6x fixed rifle scopes, no laser rangefinders, no scoped muzzys

[Bigwiffy]

If you don't support explain why.

 

[MountainSqwabler]

I am all for this other than range finders. Though they do aid in making further shots, for those that don't take far shots or archery hunt it helps the hunter knowing if it's too far or not.

 

[elkassassin]

Do I Need To Re-Post HELL-RIGHT?

 

[elkassassin]

Remember Wiffy!

ALL Are Gonna Give Some!

Some Are Not Gonna GIVE ALL!

AKA: Every Weapon Type are gonna Down-Grade on the Technology!

 

[Bigwiffy]

Remember Wiffy!

ALL Are Gonna Give Some!

Some Are Not Gonna GIVE ALL!

You're wrong Bess. Some won't give any.

 

[elkassassin]

Oh I Know!

But If one Type Of Weapon gets Handed Downgrading so does the Rest of Them!

I Won't Back Down!

You're wrong Bess. Some won't give any.

 

[30Hart]

What elkass said.

 

[Dangbig]

These won’t help Elk is right 50+ other things also

 

[twopointdn]

I put yes but really it would be mostly. The only change I would make to your list would be going back to the 1x scopes on muzzleloader like it was before the change to allow magnified scopes. 1x scopes allows the older eyes to still function better than they do with open sights but they do not add any advantage. I some casing a 1x scope is more of a disadvantage because the image gets smaller through the scope. Peep sight would be the advantage for longer shots. With this small amendment to your list it would have my vote and I believe it would preserve opportunity and quality which is a win in my book.

 

[Bigwiffy]

These won’t help Elk is right 50+ other things also

These changes won't help? Interesting. Care to expound?

 

[BigBuckz]

I think if you got rid of the rangefinder it wouldn't matter what scope you had on your gun most guys would be lost without there range. I would also like to see shorter seasons 14 day archery, 7 day muzzleloader, 5 day rifle. Give the animals a little bit of a break between hunts.

 

[elkhuntn247]

I’d support rolling back to 1x/open sight rules on muzzleloaders.

Range finder ban would do more harm than good in my book, especially for archers. People are still gonna take the shot.

I don’t really rifle hunt Utah. So I don’t have an opinion on the 6x thing.

 

[Bux n Dux]

So when all this chit doesn’t work and numbers are in the hole still, then what? Option 2 was going to be our saving grace. We were promised by $FW and the powers that be, our herds would rebound with that management plan if we all were willing to sacrifice a little, and we did. We gave up a lot actually. And we are sitting with less tags now than we did when we started that practice. Cut us back to rocks and spears as far as technology goes, and when that doesn’t help, what’s the plan then? Stop hunting all together? Sounds like that’s the end goal for some of you. I really want to hear what’s next on your list of ‘fixes’ when all this crying doesn’t fix the issues we have at all. A LOT of Habitat projects have been completed and hasn’t fixed the problem. Carefully selected guzzler build locations Now have water and hasnt fixed the problem. Highway fencing hasn’t fixed the problem. Collaring and studies hasnt fixed the problem. Predator management hasn’t fixed the problem. Tag cuts hasnt fixed the problem. New management models hasnt fixed the problem. Deer relocation/transplants hasnt fixed the problem. The list goes on forever. Nothing has worked. But banning scopes, bait, trail cams and range finders are going to be what starts trending populations upwards? Yeah right. The end game with recent suggestions and bans is selfishly attempting to put bigger deer on the mountain for you to kill. That’s it. It doesn’t create more deer. It’s an attempt to create bigger deer. Which is a bandaid on an axe wound. It does nothing. Limiting opportunity isn’t creating any more opportunity.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So when all this chit doesn’t work and numbers are in the hole still, then what? Option 2 was going to be our saving grace. We were promised by $FW and the powers that be, our herds would rebound with that management plan if we all were willing to sacrifice a little, and we did. We gave up a lot actually. And we are sitting with less tags now than we did when we started that practice. Cut us back to rocks and spears as far as technology goes, and when that doesn’t help, what’s the plan then? Stop hunting all together? Sounds like that’s the end goal for some of you. I really want to hear what’s next on your list of ‘fixes’ when all this crying doesn’t fix the issues we have at all. A LOT of Habitat projects have been completed and hasn’t fixed the problem. Carefully selected guzzler build locations Now have water and hasnt fixed the problem. Highway fencing hasn’t fixed the problem. Collaring and studies hasnt fixed the problem. Predator management hasn’t fixed the problem. Tag cuts hasnt fixed the problem. New management models hasnt fixed the problem. Deer relocation/transplants hasnt fixed the problem. The list goes on forever. Nothing has worked. But banning scopes, bait, trail cams and range finders are going to be what starts trending populations upwards? Yeah right. The end game with recent suggestions and bans is selfishly attempting to put bigger deer on the mountain for you to kill. That’s it. It doesn’t create more deer. It’s an attempt to create bigger deer. Which is a bandaid on an axe wound. It does nothing. Limiting opportunity isn’t creating any more opportunity.

