257 Weatherby/270 WSM/ or 7mm???
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sageadvice
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All the cartridges mentioned, and a few others, are great for what you plan to hunt, especially if you plan to extend your shots out to 4-600yds. But i don't believe that you'll find a more efficient, sweet loading than the 270WSM. It doesn't need the longer barrels, the fee-bore, the expensive brass, doesn't have the longer heavier action, or the belted case, and can usually be had in a lighter rifle.
They're all good for various reasons, mostly cause they work, so shoot what you want!! I like my pick because i've owned and used those mentioned and i personally just like the ballistics, efficiency, and simplicity of the 270WSM.
Joey
They're all good for various reasons, mostly cause they work, so shoot what you want!! I like my pick because i've owned and used those mentioned and i personally just like the ballistics, efficiency, and simplicity of the 270WSM.
Joey
Cahunter805
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Id say any of those would be perfect.
Go with the WSM and you can have all three. I've found the 270 short to be exremely versatile, especially for the critters you mentioned. If you want to shoot a classic 270 somethin, the 130 ballistic tip at 3250 is hard for quadrupeds to argue with and can be found in several factory loaded configurations. My favorite so far is the 110 gr TTSX from Barnes at 3590 (compare that to your 257 bee). I've taken several head of game with this round and I really believe it will do anything a jacketed 130 can do on critters smaller than elk. The 140 Accubond is a well built flat shooting bullet that has killed aoudad and oryx for me with no problems. I prefer to roll my own, but if you look around there is a pretty good variety of factory loadings available for the WSM (7mm also, not so much for the 257). Have fun with your research and let us know what you decide.
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440sixpack
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270 WBY or 264 win mag.
completesportsman
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Out of those I would pick the 270wsm
sageadvice
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If you're saying favorably toward the Weatherby, sorry Dog, I must disagree!
I'll start off by saying that both cases holds nearly identical amounts of water. You say favorably, how so?
Joey
I'll start off by saying that both cases holds nearly identical amounts of water. You say favorably, how so?
Joey
LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-10 AT 00:28AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-10 AT 00:26?AM (MST)
Just some food for thought, the WSM's will never = their big brothers, when you cram a bullet into that short case, keeping it to the confines of a short action, it wouldn't matter if it had = the case capacity, it would lose it fast.
Freebore, gimme a break, the WSM's RUM's RCM's have room for a rats nest between the bullet and the lands, not just the weatherby.
Beltless, makes no diff to me..in fact, if you compare the beltless wsm to the belted wby, the wby can head space off the shoulder, and does after the first loading. the WSM's shoulder is too steep to neck size..so you will be FL sizing, no big deal, but neither is a belt, between the two options, I'll take a belt.
short action, I dont care for them, but if it is a selling point to the individual, then the WSM is your huckleberry.
The WSM does make practical sense over the Weatherby, definitely cheaper to own, but that wasn't the question.
Just some food for thought, the WSM's will never = their big brothers, when you cram a bullet into that short case, keeping it to the confines of a short action, it wouldn't matter if it had = the case capacity, it would lose it fast.
Freebore, gimme a break, the WSM's RUM's RCM's have room for a rats nest between the bullet and the lands, not just the weatherby.
Beltless, makes no diff to me..in fact, if you compare the beltless wsm to the belted wby, the wby can head space off the shoulder, and does after the first loading. the WSM's shoulder is too steep to neck size..so you will be FL sizing, no big deal, but neither is a belt, between the two options, I'll take a belt.
short action, I dont care for them, but if it is a selling point to the individual, then the WSM is your huckleberry.
The WSM does make practical sense over the Weatherby, definitely cheaper to own, but that wasn't the question.
sageadvice
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-10 AT 02:36AM (MST)[p]Dog, Most of the case you are trying to make is in defense, not saying how it compares favorably. Ain't this fun?
First off, the cases are basically the same size so the Weatherby is in this instance, NOT a big brother. Short actions are stiffer, therefore more prone to being more accurate. That is straight out of your Campfire website! Sure, you can head space off the shoulder but not the guy who buys a gun and a box of shells. How about the longer barrels needed to get their claimed velocities? Everything Weatherby costs more, all this for what superiority?
