abusing iraqi prisoners

M

marksmen

Guest
did you see those pictures of the americans abusing iraqis. makes me mad. the people doing that are as bad as sudaam. then they go and say that they have justified reasons for doing that. just freekin stupid. Bush is having a hard enough time trying to be relected. this should really help him out.
 
Am I missing something here? What's this got to do with the General Hunting Forum? Go to the Campfire forum. We're hunting here!!
 
Bush is trying to be relected or re-elected? I'm not sure what relected means, so I'll assume yuou mean re-elected.

If those prisoners were trying to kill our troups they should torture them. They should sit them on a sharp 2X4 until it makes it's way through them. Then they should send out leaflets with pictures of the rag head pop-cicle sticks to all the locals as a warning.

If Bush doesn't get re-elected (relected) it's because our country is full of un-informed idiots.

Satan009.gif
 
longgun this has a lot to do with general hunting. If Kerry gets elected, hunting may change a lot. with stupid butts like that doing stupid stuff over in iraq bush gets a bad image, then kerry gets elected takes your guns away, and then what do you do. so just to answer your question, this has a lot to do with general hunting, because if kerry gets elected hunting as we know it may change.
 
Dillinger, what does yuou mean? since i'm the idiot who can't spell re-elcted i needed some help with yuou. don't make fun of someone when you can't spell anything yourself. do you understand?
 
this reminds me of the movie "Tombstone" when doc holliday told ike clanton that maybe cards wasn't his game and suggested that maybe they "should have a spellin' contest". i love these spellin' arguments. one guy makes fun o' the other guy and always misspells something in his re-butt-all. on the subject of iraqi prisoners, it's a sad deal. pretty hard to argue that we're the good guys with this crap happenin'. one thing tho, all the photos i've seen show the same chick with a buncha nekked iraqis. even our chick soldiers are mean.
 
I think it's a stretch to tie Pres. Bush in with what those few soldiers did in Iraq. It's not like he sent orders to the soldiers to do it. I think that if you're honest with yourself you know that no President of this United States (Republican or otherwise) would order any such thing. The President is innocent, and those few soldiers are guilty. The U.S. ALWAYS tries to treat everyone well, even prisoners, but when you're talking about 100,000+ troops, there's bound to be some that get off the beaten path a little. In a totaly unrelated matter, my buddy drew an antolope tag and invited me to film his hunt. Should be fun!
 
i never said he told them to do it. but everybody is mad about the iraq war as it is. it just gives bush a bad reputation. with all the publicity media is putting in this deal.
 
First, I'm not condoning the torture of the prisoners captured in Iraq, but I'm also not condemning it. I'm not over there. I'm not being shot at by these people on a daily basis. I don't have to worry about roadside bombs. I don't have to listen to the hate coming out of their mouths. So, I don't feel comfortable judging or condemning these American soldiers. I'll pray for them, but I won't speak out against them until I've been where they are.

Second, where was all of the outrage from France and Germany and the media over the innocent civilians that were killed, burned, and hung from a bridge? Where was all of the outrage over the torture of American GIs that were captured by the Iraqis in DS 1 or last year during OIF? The bottom line is we are at war. War is uncivilized. Germany, Japan, North Korea, Vietnam, Iran, and now Iraq have all participated in torture of American citizens. I'd be willing to bet there were atrocities committed during each of those wars by Americans as well. There are rules for behavior in war (Geneva Convention) but it seems that only the US and coalition forces are required to abide by them. Why is it OK for the extremist to kidnap and/or kill any civilian they want but the US forces get vilified when a few soldiers are accused of torturing POW's?

I think part of the "outrage" is because people forget this is war. They also forget that rights granted under the Bill of Rights and constitution only apply to American citizens. The rules that apply down at the corner jail have no bearing in the international community in times of war.

If you lost family or friends on 9/11 what would you do if you could get your hands on some of the extremist who either participated in or supported that event? What if you saw your buddies blown to pieces by a road side bomb and then got your hands on people who either did it or who were proud of it? I'm not saying the torture was justified, but let's not start calling for a change in president, a change in national policy, or the crucifixion of our own soldiers without knowing all of the facts. A knee jerk reaction to the reported behavior of a couple of dozen young men and women does not solve anything. Remember, these kids are under conditions that are significantly different than most of us will ever experience or can even imagine. It doesn't take a congressional investigation to figure that out.