Drought I have been saying that for years.
Big big factor in this. The whole western states are dealing with this.

 

[Dangbig]

These changes won't help? Interesting. Care to expound?

There are 50 other things winter range, highway mortality, climate or drought just to pick on 1 or 2 things doesn’t make sense. I just bought a rangefinder last year and I used it and killed an elk where I have killed my last 25 or so this time I just knew exactly how far it was. Most knuckleheads couldn’t kill with a muzzle regardless of sight and if we hit muzzle we better cut up bow tech as well. Same guys will kill regardless of the rules. I just think if we narrowed the scope these are not the top 3 in the Pareto

 

[ELKOHOLIC]

Why stop there. go back to flintlocks, recurves, and 30-30's. That's where a few buck might survive another year. Can you let me know what were changing to every year so I can be ahead of the curve and sale all my useless equipment though? Or maybe you could just hunt harder?

 

[Bigwiffy]

Why stop there. go back to flintlocks, recurves, and 30-30's. That's where a few buck might survive another year. Can you let me know what were changing to every year so I can be ahead of the curve and sale all my useless equipment though? Or maybe you could just hunt harder?

But you were in favor of the other tech ban and bait ban. Why are you singing a different tune now?

 

[Bigwiffy]

I'm surprised a lot of you guys that were in favor of the previous bans aren't in favor of this ban? You say this ban won't help?

 

[OpeningDay]

My personal opinion is this restriction only effects a small percentage of the actual hunting community. Not everyone is out there with their new Paramount PRO shooting 700 yards. Not everyone has a $2K rifle set up. Not everyone has a $1K archery set up. Yes. I do believe these restrictions do help in limiting the success on those top end bucks on LE units. The same guys finding and hunting the trophy bucks on General units are going to be the same guys no matter the restriction. The weapons are going to have the same capabilities and people are still going to shoot. Just going to be a lot more Kentucky Windage and hold over Hail Mary's. People will do the math and know that their rifle drops 58" at 700 yards and guess a 58" holdover. Boom. lead in the air. There are so many other more important strategies to help the deer herds than limiting a resource that not everyone even uses. Remember, 700 yard shots are not killing all the does we are losing. Again. just my .02 cents.

 

[SanPitch]

I support no scopes on muzzys because they are supposed to be a primitive weapon, I do not support banning rangefinders because the only thing that would do is increase wounded animals.

 

[257Tony]

Some would say your proposal goes too far! I say, your proposal doesn't go too far enough! Rifled barrels need to be outlawed, and no rifled slugs either. Smooth bore muskets, with real black powder only! This will bring back the glory days of hunting before you know it!!!

 

[middlefork]

HAMS hunts already exist. Make all units HAMS only with current general season dates.

 

[shootem]

So when all this chit doesn’t work and numbers are in the hole still, then what? Option 2 was going to be our saving grace. We were promised by $FW and the powers that be, our herds would rebound with that management plan if we all were willing to sacrifice a little, and we did. We gave up a lot actually. And we are sitting with less tags now than we did when we started that practice. Cut us back to rocks and spears as far as technology goes, and when that doesn’t help, what’s the plan then? Stop hunting all together? Sounds like that’s the end goal for some of you. I really want to hear what’s next on your list of ‘fixes’ when all this crying doesn’t fix the issues we have at all. A LOT of Habitat projects have been completed and hasn’t fixed the problem. Carefully selected guzzler build locations Now have water and hasnt fixed the problem. Highway fencing hasn’t fixed the problem. Collaring and studies hasnt fixed the problem. Predator management hasn’t fixed the problem. Tag cuts hasnt fixed the problem. New management models hasnt fixed the problem. Deer relocation/transplants hasnt fixed the problem. The list goes on forever. Nothing has worked. But banning scopes, bait, trail cams and range finders are going to be what starts trending populations upwards? Yeah right. The end game with recent suggestions and bans is selfishly attempting to put bigger deer on the mountain for you to kill. That’s it. It doesn’t create more deer. It’s an attempt to create bigger deer. Which is a bandaid on an axe wound. It does nothing. Limiting opportunity isn’t creating any more opportunity.

My thoughts exactly!!!

 

[shootem]

I'm surprised a lot of you guys that were in favor of the previous bans aren't in favor of this ban? You say this ban won't help?

I for one was not in favor of the previous bans and understand it will not help. There were several on here preaching that the restrictions are not meant to help herds. My question to them is, what the hell is the point of making changes and adding more restrictions if not for the sake of the herds?

 

[shootem]

I support no scopes on muzzys because they are supposed to be a primitive weapon, I do not support banning rangefinders because the only thing that would do is increase wounded animals.

Let me guess, you’re probably not a muzzleloader hunter so you could care less?

 

[shootem]

Some would say your proposal goes too far! I say, your proposal doesn't go too far enough! Rifled barrels need to be outlawed, and no rifled slugs either. Smooth bore muskets, with real black powder only! This will bring back the glory days of hunting before you know it!!!

Yeah right! I’m calling BS on that one.

 

[shootem]

HAMS hunts already exist. Make all units HAMS only with current general season dates.

