elkhuntn247
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Im in the market for some new binoculars. Want to spend around 500. So far I have been looking at some zen ray ed2 10x43. whats your guys opinion?
500.00 bino budget
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Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
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My opinion is, save a couple hundred more and buy used Leica, Zeiss, or Swarovski's.
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
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I was VERY impressed by the Zenray. I am a swaro man myself but a buddy got the Zenray and they are pretty dang nice for the price. Check out camerland for some deals on them.
bonepicker
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I got a pair of new Steiner Peregrines for $500 in December (bought them from a guy here on Monster Muleys), they retail for $1700. I love them, I was hesitant because I heard people bash them but they are great. You could look online and see what you could get a pair of them for now. My two cents.
elkhuntn247
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My dad has some el swaros that are really nice. I do have some swaros im lookin at that are slc but I am trying not to spend a grand lol but I might have to ha
S
SteveC
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-11 AT 06:03PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-11 AT 02:10?PM (MST)
It's going to take more than a couple of hundred extra to get a used alpha. With today's technology there is really no need to go over $500. The alpha glass is better to be sure, but is really overpriced for the amount of improvement they offer.
There are really three binoculars I can recommend, by owning all three, that fit your needs. They are the ZEN ED 2 which you already have in mind. They are $425. Then there is the Theron Wapiti APO-ED. These are very bright, have sharp edges and will cost less than $400. The last and maybe the best is the Kruger Caldera at less than $400.
It's going to take more than a couple of hundred extra to get a used alpha. With today's technology there is really no need to go over $500. The alpha glass is better to be sure, but is really overpriced for the amount of improvement they offer.
There are really three binoculars I can recommend, by owning all three, that fit your needs. They are the ZEN ED 2 which you already have in mind. They are $425. Then there is the Theron Wapiti APO-ED. These are very bright, have sharp edges and will cost less than $400. The last and maybe the best is the Kruger Caldera at less than $400.
Foreman4x4
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-11 AT 03:30PM (MST)[p]>It's going to take more than
>a couple of hundred extra
>to get a used alpha.
> With today's technology there
>is really no need to
>go over $500. The
>alpha glass is better to
>be sure, but is really
>overpriced for the amount of
>improvement they offer.
Really? I know a guy who scored a Swarovski 10x42 SLC and a 2x doubler for $700.00 off this very board. Trip the doubler on Ebay and you have $500.00 SLC's.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID49/2167.html
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID49/2170.html
>a couple of hundred extra
>to get a used alpha.
> With today's technology there
>is really no need to
>go over $500. The
>alpha glass is better to
>be sure, but is really
>overpriced for the amount of
>improvement they offer.
Really? I know a guy who scored a Swarovski 10x42 SLC and a 2x doubler for $700.00 off this very board. Trip the doubler on Ebay and you have $500.00 SLC's.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID49/2167.html
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID49/2170.html
Foreman4x4
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Also wanted to add, there's some great mid-range binos out there these days, but given a choice, I'll spend my money on known quality, even if it costs a bit more.
S
SteveC
Guest
OK, but seriously ONE example does not indicate a trend. Everybody stumbles on a hell of a deal on occassion. And that's all it is, is on occasion.
If you want to spend $$$ for optics fine. The question was for a $500 binocular. I try to stay on subject when I answer a question. Sometimes I even manage to do that.
If you want to spend $$$ for optics fine. The question was for a $500 binocular. I try to stay on subject when I answer a question. Sometimes I even manage to do that.
Foreman4x4
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I stayed on subject, the guy asked for opinions didn't he? And if a person is patient, there's plenty of deals out there on good quality glass. In the last 9-months to a year I've seen $650.00 10x42 Leica Geovids, $800.00 10x42 EL's, $500.00 12x50 Leica BN's, the previously listed $700.00 10x42 SLC's and 2x doubler, and so on, and so on, and so on.
I have the early version of Zen Ray ED 10x43 and they are fantastic bargain. Not sure about your hunting style but for me personally the 10x while very good, makes me want 15x alphas.
Or 8x alphas and spotting scope. I would add that the resale on the alphas is better and the durability I am sure is better. That being said, if you are on a tight budget you can't beat these Chinese wonders in the $400.00 range, (ZR ED2 awesome) you may find a super deal on ebay!
Or 8x alphas and spotting scope. I would add that the resale on the alphas is better and the durability I am sure is better. That being said, if you are on a tight budget you can't beat these Chinese wonders in the $400.00 range, (ZR ED2 awesome) you may find a super deal on ebay!