Just my 0.02.

Doug
 
Maybe they should take a lesson from Gen. Black Jack Pershing. He was the commander of troops during the Moro conflict. He got tired of the muslim terrs making "Jihad" attacks on his troops. He rounded up 50 muslims terrs and had them tied to posts for the firing squad. He had two pigs killed and had his troops dip their bullets in the pig blood and use these bullets to kill 49 of the 50 muslims. He then had the pig blood, entrails dumped on their bodies, which prevents them from meeting Allah. He turned the last mulim loose to spread the infro about what happen. There was no more "Jihad" attacks on American troops during the rest of his tour of duty.
RELH
 
Marksman,

Maybe you're right that this has to do with our hunting priviledge's. Another one to remember is when Gen. Sherman of the Union Army marched and burned his way to Atlanta. "War is Hell"
 
LAST EDITED ON May-05-04 AT 07:23AM (MST)[p]Maksmen
I do not agree with your statement that "everybody is mad about the Iraq war" The dominant liberal media has their paties in a wad over this war, and they are bottle feeding the American public what they want you to hear. But I would say the majority of Americans support the a$$ whooppin we are putting on Iraq and Afganastan. Seems to be working pretty well from where I am sitting. The terorist are running and hidding like a bunch of rats whith the lights turned on.
Look its a war. Inocent civilians are going to be killed. Yes women and children are going to be killed. Our forces are trying very hard to avoid such things. I think they are actually trying to hard to a fault. This whole thing with the Iraqi prisoners being molested is tragic to those not in war. But if a few of them must get molested in order to get information out of their terrorist mouth, I have no problem with it. That may sound harsh to some but after 911 I could care less what happens to a terrorist while he is in prison. Yes 911. Remember that?
And no they (we) are not as bad as Saddam. We are only toturing and molesting bad guys that want to kill innocent Americans. If molesting and torture keeps us safe I say get after it.
The liberal media is having a hay day with this because they HATE the fact that there is a conservative CHRISTIAN in the White House. They HATE the fact that the President of the United States is not a falanderer and a liar but a man of INTEGRITY and HONESTY and CONVICTION.
Marksmen, I do not mean to call you out. I just went off when I read your post. I apologise if I upset you. Do not take it personal.
This is just my opinion. And you know what they say. They are like B - - - H - - - s, eveyone's got one.


"We must HUNT"
 
the more i read about it, the less i care. it was only 6 soldiers and 20 prisoners. shouldn't have ever happened, for sure. but it damn sure ain't a turning point and there are a lot more important things to worry about. just some kids horseplayin'.
 
I don't really think they were that far out of line... These are the baddest of the bad from Sadams elite!!! How is striping them nekid and piling them up tourcher? Humilliation yes, but tourcher??? Freshman High school football players get it worse than that... It didn't appear that any of them were hurt. They were just screwing with thier minds to get what ever information they could out of them
 
it is whole lot worse than freshmen have it. that goes aginst their religion. they will be condenmed for the rest of their lives.
 
first of all,
who says it wasn't set up.
yes there is the greatest posibablity that the guards who did this and had the press there to film it or who ever filed it wasn't part of a crusade to get the emotional feeling of the public back on there side.
my feeling is take away the press.
the prisions our off limits.
these guys you see parading around shooting off guns in the air and climing all over our burned up vehicals.
cut them down right where they stand.
next give orders to clear out of parts of the city.
take only what you can carry adn go thru check out stations.
give thenm 2 days.
then level that sector. to the ground -90 ft.
the only game they understand is ruthles rule.
they don't understand be fair, play fair , thats not nice,
point blank.
nuke their assssses, back to glass.
as far as the gun thing, my bet is i'll be part of that rovolting squad that goes up against the goverment if it comes to that.
its the goverment that is jacking gas prices not the oil / refineries,
its just another way to help curb your mobilasation.
hellll i coukld go on and on, and most of what i would say is true.
but i do get a little carried away sometimes.
like the time in montana. hicking the back country.
thought we saw big foot. "snatch squach".
 
