Absolutely raw op ed on Iraq

Not a bad read but remember this, Iraq did nothing to us we were the aggressor so just how ruthless can we justify being under those conditions? I don't think it's fair to judge this country over this disaster, if Iraq had pulled a stunt like Japan did at Pearl or they pulled off 9/11 we would have unified and hammered them. look how little opposition there is to the military operation to find Bin Laden, we all agree on that because it's justified, there's no big story or mystery behind the lack of support for Iraq, it's common sense.
 
"Not a bad read but remember this, Iraq did nothing to us we were the aggressor so just how ruthless can we justify being under those conditions? I don't think it's fair to judge this country over this disaster, if Iraq had pulled a stunt like Japan did at Pearl or they pulled off 9/11 we would have unified and hammered them. look how little opposition there is to the military operation to find Bin Laden, we all agree on that because it's justified, there's no big story or mystery behind the lack of support for Iraq, it's common sense."

Your joking Right? Lets say that Iraq never did anything to offend the Americans.. (this not true however) but anyhow dont you think that just the fact that the "Head of Iraq" year after year continue to slaughter their own civilians is enough for us to step in? come on man! Saddam went straight to hell where he belongs.
 
Lots of people do lots of things to other people, we didn't have to get involved here anymore than anywhere else and that's not why we're in this mess. nobody says Saddam wasn't a cull but the cost to us to take him out is very high, time will tell if we did anyone a favor, it's not over or near as simple as you make it sound.
 
I think the crux of the whole article is that Americans and especially the politicians, do not have the stones, since WWII, to prosecute a war to its fruition.

This article is not about Iraq. Iraq is just a good example. This is about politically correct countries completely shackled by popular opinion and mainstream media. Ergo, if we fought say the European Union, perhaps the rules dictated by the Geneva Convention, would apply. The problem is that we are up against 3rd world savages who fight to win, not to win popularity contests. They behead, they burn, they shock; ultimately they win because "civilized" peoples simply cannot fathom real-time barbarity.

If we hope to win in Iraq, or any future conflicts, screw the rules and let hell rain down. You will never win a fight to the death like John Wayne did. You get your opponent on the ground and put the boots to them, then go after the families. Cut off the head and the body dies.

Perhaps long-winded rhetoric, but I believe its true. I think that Peters' has hit it head on.
 
Anyone calling the US the "aggressor" is either totally ignorant or a complete idiot.

Good post Jim, I think you are probably right.
 
I agree with what you say about the 3rd world enemy.

I wouldn't under estimate America. You mess with this country we'll put the hurt on you by doing whatever it takes, we've never lost a war where our country depended on winning and given just cause I think we still have it. Iraq meets none of the criteria to draw any resolve from us, we can't be judged by it.
 
OK wise guy what did Iraq do to us? no crap about they were rude or something I mean what did they do that warranted the destruction of their country? I doubt you know anything Bush and Cheney wouldn't have told us by now.
 
Excellent article. Saddam himself told Dan Rather the Americans don't have what it takes to win in Iraq. He was right.

There's a place in Iraq called the "Triangle of Death" (somewhere near Baghdad). It should be known around the world as the "Triangle of Dust" from the carpet bombing.

Right now the terrorists are having great fun playing cat and mouse.
 
Remember when the news media was calling the start of this war "shock and Aww"? I say we do the old "shock and Aww" again and again and again.. then there is no more "cat and mouse" and no one but the U.S. is having fun.. Im really not that harsh but the Bast&$^%% had it coming..
 
Why did they have it coming? what did they do? viking must still be working on that one too so help him out. Saddam and some of his chronies may have got what they deserved but we had no problems with the people of Iraq before we bombed and occupied them.
 
"Why did they have it coming? what did they do?"

You are trying to spin this off course again. Follow me now. It could have been Planet Zoltron that we invaded, for no reason whatsoever. It doesn't matter if anyone did anything to us.

The article is pointing out that Americans lack the nads for extended warfare against any 3rd world fanatic that will strap bombs to their kids and send them into a school. We are too "civilized" and we play by extremely restrictive "rules of engagement."

The author uses Iraq as the real time example to explain that we, as civilized Americans, are doomed to fail in 21st century warfare. You could just as easily take the point of this article and use it as a template to write about the immigration situation. We do not have the courage to do anything about it. We lack the ruthlessness. To wit, we will suffer for it. We are suffering for it.
 
I say we take all our convicted felons in prison and send them over to Iraq to fight. Atleast we'll get our monies worth out of them. You probably won't find more ruthless people.
 
