Just curious to see what some of you think about all the idle gas and oil drilling rigs out there? according to the Baker Hughes rig counts there are 232 fewer drill rigs active now than at this time than last year in the US, I know there was a lot of talk about how we need to drill more and here we are drilling less. By the time the next energy crisis hits it will be too late to affect things by firing up the rigs, what a shame, but thats the way it works
active drill rigs down 232
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huntindude
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My buddy works on the north slope, he says they're shutting all but the best wells down and new drilling is down to almost nothing. he was supposed to hire another 50 guys for the crew the first of the year and they cut that back to replacements only.
drill baby drill, yeah right, when this breaks and oil goes up we'll hear the excact same crap we did a year ago.
drill baby drill, yeah right, when this breaks and oil goes up we'll hear the excact same crap we did a year ago.
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sneekiest_sneeker
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-09 AT 07:05PM (MST)[p]What do you think about them trying to stop the sale of new leases in Utah? I personally thinks its bs. We can directional drill and get whats there with very little impact. All the technology we have now with directional drilling, pad wells and emissions equipment, Reclamation practices, There should be no reason not to keep going and keep prices where people can afford to live and enjoy themselves.
Thats true the impact is far less than it used to be, but there is still some impact and we should still try to drill the least sensitive places first. The point is we are at the mercy of the market and the big multi-national oil companys, they aren't drilling now because of low prices
NeMont
Long Time Member
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This is why there will be another energy crisis. These low crude prices only serve to ensure that no new source are developed, no new alternative source are perfected and the infrastructure will not me updated.
Oil companies are demonized when they make money but are also expected to spend billions on new production even in a down market. I don't know what people expect.
I think this is a great time to grab oil stocks and even oil itself because the underlying fundementals remain strong. Oil is a great hedge against the soon worthless dollar.
Nemont
Oil companies are demonized when they make money but are also expected to spend billions on new production even in a down market. I don't know what people expect.
I think this is a great time to grab oil stocks and even oil itself because the underlying fundementals remain strong. Oil is a great hedge against the soon worthless dollar.
Nemont
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huntindude
Guest
Can someone anwer this, why is natural gas, telephones, electricity, sugar, rice, spearmint oil, tobacco and I'm sure a million other things federally regulated but Oil is 100% free market?
What makes oil the one thing we must have that the feds stay hands off?
What makes oil the one thing we must have that the feds stay hands off?
cmiddleton
Very Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-09 AT 04:55PM (MST)[p] if you look back when bush OK ed off shore drilling the price of oil plummeted. speculators bailed out of the market thinking this will give us plenty of oil causing the price to come down.
they all tried to be the first investor out that's how the price came down.
now by stopping off shore drilling the price might rebound.
we could be a broke nation paying 4 bucks a gallon by the summer.
speculators had a big hand in these problems too.
oil companies don't want to drill cause it isn't profitable
we are standing on a double edged sword
we as the consumer are dambed either way
speculaters lost in all other investments and oil keeps their money oversea to avoid taxes
i'm pulling out to stop the bleeding i don't trust the banks,government or wall street. thivin bastiges i'm sick of roller coaster rides.
they all tried to be the first investor out that's how the price came down.
now by stopping off shore drilling the price might rebound.
we could be a broke nation paying 4 bucks a gallon by the summer.
speculators had a big hand in these problems too.
oil companies don't want to drill cause it isn't profitable
we are standing on a double edged sword
we as the consumer are dambed either way
speculaters lost in all other investments and oil keeps their money oversea to avoid taxes
i'm pulling out to stop the bleeding i don't trust the banks,government or wall street. thivin bastiges i'm sick of roller coaster rides.
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TFinalshot
Guest
as far as I can tell, oil is not 100% free market unless you call OPEC, and Palin free market. . . alaska has it's own oil laws, that's how Palin made such a splash. She upped the royalties on the oil in AK in order to transfer more wealth from the rich oil companies to the "poor" alaskens. Palin's government stepped in as the big brother and now that the royalties are higher, and the price is relatively low, oil companies are having a hard time with helping Palin's government make the income transfer from the rich oil barrens to the poor people. . . Did someone say, "socialism?"
How is it that oil is 100% free market?
Tony
How is it that oil is 100% free market?
Tony
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huntindude
Guest
I wonder how popular she's going to be if the money she spent doesn't come in as expected?
Oil prices and roayalties vary but the feds don't set the wholesale price like other commodities, natuaral gas, electricity ect are regulated and the price is set or changes must be approved by the feds. oil is a free traded commodity, even wheat and corn have up and down limits per day of 60 cents a bushel. oil can change $150 an hour if it wants to, if oil had oversight it would never have been run up by traders as it was. I'm just not clear on why oil is a sacred cash cow and everything else needs control.
Oil prices and roayalties vary but the feds don't set the wholesale price like other commodities, natuaral gas, electricity ect are regulated and the price is set or changes must be approved by the feds. oil is a free traded commodity, even wheat and corn have up and down limits per day of 60 cents a bushel. oil can change $150 an hour if it wants to, if oil had oversight it would never have been run up by traders as it was. I'm just not clear on why oil is a sacred cash cow and everything else needs control.
