Caliber for elk/mule deer

[buglemuley]

I’m in the market for a new gun. Exploring a bunch of options.. I don’t reload so I’ll be shooting factory ammo. Leaning towards a .300 win mag but am open to others. Mainly for mule deer and elk but could see the occasional antelope hunt. Is a .300 win mag too big? Other calibers you would consider or reasons to stay away from a 300?

 

[elkantlers]

300WM is a great round. It would be capable of anything you want to hunt.

 

[heywouldya]

The 300WM is a great caliber. Get a muzzle break, or prepare yourself for a heck of a kick. I'm sure that doesn't apply to all manufacturer's, but the ones I've shot, I didn't enjoy.
I rally like my .270 WBY and just bought a .28 Nosler i really like (with a break). Honestly, we own several .270's, and that is a great all around caliber.
Good luck on your new rifle!!

 

[257Tony]

The cartridge you choose for your new rifle is not really that important. There's dozens that would do what you need. I'd buy one that you can afford to shoot a good amount, confidence in your rifle is super important when it comes time to make the shot.

 

[Tmac]

300 WM will certainly do the job. If you are seeking magnums, a 7mm Rem Mag would give similar results with a little less recoil. 6.5PRC would be another magnum like performer with moderate recoil. For me a 7mm-08 checks a lot of boxes. As would most 6.5’s, 270’s, 7mm’s.

 

[gundog2]

300 WM has heavy recoil even with muzzle brake. The muzzle brakes produce obnoxious noise for yourself and peeps around you. If you have to ask if it is “too big”, then it might be more than you really want. It depends on your level of experience and tolerance. Even if you can handle it now, you might grow wary of the beast in years to come.

Although I have been shooting belted magnums for many years (7 mm Rem Mag, .300 Weatherby Mag, 300 Win Mag, and .338 Win Mag), I would probably shy away from belted magnums (anything with .375 H&H mag parent case). The 7 mm Rem Mag is a good alternative to the .300 Win Mag, but it is also a belted magnum. Belted magnums create some issues with head spacing and reloading. It is not really a big deal for most people, even if they do reload, but I think some experts would say that the belt is unnecessary in modern rifles. It is just a legacy of the .375 H&H parent case. With all that said, I bought a new 7 mm Rem Mag a couple years ago and it is my favorite gun ever, mostly because it is the best quality gun I ever owned and the recoil not too bad. The 7 mm Rem Mag has adequate knock-down power for elk out to any range that I would shoot.

Classic alternatives to the magnums would include .30-06 Springfield, .308 Win, 7mm-08 or .270 Win. I’d like to have a high-quality gun chambered for the .270 Win, but it would be hard to justify getting another one in addition to all the other guns that I already have. Some newer cartridges that are worth serious consideration would include 6.8 Western, 7mm PRC, and maybe even the .338 Weatherby RPM. The latter cartridges were designed with the best available modern technologies in mind, but it might be hard to find ammo for some of these new chambers.

Any of the calibers mentioned above will be great if you find the right gun. I would be more concerned about getting a good quality gun and scope than I would be worried about any of these calibers.

 

[Togwotee]

The 300 Win Mag is a great all-around cartridge, especially if you want to use factory loads. you couldn't go wrong with it.

Recoil isn't a problem , I have a Webernick 300 win mag that weighs 7 1/4 lbs. field ready with no brake I've killed a lot of game with. my wife uses it these days and she's a smaller gal. anyone can handle the recoil of a 300 if they cowboy up a little.

 

[Chesterwyo]

270 or a 30-06 would be the easy button.

 

[heywouldya]

The 300 Win Mag is a great all-around cartridge, especially if you want to use factory loads. you couldn't go wrong with it.

Recoil isn't a problem , I have a Webernick 300 win mag that weighs 7 1/4 lbs. field ready with no brake I've killed a lot of game with. my wife uses it these days and she's a smaller gal. anyone can handle the recoil of a 300 if they cowboy up a little.

I'll sell you my 300 win, it'll rattle your molars cowboy. Like I said, not all manufacturers are the same, some rifles have less recoil, but mine flat out kicks!

 

[Togwotee]

They kick, not going to argue that. but it's nothing you can't manage if you want to. I don't shoot the lightweight magnums from the bench any more than I have to and when hunting I don't even notice it.

the only gun I ever got rid of over recoil was a custom 338 RUM I had built. every time you pulled the trigger it was like pizzing off Mike Tyson. I didn't need that kind of power so the punishment wasn't worth it.

 

[Gunnihunter]

I like the 300 WM, 180 or 200 gr. for elk and 150 gr. for deer and antelope. I like the flatter 150 gr. for antelope. I never notice the recoil when making a shot on an animal, practice shooting is another story. I won’t hunt elk with anything else.