Geez it seems like the majority of you so called hunters are members of PETA. Wake up, these changes will have 0 effect on herd numbers. Fix the drought and range on the landscape and then we’ll talk.

 

[elkhunter81]

I for one was not in favor of the previous bans and understand it will not help. There were several on here preaching that the restrictions are not meant to help herds. My question to them is, what the hell is the point of making changes and adding more restrictions if not for the sake of the herds?

Because as humans we are typically idiots, some take it further than others. We have to keep ourselves in check every now and then

 

[Shadow]

I support no scopes on muzzys because they are supposed to be a primitive weapon, I do not support banning rangefinders because the only thing that would do is increase wounded animals.

Isn’t a bow supposed to be a primitive weapon too?

 

[Bux n Dux]

I support no scopes on muzzys because they are supposed to be a primitive weapon, I do not support banning rangefinders because the only thing that would do is increase wounded animals.

Show me one place where the state of utah has defined a muzzleloader as a ‘primitive weapon’.

You’ll search for days because they never have. A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader in utah. That’s the seasonal weapon, a muzzleloader and that has been defined by the state of utah. Want a primitive weapon hunt? Then push for one or go
Hunt Idaho. But here, we do not have a defined primitive weapon hunt

 

[Bux n Dux]

Some would say your proposal goes too far! I say, your proposal doesn't go too far enough! Rifled barrels need to be outlawed, and no rifled slugs either. Smooth bore muskets, with real black powder only! This will bring back the glory days of hunting before you know it!!!

How will that bring back DEER numbers? Does make bucks. Bucks don’t make bucks. Saving bucks doesn’t increase deer numbers! Why do people struggle with that concept

 

[travishunter3006]

Again... instead of stomping on how others hunt in favor of our own selfish desires.... Why don't we put the focus on the government agency who steals tags for auction every year, forgoes the advice of biologists in favor of big hunting $$$ groups? Why don't be scrutinize where the tax/fee dollars are going? We don't do any of those things?? Because arguing with people on the internet is apparently more fun and hunters aren't really after problem solving conversations. Instead they want to ask how we can stomp out ways of hunting we don't like.

 

[Zeke]

Oh, you're a clever one BigWiffy.

It's get-even time for you now since you lost your cams and bait during hunting season.

Remember this, some of us didn't support the earlier bans at all because we knew better than to think it's a cure-all for the struggling deer herds but yet there are those who now want to scorch the earth to make everyone pay.

There's always a way to make hunting work for me and you so whatever it looks like after the unprovoked invasion by the ban-crowd, it'll be just fine.

We're headed down a slippery slope when we blame only technology and fail to look at the real issues that are causing the decline.

Bless your heart,
Zeke

 

[Muleman1]

These won’t help Elk is right 50+ other things also

Better 50 than 53

 

[Bigwiffy]

Oh, you're a clever one BigWiffy.

It's get-even time for you now since you lost your cams and bait during hunting season.

Remember this, some of us didn't support the earlier bans at all because we knew better than to think it's a cure-all for the struggling deer herds but yet there are those who now want to scorch the earth to make everyone pay.

There's always a way to make hunting work for me and you so whatever it looks like after the unprovoked invasion by the ban-crowd, it'll be just fine.

We're headed down a slippery slope when we blame only technology and fail to look at the real issues that are causing the decline.

Bless your heart,
Zeke

100% agree with you Zeke. I don't want anymore restrictions or BS bans, but I will say we started on the wrong end of this ban beast. You are an excellent example of someone who can confidently and regularly put a bullet through an animal at 700+ yards. You and many like you are lethal with your custom built rifles and muzzys. Is that hunting or marksmanship? I say it's both, but probably more keen on the marksmanship side. A fat guy in a wheelchair can get 700 yards from any animal. The hypocrisy comes from guys whining about trail cams and baiting and how it isn't hunting, but are happy to snipe an animal from another zip code and call it "fair" chase. It is a slippery slope, but we've all been put on it if we like it or not.

 

[hogg_65]

Utah doesn't have the numbers of deer for us to continue hunting the way we do now. Cutting tags, only limits hunters opportunity to hunt. The waiting we are seeing and will continue to see, will continue to get worse. We need to step back and realize we all can't get a tag and hunt every year. We need a system that will allow all of us to hunt at least every other year. I mentioned an idea here a few years back, that most didn't like. Those that didn't like it, expressed they would rather hunt every year. Say Utah has 110,000 hunters put in for general deer tags. Each hunter draws a number, even or odd. If it's 2022 the even number guys hunt, the odd guys hunt in 2023. Then in 2024 we all put in the draws again and so forth. We could hunt every other year, with less hunting pressure. We need to change something on our part, the drought conditions may never go away

 

[BrowningRage]

I agree with some bans on things in order to try and preserve "fair chase"... The muzzleloader issue is one of those things.

I'd also like a lot more ideas on how to get more fawns to survive their first year of life. I'm starting to believe that drought is effecting our deer herds more than we have suspected.

Unfortunately, as many of you have said, it seems a perfect storm for the destruction of our big game herds is coming to a head. I hope I can give my children some semblance of what hunting is, before it is gone as we have known it.