The problem is the ALL ACCESS media!
If the media had the access they do now,the world would be a different place! You think this stuff didn't go on in WW2?
Think how screwed JFK would have been!
 
HH, you're exactly right. It all started with too much media in Veitnam (sp?).
 
When I first saw those pictures I thought those have to be doctored. Who in their right mind, especially a woman would have their picture taken bending over smiling with a bunch of Iraqi's butts in her face?
Where was the Liberal media and Congressional investigation when those four "American's" were killed, burned, dragged through the streets whith young children dancing and yelling and then hung in disgrace from a bridge with their flesh torn off???
I didn't see a mark on those prisoners! I don't condone what those solder's did but this is war!

ELKCHSR
 
This is nothing more than the Liberals trying to politicize anything they can to make the President and His administration look bad.
Did anyone see the Liberals condeming the Iraqi's for killing our 4 Americans that were tortured and hung on the bridge?

It is very apparent that this is political.


Was that really torture that we were doing to these Iraqi's or was it interrogation? I did not see any blood or bruises on them. To me it looked like they were trying to get some information from them. When our troops are in harms way I would do the same and approve of it 100%

War is war and I'm tired of the Liberal media and all their Democratic constituency.

We should be alowed to fight this war as it should be fought.
We are fighting with one hand tied behind our back.
I say give them 48 hours to get all the civilians out of Fallujah and then level the place to the ground.

There should be no safe zones in war or time outs yet that is what our troops are faced with every day in Iraq. When our troops are attacked from a Mosque and we are not allowed to blow that place to kingdom come it only serves to strengthen these terrorists into continuing their attacks on our soldiers.

Get the Liberal media or better yet all the media out of Iraq and let our troops fight the way they want without the whole world playing arm chair quarterback.

The true enemy of the United States is the Democratic Party plain and simple.
 
YAAAA Buddy!!!!!!!!!!
Another two cents is, we are not in their situation who is to say they are wrong?
 
I thought Rummy did a great job today, and I was sorry to see him pulled away from his duties of running a war.
I think as a society we are a little week. If we showed pictures of the caskets coming home - we would not be able to handle it. Our boys are over there fighting for there lives and here we are yacking about a few stupid pics of some ragheads. I have spelled a few words wrong and if your a young English teacher I will stay after class.
 
I liked what nebraxas had to say. We all sit over here taking it easy and having a good ole time. While our troops are over there having to deal with car bombers and all that crap 24\7. We have no idea how it is. As far as the pictures I saw there was noone being hurt that I could see. Just the media trying to make the administration look bad. Nothing new.
 
When someone's been shootin at you and trying to kill you, you git a little teed off at em. Just human nature. Problem is, our guys missed one little detail.....the dang camera! They did a stupid thing and got caught (and why oh why would you want to see any man, especially middle eastern whackos, naked?). Bottom line is, whatever their reason, it was a stupid thing to do. But I also don't have any ill will about them doing it either.....

I wish the media would've embellished as much on the 4 guys that got killed, dismembered, and then hung from the bridge to start this Fajullla(whatever) battle all off. Frankly I think those Iraqui prisoners are getting off purty darn lucky. Hey, they didn't even show their face on camera so what are they complaining about?

This just teaches the guys that next time they see a Iraqui with a gun: shoot first, ask questions later. Prisoners of this level are pretty worthless.
 
I don't know if any one saw Rumsfeld on tv friday before the members of the senate. I thought he did a good job in trying to apologize for what happened and keeping the liberal dogs(Kennedy-I heard he was still wearing his Chappaquiddick life jacket, Robert-KKK-Byrd,and the Hildabeast Clinton) at bay. The sad part is that neither he nor the president will be able to apologize enough. The liberals have already started complaining that the president didn't say the right things or he didn't say them soon enough so it is a no win situation. It was good to see that there was one true American in those hearings Friday and that was Senator Jeff Sessions from Alabama. He didn't pull any punches in standing up for all of the men and women who are doing the right things. I wish there were 99 more guys like him in the Senate.

ford_boy
 
our troops are over there fighting this war with the kid gloves on, and they're seeing alot of thier friends die because of it. i'm not going to say its a good policy to abuse POW's, but i'm also not going to say that if i were there i wouldn't beat them like a rented mule either.
 