Hey, i know lots of guys out there all ready own special or custom guns with worked up handloads that basically can do or maybe even do a bit better than what the 270WSM basically does right outa the factory boxes. Sure you guys are defensive and i don't blame you!. It's only human nature to like what you have and defend it against intruders into what you before thought, performance wise, was sacred ground. Fact is though, there's a new boy on the block and he's a tuff little bastage. Pound fer pound, inch fer inch, grain fer grain, he's raising plenty of eyebrows
Joey
First off, the cases are basically the same size so the Weatherby is in this instance, NOT a big brother. Short actions are stiffer, therefore more prone to being more accurate. That is straight out of your Campfire website! Sure, you can head space off the shoulder but not the guy who buys a gun and a box of shells. How about the longer barrels needed to get their claimed velocities? Everything Weatherby costs more, all this for what superiority?
Hey, i know lots of guys out there all ready own special or custom guns with worked up handloads that basically can do or maybe even do a bit better than what the 270WSM basically does right outa the factory boxes. Sure you guys are defensive and i don't blame you!. It's only human nature to like what you have and defend it against intruders into what you before thought, performance wise, was sacred ground. Fact is though, there's a new boy on the block and he's a tuff little bastage. Pound fer pound, inch fer inch, grain fer grain, he's raising plenty of eyebrows
Joey
completesportsman
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I have always heard that the short actions are stiffer too and I can see the thinking behind that. But, the lugs on the bolt are on the front of the bolt right behind the bolt face, what difference does the length of anything behind that point of lug mating make?
Not trying to argue just wondering what you guys think. I don't think it matters much from an accuracy standpoint.
Not trying to argue just wondering what you guys think. I don't think it matters much from an accuracy standpoint.
sageadvice
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CS, I really don't think it amounts to much at all, especially in a hunting rifle. All the stuff i laid out at the top and during this thread are just things that add up to make my argument for my pick. Yes, you can make custom ammo, make custom chambers, have longer barrels, have a gun made with less free-bore, lots of the things that a good smith and reloader can do with a Weatherby... but why?
As i also said above, They're all good!!
Joey
As i also said above, They're all good!!
Joey
LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-10 AT 10:24AM (MST)[p]CS it does matter. Flex is flex and more flex in the action area of a gun usually does effect accuracy adversely. That's why solid bottom single shot actions are usually more accurate all other things being equal. The longer loading port in a standard long action is prone to more flex because the wall thickness of the reciever is identical to it's shorter action counterpart in most production actions. Their are designs out their that have added material to help alleviate this issue.
A little food for thought... Why do you bed the entire mating surface on an action and pay particular attention to getting all surfaces mated equally with no low or high spots to eliminate movement of the action within the stock? Why do we usually free float a good barrel? Most bench rest accuracy records are held by short cartridges because of how they perform and they're easier to shoot thru many rounds in competiton. Accuracy is not just a componet of what happens in front of the lugs but is largly contributed to making everything happen in as consistant a manner as possible and studies have shown that a properly bedded stable action can have a profound effect on accuracy and minimizing the flex is part of this line of thinking with bolt guns ( more ridgid less movement and flex at the shot). Hope this sheds some light on it for you. All things are relative but an accurate rifle is an accurate rifle short or long action and they are built everyday using all action types.
I think they are all fine cartridges but I think there's a reason why that little .270WSM is still doing well and It does offer some pretty good bang for it's buck and it's being offered by so many manufacturers! But all will do the job for you quite well and ammuntion can be easily found for all of them. So it's really a matter of preference and what bullet you're planning to shoot and the ballistics associated with that round and you can't go wrong with any of them.
A little food for thought... Why do you bed the entire mating surface on an action and pay particular attention to getting all surfaces mated equally with no low or high spots to eliminate movement of the action within the stock? Why do we usually free float a good barrel? Most bench rest accuracy records are held by short cartridges because of how they perform and they're easier to shoot thru many rounds in competiton. Accuracy is not just a componet of what happens in front of the lugs but is largly contributed to making everything happen in as consistant a manner as possible and studies have shown that a properly bedded stable action can have a profound effect on accuracy and minimizing the flex is part of this line of thinking with bolt guns ( more ridgid less movement and flex at the shot). Hope this sheds some light on it for you. All things are relative but an accurate rifle is an accurate rifle short or long action and they are built everyday using all action types.