 

[El Gringo]

I say let’s get all the Tards in a big wrestling ring, enclosed in a chain link cage, and let’s have a Royal Rumble!!!!

 

[El Gringo]

These changes won't help? Interesting. Care to expound?

What are we debating?

Herd Numbers? Fawn recruitment, predation, highway mortality, disease, etc. etc.

Lack of Mature bucks? Technology, tag numbers, management

Lack of any bucks? Management

Not enough opportunity? Supply and demand… too many hunters for the resource to sustain. This can be eased by moving more opportunity to primitive weapon season, shorter seasons, manipulating season dates, etc.

If we’re arguing about herd numbers, and the thought is to restrict scopes on muzzleloaders (which I’m perfectly OK with), then we’re really just pissing in the wind, and not thinking this whole thing through, IMO

 

[257Tony]

Yeah right! I’m calling BS on that one.

Woooosh!

 

[257Tony]

How will that bring back DEER numbers? Does make bucks. Bucks don’t make bucks. Saving bucks doesn’t increase deer numbers! Why do people struggle with that concept

Wooooooosh!

 

[JakeH]

Show me one place where the state of utah has defined a muzzleloader as a ‘primitive weapon’.

You’ll search for days because they never have. A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader in utah. That’s the seasonal weapon, a muzzleloader and that has been defined by the state of utah. Want a primitive weapon hunt? Then push for one or go
Hunt Idaho. But here, we do not have a defined primitive weapon hunt

Wrong

 

[Silentstalker]

My vote is no.

The trail cam ban will not grow our herds.

Further Scope bans will not grow more bucks. In fact I would argue that more bucks will die without rangefinders and scopes. Instead of an accurately delivered bullet into a buck or bull that drops in its tracks or in sight, rifle and muzzy guys will continue to lob lead at those bucks with their iron sights or 6x scopes as they are accustomed to long range shooting already.

The result = more bucks shot and wounded prior to getting one down and tagged. Heck they already don’t follow up on their shots now. We all know the shooting at distance won’t stop.

Mule deer in particular are in real trouble here in Utah and throughout the west. Shooting bucks isn’t the cause. We have plenty of bucks to breed the does.

Fawns are not making it into their second year. Heck they aren’t making it to 6 months. It’s not predation as the major culprit. They are just dying.

Why on earth would we want to make drastic changes to our passion that could be lasting changes when we have no science based evidence to say it would make one bit of difference?

Maybe for once in this states history we should let the biologists manage the herd and quit pushing for self serving changes.

 

[SanPitch]

Show me one place where the state of utah has defined a muzzleloader as a ‘primitive weapon’.

You’ll search for days because they never have. A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader in utah. That’s the seasonal weapon, a muzzleloader and that has been defined by the state of utah. Want a primitive weapon hunt? Then push for one or go
Hunt Idaho. But here, we do not have a defined primitive weapon hunt

I don’t need to show you, JakeH already did. What’s the point of muzzy and archery hunts if they are not supposed to be more primitive than a rifle?

 

[SanPitch]

Isn’t a bow supposed to be a primitive weapon too?

Yes and it is. I’m not saying it’s as primitive as it could be or as they used to be the but it’s BY FAR more primitive than a rifle and even a muzzy.

 

[smokepolejohnson]

Eliminate
-high power scoped muzz
-Electronic/ Slider sights in arch
-Thermal
-Make it mandatory all hunters must have a range finder and said range finder only goes to 500 yards
-cut hunt dates by 20% across the board
-Eliminate the Dedicated Hunter proscam
I mean program and xeriscape the DNR offices so the DH hero boys aren’t needed to mow lawns and save some water in an arid environment.
-Lastly let’s follow Don Peays example there is absolutely no reason for average public Joe/Jose to be using chute planes/ultra lights or helicopters.

 

[middlefork]

And what most on here don't realize is these are all social issues.

Nothing more than who gets to shoot what by what means. None are helping the deer. Even a little bit. It is all about finding your version of utopia.

Quit killing deer and they will still struggle. Why they struggle needs to be addressed not how you are going to kill the last one.

 

[elkantlers]

3 pin fixed sight on bow's
4x scope on muzzleloaders
No change on rifle but cut tags for this season in half and evenly distribute to other seasons. ( no tag cut )
Keep rangefinders

Change the late season LE elk hunts from any weapon to HAMS. leave the early muzzleloader elk season to 4x scopes.

 

[Bigwiffy]

3 pin fixed sight on bow's
4x scope on muzzleloaders
No change on rifle but cut tags for this season in half and evenly distribute to other seasons. ( no tag cut )
Keep rangefinders

Change the late season LE elk hunts from any weapon to HAMS. leave the early muzzleloader elk season to 4x scopes.

?‍?

 

[shootem]

3 pin fixed sight on bow's
4x scope on muzzleloaders
No change on rifle but cut tags for this season in half and evenly distribute to other seasons. ( no tag cut )
Keep rangefinders

Change the late season LE elk hunts from any weapon to HAMS. leave the early muzzleloader elk season to 4x scopes.

