348 gr. Powerbelt for elk

P

Pygmy

Guest
My .50 cal. T/C Hawken shoots this bullet quite accurately with 100 grains of 777.... I'd like to use it for elk this fall...

I'd like to hear some reports on the performance of this projectile on elk, good or bad...
 
Well think about it, 348 grains is huge, People kill elk with little arrows and even a center fire rifle people are killing elk with 120 grain bullets. I think the 348 is plenty of bullet for an elk. Go with it and good luck, Dont worry about the weight just put a good shot on the elk and enjoy.


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I am using the 348 aerotip with 90 grains of 777. I have killed an elk with powerbelts, but it was a 405 gr in a 54 caliber. I see no reason why the 348 shouldn't do the job, as with any bullet, with proper bullet placement

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
know dought its the placement that counts,
a good shot in the foot even with the best bullets money can buy, and you can count on an empty freezer.
i shot and lost my elk last year, why it wasn't the bullet but the location of the projectiles contact point that proved to be the problem,
a pass thru in the fatty part of the neck and he kept on elking, as elk do.
I'm hoping i don't get drawn this year,
that way i can get an over the counter bow lic.
 
Use the coppers... HPs or Aeros.. it really doesn't matter!

The lead hollows have issues with breaking up too easily. They may be fine for thinner skinned game like deer, but I wouldn't chance them on elk.

"Sometimes we're the dog -- sometimes we're the fire hydrant"
 
I shot a copper 50 cal. 348 HP powerbelt with 100gr. of 777 last year into a antelope and it did a good job killing the buck. I must say however the bullet really fragmented. With a heart shot that also hit the bucks elbow, that bullet completely broke apart into three pieces and did not exit. Like I say, dead antelope but not a tough bullet IMO. I will not be using Power Belts for elk in any size HP or Aero Tip.
 
Pygmy,"Asking" about PowerBelts,You must be Going or Wanting to hunt Col.this Fall for ELK ???.If not Col,some other state where "Sabots" are Not Allowed.

If Col is Your destination,in 2004,then the "PowerBelts are the BEST you can hope for.Me and My partner hunted Col in "03"and because of Muz Regs,used the "348",shot accurate enough,"BUT"didn't do the job,on a Legal Bull.On a Good lung shot,bullet came apart and took out only 1 lung,ended up loosing elk.I'd recomend the "405" or even "Larger" grn PowerBelts for Elk.Good hunting to ALL in "04" ---
 
Yes, I do expect to draw in Colorado this year for elk...I've applied in unit 76 and I have 9 points..

I've killed about a dozen deer with my .50 cal. sidelock but I've always used patched round balls, with excellent results, I might add..I figured that the PRB in .50 was on the light side for elk...

Several of the posters suggest that the copper PB bullets are tougher than the lead.. I'd like to use it if the performance is adequate because they are accurate in my rifle... I haven't played with bullets heavier than 400 grains because I understand that they may not stabilize in my 1 in 48" barrel...
 
Pygmy,
With a .007" copper coating, Powerbelts are coated so the shooter can push them faster without leading the barrel, not to make them tougher. Aero Tips are designed to control expansion and are a little tougher.
If I were you, I would get a rifle with a faster twist barrel and shoot Ultimate 1 Conicals from PR Bullets. I cannot trust Powerbelts anymore...but then again lots of people do.
I just think for muzzleloading elk you can't go wrong with the biggest, baddest bullet you can slam them with. Good luck.
 
OSOK:from "Conversation" with Partner,as WE looked for Col elk in "03" NO angle as shot was taken from 75 yds,a couple of ribs back from shoulder,but a little High,posibly.Lung blood was present,but from only one side of trail ???.Borderline hit,maybe,but with a Heavier bullet i.e.405 PowerBelt.probally a pass through and "BOTH" lungs taken out.

Go with as Heavy a bullet that Your "Smokepole" will shoot accuratly,We owe it to "THE" animals ---
 
I have a TC Hawken with a 1 in 48 and I use the old 370 g TC maxi-ball. Very accurate,they will do a good job within 100 yards on elk.
 