I think they are all fine cartridges but I think there's a reason why that little .270WSM is still doing well and It does offer some pretty good bang for it's buck and it's being offered by so many manufacturers! But all will do the job for you quite well and ammuntion can be easily found for all of them. So it's really a matter of preference and what bullet you're planning to shoot and the ballistics associated with that round and you can't go wrong with any of them.
Sage, you know the first response to you before I edited? It said " I ain't getting into this" ! but, I rose to the bait anyway.
I wont turn this into a 1000 post "campfire" discussion, cuz we could while splitting hairs. The WSM is a fine cart..but its no secret I'm not a big fan. I have fought the urge to buy a 7 WSM, ( I think its the best of the bunch!no fighting .
Cbeard, its all about leverage in the flex of the L/A vs. S/A. Boskee described it better than I could.Interestingly, the S/A owns the records with the PPC's on the short range...While the L/A dominate the 1000 yard competitions (A recent world record set with a 300 wby... just sayin
enough of this, I think Boskee should warm things up down here and make a post on Gale McMillan's thoughts on barrel break in
I wont turn this into a 1000 post "campfire" discussion, cuz we could while splitting hairs. The WSM is a fine cart..but its no secret I'm not a big fan. I have fought the urge to buy a 7 WSM, ( I think its the best of the bunch!no fighting
.Cbeard, its all about leverage in the flex of the L/A vs. S/A. Boskee described it better than I could.Interestingly, the S/A owns the records with the PPC's on the short range...While the L/A dominate the 1000 yard competitions (A recent world record set with a 300 wby... just sayin
enough of this, I think Boskee should warm things up down here and make a post on Gale McMillan's thoughts on barrel break in
LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-10 AT 01:49PM (MST)[p]#1 better flying bullets (higher BC) and a larger selection of bullets. But with the quality & selection of the bullets today it's not vitally important unless you're looking for the utmost in accuracy. I don't think you'd go wrong with either one of them given what you're planning on hunting with it and make no doubt about it the .270WSM is no slouch its a fine cartridge in it's own right and more popular than the 7mm WSM based on manufacturers chambering for it in a production sense currently. It's a matter of preference in a hunting rifle. Reddog may have a little more light to shed on it. Sage is also a good reference on the round.
Barrel breakin 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another. It's more beneficial in a production gun than in a gun fitted with a match grade barrel due to the level of fit and finish in the bore itself. Match grade barrels, cut rifled or buttoned, are usually hand lapped and as such have a much better finish in the bore. Hammer forging ( mass production barrels) while having the ability to make an accurate barrel usually results in more imperfections inside the barrel and as such is usually more prone to copper fouling and holding powder residue inside the bore. Any gun can benefit from breakin but there's a whole lot of competition shooter's that don't break them in at all. If you have the time it can't hurt a thing and in some cases can enhance accuracy by making the bore smoother that results in less engraving & tranformation of the bullet as it travels down the barrel. It can make cleaning easier in the long run so it's your choice. I've always done it with the majority of the guns I've owned but there are barrel makers that don't think it helps and others that swear by it.
Barrel breakin 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another. It's more beneficial in a production gun than in a gun fitted with a match grade barrel due to the level of fit and finish in the bore itself. Match grade barrels, cut rifled or buttoned, are usually hand lapped and as such have a much better finish in the bore. Hammer forging ( mass production barrels) while having the ability to make an accurate barrel usually results in more imperfections inside the barrel and as such is usually more prone to copper fouling and holding powder residue inside the bore. Any gun can benefit from breakin but there's a whole lot of competition shooter's that don't break them in at all. If you have the time it can't hurt a thing and in some cases can enhance accuracy by making the bore smoother that results in less engraving & tranformation of the bullet as it travels down the barrel. It can make cleaning easier in the long run so it's your choice. I've always done it with the majority of the guns I've owned but there are barrel makers that don't think it helps and others that swear by it.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-10 AT 02:31PM (MST)[p]
>Why would you choose the 7
>WSM over the 270 WSM?
>
My personal preference. The fact that .6 BC bullets are readily available in 284, below 170 grain is the major factor.