The only part of this subject that pissed me off is the part where our soldiers are getting introuble for this. If somebody was shooting at me and i finally caught him I would beat the living daylights out of him and or shoot them. Its called War, eliminating your ememies. I have no feeling for Iragi's. Do you guys not remember? These are the same guys that helped organize the plan to put two planes into the the WTC.

mp
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-04 AT 01:09PM (MST)[p]Does anybody know who the prisoners are in the pictures? From what I hear they are part of the 52 most wanted Iraqi officials originally under Saddam! Could they be trying to interrogate them to get information to save our troops? Could this be a "Democrapic" political ploy in attempt to kill Bush's popularity? I think so. This is all part of war and all the pansies that this kind of thing upsets, need to take another look at what is really going on! What do you think Iraqi's do with American prisoners? You can bet it is much more cruel than what we are doing. As far as I'm concerned, we ought to be hooking jumper cables up to the Iraqi prisoners sacks in order to get the information we need to protect not only me and you, but the freedoms we have!
 
30 inch buck that was the most stupid thing i have ever heard. No where have i heard that it said they were top wanted officials. they were soldiers capurered off of the streets while fighting. they weren't the top guys they were the middle or low class. they were of no importance. and those of you who think they should torture them. these are human beings were are talking about. i'd like to see you little sisses sit their and take the torture. They say that some of the pics are so graphic they can't show them. this includes dead iraqi soldiers being showcased. you guys are all sick if you think that is the way it should be handled.
 
Marksman,
It's funny to me how some people believe all the media hype involved with this kind of publicity stunt brought on mainly by the "Democrapic" party. I have quite a few family members and friends that are war vets. They have expressed to me several times how prisoners of war are tortured for information and it's worse than what most people think. It's basically the consequences of war. I realize that they are human beings but those same human beings are over there killing our friends,family, and fellow countrymen. Give me a break calling me stupid. Sounds to me that you're on Kerry's side here. It's really smart of you to say, "I'd like to see you little sisses sit there and take the torture." Sounds to me like you would rather see your fellow countrymen take the torture rather than the Iraqi's. Are you on their side or what? I do wish we could live in a perfect world where everyone could live in peace and these kind of things wouldn't happen. But when we are attacked on our own soil and our freedoms are challenged by others, something has to be done! The good book states an eye for an eye! On an end note, I would rather see these Iraqi's being tortured than you or any of my fellow countrymen!
 
I read that the U. S. military officials themselves are saying that over 90 % of the Iraqi prisoners were captured in error and are guilty of nothing.

President Bush said that the abusers don't represent the America he knows. I guess he doesn't know America very well. Just reading this thread proves otherwise.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-04 AT 07:03PM (MST)[p]>they were soldiers
>capurered off of the streets
>while fighting. they weren't
>the top guys they were
>the middle or low class.
> they were of no
>importance. and those of
>you who think they should
>torture them. these are
>human beings were are talking
>about. i'd like to
>see you little sisses sit
>their and take the torture.
> They say that some
>of the pics are so
>graphic they can't show them.
> this includes dead iraqi
>soldiers being showcased. you
>guys are all sick if
>you think that is the
>way it should be handled.
>

Hey Marksman, you win! IMHO you just moved into 1st place for stupid comments of late. "They were just guys captured off the streets while fighting" and "they were of no importance" being the top two...
It would've been better had we should've just shot em dead instead of capturing them as prisoners. Would that work for you? My God, have you forgotten the torture of 9-11? Or of the guys dismembered and hanging from a bridge? Or any of the pictures of our POWS who were BEATEN to a pulp and their faces televised? As far as "torture" goes....Lemme tell ya one thing....we don't even have a CLUE on how to correctly apply torture. Many of these prisoners very, very likely have American blood on their hands ("they were captured off the streets while fighting"). Putting a hood over their head or putting them in a big pile naked is "torture"? Hardly! Pulling off one of their legs, maybe that would qualify. Nah, these M.P.s were just funnin with these MORONS while at the same time their coharts were shelling the prison. These creeps should thank their little Allahs for still being able to even take a breath. OBTW, War is hell. You take up arms against someone, there are surely risks and consequences involved. Capture and interrogation and treatment by a foreign enemy included....no matter which side you're on.