S
SteveC
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-11 AT 06:02PM (MST)[p]You evidently have plenty of time to check that out 
. However, you always reply about a deal that was just scored by somebody. You seem to have plenty of time for that and to tell everybody who asks about less expensive glass to be patient and save up. It would be more useful if you used this knowledge you seem to have to point the OP at a good alpha deal he can get now. I have looked quite a bit for good deals like you mention on used glass, but it seems to me far less prevalent than you seem to think (but I wish I could find one like that). Telling somebody to be patient may not work too well for somebody who needs optics now. On the other hand, it may have some usefulness if someone does have the several months to look for deals. However, there are plenty of outright scams out there. On the famous auction site they are always dealing with obvious scam artist attempts to sell a high quality binocular at a seemingly ridiculous price. The urge to score a deal may prove to be costly. I have seen more questionable deals than otherwise. What I have seen on what I consider legitimate deals sees good glass for more like $1,000-1,200. That is still a lot more than $500 mid price glass. The best legit looking thing I saw recently was for a like NIB Leica Duovid demo for $1,400 from a truly legit dealer. A call produced an "oops I guess I should update the website". Another deal ona forum classified (another forum) had a very good Swarovski EL for $1,200 and it did not last very long at that price. I personally think it is better to take a chance (no chance really) on ordering a new mid price glass from Doug at Cameraland where you can return for a refund or buy from a dealer where you can see for yourself what it is you are getting, rather than to throw several hundred dollars at who knows who. Or keep up to date on his Demo deals and special sales. Classifieds on forums like this should be good places though as usually somebody selling has some history on the forum and thus some sort of visibility.
But you are right, opinions were asked for, and that is what he got for sure. The OP knows what I would recommend in his range, and he knows what you think he should do. That is the great thing about chioces I suppose.
. However, you always reply about a deal that was just scored by somebody. You seem to have plenty of time for that and to tell everybody who asks about less expensive glass to be patient and save up. It would be more useful if you used this knowledge you seem to have to point the OP at a good alpha deal he can get now. I have looked quite a bit for good deals like you mention on used glass, but it seems to me far less prevalent than you seem to think (but I wish I could find one like that). Telling somebody to be patient may not work too well for somebody who needs optics now. On the other hand, it may have some usefulness if someone does have the several months to look for deals. However, there are plenty of outright scams out there. On the famous auction site they are always dealing with obvious scam artist attempts to sell a high quality binocular at a seemingly ridiculous price. The urge to score a deal may prove to be costly. I have seen more questionable deals than otherwise. What I have seen on what I consider legitimate deals sees good glass for more like $1,000-1,200. That is still a lot more than $500 mid price glass. The best legit looking thing I saw recently was for a like NIB Leica Duovid demo for $1,400 from a truly legit dealer. A call produced an "oops I guess I should update the website". Another deal ona forum classified (another forum) had a very good Swarovski EL for $1,200 and it did not last very long at that price. I personally think it is better to take a chance (no chance really) on ordering a new mid price glass from Doug at Cameraland where you can return for a refund or buy from a dealer where you can see for yourself what it is you are getting, rather than to throw several hundred dollars at who knows who. Or keep up to date on his Demo deals and special sales. Classifieds on forums like this should be good places though as usually somebody selling has some history on the forum and thus some sort of visibility.But you are right, opinions were asked for, and that is what he got for sure. The OP knows what I would recommend in his range, and he knows what you think he should do. That is the great thing about chioces I suppose
.
elkhuntn247
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Thanks for the input guys! before you know it scouting time will be here! so Im trying to get everything ready to rock!
Timberbuck
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I would spend just a little more and buy a pair of those Minox german HG's (demos or salemans samples) for around $600 from Doug at cameralandny.com. Check out the classifieds for the post.
elkhuntn247
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I have also been looking at the minox glass too. They seem to be pretty nice. Very sharp and clear. I have also found a few god deals on them
cacklercrazy
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I got a pair of hg 10x43 minox's from camerland and I love them.
never_catch
Long Time Member
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The link below has the two greatest deals on BRAND NEW bino's right now (IMO)...my bro in law just bought the original ED's and received them in 2 business days. 8 other family members of mine now have Zen Ray ED and ED2 binos. I honest to God can't tell a difference between the two and I've had both 8x43's. Same glass different coatings...I can see thru both lol!!
I STILL DO NOT WORK FOR ZEN RAY OR ANY DEALER BUT THESE ARE BADASS DEALS...just sayin!!
http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/demo.html
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
I STILL DO NOT WORK FOR ZEN RAY OR ANY DEALER BUT THESE ARE BADASS DEALS...just sayin!!
http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/demo.html
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
BPKHunter
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Well no one has asked what you will use the bino's for. Do you live in wooded country where you will be glassing a half mile or less or like me here in Idaho do you live where you can glass as far as the optics and conditions will allow. Here in Idaho I use 15x and 8x bino's in combination and can get every bit out of the high dollar alphas. It seems to me you can find a pair of alpha's in 8x30's for a few hundred more than your budget, which is all you need for a half mile and picking through the thick stuff..light weight and better field of view too at 8x30. To get the large 40-44mm lens models, you will likely need to spend $1200+, and that isn't for new and latest versions.