I used a 348 grain pb aerotip to kill an elk last season. It was sitting on top of 150 grains of pyrodex. It was a 200 yard shot taken with a T/C Encore. The pb broke a shoulder, rib, went through the aorta and lung and rested on the off side. The pb expanded perfectly and had 76% weight retention. Mike
 
fairchase- The guy asks a question about a bullet and your answer is to go out and buy a different rifle. Most people don't have that kind of dinero just laying around.
 
Samson,
His options are rather limited here, he can't use a sabot and he doesn't think his gun will shoot long, heavy bullets very well. Now, I appreciate the fact that hunters use 348gr PB?s with great success, (if you haven't seen MF?s elk photo from last year it is truly a beautiful, mature bull and that's great)I just don't have faith in PB?s anymore and confidence in your equipment is big. So that being said, I'll stick by my recommendation, he either needs to find a bullet he has faith in and that shoots well in his 1-48 twist, or get a different barrel or rifle.
Oregon has almost the same regs. as Colorado and for elk in Oregon I choose a 525gr. Ultimate 1 Conical and a rifle with a 1-24 twist and it was nothing short of a tack driver. So, that is what I would shoot for Colorado too. What do you recommend? BTW anybody applying for almost a decade, can afford a few bones for a new rifle, if indeed that's what is needed, don't you think?
 
Does the 525 gr conical meet the Colorado requirement that it can't be over twice as long as its diameter? Should be close, if not over the limit.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-04 AT 11:53AM (MST)[p]That ought to knock just about anything on its butt! Course I bet it packs quite a punch on your shoulder too.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-04 AT 10:59AM (MST)[p]Azbiggame said: "Me and My partner hunted Col in "03"and because of Muz Regs,used the "348",shot accurate enough,"BUT"didn't do the job,on a Legal Bull.On a Good lung shot,bullet came apart and took out only 1 lung,ended up loosing elk"

Most of this statement is suposition since you didn't recover the elk. All of us have lost animals regardless of the weapon or bullet, and it hurts like hell. However, since you didn't find the bull or bullet, we can't be sure that the bullet failed. If the bullet placement was as you described, it should have gone through both lungs and the bull should have been dead within 1/2 mile and the bull was just not found. That there was blood on only one side is only an indication that the bullet did not exit on the far side. And an entrance wound usually doen't bleed as long as an exit wound. Also, maybe the bull turned slightly at the very last second and the bullet took out one lung and then entered the paunch. I have had that happen with a high powered rifle and had a very long trail to follow too.

Of course a muzzy bullet doesn't kill like an 06 with shock, but by blowing a bigass hole through tissue. In a way, its killing powere is between an arrow and a high powered bullet. I give animals more time to die after a muzzy shot than an 06 because of this. I also try and cow call after shooting a bull to try and keep him in the area after a shot. That is a trick I learned from some really good elk hunters. Of course it is easier if you have a partner to call so you can reload, but I don't follow up on a muzzy shot immediately if he runs out of sight.

Not saying that I am a better tracker than you or that I would have found the bull, but part of muzzy hunting is accepting that game may run farther and have be be tracked more. That is part of the equation. I also know another guy who was complaining about a powerbelt bullet because it did not exit a cow he shot. He didn't find it for 1/2 an hour and then it was less than 50 yards from where it was when he shot. His bullet was under the skin on the far side and therefore didn't leave a blood trail. I asked him at what point in killing an elk in less than 50 yards did the bullet fail him. Regardless, he almost didn't find the elk because of thick brush.

I think a lot of it is confidence in your choice. Since you have lost confidence, you should probably try another bullet. I am still experimenting and want to see if my gun shoots 405's as accurately as 348's. I am also going to try the 390 grain unltimate 1 spitzer conical by precision bullets. I have heard good things about that bullet too, both in accuracy and terminal performance.

Good hunting.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
TX,

Cough, cough. Wheew. Had to clear my throat first! I was going to say something. Havin been out on vaca for a week, and coming back. You took exactly what I would have tried to say and made it understandable! :D

I fully agree... A one lunged elk w/ any weapon is more often then not, a lost animal! And, especially when not handled w/ time like you explained above. Out of 11 elk I have killed w/ a bow, I have lost 1, and it was do to the exact reason you stated. The animal turned during the shot, which I was unaware of. By the time I went in to retrieve the animal 1 hour + later, it was too late. Evidence was clear from the blood in his bed that the exit wound was indeed further back than I had anticipated, w/ dark blood. Entry wound was light foamy lung blood. That elk still bumped off his bed after nearly an hour and thirty minutes from the time I went back to get help and when we went back in after him...