Maybe the lesson learned here is a simple one...take no prisoners.

On the most serious side, this is the time when we all, Republicans and Democraps, Peace loving Christians, Jews and Muslims need to pull together. You've heard this before and never has it ringed so true; You're either with us or you're with the terrorists. It's that simple. So which is it for you? Best do a little soul searching and realize war is hell......
 
Here's some disturbing news read this. When I read this I became teary eyed. What a sad deal.

Killers: Beheading Avenges Prison Abuse
38 minutes ago
By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A video posted Tuesday on an al-Qaida-linked Web site showed the beheading of an American civilian in Iraq (news - web sites) and said the execution was carried out to avenge abuses of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison.
AP Photo
Reuters
Slideshow: Video Shows Beheading of American in Iraq
Video Shows Beheading of American in Iraq
(AP Video)
Latest headlines:
? Beheaded Man's Kin in Pa. Learns of Video
AP - 6 minutes ago
? Widow of Italian slain in Iraq says he witnessed prisoner abuse
AFP - 14 minutes ago
? Lawyer: Soldier Was Smiling but Unhappy
AP - 22 minutes ago
Special Coverage
In a grisly gesture, the executioners held up the man's head for the camera.
The American identified himself on the video as Nick Berg, a 26-year-old Philadelphia native. His body was found near a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday, the same day he was beheaded, a U.S. official said.
The video bore the title "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American." It was unclear whether al-Zarqawi - an associate of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) believed behind the wave of suicide bombings in Iraq - was shown in the video or simply ordered the execution. Al-Zarqawi also is sought in the assassination of a U.S. diplomat in Jordan in 2002.
The Bush administration said those who beheaded Berg would be hunted down and brought to justice.
"Our thoughts and prayers are with his family," White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said. "It shows the true nature of the enemies of freedom. They have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women and children."
Berg was a small-business owner who went to Iraq as an independent businessman to help rebuild communication antennas, his family said Tuesday. Friends and family said he was a "free spirit" who wanted to help others - working in Ghana, in one example - and that his going to Iraq fit with that ideology. They said he supported the Iraqi war and the Bush administration.
U.S. officials had feared the shocking photographs of U.S. soldiers abusing and humiliating Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison west of Baghdad would endanger the lives of American troops and civilians.
Also, Berg's killing happened amid a climate of anti-Western sentiment, which flared in Iraq after last month's crackdown on Shiite extremists and the three-week Marine siege of Fallujah west of Baghdad. Anger at the United States swelled with the publication of the Abu Ghraib photographs, which continue to stir rage throughout the Arab world.
In the video, five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks stood over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit similar to prison uniforms.
"My name is Nick Berg. My father's name is Michael. My mother's name is Suzanne," the man, seated in a chair, said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sara. I live in ... Philadelphia."
The video then cut to Berg sitting on the floor, his hands tied behind his back, as a statement was read in Arabic. Berg sat still during the statement, facing the camera, occasionally raising his shoulders.
After the statement was finished, the men pulled Berg on his side and thrust a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, repeatedly shouting "Allahu Akbar!" - or "God is great."
They then held the head out before the camera.
The Bergs, who live the Philadelphia suburb of West Chester, Pa., last heard from their son April 9, the same day insurgents attacked a U.S. convoy west of the capital.
Berg attended Cornell, Drexel, the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Oklahoma, where he got involved in rigging electronics equipment while working for the maintenance department, his father said. He helped set up equipment at the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia in 2000.
While at Cornell, he traveled to Ghana to teach villagers how to make bricks out of minimal material. His father said Berg returned from Ghana emaciated because he gave away most of his food and that the only possessions he had when he returned were the clothes on his back.
Michael Berg said his son saw his trip to Iraq as an adventure that also fit with his desire to help others.
"I would say he was a free spirit, very intelligent," said Nick Fillioe, a sports director at the West Chester YMCA. "He was a real smart guy. He knew a little bit about everything."
Berg's family said they were informed by the State Department on Monday that he was found dead.
When told about the Web site, Berg's father, brother and sister grasped one another and slowly dropped to the ground in their front yard, where they wept quietly while holding each other.
"I knew he was decapitated before," Michael Berg said. "That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public."
The decapitation recalled the kidnapping and videotaped beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in 2002 in Pakistan. Four Islamic militants have been convicted of kidnapping Pearl, but seven suspects - including those who allegedly slit his throat - remain at large.
Last month, Iraqi militants videotaped the killing of Italian hostage Fabrizio Quattrocchi, but the Arab TV network Al-Jazeera refused to air it because it was too graphic.
In the video of Berg, the executioners said they had tried to trade him for prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," one of the men read from a statement.
"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."
Seven soldiers from the 372nd Military Police Company face charges in the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in a scandal that has sparked worldwide outrage. One of those soldiers faces a court-martial in Baghdad next week, the first to go to trial.
The American administrator of Iraq, L. Paul Bremer, said Tuesday that the soldiers accused of abuses would be brought to justice.
"I find the behavior of these American soldiers completely unacceptable and outrageous," Bremer told Associated Press Television News. "I share the outrage of the Iraqi people and the people of the world as to what these guys did."
April 9, when Berg last made contact with his family, also was the day that seven American contractors working for a subsidiary of Halliburton Corp. and two military men disappeared after their supply convoy was attacked on the outskirts of Baghdad.
Four of the Halliburton workers and one of the military men have since been confirmed dead. Halliburton worker Thomas Hamill escaped his captors May 2 and returned home to Mississippi on Saturday. The two other Halliburton workers and the other soldier remain missing.
Two soldiers also vanished April 9. One was later found dead and the other, Pfc. Keith M. Maupin of Batavia, Ohio, was taken captive and remains missing.