As has been mentioned here there are some good and maybe even very good quality B tier brands, like the Zen Ray and Minox for which there are many positive posts. The BUT here is if you spend $500 now, you are likely to have to sell those for little bit of nothing some day when you can afford the alpha's which will be $1800-$2500 at the time or you can find a way to buy them now for much less. For example, I bought my 15x SLC's new for $1700 at Cabela's in 2006 and today they sell for $2300 at the same store. I bought my 8x30 slc's for $700 at Sportsman's in 2007 and today they sell for no less than $850. I bought my Swaro 65mmHD Spotter for $1800 w/ eyepiece in 2007 which sells for no less than $2400. Granted I got a good deal on some purchases, but the current costs are on close outs of older version not the newest one's either. That inflation rate calculates out to between 5% an 10% a year. Don't look at it as an investment as you won't want to sell these to pay bills in the future, look at it simply as the cost to get in the game.
I agree that you pay a lot for the small difference between the A and B tier optics, but you can't shoot what you can't find and I believe there is NO more important tool in the west for hunting Mule Deer, Elk, Goats, and Sheep than binos. Bino's are more important than rifles/scopes/spotters. The only people that seem to post that the B tier brands are better in the FIELD are the people who don't own them and use them long term. Also, I have had tremendous service from Swarovski..and not because I have had problems but because I use them so much I need to replace the eye cups and lens covers every couple years and have yet to have to even pay for them.
Either decision has flaws because on one hand you won't have the best and on the other you may spend more than you can afford, but either way you will have fun this summer and fall with them so good luck.
PS While I have not bought from Doug at Camera Land no one seems to have a better reputation for good service and good prices based on probably 1000's of posts here, but you should keep you eye on Cabela's bargain bin for earlier Swaro models in conjunction with their coupon's for up to $200 off and possible 6mo 0% financing as a low cost benchmark also.
As has been mentioned here there are some good and maybe even very good quality B tier brands, like the Zen Ray and Minox for which there are many positive posts. The BUT here is if you spend $500 now, you are likely to have to sell those for little bit of nothing some day when you can afford the alpha's which will be $1800-$2500 at the time or you can find a way to buy them now for much less. For example, I bought my 15x SLC's new for $1700 at Cabela's in 2006 and today they sell for $2300 at the same store. I bought my 8x30 slc's for $700 at Sportsman's in 2007 and today they sell for no less than $850. I bought my Swaro 65mmHD Spotter for $1800 w/ eyepiece in 2007 which sells for no less than $2400. Granted I got a good deal on some purchases, but the current costs are on close outs of older version not the newest one's either. That inflation rate calculates out to between 5% an 10% a year. Don't look at it as an investment as you won't want to sell these to pay bills in the future, look at it simply as the cost to get in the game.
I agree that you pay a lot for the small difference between the A and B tier optics, but you can't shoot what you can't find and I believe there is NO more important tool in the west for hunting Mule Deer, Elk, Goats, and Sheep than binos. Bino's are more important than rifles/scopes/spotters. The only people that seem to post that the B tier brands are better in the FIELD are the people who don't own them and use them long term. Also, I have had tremendous service from Swarovski..and not because I have had problems but because I use them so much I need to replace the eye cups and lens covers every couple years and have yet to have to even pay for them.
Either decision has flaws because on one hand you won't have the best and on the other you may spend more than you can afford, but either way you will have fun this summer and fall with them so good luck.
PS While I have not bought from Doug at Camera Land no one seems to have a better reputation for good service and good prices based on probably 1000's of posts here, but you should keep you eye on Cabela's bargain bin for earlier Swaro models in conjunction with their coupon's for up to $200 off and possible 6mo 0% financing as a low cost benchmark also.
>...you can't
>shoot what you can't find
>and I believe there is
>NO more important tool in
>the west for hunting Mule
>Deer, Elk, Goats, and Sheep
>than binos. Bino's are
>more important than rifles/scopes/spotters.
>The only people that seem
>to post that the B
>tier brands are better in
>the FIELD are the people
>who don't own them and
>use them long term...
I have used the Zen Ray ED 10x43 for 3 years and I am moving up to alpha glass! The only reason I can see for not buying into the alpha brands is if there is absolutely no way you can afford to get in. The B tier glass is excellent and will work well, but the thing about hunting in the West, is that 10% edge can make or break a hunt.
I would add, that no matter how aggressive the B tier marketing gets, the hard true facts of in the field performance of the alpha's ensure a permanent market.
>shoot what you can't find
>and I believe there is
>NO more important tool in
>the west for hunting Mule
>Deer, Elk, Goats, and Sheep
>than binos. Bino's are
>more important than rifles/scopes/spotters.
>The only people that seem
>to post that the B
>tier brands are better in
>the FIELD are the people
>who don't own them and
>use them long term...
