A couple more questions

[horst]

Just looked at some of The knacks pictures over on Realtree.He was showing some of the heavier timber you guys hunt in.See, Im learning already, I thought it was all wide open spaces you guys hunted but apparently theres more to it than I thought.So whats the terrain really like where you all hunt?Mostly open or do you hunt these timber areas a lot?We discussed walking and glassing for deer in my last post kinda.Now, do you set up and watch this timber till you see a deer go into it or do you still hunt through it and hope to get close enough for a shot?And what is the average distance you shoot these deer from.That can be either in the timber or in the open, whichever you hunt more often.Is one easier to hunt than the other?Seriously, I can see where deer in the open would be easier to spot but harder to approach but on the other hand in the timber it seems the shots would be closer but the deer would be harder to locate.How hard is it to approach these deer?On Tv they seem to pretty much just lay there untill you get fairly close to em but Im sure theyre spookier than that in general, tv dont give a very good perspective on how things really work in my experience.

 

[WAZZUP]

most of the shows on tv are hunts on private land',these type of hunts do not interest me, to kill a monster buck on public land you have got to work your a$$ off,thats my kind of hunt.

as far as open country and timber i love to hunt deep black pockets of timber because after the atvs and the first shots go off,the better bucks are going to become much more elusive,and will hole up in the steepest black forest that you can find.

 

[BCBOY]

Horst,
For me it all depends on the Ecotype I'm hunting. Hunting the alpine, there ain't much for trees. A few scrub alpine fir that's about it. But in some of my alpine areas the bucks actualy bed in the subalpine which has much more scrub fir and even the odd big Spruce. I sometimes spend the mornings glassing, and then the afternoons still hunting the subalpine. Just below the subalpine is norammly the big timber, old growth spruce/fir mix with an understory of Rhododendron and Azalea. That is some thick crap. Many a time I've had a big buck just yards from me and I haven't been able to see it.
But when it comes to really thick stuff the Western Red Cedar/Western Hemlock types are the thickest in my book. Slide alder and Devil's Club understory. Hunting that stuff is like pounding your head against a brick wall.
The Sage/grassland ecotypes are mainly spot and stalk. But you do have aspen types and Douglas fir types around them. Many big bucks hide in those types in the day and feed in the open grasslands at night. When I hunt the grasslands, it's glassing in the morning and still hunting the timber types in the afternoon.

 

[kingfish]

horst,
I hunt the open sagebrush ridges just below timberline..Mostly open sage country is my favorite with quakies and pine mixed in...I like to get as high as possible early and glass down into the fingers at the top of these ridges running down and out into the sage flats..The country I hunt in is between 6,000 and 10,000 feet and public land so once your up you stay up...I will hunt the north facing ridges during the warmer part of the day to try to catch bucks bedded in the shaded timber...

 

[DeerKing]

Welcome Horst.... although I barely got that much over at RT Talk about a bunch of uptight people over there.

No thick timber for me. Above timberline country around 11,000-12,000 feet. Do a lot of still hunting below ridge tops, glass a lot in the open parks, willow flats and avalanche chutes. Once you find em you usually have a fun time trying to get within muzzleloader range with all that open country below you. A very physically demanding hunt but easily my favorite type.

 

[oldoregon]

mostly where i hunt is a mikture, it is very steep country. All the south facing slopes are open grassy hillsides with a few big pine. The north facing slopes are all heavy fir timber. I useually just walk wherever i feel like it for a day, keeping my eyes open, and walking slow, glassing ahead of me. When i see deer, i usually jump them up ahead of me, and get a shot, but sometimes I see the, from a long ways off and stalk closer.



Later Yall!!!!

 

[BCBOY]

Here's some pics of the various different ecotypes I hunt.

 

[horst]

Thanks for the replies so far.Sounds like its quite a bit different from what I imagined.I kinda pictured a wide open grassy flatland but it sounds like Im pretty well mistaken.You guys all seem to mention slopes and altitudes, so Im assuming you hunt some kinda mountainas terrain.I lived in Colorado for a few years so what Im hearing described kinda sounds like the mountains there in some cases.I kinda regret not hunting while I lived there but I was young and dumb and more interested in chasing women and finding someone to buy me beer during that phase of my life.In hindsight I shoulda went hunting and left the women alone buts thats another story.

Someone mentioned mule deer on private land as the ones you see them sneaking right up to on TV.How pressured are the mule deer there on the public ground?Are they quite a bit harder to sneak up on then deer on private ground because of hunting pressure or what?I know it stands to reason deer on public ground are gonna be more pressured but Im just having a hard time picturing hordes of hunters being out where some of you guys say you hunt.Anyway, Ill quit babbling again, but it sounds like some beatiful country out there, tell me more about it if you havent already replied.