I'm going in w/ the 348's this year w/ no inhibitions about them!
 
My friend and I used 348gr hollowpoint powerbelts on a Colorado Elk/Deer hunt a couple years ago. Both using Knight rifles with 150gr Triple 7.
He had a broadside shot at a 4x4 bull that ran off as though untouched. We searched extensively, tracked him by hoofprints alone but no sign of a hit. We assumed a miss.
Then I had a shot at a 6x6 bull that turned (quartering in) at the shot causing me to hit him in the shoulder ( at least I suspect) instead of the ribs. He whirled and ran- limping slightly on the front left and lagging behind his cows.
We watched him cross a large clearcut into a ravine and up into the timber. It was not difficult to following tracks through the heavily grazed clearcut- but we found no blood. We searched that day then returned the next day and grid searched the timber with no luck. The shot felt good and we were puzzled how things could've gone so wrong.
Since we didn't recover either bull we'll never know what really happened.
Later in the hunt my friend shot a nice 4x4 mule deer at a bit over a 100yds. The buck dropped at the shot and stayed down for a few seconds- then up and running. We found a few drops of blood where he dropped but no blood trail. After a couple hours of tracking he found the deer down but alive about a half mile away. He finished it with a neck shot. The first shot flattened on the near shoulder just getting into chest cavity. The second shot broke the neck but did not exit- the bullet fragmenting into tiny pieces.
Then I shot 4x4 mule deer at 90-100yrs- dropped at the shot and stayed down. The bullet shattered the near shoulder and went to pieces- almost looking like molten lead splattered in the wound. No further penetration.
After the dismal penetration on the mule deer- we suspect much the same thing happened on the elk - but the bigger tougher elk were able to escape.
We really like the accuracy and easy loading of the Powerbelt but I would not use the hollowpoints on elk. Between the two us we have probably "autopsied" over a hundred big game animals with a wide variety of projectiles and this was some of the most shallow penetration we've ever seen. I will try the flatnose and aerotip on some testing medium before I dismiss them completely for this years hunt.
I'm sure they would do a bangup job on a perfect between the ribs broadside shot- but I don't get that many 'perfect' chances. Even on a double lung hit I would prefer an exit hole on elk.
Dean
 
I assume that you used powder 777 for Colorado? If so, did you really use 150 grains of loose powder? That would be the equivalent of about 175 grains BP/pyrodex. Don't think I would want to shoot that load out of my Omega. If so, I actually wonder if you had too much "Ophff" on the bullet. You are shooting a projectile (hollowpoint) that probably does its thing better at slower speeds. Probably not as likely to open up so fast at 100 grains of 777 as compared to 150 grains. Could overkill have been a problem, especially if at close range? Just curious.

I am going to be using the 348 or 405 aerotip this fall shooting 90 grains of 777. Should have more than enough power out to 100 yards which is my max range.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
In my opinion, the lead Powerbelts are a waste of money. Buy the coppers instead.

"Sometimes we're the dog -- sometimes we're the fire hydrant"
 
Of course he may have used copper covered bullets, since they make hollowpoints with copper too. I have never used their pure lead ones, just copper.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Yes, we used 150gr loose 777 for Colorado. I use 3 50gr pellets here in Michigan. I used the same load in my TC gun before I switched to the Knight. I checked with Hodgdon and Thompson Center before I tried it- and it works great.
We used the "copper" Powerbelt bullets. However it is more of a copper wash and appears to do little or nothing to control expansion. It it by no stretch of the imagination a "jacket" like you'd find in a centerfire rifle/pistol bullet.
As far as being too powerful of a load - I suppose it's possible. However the extra 50grs is not a dramatic performance difference. I'll chronograph a couple shots and let you know what numbers I get- but if my load is too powerful at a 100yds- surely yours will be too powerful at 50!!
I'm wondering if they use a softer lead (less antimony?) than some other brands.
I was hoping Barnes would come up with something 'Colorado Legal'. I talked to them almost two years ago- and they said they were working on it...
Sure can't beat the powerbelt design for ease of use- just need to tweak the toughness up a little.