Absolutely change rifles, why is it that you feel there should be changes to archery and muzzleloader but not to rifles? Hypocrisy?

 

[elkantlers]

Absolutely change rifles, why is it that you feel there should be changes to archery and muzzleloader but not to rifles? Hypocrisy?

It's easier to change archery and Muzzy's as people are willing to make some sacrifices there. Rifles are a different animal. They are made to kill things easily. Even limiting them to 6X scopes would not do anything substantial in their killing efficiency.

 

[PleaseDear]

I voted No because why do I want to have to go $pend more wasted $$ on New rules and for those of us that hunt a lot of Non-Ressy tags/states would have to $pend more for those hunts?


Lame Idea for sure



Robb

 

[Sallaberry]

I voted no because we don’t need more laws.

 

[Bigwiffy]

I voted No because why do I want to have to go $pend more wasted $$ on New rules and for those of us that hunt a lot of Non-Ressy tags/states would have to $pend more for those hunts?


Lame Idea for sure



Robb

Spending more money on a 6x scope? Why would it cause you to spend more on a non resident hunt?

 

[30Hart]

Spending more money on a 6x scope? Why would it cause you to spend more on a non resident hunt?

Probably because he'd have to run out buy another scope...you know swap out scopes on his rifle. This is fun to get everybody's opinion on things and stir debate. But nothing is ever going to change on the regular rifle hunts...ever. Muzzle, archery and HAMS hunts sure. Progress moves forward not backwards...less tags maybe but that's already in the cards anyways as population grows. Next you'll have us using clubs, spears and rocks as atlatls are too advanced to be used...lol!!!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

It's easier to change archery and Muzzy's as people are willing to make some sacrifices there. Rifles are a different animal. They are made to kill things easily. Even limiting them to 6X scopes would not do anything substantial in their killing efficiency.

granted this is elk.
I don't think they need to sacrifice anything stats don't lie.

So 2020 annual report shows.
The average days of archers hunted was around 14 days this is all Le units combined
They offer 775 LE archery tags state wide
They harvested 203 bulls
That is 26% success rate
This is actual data

There was one unit that stuck out
The book cliffs archery
for 2020 they issued 32 tags and only 3 harvested


Now the Muzzleloader hunters
They offer 500 LE elk
They harvested 358
That's 71% success
This is actual data

Now the LE rifle Elk this is Early/mid/late combined.
So the average Rifle hunters hunted around 5 days
They offer 1,576 tags for rifle.
They harvested 1,229 bulls
That's 77% success rate
This is actual data


I found this one on Colorado's.
Remember they get to hunt threw the whole month of September with 9 days of Muzzleloader overlapping them.

2020 archery .
Colorado total tags 53,426
total harvest 5,366
That's 10% harvest success.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Probably because he'd have to run out buy another scope...you know swap out scopes on his rifle. This is fun to get everybody's opinion on things and stir debate. But nothing is ever going to change on the regular rifle hunts...ever. Muzzle, archery and HAMS hunts sure. Progress moves forward not backwards...less tags maybe but that's already in the cards anyways as population grows. Next you'll have us using clubs, spears and rocks as atlatls are too advanced to be used...lol!!!

So everything else will be limited, banned, governed, regulated, taxed, but rifle hunters will be able to continue to do as they please? I don't think you are wrong, but is there something wrong with that?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So everything else will be limited, banned, governed, regulated, taxed, but rifle hunters will be able to continue to do as they please? I don't think you are wrong, but is there something wrong with that?

After looking at that as far as elk goes. YES there is something wrong. Elk hunt during the Rut with our most effective weapon.
Mind you I love archery/rifle/muzzle-loader hunting.
But from what i see over the actual data I put out. We could easily double archery tags and still stay below 30% harvest rate.

With the 5 year waiting period. There will hardly be anyone in the archery pool, I will bet you would have Muzzleloader and rifle hunters switch over to archery, not all of them but i bet you would be surprised on how many would.

 

[elkantlers]

granted this is elk.
I don't think they need to sacrifice anything stats don't lie.

So 2020 annual report shows.
The average days of archers hunted was around 14 days this is all Le units combined
They offer 775 LE archery tags state wide
They harvested 203 bulls
That is 26% success rate
This is actual data

There was one unit that stuck out
The book cliffs archery
for 2020 they issued 32 tags and only 3 harvested


Now the Muzzleloader hunters
They offer 500 LE elk
They harvested 358
That's 71% success
This is actual data

Now the LE rifle Elk this is Early/mid/late combined.
So the average Rifle hunters hunted around 5 days
They offer 1,576 tags for rifle.
They harvested 1,229 bulls
That's 77% success rate
This is actual data


I found this one on Colorado's.
Remember they get to hunt threw the whole month of September with 9 days of Muzzleloader overlapping them.

2020 archery .
Colorado total tags 53,426
total harvest 5,366
That's 10% harvest success.

If you give out 53,000 archery elk tags in Utah you would have <10% success.