The other reason, again totally personal, is I own a 270 wby and a 7 wby, the 7 didn't take long to win me over, even tho I've owned the 270 much longer. the 162 Amax and 168 SMK make me look like a much better shot at LR.
Their is a reason why the 7mm and 338 cals are the LR darlings..not to say other cal's aren't perfectly capable.
Did I skate around that OK? lol.
I want to add, if you aren't a hand loader, forget about the 7 WSM.
>Why would you choose the 7
>WSM over the 270 WSM?
>
My personal preference. The fact that .6 BC bullets are readily available in 284, below 170 grain is the major factor.
The other reason, again totally personal, is I own a 270 wby and a 7 wby, the 7 didn't take long to win me over, even tho I've owned the 270 much longer. the 162 Amax and 168 SMK make me look like a much better shot at LR.
Their is a reason why the 7mm and 338 cals are the LR darlings..not to say other cal's aren't perfectly capable.
Did I skate around that OK? lol.
I want to add, if you aren't a hand loader, forget about the 7 WSM.
sageadvice
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"Why would you choose the 7WSM over the 270 WSM?"
Personally, i wouldn't.
Contrary to what you might come to believe, the 270WSM's biggest competitor is not the 270 Weatherby but is the 270 Winchester. There are "dozens of 270 Win's out there for every Weatherby in the same caliber. The WSM version, totally out performs the Win version and even more so when using 140 & 150gr bullets.
The 7WSM on the other hand, has it's biggest competitor being the 7mm Rem Mag. My casual looking thru the ballistic charts shows me that the Rem mag version has it all over the WSM version. Yes, we have spoken of the advantages of the short WSM's over some of the long action rifles but i don't really believe that these advantages are enough to dump the better performing Rem mag to buy a 7WSM. The 7 Rem mag is really, a very popular and long lasting cartridge for good reason, it's just that good.
To my own way of thinking, the battle of the grouping of really great mid-sized thumpers gets down to the 270WSM and the 7mm Rem mag... with the advantages of each going to which weight of bullets you want to hunt with. If 150grs or under is plenty enough for what you want to do, then i favor the 270WSM. If though you may wish to hunt bigger stuff with bigger bullets, say 160grs and up, no doubt the 7mm Mag is the better option.
I don't mean to slight anybody or any other cartridges out there by what i'm saying here. There's lot's of excellent choices in these mighty-mid's...all good stuff!
Joey
Personally, i wouldn't.
Contrary to what you might come to believe, the 270WSM's biggest competitor is not the 270 Weatherby but is the 270 Winchester. There are "dozens of 270 Win's out there for every Weatherby in the same caliber. The WSM version, totally out performs the Win version and even more so when using 140 & 150gr bullets.
The 7WSM on the other hand, has it's biggest competitor being the 7mm Rem Mag. My casual looking thru the ballistic charts shows me that the Rem mag version has it all over the WSM version. Yes, we have spoken of the advantages of the short WSM's over some of the long action rifles but i don't really believe that these advantages are enough to dump the better performing Rem mag to buy a 7WSM. The 7 Rem mag is really, a very popular and long lasting cartridge for good reason, it's just that good.
To my own way of thinking, the battle of the grouping of really great mid-sized thumpers gets down to the 270WSM and the 7mm Rem mag... with the advantages of each going to which weight of bullets you want to hunt with. If 150grs or under is plenty enough for what you want to do, then i favor the 270WSM. If though you may wish to hunt bigger stuff with bigger bullets, say 160grs and up, no doubt the 7mm Mag is the better option.
I don't mean to slight anybody or any other cartridges out there by what i'm saying here. There's lot's of excellent choices in these mighty-mid's...all good stuff!
Joey
:^) That's really all it boils down to in the big equation and like Reddog stated if you don't reload then the .270WSM is the way to go between the two WSM, way more factory ammunition choices with a great bullet selection by a long shot. :^) Good thread guys!
ClarkW
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All 3 are great. I personally shoot the 257 and 7mm but have shot and have a friend with the 270wsm. All will do what you want at a variety of ranges. I like the 7mm 1st choice. Lots of load choices and just a flat out lethal caliber. My 2nd choice would be the WSM. Less load choices but less recoil than the 7mm and comes with a punch for sure.