This is ok right? or taking 4 of our soldiers and brutally mutalating them and hanging them from the bridge right? Just talked with a colleague of mine who served in Vietnam and he stated that the only way to handle these radicals is to make them fear their biggest fear. The answer is PIGS! We need to take a bunch of pigs over there and bury them in pig guts and show that on video. He said he read an article about a General that did that years ago and there was 40 years of peace. I'll have to get the article from him and post it. From what I know of their beliefs pigs are dirty and being buried with them means HE double hockey stick instead of being with 21 beautiful virgins. Just some thoughts
 
I second the motion for stupid comments of late "they were just guys captured off the street while fighting" why capture, why not just kill em were the stand, the pow's should feel lucky.

I dont now I am not over there, but I hate to see our troops standing around wondering who has got a bomb under their coat and who is going to die. I say, kill em all or get the hell out of there. DO SOMETHING more U.S soldiers died last month than the whole war combined since it started.
 
just wondering if anybody been watching the news? Did anyone here the reason for the beheading of the american prisoner? it was in retaliation for the torure iraqis recieved. In the long run stupid actions from stupid people costs everybody.
 
Marksman,
Are you really that naive? Do you really think that is the real reason for the beheading or did they just want the media to portray that to be the reason to employ the normal scare tactics? These radicals are unpredictable and it seems the it's ok for them to kill and mutilate our soldiers and behead a civilian and I repeat civilian! And our soldiers make the mistake of getting caught doing very little on film and it's blown right out of proportion. If the truth be known (which none of us here really know what that actually is)the soldiers were probably ordered by superiors to interrogate the prisoners. My understanding is the CIA is actually involved here too. Who's going to take the fall? The lowly soldiers that were just in my book performing their duty. The only mistake these soldiers made was getting caught on film. That is the only stupid thing they did. The real stupid ones are the media that filmed it and released it. I would hate to be one of those chicken @@#$ media guys that released it. I know if I was it would be really hard to live with what I had done. If you only knew what really goes on behind closed doors. At least we're not taking human life and using scare tactics. Maybe it's time we start though. I say bring on the pigs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON May-12-04 AT 00:31AM (MST)[p]Although this has nothing to do with our mutual passion for muley hunting, I think this is an important subject in which every American needs to be aligned on.