 

[Q2Dude]

Awesome pics BC! I hunt very similar areas here in California. I try to get a tag for the eastern Sierras every year and hunt the same types of high alpine basins with sage and pine. Usually have a bow in my hand though which makes it a bit challenging, but I wouldnt have it any other way! That is by no means the only way I hunt. You need to adapt to the country that you're hunting in and the time of year that you're there. Late season archery hunting in Arizona to me means still hunting through pinyon/juniper jungles. To me, thats whats so bitchen about hunting the west.

 

[OSOK]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-04 AT 01:30PM (MST)[p]BC

Thanks fore painting us a nice picture, bud!

Horst,

Personally. I've hunted the widest open grass lands to the highest mountain tops above the trees. Mule deer thrive in both and everywhere in between. As to answer your question. Private land deer are not necessarily any more "dumb/tame", whatever you want to use to describe. They are generally higher concentrated in #'s, and if a guy knows what he's doing, more readily found! Again, fore the most part. Public land animals, do receive very heavy pressure in most areas. Depending on season type/date, area. In order for a guy to be successful, consistently. You either hump your rear off on the public!!! Because a "trophy" mature mule deer buck is every bit as cunning as any whitetail. Or you pay to hunt private if you aren't fortunate enough to have some sort of other arrangement. Even then. Prime mule deer ranches, are tough to come by and any more can cost out the ying-yang...

On a side note. You would be suprises at how they can hide in the flattest looking country, and then appear out of no-where. Also, from what I've seen of mule deer hunting on TV!!! None of the deer takin on the Outdoor life, or network channel, would hold up to what I would consider a true "trophy class" animal!!! By the time a buck has reached 5 or 6 years or age. He's one smart dude... Teaching class on a regular basis to even the best hunters, w/ his book of tricks.

To reitterate- The reason you have to hump like a mad man on public, is because the smart bucks that have made it 3 or 4 years, generally live in the deepest, nastiest place he can find, where most people do not care to venture.

Then again. You might get lucky, and shoot one from the road!

 

[DeerKing]

Nice photos BC, looks like some great country. Here is a little Colorado mule deer heaven....
ftp://[email protected]/DeerKing/bllscolor.JPG
ftp://[email protected]/DeerKing/littlei2.JPG

 

[horst]

BC, thanks for the pics, that is some beatiful country you got there.I can see where its well worth hiking back into to hunt.I gotta admitt, I get tired of looking at cornstalks and cattails everyplace I go, you all got quite a range of habitat there to pick from.

Osok, im really kinda suprised, looking at all that area I cant help but wonder how many guys would have to hunt it to put a lotta pressure on those areas.Seriously, around here you get 10 or 12 guys trying to hunt the same 80 acre patch of public ground every night and these whitetails become like ghosts.Seems like out there theyd have enough room to stay clear of the majority of hunting pressure but I guesse public ground gonna be public ground wherever you go.I take it when you say the private grounds got higher #s of deer its because they limit te number of hunters every year.

A lotta the deer taken on the Outdoor channel are pretty young I think.You ever watch Eastmans hunting jornal?{SP??}They have some real old footage of some real nice bucks taken by that guys dad like 30 yrs ago, they werent hunting them, just filming them if I remember right.Comparing that film to the footage of the hunts they show now you can really see the difference.

While Im bugging you guys I might as well throw in another stupid question.Since I dont really know any of yu I dont know how long youve been hunting mule deer.But I keep reading articals abot how the average size of the mule deer racks taken every year are a lot smaller then they were years ago.And I also keep reading about mule deer numbers being at an all time low.So is this true in your opinion?Compared to when you started hunting them I mean are the deer really getting smaller and the poulations going down in your opinions?Dont get me wrong, I know theres still some great deer out there but are they as common as they used to be?

 

[OSOK]

You're right. Public, is public. You gotta work your butt off, to find a spot, which generally means working harder and farther than the other guy.

Deer #'s!!! That's laughable. If deer were as good now, as they were when I was a kid (10-15 years ago), me and a couple of the guys I know, including some that are here would be famous. It's been getting tougher and tougher w/ every year. I'm being forced to hunt new country, that I've never even stepped foot in before.

 

[oldoregon]

here is some of the country i hunt.

All of those pictures were taken within a 60 mile radius her in northeastern oregon. Most are more than 20 miles from civilization.


These picture were taken in the town of saratoga wyoming, dont think you could get that close during season though!!

Later Yall!!!!