I have used the Zen Ray ED 10x43 for 3 years and I am moving up to alpha glass! The only reason I can see for not buying into the alpha brands is if there is absolutely no way you can afford to get in. The B tier glass is excellent and will work well, but the thing about hunting in the West, is that 10% edge can make or break a hunt.
I would add, that no matter how aggressive the B tier marketing gets, the hard true facts of in the field performance of the alpha's ensure a permanent market.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
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That's the point I've tried to make for several years; buy once, cry once.
I remember when the Pentax WP's came out; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. Then the Pentax SP's came out; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss. Then Kahles hit the market; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss. Minox came on board; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. Vortex popped up; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. Now Zen-Ray is the new kid on the block and guys claim they're the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss.
Long and short of it is, there's no free lunches when it comes to glass and the only thing equal to Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss, is Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss.
I remember when the Pentax WP's came out; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. Then the Pentax SP's came out; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss. Then Kahles hit the market; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss. Minox came on board; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. Vortex popped up; guys said they were the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. Now Zen-Ray is the new kid on the block and guys claim they're the equal of Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss.
Long and short of it is, there's no free lunches when it comes to glass and the only thing equal to Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss, is Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss.
woodruffhunter
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-11 AT 09:45PM (MST)[p]A previous poster said that it's not worth the extra $$$ to pay for such little different in Alpha Glass. I wonder if people that say this have ever hunted with so called "Alpha" glass? If not, why would a comment be made?
Back to the point. If you insist on $500 or less, look at Minox. I bought my wife a pair and the are very nice; far superior than the Monarchs I own.
I picked up a pair of 10X42 SLC's for $850. They are worth every penny. Best of luck!
Back to the point. If you insist on $500 or less, look at Minox. I bought my wife a pair and the are very nice; far superior than the Monarchs I own.
I picked up a pair of 10X42 SLC's for $850. They are worth every penny. Best of luck!
elkhuntn247
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Nice catch.
Thanks for the link! thats a deal!
Thanks for all the advice guys!
Thanks for the link! thats a deal!
Thanks for all the advice guys!
dryflyelk
Active Member
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Go with the Zens - get those demo ones from that link. That's a hella deal.
I've had 'em all. Right now I own the swarovisions, 8x32 EL and the 15x SLC. I've had Leica, Zeiss, Minox, and quite a few others.
I've used those ZRs for a while, and owned a pair. They are flat out fantastic, especially for the price. The difference between the alphas and the knock offs is getting smaller every year.
I would not hesitate to get the ZRs. You'll love them, and I can guarantee you'll never feel handicapped because of your glass. Matter of fact, stacked against my Leica geovids, the ZRs had better edge to edge clarity and better overall resolution.
I've had 'em all. Right now I own the swarovisions, 8x32 EL and the 15x SLC. I've had Leica, Zeiss, Minox, and quite a few others.
I've used those ZRs for a while, and owned a pair. They are flat out fantastic, especially for the price. The difference between the alphas and the knock offs is getting smaller every year.
I would not hesitate to get the ZRs. You'll love them, and I can guarantee you'll never feel handicapped because of your glass. Matter of fact, stacked against my Leica geovids, the ZRs had better edge to edge clarity and better overall resolution.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
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- 2,133
>Go with the Zens - get
>those demo ones from that
>link. That's a hella
>deal.
>
>I've had 'em all. Right
>now I own the swarovisions,
>8x32 EL and the 15x
>SLC. I've had Leica,
>Zeiss, Minox, and quite a
>few others.
>
>I've used those ZRs for a
>while, and owned a pair.
> They are flat out
>fantastic, especially for the price.
> The difference between the
>alphas and the knock offs
>is getting smaller every year.
>
>
>I would not hesitate to get
>the ZRs. You'll love
>them, and I can guarantee
>you'll never feel handicapped because
>of your glass. Matter
>of fact, stacked against my
>Leica geovids, the ZRs had
>better edge to edge clarity
>and better overall resolution.
As I asked before, when will we see your Leica and Swarovski's in the classifieds and being repalced by ZR's?...
>those demo ones from that
>link. That's a hella
>deal.
>
>I've had 'em all. Right
>now I own the swarovisions,
>8x32 EL and the 15x
>SLC. I've had Leica,
>Zeiss, Minox, and quite a
>few others.
>
>I've used those ZRs for a
>while, and owned a pair.
> They are flat out
>fantastic, especially for the price.
> The difference between the
>alphas and the knock offs
>is getting smaller every year.
>
>
>I would not hesitate to get
>the ZRs. You'll love
>them, and I can guarantee
>you'll never feel handicapped because
>of your glass. Matter
>of fact, stacked against my
>Leica geovids, the ZRs had
>better edge to edge clarity
>and better overall resolution.