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440sixpack
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As dog says the WSM's WILL NOT BEAT in any way other than action length a standard magnum end of story. I have an Ohler cronogragh and we've put many loads out of quite a few guns over it. on average the old magnums will be 100 -200 fps faster.
The WSM's are good rounds and great marketing, but if you're looking for enhanced performance forget it. anything the 300 and 270 WSM can do the 270 WBY and 300 win mag will do better and the WSM's aren't new anymore so the cool factor is even gone.
The WSM's are good rounds and great marketing, but if you're looking for enhanced performance forget it. anything the 300 and 270 WSM can do the 270 WBY and 300 win mag will do better and the WSM's aren't new anymore so the cool factor is even gone.
cbeard
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440 you are correct but in my mind the fair comparison for the .270 WSM is to the .270 Win-not the WBY. Of the 3 original WSMs (.270,7MM, and .300) the .270 WSM is the only one that shows a substantial improvement (by 200 fps or so) over its "parent" cartridge. And in a short action which really shines in a lightweight "mountain" rifle.
I think that is the big reason for its popularity.
I think that is the big reason for its popularity.
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440sixpack
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That's true I suppose, but my 270 WBY weighs under 7 lbs with a 4x12 Swarovski on it so is an ounce or two of action worth 100+ fps? both are good rounds but if I was going to build my gun over I'd stick with the 270 WBY without a doubt.
In factory rifles the WSM does offer a lot more choices I'll admit that.
In factory rifles the WSM does offer a lot more choices I'll admit that.
440 Nobody ever said the Wby cartridges are bad and if you've been around guns you know like I do they're all pretty damn good and Roy did his homework developing them and they have all stood the test of time. BUT they're certainly not the most economical option out there. Probably the same reasoning why you don't shoot lazzeroni cartridges as opposed to Wby. because they have a few rounds that out perform the weatherby rounds but the brass is limited at best and hard to find. But yet you don't shoot them why?
Most of the cartridges mentioned here are easier to find and offer good performance in their own right. Performance is a subjective thing and in ballistics you can always go to another round and make a fairly good argument why it may be better given all the choices we have today. Economics is economics though and a guy being able to pick up a box of shells to shoot for around $25.00 - $40.00 is still a lot better than shelling out $75.00- $100.00 ++ for a box of twenty rounds. Weatherby figured out a long time ago that they weren't going to sell enough guns using their more expensive ammuntion and that's exactly why the popular Vangard series was developed. They could easily see that while great not everybody could afford to shoot them and even fewer reloaded, and made the change and probably saved the company as a result. The hunters that took their animals with the Vangards were just a happy as the guys that took theirs with their Mark V'S and the animals never knew the difference. Isn't it great that we have so many good choices......in the end we all win.
Most of the cartridges mentioned here are easier to find and offer good performance in their own right. Performance is a subjective thing and in ballistics you can always go to another round and make a fairly good argument why it may be better given all the choices we have today. Economics is economics though and a guy being able to pick up a box of shells to shoot for around $25.00 - $40.00 is still a lot better than shelling out $75.00- $100.00 ++ for a box of twenty rounds. Weatherby figured out a long time ago that they weren't going to sell enough guns using their more expensive ammuntion and that's exactly why the popular Vangard series was developed. They could easily see that while great not everybody could afford to shoot them and even fewer reloaded, and made the change and probably saved the company as a result. The hunters that took their animals with the Vangards were just a happy as the guys that took theirs with their Mark V'S and the animals never knew the difference. Isn't it great that we have so many good choices......in the end we all win.
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440sixpack
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I guess but most of the threads here aren't about penny pinching it's more about what's optimum I thought.
I don't think Weatherby has made what I'd call a quality rifle since the japs stopped making the MK V, and I wouldn't have a Howa or vangard as a gift but that's just my opinion I don't like them. I used to collect the Sauer Mk V's and they were fine rifles but too heavy and with all the freebore not always that accurate which is no different today. some of the lightweight MKV's shoot and most of the 27 lb accumarks do but I don't want to pack a railroad tie around all day.
So if we're talking about what's optimum a light weight 700 or even a 70 action with a high quality barrel done by a top notch smith in any weatheby caliber with no freebore is a tough act to beat. most of us here are serious about guns and that's just my two bits, if economy and bang for your buck is top priority I agree with what you say.