Dean
 
If they told you that it was ok to use 150 grains of loose powder, I would get that in writing. Therefore if it does blow up in your face, your widow can get lots of money!! LOL

Seriously though, I can't imagine that they would officially condone 150 grains of loose powder since that is the equivalent of about 172.5 grains (according to the makers of 777) I will bet that 777 people won't tell you it is ok.

Remember 150 grains of pelleted 777 = 150 grains pyrodex

But loose powder is 15% stronger, therefore = 172.5 gr.

Good hunting

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
All I know, is my gun boots like a motha w/ 100 grains of 777 and 348's. 150 grains would flat out seperate my poor lil shoulder! ;)
 
150 gr of 777 man try shooting some 295 and you should have a muzz that has some Vel. to it.
 
I think you may have found a way to finance your Colorado trip. Post the states that you will be stopping in and sell tickets for a look see at someone trying to blow themself up.
 
I appreciate your concern;-), but I did check with Hodgdon, Thompson Center and Knight before I used the load.
I think some of you are misunderstanding the 15% thing. Per Hodgdon- Triple 7 is safe when used as a VOLUME equivilent for blackpowder. Triple 7 is as safe but performs better in the same VOLUME. If you read the precautions carefully they say if you want to equal the VELOCITY of black powder you will have to reduce the load. Why would I want to reduce the performance to that of blackpowder? Your 150gr 777=172gr blackpowder is an improper mathematical estimate using performance chacteristics percentages to determne safe pressures.
Saying that the pellets are less powerful is also a big mistake! Yes, the pellets weigh less, but their design (hole through the middle) improves ignition in an in-line gun. Often the pellets are hotter than the loose load because it burns better. You have to be careful when you start weighing things- remember Triple 7 and Pyrodex are VOLUME equivilents to blackpowder. You are not supposed to weight charges!
I'm sure Hodgdon will be very careful about load info because they don't know what people will stuff it into. Check with your firearm manufacturer- My Knight and my previous TC Black Diamond were designed for loads up to 150gr of blackpowder or equivilent. The only caution I've seen on the 150gr load is for very heavy (400gr +) bullets. If you want to shoot 90gr out of a modern muzzleloader that's your choice. I use a muzzleloader so I can hunt bugle season with something with a little more range than my bow. I'm not into the Flintlock mountain man thing and I hate the mess and stink of blackpowder.
As to recoil- not that bad. Less than many magnum centerfires I own.

Dean
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-04 AT 00:03AM (MST)[p]"Saying that the pellets are less powerful is also a big mistake! Yes, the pellets weigh less, but their design (hole through the middle) improves ignition in an in-line gun. Often the pellets are hotter than the loose load because it burns better."

Mtgoat,
I shoot 777 and between the pellets, FF, and FFF pellets are the slowest. So, you may want to run some shots through a chronograph before you start telling us about your theories.

Last I checked two 50 gr. pellets and 100gr of loose powder weigh the same.
 
Fairchase,
Wasn't my theory- based on what I read. With large doses of loose Pyrodex and Triple 7 the burning can be incomplete causing less performance than pellets. Hence the new "power stem" technology by Knight. I will chronograph some 150gr loose and pellet loads and see exactly how my gun does.
On my electronic reloading scale I show an average weight of 38gr for "50gr volume" of loose Triple 7 FFG. The 50gr pellets weigh an avg of 30grs. I'm sure volume measures and techniques vary but thats what I get.
Maybe you could share your chronograph results with 150gr loads? I'm looking for a new combination for elk too, and I'd be interested in opinions from other experienced hunters.
I'm not trying to sell anybody on the 150gr load- I only posted on the load info as background to my problem with Powerbelt bullets. Some others questioned my use of the load and suggested my life was in immediate danger:). I was just trying to explain that I had read the precautions and checked with the manufacturers who said it should be fine in my setup.
I apologize to others as this has gotten a little off topic-arguing powder loads instead of bullet perforance.

Dean
 
Not sure about the powerbelts,but I shoot a 300 grain barnes bullet with 100 grain pyro pellets. I've killed 3 bucks with this load and two of the three dropped like a box of rocks. The other buck, I hit through the liver and he only went about 50yds. I recovered the bullet from one of the bucks. The bullet passed through both shoulders and loged between the skin on the oppisite side. The bullet expanded perfectly and retained almost 100 percent of the orignal weight.

cabinfever
 

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