After looking at that as far as elk goes. YES there is something wrong. Elk hunt during the Rut with our most effective weapon.
Mind you I love archery/rifle/muzzle-loader hunting.
But from what i see over the actual data I put out. We could easily double archery tags and still stay below 30% harvest rate.

With the 5 year waiting period. There will hardly be anyone in the archery pool, I will bet you would have Muzzleloader and rifle hunters switch over to archery, not all of them but i bet you would be surprised on how many would.

When someone draws an early LE elk tag during the rut they can use any weapon they choose. In this instance you are drawing the best possible days to hunt elk, The rut. If you want to hunt bugling bulls on September 20th with a bow or muzzleloader all you need to do is draw an early tag.

 

[30Hart]

So everything else will be limited, banned, governed, regulated, taxed, but rifle hunters will be able to continue to do as they please? I don't think you are wrong, but is there something wrong with that?

We will eventually be limited to less tags and we'll have more pressure for those tags from the long range muzzy guys that don't want to change their setups. You could really get carried away with the HAMS hunts for example or you could have primitive no sights and recurve/longbow seasons along with regular archery seasons but I doubt you'd want extra rifle, muzzle and archery seasons added on. Montana doesn't do anything we do in regards to special muzzy hunts and wyoming only has a few in non-prime areas. Why aren't we hearing about that...gotta have the game...hard to do being the king state of conservation tags handed out on top of the CWMU tags so people don't have to stand in line...oh wait separate subject there that needs fixed too. Lots to fix but no progress ever gets made. I just hunt out of state each year unless I draw one of those wait 20-25 year limited tags.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

If you give out 53,000 archery elk tags in Utah you would have <10% success.



When someone draws an early LE elk tag during the rut they can use any weapon they choose. In this instance you are drawing the best possible days to hunt elk, The rut. If you want to hunt bugling bulls on September 20th with a bow or muzzleloader all you need to do is draw an early tag.

That's not the point here.
I never said add 53,000 elk tags in Utah what did I say? ( We could easily double archery tags and still stay below 30% harvest rate.) So that said they could add easily add 775 more tags to it and it would only be 26 to 30% successful. not 70% like rifle and muzzleloader.

I'm showing success rate only 10% harvested out of 53,000 for archery. in Colorado during the rut.

Archery success is way low why in the heck would they give up any technology.
What weapon's is more effective here.
The proof is there black and white clear as day.

As far as the Early season LE rifle elk hunt. why do we need to hunt bugling bulls during the rut with are most effective weapon's.

We moved the muzzleloader deer hunt out of November for a reason.

 

[smokepolejohnson]

It’s all about opportunity and hunter recruitment so you never now this may be what they throw in front of the board next go -around….
T thermal
A automatic fully or via bumper stock
N Non Res and night hunting only
S Spot lighting and high rack only

But by Gawd no trail cameras.

 

[elkantlers]

That's not the point here.
I never said add 53,000 elk tags in Utah what did I say? ( We could easily double archery tags and still stay below 30% harvest rate.) So that said they could add easily add 775 more tags to it and it would only be 26 to 30% successful. not 70% like rifle and muzzleloader.

I'm showing success rate only 10% harvested out of 53,000 for archery. in Colorado during the rut.

Archery success is way low why in the heck would they give up any technology.
What weapon's is more effective here.
The proof is there black and white clear as day.

As far as the Early season LE rifle elk hunt. why do we need to hunt bugling bulls during the rut with are most effective weapon's.

We moved the muzzleloader deer hunt out of November for a reason.

Because archers are shooting farther than ever. I know of a guy that shot an elk at 115 yards and shot at a deer at 176.
These are the guys that we need to target with archery technology restrictions.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Because archers are shooting farther than ever. I know of a guy that shot an elk at 115 yards and shot at a deer at 176.
These are the guys that we need to target with archery technology restrictions.

176 yards? ??

 

[30Hart]

176 yards? ??

That would be like me trying to hit a deer in the vitals with a M203 grenade launcher back in the day...lol!!!

 

[elkantlers]

176 yards? ??

It may be bull, but that's what he told me.

That would be like me trying to hit a deer in the vitals with a M203 grenade launcher back in the day...lol!!!

That was a long Muzzleloader shot 30 years ago.

I'm certainly not condoning this. I want it stopped. If regulating bow sights will stop this, I'm all for it.

 

[Bigwiffy]

It may be bull, but that's what he told me.

That was a long Muzzleloader shot 30 years ago.

I'm certainly not condoning this. I want it stopped. If regulating bow sights will stop this, I'm all for it.

Haha so he told you he "shot at" a deer at 176 yards and missed it by how far? 100 yards? A guy told me once he killed a caribou in Idaho at 365 yards with his bow he must have been telling the truth. We need to regulate these guys, actually let's ban them! What's his name?

 

[MountainSqwabler]

There are hunting videos that show hunters taking 100yd + shots at animals with bows. He hasn't shot at an animal this far (as far as I'm aware) but Cameron Hanes practices out to like 200yds.

 

[shootem]

And what about the rifle guys taking 1000 plus yard shots? Do you guys wanna restrict these guys too?

