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bugledemin
Guest
I'm looking for a new rifle either the 300 R.U.M. or the 338. I know the 300 has proven itself. but like the bullet size of the 338 anyone know why I should get one or the other.
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rost495
Guest
I'd assume you like 338 for larger animals. IE elk etc.... If thats the case I'd seriously look in to the 300 RUM necked up to the 338. Its a better round than the 338 RUM. I hope you reload as most serious hunters do. If thats the case buy the cheapest 300 RUM you can get, trash the junk factory barrel and have a good smith put on a quality 338 barrel and chamber it. You can actually sell the factory 300 RUm barrel usually pretty decent price and fairly quickly.
Jeff
Jeff
Personally, I believe the .300 is the best choice. Especially if you would use the rifle for antelope and sheep. The .300 offers a greater selection of bullets, with weights as low as 110 grains. But, if you need horsepower, bullets as heavy as 240 grains are available. Maybe rost495 can tell me the advantages of a .300-.338 wildcat over the production .338 Ultra. Seems redundant. I don't think you can lose with the .300 Ultra. mtmuley
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rost495
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300 might be a more versatile choice. I'm just speaking since there is the option of 338 caliber. If that is brought up its usually because folks are taking on larger game. I've shot a lot of game with my 300 Wtby and have been in on a number of animals over 600 pounds. It works but the 338s I've used seemed to work better on larger stuff.
You can shoot lighter bullets in 338. I believe they go on down to 185 or so off the top of my head, up to 250+ IIRC. The 338 or 300 are not varmint rifles. But both shoot flat. I used a 338 Win last year to take a caribou at 802 yards. Flat enough.
Why do I suggest the wildcat? The 338 RUM case is smaller and carries less powder, and the wildcat reports are that its more accurate than factory 338 RUM. Having the powder capacity is nice since at times max loads are not as accurate and if you have to back down you still have horsepower.
If it were just occasional Elk etc... I'd be happy with the 300 though. Just being careful of bullet choice and somewhat with shot placement. One time I put a 200 Nosler Partition in the back end of a Nilgai at about 160 yards. Guide was screaming shoot. Figured I had the horsepower. Never made it past the hips.....Big animals need big horsepower in my opinion.
Jeff
You can shoot lighter bullets in 338. I believe they go on down to 185 or so off the top of my head, up to 250+ IIRC. The 338 or 300 are not varmint rifles. But both shoot flat. I used a 338 Win last year to take a caribou at 802 yards. Flat enough.
Why do I suggest the wildcat? The 338 RUM case is smaller and carries less powder, and the wildcat reports are that its more accurate than factory 338 RUM. Having the powder capacity is nice since at times max loads are not as accurate and if you have to back down you still have horsepower.
If it were just occasional Elk etc... I'd be happy with the 300 though. Just being careful of bullet choice and somewhat with shot placement. One time I put a 200 Nosler Partition in the back end of a Nilgai at about 160 yards. Guide was screaming shoot. Figured I had the horsepower. Never made it past the hips.....Big animals need big horsepower in my opinion.
Jeff
Jeff, Don't want to get into a peeing match, but there isn't anything on the Earth a .300 Ultra won't handle. I understand you folks with the Elmer Keith mindset will disagree, but the .30 caliber is perfect in whatever cartridge it is used. Flat shooting, and powerful, or both with the right bullet and chambering. As for the .300-.338 wildcat, I still don't see the advantage. If you look at the case capacity between the two factory cases, the increase from the .300 case over the .338 case is almost nil. Do you have any velocity and energy comparisons? mtmuley
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studpile
Guest
If you could just have one gun...I guess I'd say the .338 RUM, only because you can move up the ladder to heavier wieghted bullets, and now the premium bullet companies are going lighter for that caliber also. I know my Dad's and brothers .300 Win shoots those 180 grainers about 3400fps, so I'm sure the RUM would give it just a bit more.