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TFinalshot
Guest
she will remain popular with the recipients of the welfare checks, because the payments per unit are still up. However, demand and production are down, so overall payments might be less. producers are also feeling more of the pain because they it costs more to produce oil and please the share holders. More taxes, more taxes, more taxes on the rich wealthy oil companies. . . I know, it's a royalty, but it's a cost, and it's welfare when compared to the rest of the nation, hell without the reset of the nation, there would be no oil left in alaska it would have all been pumped by now. . .
I'm not sure why oil is not more regulated, but I know this, it's far more inelastic than any of the other commodities so maybe people thought it was insulated from the swings. . . Times have changed, maybe the way oil is traded/sold should too. .
I'm not sure why oil is not more regulated, but I know this, it's far more inelastic than any of the other commodities so maybe people thought it was insulated from the swings. . . Times have changed, maybe the way oil is traded/sold should too. .
I challenge the statement that these things are federally regulated. At least in Texas, the price of electricity is NOT federally regulated. That leads me to believe that what regulations may be in place may be state regulations and not federal regulations. Ditto with respect to natural gas. I think natural gas used to be federally regulated for "shallow" wells and deregulated for "deep" wells. Now I'm not sure either sources of natural gas are regulated. Can any energy experts on this board confirm or deny?
Are you sure oil doesn't have up/down daily limits? Alternatively, maybe the oil commodities market isn't established or dominated by the US oil commodities market?
But back to the main thread . . . yah, rig counts are going to go down when oil drops from ~ $140/barrel to less than ~ $33/barrel. That's a no brainer. Before we rush into an intense era of federal regulation of energy, however, I would hope we would be mindful of history. Federal regulations limited the prices for natural gas in the Carter era. No drilling was done at this low price, and gas stocks were short. "Deep" natural gas (I think below 15,000 feet) was deregulated about 1979. A drilling boom ensued. MUCH natural gas was discovered. A natural gas surplus occured. Drilling crashed. Many companies folded including Penn Square bank in Oklahoma City and I think maybe Continental Bank in Chicago pulled down by their underwriting of Penn Square bank. All of that was, one way or the other, the result of regulation. It has to be done with judgment and discrimination and with a view to unintended consequences.
Are you sure oil doesn't have up/down daily limits? Alternatively, maybe the oil commodities market isn't established or dominated by the US oil commodities market?
But back to the main thread . . . yah, rig counts are going to go down when oil drops from ~ $140/barrel to less than ~ $33/barrel. That's a no brainer. Before we rush into an intense era of federal regulation of energy, however, I would hope we would be mindful of history. Federal regulations limited the prices for natural gas in the Carter era. No drilling was done at this low price, and gas stocks were short. "Deep" natural gas (I think below 15,000 feet) was deregulated about 1979. A drilling boom ensued. MUCH natural gas was discovered. A natural gas surplus occured. Drilling crashed. Many companies folded including Penn Square bank in Oklahoma City and I think maybe Continental Bank in Chicago pulled down by their underwriting of Penn Square bank. All of that was, one way or the other, the result of regulation. It has to be done with judgment and discrimination and with a view to unintended consequences.
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30inchbuck
Guest
The hedge fund guys is really behind this. When oil prices keep going up and up there was excess buying. However in September with the market downturn. The contracts for the oil could not be resold and delivery on those must be meet they then had to sell at a lower price but there where no place to put it. A big surplus of oil on the market and the price has been falling sense.
The are many other factors the Oil & Gas companies are facing right now. When is was going crazy the contractors, drillers, ect keep raising prices because of fuel prices, now that fuel prices are down. Contractor & Rig rates are on there way down to. Winter time in the Rockies are always a downturn in drilling. Several places in winter range areas do not allow drilling from november till March. NM pit rules came into effect and there is still some questions about how to meet this Bull Crap requirement. NM is down more than anywhere else because of the pit rule.
Oil & Gas has always had these big swings from record profits to net losses - yet people complain on those record profit years. Most O&G companies know the swings and can keep going through the net losses years by cutting back. Is that not what everyone is doing? Cutting back.
I would say that when the Exxons, COP, BP report incomes in the 2nd Qtr this year it will be a new loss. Good thing they had record profits last year otherwise they would be asking for a bailout as well.
Market is adjusting. Prices are adjusting. Once the new level is established it will crank back up.
The are many other factors the Oil & Gas companies are facing right now. When is was going crazy the contractors, drillers, ect keep raising prices because of fuel prices, now that fuel prices are down. Contractor & Rig rates are on there way down to. Winter time in the Rockies are always a downturn in drilling. Several places in winter range areas do not allow drilling from november till March. NM pit rules came into effect and there is still some questions about how to meet this Bull Crap requirement. NM is down more than anywhere else because of the pit rule.
Oil & Gas has always had these big swings from record profits to net losses - yet people complain on those record profit years. Most O&G companies know the swings and can keep going through the net losses years by cutting back. Is that not what everyone is doing? Cutting back.
