one a 7 ultra mag.
a few shots and i had all four 1 1/2" high at 100 yards.
they then shot two boxes each saying they still needed work because they were not grouping at 300 yards.
at 100 i shot 3/4" groups and at 300 i could do 4" groups
they were saying they were going antelope hunting and were planing on 700 yard shots. these bozos couldn't group at 200 yards. only 1 of them seamed like he had any gun sense.
BUT AT LEAST they were shooting enough gun to make up for mistakes.
I'd never seen them before and ended up apologising to the range master for being near them
fancy scopes, fancy guns, nice clothes, Lincoln navigator, they still walked off the range left the brass, pop cans, targets, empty boxes, sand bags laying on the benches.
WHY?????? would anyone think this would be acceptable?
does anyone have any respect for the game they hunt?
i think all states need to define what cal is a minimum size.
i get sick of this question year after year.
yesterday i was at the shooting range when four guys from Texas came in and asked me to sight in their new rifles they didn't know how.
three were shooting 7 mags and one a 7 ultra mag.
a few shots and i had all four 1 1/2" high at 100 yards.
they then shot two boxes each saying they still needed work because they were not grouping at 300 yards.
at 100 i shot 3/4" groups and at 300 i could do 4" groups
they were saying they were going antelope hunting and were planing on 700 yard shots. these bozos couldn't group at 200 yards. only 1 of them seamed like he had any gun sense.
BUT AT LEAST they were shooting enough gun to make up for mistakes.
I'd never seen them before and ended up apologising to the range master for being near them
fancy scopes, fancy guns, nice clothes, Lincoln navigator, they still walked off the range left the brass, pop cans, targets, empty boxes, sand bags laying on the benches.
H
Hunter22
Guest
I'm from Arizona where I choose between 2 species.
Would I use a .223 on coues deer? yes
Would I use a .223 on mule deer? no
I wouldn't use anything less than a .243 on mule deer.
Would I use a .223 on coues deer? yes
Would I use a .223 on mule deer? no
I wouldn't use anything less than a .243 on mule deer.