I already own a .300RUM and love it to death, but would opt for a larger rifle if I only had one choice. Incidently, the factory barrel on my rifle has given me fantastic accuracy....yeah, if I could put a Shilen on there I would, but I have no complaints with Remington barrels.
You won't go wrong with either choice.
I already own a .300RUM and love it to death, but would opt for a larger rifle if I only had one choice. Incidently, the factory barrel on my rifle has given me fantastic accuracy....yeah, if I could put a Shilen on there I would, but I have no complaints with Remington barrels.
You won't go wrong with either choice.
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bugledemin
Guest
Thanks for the info guys. I already own a 300 WSM and am leaning towards the 338. because I already have a 30 caliber. I drew the house rock buffalo tag and can't decide if I will hunt with my bow, shoot the 300 WSM, or purchase a new rifle.
fisrtcoueswas80inches
Very Active Member
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rost, dont mean to bring ya down but 802 yards on a caribou????? i think you might have typed that wrong, or took a very VERY irresponsible shot. now if youd did kill the thing at 802 yards, do you think it was the right thing to do, could you not have gotten closer?? in no way am i trying to question your ethics, just wondering why a 800 yard shot was necessary on such a big animal. it is different to shoot 800 yards at a target, they dont limp off, hell id shoot 10 miles at a target,but i wouldnt shoot a inch over 500 at any animal no matter how big.
casey
casey
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studpile
Guest
I meant my Dad's and brothers .338 Win. shoot those 180's @ 3400 fps... OOps
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rost495
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-20-04 AT 06:25AM (MST)[p]Hi Casey
Irresponsible to post it maybe. IE I don't suggest most folks take this type shot. I suggest most folks hold to about 300 yards due to wind drift issues mostly. But I read my rangefinder. What a cool day as there was no wind and no thermal effects on the uphill shot. Wide open hillside on the last day of the hunt. Tallest cover was appx 4 inches tall. No offense taken from your question at all. You'll see below why I took it.
I normally shoot between 4000 and 8000 rounds a year competitively with iron sights out to 1000 yards from position with a sling. No benches, no scopes. I hold a High Master card in both across the course(out to 600) and prone(out to 1000). Which means I hit 10s or Xs 97% of the time I fire a round. I am distinguished, hold a couple of Presidents 100 tabs.
Which means about squat to most. Its personal to me. I don't like to type it or brag it. I'm just a service rifle shooter with an AR15. And I enjoy it.
Having loaded ammo, and zero'd my buddies 338 win mag at the house before he leaves for Alaska each year, I'm thoroughly familiar with ballistics. Slope distance on that shot vs angle of elevation meant the actual shot horizontal distance(confirmed later with GPS unit also) was appx 600 yards. The bottom duplex on that rifle is dead on at 600. Translates to a very simplistic and easy shot. I could have shot 20 rounds up that hill and hit each one. As it was I shot 2 rounds up there and hit on both. Second was only because the first round my buddy thought hit just a tiny bit low. It hit maybe a bit low in the lungs. Held for the spine to be safe and hit the spine(shot hit a bit high as I was thinking I'd center the lungs by holding that bit higher). My hunting buddy is one of the best 4H shooters we had in our group. I consider it an honor for him to scope and call the shots.
But back to the subject, that 338 win mag round is plenty flat enough if you do your part.
Jeff
Irresponsible to post it maybe. IE I don't suggest most folks take this type shot. I suggest most folks hold to about 300 yards due to wind drift issues mostly. But I read my rangefinder. What a cool day as there was no wind and no thermal effects on the uphill shot. Wide open hillside on the last day of the hunt. Tallest cover was appx 4 inches tall. No offense taken from your question at all. You'll see below why I took it.
I normally shoot between 4000 and 8000 rounds a year competitively with iron sights out to 1000 yards from position with a sling. No benches, no scopes. I hold a High Master card in both across the course(out to 600) and prone(out to 1000). Which means I hit 10s or Xs 97% of the time I fire a round. I am distinguished, hold a couple of Presidents 100 tabs.
Which means about squat to most. Its personal to me. I don't like to type it or brag it. I'm just a service rifle shooter with an AR15. And I enjoy it.
Having loaded ammo, and zero'd my buddies 338 win mag at the house before he leaves for Alaska each year, I'm thoroughly familiar with ballistics. Slope distance on that shot vs angle of elevation meant the actual shot horizontal distance(confirmed later with GPS unit also) was appx 600 yards. The bottom duplex on that rifle is dead on at 600. Translates to a very simplistic and easy shot. I could have shot 20 rounds up that hill and hit each one. As it was I shot 2 rounds up there and hit on both. Second was only because the first round my buddy thought hit just a tiny bit low. It hit maybe a bit low in the lungs. Held for the spine to be safe and hit the spine(shot hit a bit high as I was thinking I'd center the lungs by holding that bit higher). My hunting buddy is one of the best 4H shooters we had in our group. I consider it an honor for him to scope and call the shots.
But back to the subject, that 338 win mag round is plenty flat enough if you do your part.
Jeff
fisrtcoueswas80inches
Very Active Member
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thank for being civil in your response, there are some here who would have jumped down my throat for asking such a simple question. congrats
casey
casey
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rost495
Guest
Non civility gets you no where. I totally understood your question. I hate to burn up space with an answer but felt that a detailed answer was the only way to go. And to think when I started hunting a deer at 100 yards was pretty safe...... Years of shooting and years of bowhunting have taught me how to shoot accurately and how to control my emotions.
If everyone would be civil it would be great. Now if I could get an 80 inch Coues....
Jeff
If everyone would be civil it would be great. Now if I could get an 80 inch Coues....
Jeff
fisrtcoueswas80inches
Very Active Member
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lol my 80 inch coues was kina lucky. but none the less i did put a 80 inch coues on the ground. if ya come to the southwest, let me know (az)
casey
casey
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Boman
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Rost495,
Just wanted to say Congratulations on being Distinguished. What an amazing honor and accomplishment. I would hope nobody questions your shooting ability again. Anyways Congrats again.
Just wanted to say Congratulations on being Distinguished. What an amazing honor and accomplishment. I would hope nobody questions your shooting ability again. Anyways Congrats again.
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rost495
Guest
Sorry MTM
Dad had a pacemaker and defibrilator put in and they worked quite a while to stick in another lead to help the congestive heart failure. Combine with me tweaking my MZ and zeroing it and fixing the Willys to head to NM on Wed, I have not had time to go get the differences and post.
Basically the folks with the 338 off the 300 RUM case are getting 200 FPS over what the factory 338 RUM round does. Thats a significant improvement in most folks world. You can do the math. I am not saying its as flat as a 300 anything but the 338 bullets hold up pretty well and usually don't bump around in the wind quite as bad.
Again apologies for jumping in and then abandoning a thread. Got a bit busy here.
BTW isn't it weird that you can use the same amount of powder in differently shaped cases and sometimes have the same speeds, other times you gain or loose a couple hundred FPS along the way..... Go figure. Same for case design vs accuracy. Found that out playing with the 6.5 Grendel project.
Jeff
Dad had a pacemaker and defibrilator put in and they worked quite a while to stick in another lead to help the congestive heart failure. Combine with me tweaking my MZ and zeroing it and fixing the Willys to head to NM on Wed, I have not had time to go get the differences and post.
Basically the folks with the 338 off the 300 RUM case are getting 200 FPS over what the factory 338 RUM round does. Thats a significant improvement in most folks world. You can do the math. I am not saying its as flat as a 300 anything but the 338 bullets hold up pretty well and usually don't bump around in the wind quite as bad.
Again apologies for jumping in and then abandoning a thread. Got a bit busy here.