 

[littlebighorn]

I would ask how much shooting experience you have and how sensitive are you to recoil. Several on here are telling you 300 WM recoil is no big deal, but that's to them and not you.
I once hunted antelope with a guy who bought a brand new 300 WM for the trip. We went out to sight in, and handed him his gun empty but told him it was loaded. He settled in and jerked the trigger like he was setting the hook on a big fish, anticipating the recoil. It was clear that the 300 WM recoil was a problem for him.
If you are not very experienced, I'd recommend a cartridge that is somewhat less biting, again as others have mentioned.
There are plenty of 300 WM owners who shoot it just fine, and it is a great cartridge if you can shoot it well. However, it's way more expensive to feed and you are less likely to practice with it, so at least keep that in mind.
I've been shooting/hunting for over 50 years but when I'm headed to the range, I seldom reach for the 300.
That's just me.

 

[sambo3006]

I think 7mm cartridges recoil noticeably less than their .30 cal counterparts, and would not hesitate to hunt elk with one. I would look at a 7mm Rem mag or a 7mm PRC, or even a .280 Ackley now that factory ammo is available for it. If you want to match the ballistic coefficient of a 7mm bullet in a .30 cal, bullet weight and also recoil goes up by a fair amount.
Or, as previously suggested, you could go with a .270 or .30-06 and kill game just the same with reasonable recoil.

 

[NevadaSheep]

What does a 30 cal accomplish ballistically that a 7mm doesn’t? Nothing, and your hit rate will be improved with a 7mm given the more mild recoil with the 7mm (7 PRC would be my choice of the 7s).

Furthermore, a 7PRC doesn’t get you too much more than a 6.5PRC, with the right bullet selection I should say. A 147 ELDM out of a 6.5 PRC is the easy button for western big game in my opinion. Arguably the best killing bullet on the market packaged in a short action with limited recoil (improved hit rates) and terminal velocity out to 900 yards or more at Utah elevations.

The fact is, 10 years ago and earlier when bullet designs were limited (and poor) and the proliferation of turret scopes and MOA range finders hadn’t occurred yet, large magnums made some sense. Today however with excellent bullet choices (bullet technology has come along way!), I’d suggest moving down in caliber size. Any ELDM bullet will kill when properly placed and maintaining speeds over 1900 fps or so. Play around with ballistic apps I think you’ll be surprised.

I recently switched from a 7PRC to a 6CM, launching 108 ELDMs at 3100 fps. Zero recoil and terminal velocity (2000 fps) out to 900+ yards. Ridiculously easy to shot and can spot shots the whole way to impact. One shot, bang flops on two cow elk last year at 631” and 788” yards respectively.

Whatever caliber you choose, pair with ELD M(urder) bullets.

 

[Togwotee]

What would be the advantage on the M as a hunting bullet? you're giving up the thicker tapered jacket and interlock ring I don't see how that's good. at extreme range it might be ok but at closer ranges the ELD-X is too explosive already.

 

[NevadaSheep]

Animals die because their brain shuts down. Either trauma to the central nervous system (head/neck/spine) OR they loose enough blood (lung/heart/artery). I don’t want an exit. I want that bullet to fragment and cut as much tissue as possible. That is it. If a bullet exits then you are keeping some of it together. Less tissue gets cut. The best case is the most trauma possible, to turn the chest cavity into jelly soup. Choosing a bullet to optimize bullet retention minimizes the possibility of maximum trauma. The importance of using such “match” style bullets (ELDM) increases at longer ranges.

The ELDM has found a sweet spot of getting 4-5 inches of penetration before the fragmentation occurs. This results in both a large and long wound channel and opens up a better range of angles available for the shot. This also helps with shoulder shots. A 108 ELDM will get through a shoulder and destruct into the chest cavity on exit from the shoulder. A other destructive bullets such as a Berger on the other hand tend to begin destructing on impact and thus lose some depth to the wound channel.

ELDXs offer similar characteristics to the the ELDM and are a great bullet. For whatever reason though, my experience has been the ELDMs are just more consistent. The ELDM also offers a meaningfully improvement in ballistic coefficients over the ELDX, and they just plain shot better.

 

[Togwotee]

Assuming your shot placement is perfect I get what you're saying. but how realistic is that.

From shooting and seeing probably 200 elk shot I have concluded the Nosler Partition gives optimum bullet performance on impact. if they could duplicate that in a high BC bullet you'd have the perfect bullet for any shot.

I guess until then we'll have to compromise and pick a bullet that works best for your expected shots. I'm not sure what that is so for now I carry Partitions and VLD's.