As I asked before, when will we see your Leica and Swarovski's in the classifieds and being repalced by ZR's?...
never_catch
Long Time Member
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- 4,683
LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-11 AT 02:09PM (MST)[p]Foreman4x4, we understand you're in love with Leica, Ziess, and Swarovski EQUALLY!! When someone asks about binos in the $500 range because that is what their budget calls for, why is it so difficult for you to leave those 3 out of the conversation?? Obviously they are not in their budget right??
When I care to spend a thousand more dollars for a fraction of optical quality I'll be sure to look you up
I just knew it was a matter of time before I could piss someone off today lol...
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
When I care to spend a thousand more dollars for a fraction of optical quality I'll be sure to look you up
I just knew it was a matter of time before I could piss someone off today lol...
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
dryflyelk
Active Member
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- 842
Foreman, you won't see me selling my binos anytime soon, because I believe they are the best on the planet and there are no compromises. I paid hundreds and thousands of dollars for those last few percentage points of increase. To some, that's just not money worth spending.
The OPs original question was what binos should he buy with a $500 budget. The ZRs can be had for $250 now. That is the most glass for you money that we've EVER seen, IMO. You won't find a better value.
$50 or $100 is a whole lot of money for some guys, and it has been for me at times as well. A $250 set of binos that will do 95% of what the big three can do is a great deal any day of the week, even if you can find a deal on the swaros or leicas for $700.
Now, if he had asked what are the best binos money can buy, my response would have been much different.
The OPs original question was what binos should he buy with a $500 budget. The ZRs can be had for $250 now. That is the most glass for you money that we've EVER seen, IMO. You won't find a better value.
$50 or $100 is a whole lot of money for some guys, and it has been for me at times as well. A $250 set of binos that will do 95% of what the big three can do is a great deal any day of the week, even if you can find a deal on the swaros or leicas for $700.
Now, if he had asked what are the best binos money can buy, my response would have been much different.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
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>LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-11
>AT 02:09?PM (MST)
>
>Foreman4x4, we understand you're in love
>with Leica, Ziess, and Swarovski
>EQUALLY!! When someone asks about
>binos in the $500 range
>because that is what their
>budget calls for, why is
>it so difficult for you
>to leave those 3 out
>of the conversation?? Obviously they
>are not in their budget
>right??
>
>When I care to spend a
>thousand more dollars for a
>fraction of optical quality I'll
>be sure to look you
>up
>
>I just knew it was a
>matter of time before I
>could piss someone off today
>lol...
>
>http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
Why would I leave Swarovski, Leica, and Zeiss out when they can be had for not much more (or even less than) $500.00?
Simple question, if you had $500.00 burning a hole in your pocket and you had a choice between brand spanking new Zen-Ray's or a gently used Swarovski, Leica, or Zeiss, which would you choose?
>AT 02:09?PM (MST)
>
>Foreman4x4, we understand you're in love
>with Leica, Ziess, and Swarovski
>EQUALLY!! When someone asks about
>binos in the $500 range
>because that is what their
>budget calls for, why is
>it so difficult for you
>to leave those 3 out
>of the conversation?? Obviously they
>are not in their budget
>right??
>
>When I care to spend a
>thousand more dollars for a
>fraction of optical quality I'll
>be sure to look you
>up
>
>I just knew it was a
>matter of time before I
>could piss someone off today
>lol...
>
>http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
Why would I leave Swarovski, Leica, and Zeiss out when they can be had for not much more (or even less than) $500.00?
Simple question, if you had $500.00 burning a hole in your pocket and you had a choice between brand spanking new Zen-Ray's or a gently used Swarovski, Leica, or Zeiss, which would you choose?
opbuckslayer
Active Member
- Messages
- 892
Not to be a smartace or get in the middle of a pissing match but if you find these gently used swarovski or leicas for 500 or less will you pm me because I would love to buy them for my son. I personally have not seen any close to that price.
To the OP, don't forget about the Leupold Gold Ring HD binos. Even though they are discontinued, they can be found sometimes and are always in your budget. They are super good and tough. I own a Swaro SLC HD, Zen ED2, and a GR HD all in 10x42. The SLC HD is my favorite, but the other two aren't far off. If you can't see it through the Zen ED2 or GR HD it's the glasser's fault, not the glass.
huntindad4
Very Active Member
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- 2,791
I have a Swaro SLC and a ZR ED2 and I am happy with both. And would agree the difference optically between the two is minimal. That being said there is more to consider than optical clarity such as comfort in the hands and during use and durability and warranty and to some although for the life of me I cannot figure out why, resale price (I will never sell mine). And MOST important to some (which is why they would come on a site and ask) is PRICE.
It always amazes me how some people can't accept the FACT that the cheap competition is closing ground in optics. Sometimes I wonder whether they feel insecure about spending that much money and worrying if they got screwed and just want EVERYONE else to join them.