Dude it gets old telling you over and over again the facts of the matter while you spin and distort them. The justification for the war has been covered here over and over. How many UN resolutions did he violate and for how many years including violating the no fly zones so he could murder his people? How many times did he fire on our troops patrolling the no-fly zones? At times he was firing on them every day. The biggest reason was he was trying to do anything he could to attack us with the WMD's he was developing. (You see after 9-11 we know we can't wait to see if we are going to be attacked.) We know that because bill clinton, al gore, john kerry and all your other liberal hero's told us so. That was long before we went back to war with them. You see it was a resumption of the hostilities we stopped years before. Had saddaam done what he was asked to do by the UN he would still be in power today.

President Bush, being a real leader, made the RIGHT decision.
 
Jim, it does make a difference what they did, a big one. if someone calls me a name I'll probably tell them to shut up, if they wack me one I'm out for blood. cause and effects they say, war is a fight and without fear, hate or revenge don't expect a good one.

viking you can't use violation of UN mandates as a reason when the UN ask us not to bomb Iraq, they had weapons inspectors begging us to let them do their job do you remember that? there was no hurry Bush made a snap decision and we're paying for it, your reasoning is weak at best and nobody's buying it. the blame game is played out and we're all tired of it. we were the aggressor and as such we can leave because we started it, that was my point.
 
Hypothetical: A dirty bomb is lit off in Oregon. Kills thousands, sickens more. Weapon is traced to a terror group working out of and endorsed by Pakistan (they do have nukes).

Would America level Pakistan, dominate it and make it ours? No. Too many bleeding heart, politically correct, handwringing wussy's running the show.

America simply does not have the resolve re: is too civilized to do what is necessary. Therefore, we are in more danger than ever before. So, right now, if we do not have the resolve to turn parts of Iraq into a Walmart parking lot, then we should get out now. Waste nary another American life. Have troops on standby for the inevitable attack to follow us...here.
 
> viking you can't use violation
>of UN mandates as a
>reason when the UN ask
>us not to bomb Iraq,
>they had weapons inspectors begging
>us to let them do
>their job do you remember
>that? there was no hurry
>Bush made a snap decision
>and we're paying for it,
>your reasoning is weak at
>best and nobody's buying it.
>the blame game is played
>out and we're all tired
>of it. we were the
>aggressor and as such we
>can leave because we started
>it, that was my point.
>


OMG!!!! What a clueless bunch of BS that is!! You falsely rewrite history into a neat little package that fits your political beliefs.

That, dude, is pathetic.





Brahma >>>------>
Take thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison. And make me savoury meat, such as I love. Genesis 27
 
Your question is tough because of the situation we have with terrorist. with that logic we should have nuked Saudi Arabia because Bin Laden and his thugs came from there, that's hardly practical since they weren't representing the Saudi's. with that same logic Bush and all the people of the USA are responsible for anything any American does even if they act alone without government approval, how much sense does that make? we aren't fighting countries as much as we are individuals, this is a whole new game we've never played before and we're doing poorly at it.

It's not a matter of resolve in Iraq as much as justification. again with the inevitable attacks if we leave, prove it. you have a theory it's not a fact.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-07 AT 09:45PM (MST)[p]OMG, we did not destroy their country, dumbass.
Did we destroy Japan?
Did we destroy Europe?

I have friends over their right now. You know what they are doing? They are not slaughtering women and kids, they are not shooting up the town and blowing up bridges, they are not raping and pillaging. They are digging fresh water wells, building water treatment plants, laying plumbing and sanitation lines, building schools and hospitals, patrolling the streets at night. Training new police officers.

Turn off MSDNC once in awhile and get some real world facts.
 
Dude are you talking about the same UN inspectors that saddam kept throwing out of the country? The same ones that his men shot at on several occassions when they tried to make unannounced visits to some of his facilities?

I hardly call over a decade and 17 some odd UN resolutions a snap decision. I guess you are right, we should have waited for him to arm terrorist groups with WMD's first.

Look out everyone dude is back to rewriting history!
 
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Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"
 
For a bunch of guys with all the answers you still haven't answered what Iraq did to us have you? just more pom pom shaking and puffing up, save the crap and give some facts if you have them.


moneyman you're not to bright if you think Iraq isn't a mess, sure it's not all in ruins but it's broken even Bush doesn't dispute that. wake up and pull your head out, if things weren't a mess why would Bush want a troop surge , billions of dollars and beg for more time to fix it? so you just blame the media, you're too dumb to argue with. we'll see just how sweet Iraq is in September, or is Petraeus in bed with the media too?
 