 

[NevadaSheep]

Probably merits to both our views here but my experience is the opposite. My experience is that properly constructed match bullets act as insurance against poor shot placement. If shot placement is poor, the purpose of the bullet doesn’t change. I’m still looking for the maximum amount of trauma as possible to either impact the central nervous system or limit blood supply. In fact, this is even more important for me in this scenario then when the shot is good. A traditional, retention-oriented bullet works well when the shot is good, but with a limited wound channel you are reducing the margin of error in your shot placement.

There are very few angles I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking on an elk with an ELDM. I know there will be a large and long path of destruction. I wouldn’t go that far with other match bullets however such as the Barnes Matchburners or Berger Hybrids. Again, they self destruct too rapidly and the wound channels aren’t long enough to my liking on certain angles. They are Ok for deer sized game and down but for elk I prefer the additional inches of penetration before shedding occurs.

 

[NevadaSheep]

Probably merits to both our views here but my experience is the opposite. My experience is that properly constructed match bullets act as insurance against poor shot placement. If shot placement is poor, the purpose of the bullet doesn’t change. I’m still looking for the maximum amount of trauma as possible to either impact the central nervous system or limit blood supply. In fact, this is even more important for me in this scenario then when the shot is good. A traditional, retention-oriented bullet works well when the shot is good, but with a limited wound channel you are reducing the margin of error in your shot placement.

There are very few angles I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking on an elk with an ELDM. I know there will be a large and long path of destruction. I wouldn’t go that far with other match bullets however such as the Barnes Matchburners or Berger Hybrids. Again, they self destruct too rapidly and the wound channels aren’t long enough to my liking on certain angles. They are Ok for deer sized game and down but for elk I prefer the additional inches of penetration before shedding occurs.

 

[Togwotee]

But if you have a quartering shot, or hit bone I want a bullet that will keep going. I can't say the ELD-M won't do that but I've seen the SST fail and it's a better constructed bullet that the ELD-M , very similar to the ELD-X. it just sounds risky.

It's hard to say, everyone has their idea of best bullet performance, and it depends on so many factors. I had high hopes the Accubond LR would be the bullet but it's a big dud. I killed two bulls with the Barnes X bullet and I won't use them again. too little shock.

I've only taken one bull with the Beger VLD and I was impressed, but it was the perfect application for that particular bullet . a nice bull at 735 yards through one scapula and out the off side. took a couple steps and fell dead. but at 100 yards it might have been a grenade.

I'm playing with the trophy bonded tipped boattail similar to a partition in construction. seems like it could be perfect but the accuracy isn't up to par so far and I'm not sure I'll get it there.

 

[Chesterwyo]

All this talk about killing bullets, not one mention of the original Nosler Accubond, Barnes TTSX, Barnes LRX, Nosler E-Tip, Federal Edge TLR, Hammer. Hornady Interbond. Or for the guys who aren’t shooting long range, Hornady Interlock, Nosler Partition, Nosler Ballistic Tip, Federal Fusion.

 

[mtmuley]

Probably merits to both our views here but my experience is the opposite. My experience is that properly constructed match bullets act as insurance against poor shot placement. If shot placement is poor, the purpose of the bullet doesn’t change. I’m still looking for the maximum amount of trauma as possible to either impact the central nervous system or limit blood supply. In fact, this is even more important for me in this scenario then when the shot is good. A traditional, retention-oriented bullet works well when the shot is good, but with a limited wound channel you are reducing the margin of error in your shot placement.

There are very few angles I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking on an elk with an ELDM. I know there will be a large and long path of destruction. I wouldn’t go that far with other match bullets however such as the Barnes Matchburners or Berger Hybrids. Again, they self destruct too rapidly and the wound channels aren’t long enough to my liking on certain angles. They are Ok for deer sized game and down but for elk I prefer the additional inches of penetration before shedding occurs.

Hey, a double shot. Just like you need with Hornady bullets. mtmuley

 

[Togwotee]

All this talk about killing bullets, not one mention of the original Nosler Accubond, Barnes TTSX, Barnes LRX, Nosler E-Tip, Federal Edge TLR, Hammer. Hornady Interbond. Or for the guys who aren’t shooting long range, Hornady Interlock, Nosler Partition, Nosler Ballistic Tip, Federal Fusion.

Probably some aren't mentioned because they're not great long range bullets. I'm not impressed with the solid coper bullets of any brand , it's like long range archery hunting you just poke a hole in them. the original Accubonds are good, but too low of a BC and bullet weights are lacking in some calibers. in my opinion for long range there's Berger and Hornady then there's the me too stuff.

For shots out to 500 yards I agree with you. the Partition, interlock , Accubond and a few others are fantastic. no need to look any farther.

 

[Bwht4x4]

I'd go with a 280 ai or a 7mm PRC. I love my 280 ai and my other rifles are just collecting dust now.