Any and every stinking person who CHOOSES to take up arms against other people, those brave soldiers who are doing their best to defend civilians and keep the peace, are terrorists. They are wanna be murderers of both peace and freedom. I don't care if it's an Iraqui, a Syrian, an Afghan or a Jamacian. What's important to understand is that when someone that chooses that path, they must be dealt with in the most serious way possible. In other words, if they have taken up arms against peace, order and freedom, they should be eliminated. They can choose peace or death, it's their choice. And we should oblige them whenever possible, not put them in a prison. We are NOT the bad guys and I hate it when I hear pompous idiots like Ted Kennedy saying otherwise, as he did yesterday.

If we haven't learned ANYTHING but one thing since 9-11, we've certainly learned that the only thing terrorists respect is power and brute force. These are the elements that we must employ to deal with them, nothing less. It's a shame that those pictures and videos got out, and those MPs should be dealt with accordingly. But lets not forget that every terrorist out there wants nothing less than to see us all dead. This isn't business as usual.........
 
freedriver i'll agree with you on one point. Ted kennedy kills a young woman in a drunken wreck. And then talks about torture and how that is wrong. well i wonder what he thinks leaving an injured girl that he just hurt in a car all night to die.
 
It sickens me that anyone would try to justify the beheading of an American. The people that did that are terrorist and need to be dealt with accordingly. It seems to me that the arabic people just look for reasons to hate Americans, how many times do they declare their jihad or holy war on us. I think our country treats all of these people with the utmost respect, yes there are a few people in our country that might have done something wrong every now and then, but torture and execution are not the same. I think we also hold our troops to a higher standard than anybody else and that is why the few involved will be court martialed. After saying all that I think all our bullets should be dipped in pigs blood. I also think that a crop duster spraying pigs blood over fallujah might make some people shut up about how they will die for allah and jihad.
I am just pissed about them beheading an American civilian and then talking to other arabs who said they would do the same thing if they caught one of us.
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, AND GOD BLESS AMERICA
Keith Gaines
 
Since I taught Scott Helvenston, One of the four who were killed and hung from the bridge, in the 8th grade,and know his mother, I might not be as rational as I should be, but these are my thoughts:
I agree with about everything that has been said above.

We are NEVER going to win over the terrorists to our way of thinking!! Their thought processes are different due to their training from an early age.They respect only someone who is more powerful than themselves. Therefore, we might as well get on with it, and use our power to crush them mercilesly. If innocents get in the way, I'm truly sorry, but the fact remains they have to be eleminated. I don't recall anyone worrying about innocents before the first gulf war.

The "abuse" of Iraqi prisoners, if used as a tactic for interrogation, while repulsive to me personally, cannot be ruled out if it helps save American lives and ends this conflict earlier. The Iraqi citizens wanting peace would probably do much worse to the prisoners if they got their hands on them.

If the beheading of the young American was in retaliation for the prisoner abuse,(what excuse did they have for Scott and the others?) then we have Dan Rather and the rest of the media, as well as the vultures in congress to be held responsible for his death. As I understand it, The military was conducting several investigations on the matter. They could have handled it quietly and avoided the outfall. Instead, politics will kill many more allied soldiers before it's over.
Finally,Neil Bortz said today on his radio show, that according to the Geneva Convention, any combatent not in uniform can summiarly be shot on the spot! Sounds like a good idea to me! No prisoners, no abuse of prisoners, and soon, no one left to kill Americans! Unfortunatly, we are too civilized for this, and as I said earlier, the terrorists are not impressed by civilized people, only those who are more powerful then themselves!!
 
I really don't want to get into this, but these terrorists really do see our civility and good will as nothing more than a weakness. Something that they can use against us and something that makes their gruesome actions more affective as terror.

As for innocent civilians, well like its been said, war sucks. The innocent civilians should make every effort the get the heck out of the way. If they are in the way, who is to say they are not just an un-uniformed combatant. Even a defensemen still plays for the other team and wants to see you lose.

Well I should go on and attempt to fortify the above comments, but I really don't feel like expending the neural energy.
 
I think I'd wish any one of you guys could be our policy maker for our actions in Iraq.

I also heard some great comments on a radio talk show this afternoon, similar to the two posts above. One other interesting question was asked, that being "what do you think our founding fathers would do if this was happening on their watch? Try to find a diplomatic solution? Nope, they'd simply turn the place into a parking lot."