"For a bunch of guys with all the answers you still haven't answered what Iraq did to us have you? just more pom pom shaking and puffing up, save the crap and give some facts if you have them."

For the last and final time, this thread is about an article laying bare Americas lack of resolve. Our short attention spans. It happened in Somalia. It happened in Vietnam. It happened in Iran in the late 70's. Its happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Again. The article is not about justification. You just keep trying to spin it into something its not. For gawds sakes man. It could be any country.

You and your ilk just need the "justification angle." Its all you have and you cling to it as it is the justification you require to keep the fires of hatred you have for the Bush Administration burning brightly.

As far as the Saudi Arabia comments, I agree. Lets turn them into a glass factory. I beleive that most acts terrorism can trace their funding back to there. Our presence in the ME is the only thing keeping lunatic religious nut-cases from controlling the bulk of the worlds energy market.

But no, we can't. We lack the resolve, the ruthlessness to dominate the UAE. Capiche?
 
Dude how many times do we need to give you the facts before you can understand them? Reread above posts and concentrate on reading comprehension.
 
Jim you don't get it, justification matters 100%. if Canada sent some drugs into the US and pissed Bush of would we nuke them and then beat to death any survivors? no.

On the other hand if they attacked us and murdered women and kids we'ld go postal on them, how can I explain justification and it's importance on war? you want 100% support behind any president that says we need to fight, it's never going to happen unless the people feel the cause is justified, I don't care what president or what country can you understand that? given these facts you can't call Americans gutless cowards because they don't follow like sheep to a cause the don't feel is justified.

Viking quit blabbering just say flat out what Iraq did that justifies this 5+ year war. no shell games or could'a would's should'a but what did they do that Iran, N Korea , Syria and others aren't doing as we speak?
 
I explained it all to you. If you can't comprehend the written english language then please find a republican to read it to you.

You don't want to understand facts you just want to spin everything. Justification has all ready been explained. I'll say again had saddam done what the UN told him to do for over 10 years he would still be in power.

Iran N korea and syria all have evil leaders that need to be dealt with. We are, if you haven't noticed, trying to deal with them diplomatically so far. Something that didn't work with Iraq for over a decade.
 
Oh I get it just fine, dude. Either you don't get the gist of the article, or you do and don't agree with it (which is fine) and are trying to make hay out of it. Or you are just arguing for arguements sake, which I suspect is the case. It defines you on this board.

Viking raises another good example. We are trying to deal diplomatically with N. Korea, Iran, Syria. It ain't working, of course. We also lack the resolve to deal with them militarily.

So, since "justification" is your noun of choice inre to the troubles the US faces, would we be justified in taking Iran to task, militarily, for supplying weapons to the insurgents and terrorists who are picking of our troops? Do you think we have the ruthlessness and the resolve to persecute said action to its end?

Two simple questions.
 
That's weak viking, if the UN didn't want him bombed then you can't use them as a reason. again what did Iraq do to US that warranted a 5+ year war? your jabber hasn't answered that yet. we're asking Iran to heip us with Iraq, I'm in favor of that but it's hardly the same approach we used in Iraq.
 
Jim the only way we could fight Iran would be with nuclear weapons because we couldn't handle it by conventional means in the foreseeable future. I , this country and the world are not ready for that and for good reason. so the answer to your question is no, because it isn't justified.
 
dude I keep answering your question and you keep asking it again. Like I said if you don't understand the answer ask someone for help explaining it to you. It's really not that difficult to comprehend.
 
Dude "justification matters 100%"

To how? you,France?


Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"
 
It's ok viking nobody has an answer, Karl Rove would have you as his staff chief if you had a valid one.

Kyle, you don't need to justify a war? and the degree of military action you bring to bear doesn't depend on anything? I guess if justification isn't needed in your mind it wouldn't.

I tell you I don't know if some of you are shock jocks who like to jerk " evil lib's " chains with rediculous statements or if you're just a bunch of mouth breathing toothless Bubba's. some of you don't have much of a sense of humor so I'm leaning towards the latter.
 
This thread is exactly why no one here takes your seriously DUD. You don't agree with the justification stated several times so you pretend there isn't any. Keep your head in the sand.
 
You're right I don't accept your vague and round about way of a hint of a sorta reason. polls show most other Americans don't either, you're the one with your head somewhere it seems. I don't see anything in your nut shell game of reasons that justifies the mess we have in Iraq, I still feel justification is part of any military action we undertake, I'm amazed that's an attitude that has to be defended. we will throw everything we have at an enemy if it's justified, we're not wimps we're just not stupid and there's your problem.
 

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