I don't think Weatherby has made what I'd call a quality rifle since the japs stopped making the MK V, and I wouldn't have a Howa or vangard as a gift but that's just my opinion I don't like them. I used to collect the Sauer Mk V's and they were fine rifles but too heavy and with all the freebore not always that accurate which is no different today. some of the lightweight MKV's shoot and most of the 27 lb accumarks do but I don't want to pack a railroad tie around all day.
So if we're talking about what's optimum a light weight 700 or even a 70 action with a high quality barrel done by a top notch smith in any weatheby caliber with no freebore is a tough act to beat. most of us here are serious about guns and that's just my two bits, if economy and bang for your buck is top priority I agree with what you say.
Accumarks are up to 27lbs now?
got mine down to a trim 9 lb 10 oz now all up. not bad when you consider a 30-378 cart weighs a half pound by its self ;-)
Now that I'm getting older tho, I think I may invest in an Rifles Inc 300 wby, one of those sub 5 pounders that would weigh about 7-7.5 all up.
got mine down to a trim 9 lb 10 oz now all up. not bad when you consider a 30-378 cart weighs a half pound by its self ;-)
Now that I'm getting older tho, I think I may invest in an Rifles Inc 300 wby, one of those sub 5 pounders that would weigh about 7-7.5 all up.
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440sixpack
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Buy one of Lex's guns and your accumark will be just for road hunting.
sageadvice
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Dude said, "most of us here are serious about guns and that's just my two bits"
You couldn't be more condescending! Very typical of you!!
You didn't answer Boskee's question!
Good for you with your high dollar custom outfits. Me, this thread has now turned my stomach. I'll stick with efficient high performance hunting cartridges like the 270WSM and 280AI in guns that shoot exceedingly well but don't break the bank.
Joey
You couldn't be more condescending! Very typical of you!!
You didn't answer Boskee's question!
Good for you with your high dollar custom outfits. Me, this thread has now turned my stomach. I'll stick with efficient high performance hunting cartridges like the 270WSM and 280AI in guns that shoot exceedingly well but don't break the bank.
Joey
Here's a novel thought; find a rifle you like, then choose the caliber. Short actions, long actions, magnums, will all have different characteristics and all will fit you and your needs differently.
Fact is any of the calibers mentioned will do nicely. One isn't better than another, just different.
Fact is any of the calibers mentioned will do nicely. One isn't better than another, just different.
completesportsman
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So....whats it gonna be snakeoil?
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440sixpack
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Put the crack pipe down sage, this is just a conversation about calibers and rifles not about your mother so chill out.
Start a welfare class rifle thread and I'll stay off of it for you.
Start a welfare class rifle thread and I'll stay off of it for you.
P
Prism
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I have 2 of the 3 you're thinking about. I love my 270wsm, but I think the 7mm is a more versatile.
You guys make are putting way to much thought into this...
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sageadvice
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-10 AT 03:49AM (MST)[p]Dude said, "Put the crack pipe down sage, this is just a conversation about calibers and rifles not about your mother so chill out.
Start a welfare class rifle thread and I'll stay off of it for you."
What's the matter dude? Can't you answer a couple question without being insulting? Boskee's question begs to be answered yet you dodge it, look down your nose, high hat, and insult me instead! Why?
There is NOTHING cheap or inaccurate about the guns, cartridge, and equipment i own and choose to use. I prefer though, to spend my available moneys going hunting and killing good bucks, not breaking the bank on fully custom rifles only to brag that they are better than what the rest of us have.
I could, at times, be considered a supporter of you and some of your ideas in the "other" forums, but here and now, i'm disappointed in your "I'm better than you" attitude. Poor show Dude!!
Joey
Start a welfare class rifle thread and I'll stay off of it for you."
What's the matter dude? Can't you answer a couple question without being insulting? Boskee's question begs to be answered yet you dodge it, look down your nose, high hat, and insult me instead! Why?
There is NOTHING cheap or inaccurate about the guns, cartridge, and equipment i own and choose to use. I prefer though, to spend my available moneys going hunting and killing good bucks, not breaking the bank on fully custom rifles only to brag that they are better than what the rest of us have.
I could, at times, be considered a supporter of you and some of your ideas in the "other" forums, but here and now, i'm disappointed in your "I'm better than you" attitude. Poor show Dude!!