RELAX you didn't get screwed the Alphas are worth EVERY penny but so are the Zens IMO and the OP will be ecstatic with either.IMHO
I would like to be placed on the $500 or less Alpha PM list also! Although I don't expect a PM any more than I expect to see Bigfoot as I feel they are equally common.
Bill
Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
It always amazes me how some people can't accept the FACT that the cheap competition is closing ground in optics. Sometimes I wonder whether they feel insecure about spending that much money and worrying if they got screwed and just want EVERYONE else to join them.
RELAX you didn't get screwed the Alphas are worth EVERY penny but so are the Zens IMO and the OP will be ecstatic with either.IMHO
I would like to be placed on the $500 or less Alpha PM list also! Although I don't expect a PM any more than I expect to see Bigfoot as I feel they are equally common.
Bill
Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
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- 2,133
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-11 AT 08:54AM (MST)[p]I know $500.00 "Alpha's" don't grow on trees, but there's plenty of deals out there if a person is patient and can jump when they come up. A perfect example is those Zeiss 10x40 ClassiC's that were here in the classifieds a couple days ago for $550.00 and lasted all of about 30 minutes (if that).
I'll also tell my daughter to keep her eyes open for Sasquatch when looking through her $500.00 10x42 SLC's. $650.00 Geovids ain't bad either..
I'll also tell my daughter to keep her eyes open for Sasquatch when looking through her $500.00 10x42 SLC's. $650.00 Geovids ain't bad either..
S
SteveC
Guest
I happen to agree with every word of dryflyelk's above post. Foreman, on one hand you are a major promoter of alpha glass because of how well it holds its value. Your tired refrain of "buy once cry once", ...but not to worry because they hold resale value. Here a good used alpha is worth not much more than $500 according to your gospel. I don't see how you can have both. Which is it? Are they investments that hold their value or are they not worth but precious little more than a good mid price binocular? If that's all they are worth why would anybody sell them anyway? If that's all they are worth on the resale market, why would anybody want to spend all the money for a new one to begin with? Used alpha deals that say "this is a good deal on this thing" are a lot more money than your promotion here says they are worth.
I have used Zeiss FL's and Swarovski EL's as my main glass. I have used pretty much all of the better end of the mid price glass too. While my experience may be less than some, it is more than others and I probably have as much time behind both as almost anybody. I can not see enough difference to cause me to cough up alpha price, not that there is not a difference, it is simply not what it is promoted to be. If the difference was there, I'd have an alpha, that simple.
As it stands, I just bought a new Vortex Razor HD. That is as much as this cat is spending on what is a damn good binocular. That is more than I needed to spend for damn good glass too.
I have used Zeiss FL's and Swarovski EL's as my main glass. I have used pretty much all of the better end of the mid price glass too. While my experience may be less than some, it is more than others and I probably have as much time behind both as almost anybody. I can not see enough difference to cause me to cough up alpha price, not that there is not a difference, it is simply not what it is promoted to be. If the difference was there, I'd have an alpha, that simple.
As it stands, I just bought a new Vortex Razor HD. That is as much as this cat is spending on what is a damn good binocular. That is more than I needed to spend for damn good glass too.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,133
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-11 AT 10:30AM (MST)[p]Your reading and comprehension skills are sorely lacking. Just because someone sells "Alpha" glass for a discount has nothing to do with the actual value, just like anything else. Have you never seen a good deal on a rifle or scope? How about a vehicle? Does that mean they're a POS? You know we're in a slow economy and it's tax season right? Might could be the seller needs quick cash to pay taxes, their mortgage, or a million other things, who knows.
And the other thing you can't seem to get through your thick head is that I've never once said everyone needs to spend big money on top of the line glass, but I'll preach to the end that if someone is looking to spend right around the $500.00 mark (LIKE THE ORIGINAL POSTER WHO ASKED FOR OPINIONS), used "Alpha" glass is obtainable. Sure it might take some time to find a deal, but it can be done.
You know it as well as I do that lots of guys have wasted a lot of money trying to save a buck or two on binos and will go through several pair in the process, when they would've been money ahead to buy what they really wanted in the first place. And that's my point.
And the other thing you can't seem to get through your thick head is that I've never once said everyone needs to spend big money on top of the line glass, but I'll preach to the end that if someone is looking to spend right around the $500.00 mark (LIKE THE ORIGINAL POSTER WHO ASKED FOR OPINIONS), used "Alpha" glass is obtainable. Sure it might take some time to find a deal, but it can be done.
You know it as well as I do that lots of guys have wasted a lot of money trying to save a buck or two on binos and will go through several pair in the process, when they would've been money ahead to buy what they really wanted in the first place. And that's my point.
S
SteveC
Guest
Dude, look to your own comprehension before you gripe about mine. You have gone from drinking alpha cool aid, through taking a bath in it, to taking it intravenously. You preach alpha at every opportunity and you're going to call somebody else thick headed? What a laugh.