In seeing so many newsclips over that past couple years of these people in the middle east, to me, they always seem to be either celebrating some holiday or out in the streets protesting or taking up arms. People in most nations are busy doing something constructive (like work for a living and make a product or provide a service for others), but I have yet to see anything stamped on the bottom or inside a shirt lapel as "Made in Iraq" (other than maybe a 55 gallon oil drum, which they likely outsource anyway and then just fill em up). Sure makes me think how true the saying is "idle hands are the devils workshop".
 
I heard Ted Kennedy drubbing Rumsfield this morning for going to Baghdad now: he should have gone in January. If Rumsfield DIDN'T go to Baghdad now, I suppose Kennedy would be drubbing him for not going now. Of course, it is the nature of politicians of both parties to try to make hay of the difficulties that befall their opponents. It is our responsibility as citizens not to be fooled by this trick.

It seems strange to me that we need to follow rules and procedures -- the Geneva Convention -- when our opponents are not even uniformed. As someone pointed out, the Geneva Convention permits summary execution of combattants out of uniform. If the abuse of prisoners gets results, it seems to me that maybe what we have heard about shouldn't be out of bounds. The stipping naked, piling naked bodies together, dressed soldiers mocking naked prisoners, hooded prisoners, making male prisoners parade around in women's underwear -- this is kind of light when if comes down to it. Siccing attack dogs on naked prisoners may be pushing it too far. And I don't know what other abuses have been committed which I don't know about and didn't catalogue above.

The one matter which I think ought to be paid more attention to than thus far is the supposed rate of false arrest. Apply the above catalogued abuses to bonafide al queda members or other insurgents who are killing americans AND IRAQIS and I can live with the abuses. But I have heard that there are some estimates that 70% to 90% of the people we detain are innocent, and presumably these people are subject to these abuses too. I think we ought to be sure the people who are abused are not innocent -- and 70% to 90% false arrest rate isn't sure enough. I'm not advocating reading rights to all the people they arrest and providing them a lawyer if they cannot afford their own, and all that stuff, but damn! 70% to 90% false arrest, that means any prisoner selected at random is highly likely to be a law abiding, decent Iraqi who we are now in the process of converting into a committed enemy. You arrest my innocent son and degrade him in the ways depicted in those pictures and I'm going to be your enemy. We need to base our arrests on something.
 
We do base arrests on "something". Carrying firearms in a city of civilians has been the biggest reason for arresting the majority of these terrorists, or so I've read. "What was that sir? You're in civilian clothes and carrying a firearm in a war zone. Oh, OK.......you were just on your way to the local firing range........Right. Please come with me".

IMHO, these are the folks they should shoot on sight. Just because they're not caught in the act of shooting their weapon just amazes me that we would take them prisoner. Their big hero Saddam wouldn't have treated them so kindly.....
 
>We do base arrests on "something".
>Carrying firearms in a city
>of civilians has been the
>biggest reason for arresting the
>majority of these terrorists, or
>so I've read.

I was thinking, only for a brief moment, the other day about going to Iraq and trying to make money some way, somehow. It is a circumstance where people who know how to do things might be able to make good money. It occurred to me, however, that I wouldn't even consider moving around in Iraq without a weapon. Would you want to drive around Iraq, day or night, without a weapon? If you were an Iraqi do you think you would be safe driving around without a weapon?

It seems pretty plausible to me that many people carrying guns in Iraq just want to protect themselves.

Getting back to my original point. It has been said that 70% to 90% of the prisoners are falsely arrested. IF carrying a weapon is a criteria for proper arrest/detainment, then those people who are detained for carrying weapons are NOT falsely arrested. I don't know if that 70% or 90% figure is correct. If the figures are wrong, good and well. HOWEVER . . . if indeed 70% to 90% of detainees are falsely arrested -- define "falsely arrested" properly, whatever that may be -- this is a big problem.
 
When i First heard about the abusing of the prisoners i was pretty fired up at the american soldiers who did this. But im glad i took the time to read all that you guys have had to say cause i have totally changed my look on this 180 degrees. Thanks alot guys for all your opinions and thoughts i enjoyed reading them.
MULEDAWG
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom