.300RUM etip vs barnes ttsx

lip_curl · Feb 26, 2009

mtmuley and huntindude...this is a continuation from a previous thread.

in a prior thread i had posted my results of getting etips @ 3300fps w/ 97gr retumbo out of my 26in model 700 300RUM. I was confused by the max rating of 92gr of retumbo on the barnes web page. since then i crept up on my etip load with barnes bullets pushed by 95 and 97gr of RETUMBO. With identical powder measured from the same scale, zero'd and loaded on the same day, then shot through the same rifle on the same day: i consistently got >3300 fps from the etip and 3250 from the barnes ttsx. I though the grooves were supposed to reduce friction and make the barnes faster? any thoughts? it was too windy last weekend to do any long range testing, but ill let you know how that goes next time....

huntindude · Feb 26, 2009

If you're shooting the same charge with both bullets I can see why the TSX might be a little slower, you'll have to up the load to max on it as well. it's kind of like if you drop to a lighter bullet it's faster, but you use more power too raise the pressure on the lighter bullet. the TSX will probably need more powder to reach max pressure but when you get it there it should be faster.

If you are at max on the TSX maybe it's just one of those things, 10 guns just alike will have 10 different loads they like best so never say never. but al things being equal I'll put my money on the grooved bullet being faster every time it just might take more powder to do it. a long smooth copper bullet with no grooves just can't be faster than one with reduced friction as a rule.

Who wants to bet Nosler has grooves one of these days? the two top copper bullet makers in the world do so there must be a reason.

REDDOG · Feb 26, 2009

its just like a hornaday btsp vs. a nosler partition, the hornady has less bearing surface, there for you have to burn more powder to equal the pressur's, and utitimetly, the one with less bearing surface gains more velocity.

same priciple with the tsx and the etip. but dude already said that!

mtmuley · Feb 28, 2009

I haven't seen the "groove" advantage. Besides, Barnes idea for the grooves was because of fouling issues. Now "the copper flows into the grooves" instead of being stuck on your barrel. Then they proclaimed reduced pressures. Velocities across the board do not show the Barnes grooved bullets having any significant advantage over "smooth" bullets like the E-Tip. dude, Nosler has been building bullets for over 60 years. Don't you think maybe one of their engineers pondered this groove thing? I am not knocking Barnes bullets. Some of the claims they make about their grooves are marketing hype, I bet. I don't know if Nosler will follow suit on the trend. If they do, well, I will eat a belly full of crow I guess. mtmuley

huntindude · Feb 28, 2009

The grooves do reduce friction, and physics say less friction will result in higher velocity with the proper powder charge. even if the only advantage is reduced fouling that's enough to grab my attention.

I live 40 miles from Nosler, and I know some of the guys on a personal level, they 're great guys and they make a great product but in the copper bullet line they're newbies. they'll catch up but in my opinion they're not the bullet Barnes is today, more ike the original X bullet that sucked. Nosler will have groves in the future, I'll bet a beer on that, what part about less pressure and less fouling would stop them?

mtmuley · Feb 28, 2009

We are on for the beer. Can ya get me a deal on E-Tips? LOL Seriously, Nosler's have worked so well for me for so many years, even through all the changes I have made in rifles and their changes in bullet design. Call me stubborn. Oh yeah, I like a local Montana brew called Moose Drool. mtmuley

Califelkslayer · Feb 28, 2009

Muley, is that where Moose Drool is from???? Damn good beer. I get it here in NE Kali, on tap @ the local redneck hangout. Haven't had one since Thurs.

huntindude · Mar 1, 2009

Nerxt time I get to Bend I'll check on the E tips for you, you want .30 180's? maybe that's still all they make I haven't kept up on them. I'll try to get there for you before they wise up and add the grooves.

mtmuley · Mar 1, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-09 AT 05:21PM (MST)[p]Groovy dude, .30 180's is what I'm shooting. Since you know these Nosler guys, you aren't hiding something are you? slayer, Moose Drool is made in Missoula, Montana. It is damn good, isn't it? mtmuley

huntindude · Mar 4, 2009

Well I was in Nosler's pro shop yesterday, they don't have diddly for seconds right now and no e tips. Mike wasn't there but the fellow running the shop said that the E tip is made from guilding metal and Barnes is solid copper, so the grooves may not be as effective. to me it seems the harder alloy in the e tip should make it not expand as well, but since I haven't used them I can't say.

They make no bones about it that the E tip builds more pressure do to the longer bearing surface, and they are playing with ways to reduce it but that's about all I could get out of him.

REDDOG · Mar 4, 2009

I see Hornady put grooves in thier new mono bullets.

huntindude · Mar 4, 2009

Well there you have it, same material as an E tip and with the grooves. still, wouldn't it seem like pure copper would expand better? maybe not , but I think I'll stick with the TTSX until someone can prove an advantage with the guilding metal.

mtmuley · Mar 4, 2009

The bull I killed last fall didn't like gilding metal at all. mtmuley

Damer · Mar 8, 2009

How is the long range performance with the TTSX on game and target accurracy out of the 300 RUM?

REDDOG · Mar 8, 2009

well they aint a target boolit, but you could shoot a wooden dowl out of a 300 RUM and it would be leathal to 1000+ yards.

cbeard · Mar 9, 2009

OK you guys are smart on this stuff and I am not. Here's my question:

What are the advantages of the TTSX over the TSX in a .30 cal. 180 grain bullet?

(I strictly use them for hunting with a maximum range of 400 yards in my Win Pre-64 .300 WM-my rifle loves them and I get good groups)

Thanks for helping a ballistics rookie, Clay.

cbeard · Mar 9, 2009

Sorry-to clarify I currently use the TSX....

huntindude · Mar 9, 2009

I'm trying to get some 180 TTSX's and I can't find any. the only advantage might be a slightly higher BC and faster and expansion at long rang where velocity has dropped off.

I've taken animals from 60 to near 400 yards with TSX's in my 300 win mag and 270 WBY and had perfect performance every time. I'm thinking I might go to the TTSX just because where I hunt elk 300 to 400 yard shots can happen, the faster expansion might help a little and if I get a 50 yard shot I know the bullet will perform just fine. either way they're both great.