 

[MountainSqwabler]

And what about the rifle guys taking 1000 plus yard shots? Do you guys wanna restrict these guys too?

Absolutely.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Ok I'll give you the sliders, take them, ban them, throw them in the trash! In return give up your 32x scopes and go to a fixed 6x. You can even keep your rangefinders that are good out to 400 yards. You willing to give up anything???

 

[MountainSqwabler]

Ok I'll give you the sliders, take them, ban them, throw them in the trash! In return give up your 32x scopes and go to a fixed 6x. You can even keep your rangefinders that are good out to 400 yards. You willing to give up anything???

I'm all about that deal. I'll Even give up my rocket propelled arrows in addition. Patented of course.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Because archers are shooting farther than ever. I know of a guy that shot an elk at 115 yards and shot at a deer at 176.
These are the guys that we need to target with archery technology restrictions.

I'm showing you real data why the Archers wont just hand everything over.

The Actual data that i just showed everyone.
shows exactly who needs an over haul and it's not archers.

 

[elkantlers]

I'm showing you real data why the Archers wont just hand everything over.

The Actual data that i just showed everyone.
shows exactly who needs an over haul and it's not archers.

What has had the biggest technological advances in the last 50 years, bows or rifles?
I can take a 50 year old rifle and a 6x scope and kill an elk at 600 yards all day. I can't take a 50 year old bow and shoot an elk at 115 yards.

 

[elkantlers]

Ok I'll give you the sliders, take them, ban them, throw them in the trash! In return give up your 32x scopes and go to a fixed 6x. You can even keep your rangefinders that are good out to 400 yards. You willing to give up anything???

what's your fixation with 6x scopes? Is it because that's your shirt size?

 

[Bigwiffy]

what's your fixation with 6x scopes? Is it because that's your shirt size?

Actually 8x is my shirt size. 6x for scope because I know anything less you would cry about. You should be banned for being mean.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

What has had the biggest technological advances in the last 50 years, bows or rifles?
I can take a 50 year old rifle and a 6x scope and kill an elk at 600 yards all day. I can't take a 50 year old bow and shoot an elk at 115 yards.

What has?that’s easy optics and Ammo that is the biggest change.
Last time I checked bows don’t have optics

 

[middlefork]

Farthest archery target hit (male)

The Guinness World Records Official site with ultimate record-breaking facts & achievements. Do you want to set a world record? Are you Officially Amazing?

www.guinnessworldrecords.com

 

[middlefork]

In reality if it was about killing too efficiently the simple answer is to eliminate the most effective weapon. By far a rifle (scoped or not) is the most effective weapon.

Good luck with that.

 

[Hunter81]

If we are trying to limit harvest, why don’t we set up a system where hunters have to report a harvest at the end of the season. Similar to the DH program, you take your unused tag in after the season. If you harvest an animal you have a waiting period and are not eligible to apply for a specified amount of time. I think you would see more hunters be willing to pass animals.

I think there are more ways to limit harvest than by restricting weapons. Maybe something like this would be more effective than weapon restrictions? At the rate we are going we’ll all be hunting with a slingshot before too long.

 

[Bluehair]

I found this one on Colorado's.
Remember they get to hunt threw the whole month of September with 9 days of Muzzleloader overlapping them.

2020 archery .
Colorado total tags 53,426
total harvest 5,366
That's 10% harvest success.

Are there any differences in legal archery equipment between UT and CO?

IMO, the poor success rate reflects more on the pathetic populations that result from ridiculous uncontrolled hunting pressure.

Two things kill animals - nature and man. If you are going to increase natures bag limit, it stands to reason that you need to reduce man’s if you want to sustain populations.

Argue all you want about how. I find these threads very entertaining.

#backfillbadgerholes

 

[Elkslayer2015]

If we are trying to limit harvest, why don’t we set up a system where hunters have to report a harvest at the end of the season. Similar to the DH program, you take your unused tag in after the season. If you harvest an animal you have a waiting period and are not eligible to apply for a specified amount of time. I think you would see more hunters be willing to pass animals.

I think there are more ways to limit harvest than by restricting weapons. Maybe something like this would be more effective than weapon restrictions? At the rate we are going we’ll all be hunting with a slingshot before too long.

I really like this idea. you need to run a pole on this idea and see what hunter feed back on this is, on MM and all the Facebook forums.
I think you might have something.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Are there any differences in legal archery equipment between UT and CO?

IMO, the poor success rate reflects more on the pathetic populations that result from ridiculous uncontrolled hunting pressure.

Two things kill animals - nature and man. If you are going to increase natures bag limit, it stands to reason that you need to reduce man’s if you want to sustain populations.

Argue all you want about how. I find these threads very entertaining.

#backfillbadgerholes

Yes it looks like you can't have a electronic range finder on your bow. everything else is the same as Utah.
Scopes and electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to bow or arrow,

Now I know it would be another Law but I think this one would be a really good one to enforce. I have personally watched people shoot from there atv/side by side.