I would say that when the Exxons, COP, BP report incomes in the 2nd Qtr this year it will be a new loss. Good thing they had record profits last year otherwise they would be asking for a bailout as well.
Market is adjusting. Prices are adjusting. Once the new level is established it will crank back up.
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bwnco
Guest
Yep good answer 30in...... oil commodity like anything else, demand vs supply.
Plus get the greenies in on the new regulations when prices are allready dropping and its gonna turn companies away and go to where easier to drill.
Ditto on rig count in winter. Only place that has been steady is bakken area.
FYI guys. Clinton closed a huge bunch of potential oil fields in Utah area when he signed that bill and created "The canyons of the ancients" over here, or whatever its called. Another tree hugging bill that stops development by the dems.. We are the only developed country not going after our own resources. We can do it, environmental sound these days and very low impact..
Plus get the greenies in on the new regulations when prices are allready dropping and its gonna turn companies away and go to where easier to drill.
Ditto on rig count in winter. Only place that has been steady is bakken area.
FYI guys. Clinton closed a huge bunch of potential oil fields in Utah area when he signed that bill and created "The canyons of the ancients" over here, or whatever its called. Another tree hugging bill that stops development by the dems.. We are the only developed country not going after our own resources. We can do it, environmental sound these days and very low impact..
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huntindude
Guest
Electricity in the northwest is regulated, maybe it's because of the hydro projects being fed projects I'm not sure but I'll bet if you dig into it electricity in all areas has fed oversight of some kind. maybe not but I' bet it does.
Oil more of a world commodity and that's the ONLY difference I can see, but much of our natural gas comes from Canada and it's regulated. oil is controlled by the government in most nations, maybe Canada I'm not sure? I know wheat is. the point is oil is treated different, I'm not sure if some form of regulation would help or not but we see a pretty stable electric and gas market so one has to wonder if leaving it all up to the traders is always the best. before you say government is always the problem not the solution look at where we are finacially today, less regulation and oversight really paid off their didn't it.
I'm not asking for bigger government, I just think given what's happening we need to decide where we screwed up and see if we can do better.
Oil more of a world commodity and that's the ONLY difference I can see, but much of our natural gas comes from Canada and it's regulated. oil is controlled by the government in most nations, maybe Canada I'm not sure? I know wheat is. the point is oil is treated different, I'm not sure if some form of regulation would help or not but we see a pretty stable electric and gas market so one has to wonder if leaving it all up to the traders is always the best. before you say government is always the problem not the solution look at where we are finacially today, less regulation and oversight really paid off their didn't it.
I'm not asking for bigger government, I just think given what's happening we need to decide where we screwed up and see if we can do better.
Regulation has its place. But, as said above, it needs to be conducted with judiciousness and with a decent consideration for unintended consequences. Just as a slight diversion -- Texas USED to have regulated electricity and the prices were very low. The electricity was deregulated on the theory that competition would keep prices low. In fact, deregulation has dramatically increased the cost of electricity in Texas, well above what comperable other states pay for their electricity, such as Oklahoma. For whatever reason, deregulated electricity in Texas has been a bad thing for citizens of Texas. I won't pretend to understand the causes and underlying reasons for this, but I'm going to fight any argument that there are special causes and reasons in play here that make it necessary for electricity prices to go up like that.
We seem to have a problem with regulating things in this country. Maybe it is because regulations are established by some posturing politician with little actual insight into the details of the situation he is trying to regulate and who is really only interested in scoring debating points. I don't know. We have a long history of bad regulations, however, which makes people generally averse to regulation and gives regulation a bad reputation.
We seem to have a problem with regulating things in this country. Maybe it is because regulations are established by some posturing politician with little actual insight into the details of the situation he is trying to regulate and who is really only interested in scoring debating points. I don't know. We have a long history of bad regulations, however, which makes people generally averse to regulation and gives regulation a bad reputation.
NeMont
Long Time Member
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Yep it is the evil oil companies. Don't worry Obama is going to stimulate the economy so more people demand more energy and the price of that energy will go back up. That will be the evil oil companies fault also. It is never the politicians.
We don't have enough oil to worry about reglating it. Unless you think the rest of the world is going to abide by our regulation.
Nemont
We don't have enough oil to worry about reglating it. Unless you think the rest of the world is going to abide by our regulation.
Nemont
eelgrass
Long Time Member
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Gas prices are creeping back up in our little corner of CA. $2.40 now and I suspect $3.00 by summer.
Americans attitude on gas prices is like the guy who eats a big breakfast. He's full so he throws out all the food in his refer. Worry about it later when he gets hungry.
Americans attitude on gas prices is like the guy who eats a big breakfast. He's full so he throws out all the food in his refer. Worry about it later when he gets hungry.
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proutdoors
Guest
"We don't have enough oil to worry about reglating it. Unless you think the rest of the world is going to abide by our regulation."
There's your answer dude! Not exactly complicated is it?
PRO
Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
There's your answer dude! Not exactly complicated is it?
PRO
Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