You do make a valid point about needing money. Yeah we've all BTDT, but if the value is there, the sale price should be there too. There are far too many deals out there at what would be "market value for product quality" and still be considered good deals, than there are alphas for $500. Do you suppose some of those deals might be needed to pay taxes or a million other things too?
As far as wasting money, that depends on how you define it. There is a certain educational process we all go through to wind up with gear we like. Since everybody is different, so is every body's process. Too many people probably do spend more than they need to. On the other hand some pay more than what they need to. If you spend some money on the way to knowing that what you have is what you need, that might be hard to consider wasted.
You do make a valid point about needing money. Yeah we've all BTDT, but if the value is there, the sale price should be there too. There are far too many deals out there at what would be "market value for product quality" and still be considered good deals, than there are alphas for $500. Do you suppose some of those deals might be needed to pay taxes or a million other things too?
As far as wasting money, that depends on how you define it. There is a certain educational process we all go through to wind up with gear we like. Since everybody is different, so is every body's process. Too many people probably do spend more than they need to. On the other hand some pay more than what they need to. If you spend some money on the way to knowing that what you have is what you need, that might be hard to consider wasted.
never_catch
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,683
4x4, you keep coming on here claiming there are $500 deals on alpha glass...can you please post up a few links to current deals one might be able to snag?? I'm not calling BS...yet...but I will if you're unable to prove it. I've never in my life seen alpha binos as low as $500 so I'm curious to see where these deals are.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,133
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-11 AT 05:56PM (MST)[p]>4x4, you keep coming on here
>claiming there are $500 deals
>on alpha glass...can you please
>post up a few links
>to current deals one might
>be able to snag?? I'm
>not calling BS...yet...but I will
>if you're unable to prove
>it. I've never in my
>life seen alpha binos as
>low as $500 so I'm
>curious to see where these
>deals are.
>
>http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
Check a little further up in the thread where I posted links to the 10x42 Swarovski SLC's and a 2x doubler I bought right here off MM last month for $700.00 shipped. Tripped the doubler on Ebay for $225.00 and by the time I paid their fees and shipping I'm into the SLC's almost exactly $500.00.
Did you see those Zeiss 10x40 ClassiC's a couple days ago for $550.00? And those deals were all right here.
>claiming there are $500 deals
>on alpha glass...can you please
>post up a few links
>to current deals one might
>be able to snag?? I'm
>not calling BS...yet...but I will
>if you're unable to prove
>it. I've never in my
>life seen alpha binos as
>low as $500 so I'm
>curious to see where these
>deals are.
>
>http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
Check a little further up in the thread where I posted links to the 10x42 Swarovski SLC's and a 2x doubler I bought right here off MM last month for $700.00 shipped. Tripped the doubler on Ebay for $225.00 and by the time I paid their fees and shipping I'm into the SLC's almost exactly $500.00.
Did you see those Zeiss 10x40 ClassiC's a couple days ago for $550.00? And those deals were all right here.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,133
And like I said before, I know those kind of deals are not everywhere, but they're out there if a person is patient and has the money to jump when they come along.
woodruffhunter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,761
Foreman:
You have given some good advice. I saw the Zeiss as well for $550. I also saw the swaros on here that you picked up. I'm not sure why people don't believe you, it was on MM.
Glass is one thing, warranty and durability are a big factor as well. To each there own, it's good to look at all angles....
There are some great deals out there...
You have given some good advice. I saw the Zeiss as well for $550. I also saw the swaros on here that you picked up. I'm not sure why people don't believe you, it was on MM.
Glass is one thing, warranty and durability are a big factor as well. To each there own, it's good to look at all angles....
There are some great deals out there...
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,133
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, which is exactly what the orignal poster asked for.
>The link below has the two
>greatest deals on BRAND NEW
>bino's right now (IMO)...my bro
>in law just bought the
>original ED's and received them
>in 2 business days. 8
>other family members of mine
>now have Zen Ray ED
>and ED2 binos. I honest
>to God can't tell a
>difference between the two and
>I've had both 8x43's. Same
>glass different coatings...I can see
>thru both lol!!
>
>I STILL DO NOT WORK FOR
>ZEN RAY OR ANY DEALER
>BUT THESE ARE BADASS DEALS...just
>sayin!!
>http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/demo.html
>
>http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
holy cow! $250 for ZEN ED 8x43. Nice find!
>greatest deals on BRAND NEW
>bino's right now (IMO)...my bro
>in law just bought the
>original ED's and received them
>in 2 business days. 8
>other family members of mine
>now have Zen Ray ED
>and ED2 binos. I honest
>to God can't tell a
>difference between the two and
>I've had both 8x43's. Same
>glass different coatings...I can see
>thru both lol!!