BTW isn't it weird that you can use the same amount of powder in differently shaped cases and sometimes have the same speeds, other times you gain or loose a couple hundred FPS along the way..... Go figure. Same for case design vs accuracy. Found that out playing with the 6.5 Grendel project.
Jeff
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rost495
Guest
Boman
Thanks. Its a small world when you actually find someone that has a clue as to what Dist. means. Or Presidents 100.
I am almost double distinguished with both pistol and service rifle. Only 10 points to go in pistol.
But the true privilege in my family is that I shoot with my wife, who is also a distinguished rifleman(woman). I am not sure I know of another wedded pair with that distinction. I'm much prouder of her accomplishments than mine.
I'd bet from your reply I'm speaking to another of our small crowd.
Thanks, Jeff
Thanks. Its a small world when you actually find someone that has a clue as to what Dist. means. Or Presidents 100.
I am almost double distinguished with both pistol and service rifle. Only 10 points to go in pistol.
But the true privilege in my family is that I shoot with my wife, who is also a distinguished rifleman(woman). I am not sure I know of another wedded pair with that distinction. I'm much prouder of her accomplishments than mine.
I'd bet from your reply I'm speaking to another of our small crowd.
Thanks, Jeff
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Boman
Guest
Jeff (rost495),
Thats really an amazing feat for you and your wife. She deserves a huge congrats also! You are a very lucky man to enjoy your sport with your spouse! I wish I could say that I am apart of that very elite group but I am not. I only know about those honors by way of reading and running into a gentleman at a range once who taught me alot. I found out later that he was Distinguished, so I read up about it as much as I could. I have a profound amount of respect for anyone that can accomplish such feats. Take care and if you get time please let us know when you become double distinguished and how your matches are going. Thanks and Take care
BTW- Sorry again for hijacking this thread. I shoot a .340wby and a .300Rum but can't comment on the .338Rum. I am very happy with my .340 though.
Thats really an amazing feat for you and your wife. She deserves a huge congrats also! You are a very lucky man to enjoy your sport with your spouse! I wish I could say that I am apart of that very elite group but I am not. I only know about those honors by way of reading and running into a gentleman at a range once who taught me alot. I found out later that he was Distinguished, so I read up about it as much as I could. I have a profound amount of respect for anyone that can accomplish such feats. Take care and if you get time please let us know when you become double distinguished and how your matches are going. Thanks and Take care
BTW- Sorry again for hijacking this thread. I shoot a .340wby and a .300Rum but can't comment on the .338Rum. I am very happy with my .340 though.
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rost495
Guest
MtMuley
Long time getting you an answer. Still not totally unpacked from NM hunt either
Going the 338 off the larger 300 case gets you appx 10 grains more capacity and 100 fps give or take.
To support my opinion here are my thoughts for whatever value they are. First I've used 300 mags of various calibers for years. Still have 2 at the moment. Normally they are just fine. But having hunted a few Nilgai they leave something to be desired for long range and non ideal shot angles. Having used 200 grain bullets I've encountered bullet failures and non ideal penetration(not total and complete). I've never lost an animal but a few required 2nd shots. Granted I'll give you the fact that had I been aware of and using X bullets instead of Partition I might not have quite had those incidences.
After using and seeing 338 calibers used quite a bit I tend to lean that direction for large or once in a lifetime game. I'm sure you can have failures even with the 338 but I've yet to see one. And since we are in the magnum range the recoil differences, cost of ammo etc... are all similar.
Why go to the wildcat version? I'm assuming that anyone thats serious enough to be on this forum is advanced. Such that factory ammo may not provide all the answers and as such that most folks are reloaders. If thats the case then I take case capacity as a plus. After all sometimes you just cannot get a top line velocity load to shoot well enough and if you have to back off some you are still at 338 RUM performance, not backing down into 338 Win area. IE I normally take what I can get for extra performance and from my competitive shooting sideline I'll take the chance of 100+ fps gain or .040 BC anyday and it'll help on out there past 300 yards.