 

[horst]

oldoregan, awesome pictures, thanks for sharing them.The ones in Saratoga, were they actually in town?Just wondering, theres buildings in the background in most of em, or were they just near town?Either way, them are good pics.

Osok,
These deer numbers down from overhunting or what?I really dont know how they run the licensing system out there is it over the counter or more of a drawing?Just was wondering what you think would cause the numbers to drop like that, in the articals Ive read they dont seem to know or dont wanna say.There was some mention of habitat loss and mule deer not being as adaptable as whitetails but they never mention hunting as a factor. They also mention whitetails moving into mule deer range and them not being able to compete.In areas where you dont see the deer you used to is there more whitetails than there used to be?Im really curious about this, I cant understand how one species of deer can adapt so well to almost anything and another species could have such a dramatic population drop given the same factors.

 

[oldoregon]

yep they are downtown. but that does not mean they are stupid, they just know that hunting season is long gone.


Later Yall!!!!

 

[OSOK]

Horst,

You could jump over to the Mule deer forum. It's probably on page 2, I think. But there's a thread over there named, "The decline of mule deer", or something along those lines... It lists off the majority of the reasons why our mulie heards are suffering. In my core home field honey hole areas. The Colorado Division of Wildlife, has pretty much slaughtered all in the name of CWD! These units held some of the best bucks in the world as recently as 3-10 years ago. Now they are gone...

 

[horst]

Ill check that post out osok, thanks.

 

[TheKnack]

horst-
Sorry it took me awhile to find your post.
The pictures I posted were only a couple I already had downloaded and were a general way to show that Colorado is not all open.
I agree with most since I have hunted muledeer from sage, pine, aspen, oakbrush, pinion and timberline. The country can change depending on what area of the state you hunt like most other states.
In my opinion no area is actually easy to hunt muledeer in. The animals adapt to the habitat and the bigger bucks get big by not being dumb just like any whitetails on public land out east.

The most challenging hunting I would say is the pinion junipers or the timberline country. In the pinions the deer can hide in an area the size of a football field and you can walk right by them and never know. In the timberline country the deer can spot you from a long ways and be over the next ridgeline before you get close enough for a shot.

Most of the TV shows you see on muledeer and whitetails can be taken with a grain of salt. Literally a grain of salt. Get it.LOL
Best,
Jerry

 

[horst]

JEEZ, that post on the decline of trophy mule deer looks like a novel.Interesting reading so far but Im gonna need awhile to get clear through it Im afraid.

Knack,
While we dont have the thick timber and such you do where I hunt is mostly slough ground.After the corn and beans come out these sloughs are where the big bucks head and Im not to sure they even come back out of em except maybe during the rut.These areas to you can walk past deer and never know they are there.The cattails and slough grass are so thick you spend most of your time backtracking and trying to find deer trails to get through them then you do walking forward.Somehow these deer make dead end trails in this stuff and 9 outta 10 times you wind up at the end with a solid 6 ft wall of cattails blocking your path.And even in the coldest winters theres always springs where the ice doesnt form very thick.It really sucks when you get out in the middle of 1400 acres of cattails and hit one of these, escpecially when its -20 out.Then since motor vehicles are restricted if you do get a deer you get to try dragging it back out through this maze of cattails and open water, it can be pretty challenging.

Before that when the crops are still in you gotta try and figure out which standing cornfields holding the best deer.Since one cornfield pretty much looks like another this can be frustrating to.Most of the time you find good sign, big rubs, scrapes, tracks, and find out later the deers staying across the road and crossing over after dark every night.I hunted a 12 pointer for 3 months and wound up killing him 1 1/2 miles from where he was leaving all the sign, he was making a big circle after dark and I wasted 3 months hunting the wrong properties before I caught up with him LOL.You read a lot about home ranges and stuff in magazines but these deer dont have them, the cover and habitat in these farming areas are always changing and the deer move right along with em, a lotta times yor hunting deer that are no longer there if you dont pay pretty close attention to little changes in the fields and stuff.Like most things on TV the shows they film in Iowa are not the normal hunting you would expect here.Probably 3/4 of the state doesnt have the quality of deer these shows make out that we have, or at least not in the number they show.

Despite that where you guys got miles of public ground to pick from we got a steady stream of outta staters and hunting guides buying up all the best hunting ground for ridiculous prices and closing it off to lifelong resident hunters for good, even in the less popular areas of the state.When I was a kid you never seen a no tresspassing sign around here and could walk fdorver if you wanted to.Now people call the law if you stop next to their property in your car to read a map or something, its getting pretty nuts.Well, enough about this little corner of the world, it probably asint real interesting reading anyway LOL.