Carrying loaded firearms (except handguns) on an OHV during deer, elk, pronghorn and bear seasons. Firearms (except handguns) must be unloaded in the chamber and magazine. Firearms (except handguns) and bows must be fully enclosed in a hard or soft case. Scabbards or cases with open ends or sides are prohibited.10. Shooting from or across a public road with a firearm, bow or crossbow. People firing a bow, rifle, handgun or shotgun with a single slug must be at least 50 feet from the centerline of the road.

 

[Bluehair]

Wow. We’ve been repressed and I didn’t even know it.

 

[elkantlers]

If we are trying to limit harvest, why don’t we set up a system where hunters have to report a harvest at the end of the season. Similar to the DH program, you take your unused tag in after the season. If you harvest an animal you have a waiting period and are not eligible to apply for a specified amount of time. I think you would see more hunters be willing to pass animals.

I think there are more ways to limit harvest than by restricting weapons. Maybe something like this would be more effective than weapon restrictions? At the rate we are going we’ll all be hunting with a slingshot before too long.

It's been said that 10% of the hunters do 90% of the killing. If they put a waiting period on successful hunters that would help keep the 10% from killing every year.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

.

 

[OpeningDay]

Let me see if I am following with all that is going on. Trail cam Ban, Bait Ban, Outfitter Posse Ban, Weaponry restrictions. Mostly tools to save some trophy bucks on LE's. Now with these restrictions we want to put double the amount of people in the field ?? Doesn't that counteract the restrictions and get the same amount of bucks killed ? Do this and next year's topic will be How over crowding is killing the herds. I support the Trail Cam Ban, the Bait Ban and especially the Outfitter babysitter ban. Until the HERDS especially Does can rebound, it doesnt matter how we are killing them. We are still going to kill them.

 

[elkantlers]

Let me see if I am following with all that is going on. Trail cam Ban, Bait Ban, Outfitter Posse Ban, Weaponry restrictions. Mostly tools to save some trophy bucks on LE's. Now with these restrictions we want to put double the amount of people in the field ?? Doesn't that counteract the restrictions and get the same amount of bucks killed ? Do this and next year's topic will be How over crowding is killing the herds. I support the Trail Cam Ban, the Bait Ban and especially the Outfitter babysitter ban. Until the HERDS especially Does can rebound, it doesnt matter how we are killing them. We are still going to kill them.

Isn't getting more people hunting a good thing?

 

[bucks]

Right,now if we can ban, cars, trucks,side X sides, four wheelers,Three wheelers, mountain bikes,Electric bikes,Go to only wearing moccasins, have special regulations on horses and mules, now were getting sonehwere!!!

 

[OpeningDay]

Isn't getting more people hunting a good thing?

Yes. It is. However, I personally do not see how you can add more hunters to a herd that is shrinking and create a formula that sustains the resource.

 

[elkantlers]

Yes. It is. However, I personally do not see how you can add more hunters to a herd that is shrinking and create a formula that sustains the resource.

By limiting some technology and practices that make it too easy to kill critters.

This is the way....

 

[OpeningDay]

By limiting some technology and practices that make it too easy to kill critters.

This is the way....

Maybe I am not reading this correctly, but doesn't your formula still equate with the same amount of critters being killed ? Just takes more people to do it . I thought all these limitations were to allow for a few more critters to survive ?

 

[JakeH]

By limiting some technology and practices that make it too easy to kill critters.

This is the way....

Just not rifles...... the weapon with the highest kill rate..... only bows and muzzloaders.....makes total sense.

 

[elkantlers]

Maybe I am not reading this correctly, but doesn't your formula still equate with the same amount of critters being killed ? Just takes more people to do it . I thought all these limitations were to allow for a few more critters to survive ?

More hunters and less success is what the DWR wants.

 

[elkantlers]

Just not rifles...... the weapon with the highest kill rate..... only bows and muzzloaders.....makes total sense.

They are not going restrict rifles in any way. That would open a huge hornets nest that they don't want to deal with.

 

[MountainSqwabler]

I feel like no matter what they try to do to make things "more fair" or legit anything else, the main issue is over population of the human species. More people are born, and it's taking people longer to die, thus more people in the field. Though technology is getting a little ridiculous for hunting, limiting those things will only go so far as far as harvesting rates goes.

 

[middlefork]

More hunters and less success is what the DWR wants.

The DWR is not the ones driving this bus.

 

[MountainSqwabler]

The DWR is not the ones driving this bus.

Big money is driving the bus that's labeled DWR

 

[roadrunner]

Because arguing with people on the internet is apparently more fun and hunters aren't really after problem solving conversations. Instead they want to ask how we can stomp out ways of hunting we don't like.

And when you do have a suggestion, there is always someone who gives you the "" in response...

If UT were truly worried about this so-called problem, they'd pull their heads out of their keisters, and for one, take a rifle hunt for bull elk out of the rut. They would shorten seasons. They would quit dogging cows and does to the ends of the earth.

One cow elk season for 5 days in any unit is more than plenty. You wanna put the hunt back into hunting? Get out in the hills and pound out the miles on your boots looking for the animal instead of a casual evening road hunt over the span of several weeks.