I still agree with you that the 300s can do just about anything given the correct circumstances and they may seem better suited for smaller game encountered. But certainly if my main use for the gun were to be larger than mule deer I'll still lean towards the safety margin.
All that being said I don't have many in between guns myself. Its either 243 or 300 or larger. But I've got to be careful with using the 243 on larger game. You see I shot tons of hogs with a 22LR that folks wouldn't agree with. But I could afford to let em walk if I had to. I had a buddy that could never hit em in the ear and had to go to a centerfire. Did it mean the 22 didn't work? Nope, I"d let him shoot a hog and then I'd pick off one or two in the brush with my 22 pistol. Doesn't mean that I could shoot the 300 pounders running away though.
Basically it really boils down to circumstances. As I've often said, if you can afford to let the big elk walk away because the angle was wrong then you don't need the horsepower. I'm so far away from elk and the tags are so rare that I want that extra horsepower. Its a huge consideration in that I'll probably only have one moose tag in my life and I really want it there.
Hope that explains it a bit better. Sorry I've not put the pencil to the energy figures but under correct circumstances with the proper chamber and throat length, you can gain 200 fps and thats good in my books. The energy figures will increase along those same lines.
Jeff
Long time getting you an answer. Still not totally unpacked from NM hunt either
Going the 338 off the larger 300 case gets you appx 10 grains more capacity and 100 fps give or take.
To support my opinion here are my thoughts for whatever value they are. First I've used 300 mags of various calibers for years. Still have 2 at the moment. Normally they are just fine. But having hunted a few Nilgai they leave something to be desired for long range and non ideal shot angles. Having used 200 grain bullets I've encountered bullet failures and non ideal penetration(not total and complete). I've never lost an animal but a few required 2nd shots. Granted I'll give you the fact that had I been aware of and using X bullets instead of Partition I might not have quite had those incidences.
After using and seeing 338 calibers used quite a bit I tend to lean that direction for large or once in a lifetime game. I'm sure you can have failures even with the 338 but I've yet to see one. And since we are in the magnum range the recoil differences, cost of ammo etc... are all similar.
Why go to the wildcat version? I'm assuming that anyone thats serious enough to be on this forum is advanced. Such that factory ammo may not provide all the answers and as such that most folks are reloaders. If thats the case then I take case capacity as a plus. After all sometimes you just cannot get a top line velocity load to shoot well enough and if you have to back off some you are still at 338 RUM performance, not backing down into 338 Win area. IE I normally take what I can get for extra performance and from my competitive shooting sideline I'll take the chance of 100+ fps gain or .040 BC anyday and it'll help on out there past 300 yards.
I still agree with you that the 300s can do just about anything given the correct circumstances and they may seem better suited for smaller game encountered. But certainly if my main use for the gun were to be larger than mule deer I'll still lean towards the safety margin.
All that being said I don't have many in between guns myself. Its either 243 or 300 or larger. But I've got to be careful with using the 243 on larger game. You see I shot tons of hogs with a 22LR that folks wouldn't agree with. But I could afford to let em walk if I had to. I had a buddy that could never hit em in the ear and had to go to a centerfire. Did it mean the 22 didn't work? Nope, I"d let him shoot a hog and then I'd pick off one or two in the brush with my 22 pistol. Doesn't mean that I could shoot the 300 pounders running away though.
Basically it really boils down to circumstances. As I've often said, if you can afford to let the big elk walk away because the angle was wrong then you don't need the horsepower. I'm so far away from elk and the tags are so rare that I want that extra horsepower. Its a huge consideration in that I'll probably only have one moose tag in my life and I really want it there.
Hope that explains it a bit better. Sorry I've not put the pencil to the energy figures but under correct circumstances with the proper chamber and throat length, you can gain 200 fps and thats good in my books. The energy figures will increase along those same lines.
Jeff