Joey
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440sixpack
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What are you talking about? let me guess , anyone who buys a conservation tag or hires an outfitter is a snob too? this is America the more money you have the more you do and the more you have that's our system if we accept it with houses and vehicles we should with guns.
I like guns, I like nice guns better and I love fine guns. when people ask what gun or caliber to get unless they specify a budget I like to talk about better and best not a rusty sawed off 308 savage with a fogged up 4x Bushnell and a slip on pad. maybe I'm wrong to assume most guys here have a rifle and they're thinking about an upgrade and wanting input or they'd just go to walmart and buy a hunk of junk and be done with it.
If I offended anyone else it wasn't intentional. if you have what you consider a good gun and you'd rather not talk about a better gun then what are you doing here anyway? I spent 30 years blowing tons money on guns until I figured out what I think is best and I've finally made up my mind. just like everywhere else on the internet there's lots of good and bad advice if you don't like it ignore it it's not personal.
I like guns, I like nice guns better and I love fine guns. when people ask what gun or caliber to get unless they specify a budget I like to talk about better and best not a rusty sawed off 308 savage with a fogged up 4x Bushnell and a slip on pad. maybe I'm wrong to assume most guys here have a rifle and they're thinking about an upgrade and wanting input or they'd just go to walmart and buy a hunk of junk and be done with it.
If I offended anyone else it wasn't intentional. if you have what you consider a good gun and you'd rather not talk about a better gun then what are you doing here anyway? I spent 30 years blowing tons money on guns until I figured out what I think is best and I've finally made up my mind. just like everywhere else on the internet there's lots of good and bad advice if you don't like it ignore it it's not personal.
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
"What are you talking about? let me guess"
Dude, i made myself clear and few if any here have ever not been able to understand exactly what i'm talking about!
"let me guess , anyone who buys a conservation tag or hires an outfitter is a snob too?"
No, not even! In fact, i support those that buy Governor's tag and high dollar hunts. I do draw the line at unscrupulous outfitters though and rules or laws that pointedly take advantage or limit non-resident hunters. Don't even try to put words in my mouth Dude!!
My point is Dude and what i'm talking about; I don't give one rats ass how much money you have, or have spent on guns, how great you think your custom guns are, and especially how much you think that your stuff is better than someone else's stuff. Why? Because of the arrogant, condescending, pretentious way you come off. You are certainly no better than anybody else that visits these pages yet every single time with you it's, "why don't you get exactly what i have and then you'll have the best"
Understand that!
Joey
Dude, i made myself clear and few if any here have ever not been able to understand exactly what i'm talking about!
"let me guess , anyone who buys a conservation tag or hires an outfitter is a snob too?"
No, not even! In fact, i support those that buy Governor's tag and high dollar hunts. I do draw the line at unscrupulous outfitters though and rules or laws that pointedly take advantage or limit non-resident hunters. Don't even try to put words in my mouth Dude!!
My point is Dude and what i'm talking about; I don't give one rats ass how much money you have, or have spent on guns, how great you think your custom guns are, and especially how much you think that your stuff is better than someone else's stuff. Why? Because of the arrogant, condescending, pretentious way you come off. You are certainly no better than anybody else that visits these pages yet every single time with you it's, "why don't you get exactly what i have and then you'll have the best"
Understand that!
Joey
4
440sixpack
Guest
Whatever, did I bring up buying one of Lex's guns? no I didn't but that must be what has your panties in a wad. I've built a lot of bad guns and wasted a lot of money on bad ideas , I'm not bragging about making mistakes I'm offering my experience of what didn't work you can take it or leave it. I've said over and over I think the Kimber is a great gun for the money, and a good used gun is better than a junk new gun so how does that make me an elitist? if you have the budget by all means there are better options but that isn't in the cards for everyone and I've never put anyone down for it.
You must have a chip on your shoulder because your recaps are coming off , it's not my fault if you can't afford the guns you want, and you started this so don't whine about that comment. I don't think my preference for a certian caliber or confirming someone's choice in a weapon makes me a condesending snob just because it isn't what you have. This is not supposed to be a personal thread it's about guns if you want to make it personal take it to the political forum that seems to be the purpose for it, nobody here cares I'm done with this.