>
>I STILL DO NOT WORK FOR
>ZEN RAY OR ANY DEALER
>BUT THESE ARE BADASS DEALS...just
>sayin!!
>http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/demo.html
>
>http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb37/Feleno/zFix.jpg[/IMG] ~Z~
holy cow! $250 for ZEN ED 8x43. Nice find!
S
SteveC
Guest
>Everyone's entitled to their opinion, which
>is exactly what the orignal
>poster asked for.
Fortis is right. A Zeiss Classic was born in 1988. So was the Leica Trinovid. I'd about bet that the SLC you bought is a pre 2000 model with the yellow color bias (or maybe you did get a deal, there are winning lottery tickets every so often). In all three cases that is three to four generations of either Zeiss, Leica, or Swarovski technology old and equally outdated. In those cases $550-700 is about what they are worth and no particular deal.
That is really not opinion either. Any optical technician could generate resolution, and light transmission numbers in objective black and white data to back that up. I bet more would be willing to go into the $1,000-1,200 range for real alpha glass. That is still a deal.
>is exactly what the orignal
>poster asked for.
Fortis is right. A Zeiss Classic was born in 1988. So was the Leica Trinovid. I'd about bet that the SLC you bought is a pre 2000 model with the yellow color bias (or maybe you did get a deal, there are winning lottery tickets every so often). In all three cases that is three to four generations of either Zeiss, Leica, or Swarovski technology old and equally outdated. In those cases $550-700 is about what they are worth and no particular deal.
That is really not opinion either. Any optical technician could generate resolution, and light transmission numbers in objective black and white data to back that up. I bet more would be willing to go into the $1,000-1,200 range for real alpha glass. That is still a deal.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,133
>>Everyone's entitled to their opinion, which
>>is exactly what the orignal
>>poster asked for.
>
>
>Fortis is right. A Zeiss
>Classic was born in 1988.
> So was the Leica
>Trinovid. I'd about bet
>that the SLC you bought
>is a pre 2000 model
>with the yellow color bias
>(or maybe you did get
>a deal, there are winning
>lottery tickets every so often).
> In all three cases
>that is three to four
>generations of either Zeiss, Leica,
>or Swarovski technology old and
>equally outdated. In those
>cases $550-700 is about what
>they are worth and no
>particular deal.
>
>That is really not opinion either.
> Any optical technician could
>generate resolution, and light transmission
>numbers in objective black and
>white data to back that
>up. I bet more
>would be willing to go
>into the $1,000-1,200 range for
>real alpha glass. That
>is still a deal.
And you'd be wrong again; those SLC's were 2007 production. What's your guess on the vintage of my $650.00 Geovids?
>>is exactly what the orignal
>>poster asked for.
>
>
>Fortis is right. A Zeiss
>Classic was born in 1988.
> So was the Leica
>Trinovid. I'd about bet
>that the SLC you bought
>is a pre 2000 model
>with the yellow color bias
>(or maybe you did get
>a deal, there are winning
>lottery tickets every so often).
> In all three cases
>that is three to four
>generations of either Zeiss, Leica,
>or Swarovski technology old and
>equally outdated. In those
>cases $550-700 is about what
>they are worth and no
>particular deal.
>
>That is really not opinion either.
> Any optical technician could
>generate resolution, and light transmission
>numbers in objective black and
>white data to back that
>up. I bet more
>would be willing to go
>into the $1,000-1,200 range for
>real alpha glass. That
>is still a deal.
And you'd be wrong again; those SLC's were 2007 production. What's your guess on the vintage of my $650.00 Geovids?
huntindad4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,791
"This is sure to cause a schittstorm, but I don't consider 30 year old technology, i.e. Zeiss Classic, as an alpha binocular anymmore. Just because it has Zeiss on it doesn't make it so. I don't consider the Zeiss Conquest an alpha binocular either."
+1
Also would add that a friend had the classics back in the day and I was hugely impressed at the time (1989 or so) but would put my paycheck on the FACT the Zens I have would kick their azz all over the hills in ANY head to head you wanna create.
Good job on the 2007 SLC foreman, you obviously scored a homerun on that one.
Bill
Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
+1
Also would add that a friend had the classics back in the day and I was hugely impressed at the time (1989 or so) but would put my paycheck on the FACT the Zens I have would kick their azz all over the hills in ANY head to head you wanna create.
Good job on the 2007 SLC foreman, you obviously scored a homerun on that one.
Bill
Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
I have owned my Swaro 10x42's since '96, and spend a lot of time behind them spotting mule deer at long distances. I have also looked through Buris Signature Series 10x50's (NOT THE NEW SIGNATURE SELECT) most every year, in comparing them to Swaro. The 15 yr old Buris glass is so close to the Swaro, that I would buy them and save the cash. Back then they sold for $549 I believe, but the glass is excellent. I love my SLC's but that old Buris glass is top quality. Bet you could pick some up for under $250. Just a thought...
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