You must have a chip on your shoulder because your recaps are coming off , it's not my fault if you can't afford the guns you want, and you started this so don't whine about that comment. I don't think my preference for a certian caliber or confirming someone's choice in a weapon makes me a condesending snob just because it isn't what you have. This is not supposed to be a personal thread it's about guns if you want to make it personal take it to the political forum that seems to be the purpose for it, nobody here cares I'm done with this.
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
I'm not running re-caps, Lex who?, i'm happy with my guns and you must be a retard to not know that!... and i'm tiring of you putting words in my mouth that aren't even remotely true!!
Just know that when someone comes on THIS FORUM and asks questions about a 7mm-08, almost any cartridge really, you come off as a POS telling them that you "don't know why they don't just get a 270 Weatherby", not just any one because without the custom modifications i have on mine it's about the same as several other cartridges and even less so than others, "and be done with it",...You come off as a major snob and have since day 1 that i've been in these pages!!
As i said, money or a person who has a ton of money means absolutely nothing to me unless that person is a regular guy! I've been shooting with guys that have had far more expensive guns than i my whole life and at the running deer and off hand silhouette competitions that i show up for, eyebrows get raised. Those guys with the fancy, high dollar guns pay attention because they know that me and the weapons i brought, my hunting guns, can, have, and will, beat them at their own game. Fancy guns don't make the shooter, fancy guns don't make the hunter, and especially, fancy guns don't make the person! I'm talking about you Dude!!
Joey
Just know that when someone comes on THIS FORUM and asks questions about a 7mm-08, almost any cartridge really, you come off as a POS telling them that you "don't know why they don't just get a 270 Weatherby", not just any one because without the custom modifications i have on mine it's about the same as several other cartridges and even less so than others, "and be done with it",...You come off as a major snob and have since day 1 that i've been in these pages!!
As i said, money or a person who has a ton of money means absolutely nothing to me unless that person is a regular guy! I've been shooting with guys that have had far more expensive guns than i my whole life and at the running deer and off hand silhouette competitions that i show up for, eyebrows get raised. Those guys with the fancy, high dollar guns pay attention because they know that me and the weapons i brought, my hunting guns, can, have, and will, beat them at their own game. Fancy guns don't make the shooter, fancy guns don't make the hunter, and especially, fancy guns don't make the person! I'm talking about you Dude!!
Joey
LAST EDITED ON Jan-26-10 AT 09:11AM (MST)[p]Like I said above they're all good cartridges and all accurate enough to do the job. You don't need a custom gun to be able to make it shoot. It's a fact that buying one ( custom or semi) will enhance your chances of getting a more accurate firearm. But to be honest there are lots of accurate guns out there that aren't custom rigs and they all shoot to the standard that their owners want and that's whats really important. The fact we have so many choices is great for all of us in that so many cartridges wil do the job at so many price points. The real difference here is a slight improvement in trajectory over a slower or less accurate cartridge but in reality if your scopes dialed in there isn't any real advantage if you know you ballistics on the round you shoot and shoot within your guns effective range.
You don't have to spend $5000.00 on any gun to be able to make it shoot and you'll won't be compromising your odds of success in the field if you don't if you put in the work. The majority of all animals killed in this country in the field are shot with production rifles with ammunition that works for it's owner. The neat thing is a guy can go out and buy a rifle in the round he wants and enjoy his hunt and hopefully fill his tag and be able to look back on his hunt fondly every time he picks up that rifle. At that moment it doesn't matter if that gun cost $200.00 or $7500.00 because in the end that gun created the memory for the individual holding it and it's worth more than either of them paid to buy it and in the end that's really what matters.
You don't have to spend $5000.00 on any gun to be able to make it shoot and you'll won't be compromising your odds of success in the field if you don't if you put in the work. The majority of all animals killed in this country in the field are shot with production rifles with ammunition that works for it's owner. The neat thing is a guy can go out and buy a rifle in the round he wants and enjoy his hunt and hopefully fill his tag and be able to look back on his hunt fondly every time he picks up that rifle. At that moment it doesn't matter if that gun cost $200.00 or $7500.00 because in the end that gun created the memory for the individual holding it and it's worth more than either of them paid to buy it and in the end that's really what matters.
