AF Bear attack: who do you side with?

dryflyelk

dryflyelk

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LAST EDITED ON May-04-11 AT 02:34PM (MST)[p]So the family of the child who was killed by a bear won 1.9 million settlement today. The judge says the forest service is 65% at fault, the state DWR is 25% at fault, and the family is 10% at fault.

Agree or disagree? Should the forest service have done more? Should the DWR have done more? Is it the dad's fault? Or is nobody at fault?
 
Well... My knee-jerk reaction would be to say "welcome to nature bro".

However, everyone knew we had a problem bear in the canyon, even within 12 hours the bear was causing grief! I say the FS should have done more to post, warn, educate because of the IMMEDIATE problem.

On a side note, I saw that bear (at least I beleive it was). I was in my cabin with my wife and it tested 3 windows to get in! I was armed with a 12 ga 4 buck load if he would have made a bit more progress.

I actually had just returned from 10 days in Id with my oldest daughter on a succussful spot and stalk bear hunt! I was in the bear killin' mode! Maybe I should have done it and saved everyone a bunch of heart-ache.

Just my 2 cents,
Zeke
 
Information is a wonderful thing to have. If a bear attack happened in the area ,it would have been nice to know. Then the people envolved could have made there own decision.
It a terrible thing to loose a loved one like that. I feel for the family. All of the money in the world can't bring back there son. A horrible Accident .
 
I think that there should have been more effort to inform the public of the immediate danger. There are a lot more bears on the Wasatch Front than people realize. So for one to become a specific problem in that camp ground means that the local authorities should have done more.

I know if I were the local biologist and camp ground director I would feel horrible about this family's loss. This experience is the obvious exception, it is not often that a problem bear happens here in Utah, so there should have been more effort to inform people of this unique situation.

Had there been signs up regarding a trouble bear in the area, then the family would be at fault for disregarding those signs.

Just my opinion.
 
I disagree 100%.

ITS NATURE for HE!! SAKES!

BY the way, information given (if I remember right) said that the parents were drunk. They had been drinking or were under the influence at the time of the attack and they were in a seperate tent right next to the sons tent that was clear full of candy and food.

I know its sad, and I do feel bad, but where do we draw the line at blaming others for our problems that happen???
 
>I disagree 100%.
>
>ITS NATURE for HE!! SAKES!
>
>BY the way, information given (if
>I remember right) said that
>the parents were drunk.
>They had been drinking or
>were under the influence at
>the time of the attack
>and they were in a
>seperate tent right next to
>the sons tent that was
>clear full of candy and
>food.
>
>I know its sad, and I
>do feel bad, but where
>do we draw the line
>at blaming others for our
>problems that happen???

+100
 
Sad story for sure but that's nature in the rawest fashion. Where will this end? We have oceans full of nasty criters that would love to eat you, states buzzing with bugs starving for blood while carrying west nile, forest with deadly mushrooms, and snakes and other poisonous creatures surrounding us. This is part of the hazards of nature. Is our government responsible for our well being with every aspect? My answer is no...

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."
 
I have mixed feeling about this. My wife gets mad at me every time they say something about it on the news. Yes, it is a sad situation. but...

KSL reported: "The ruling says the Forest Service "breached its duties" by not warning the public and found the agency to be 65 percent at fault. The judge assigned 25 percent of the blame to the Division of Wildlife Resources for failing to communicate with the Forest Service, and 10 percent of the fault to the boy's family for leaving food out in bear country ? specifically a granola wrapper and a Coke Zero can."

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=15400295

I would like to know how the FS is 65% responsible when there are signs about bears country everywhere. The family has no excuse in my opinion to not know they were in bear country, the place they picked to camp was at the trail head to Bear Canyon. If you ask me, is should be more like the family is 65% responsible and the FS 10%.

They were not in a campground. The area they were camped in is a popular place to camp, but it is just a pullout off the Timpanooke Road. It is also the trail head to Bear Canyon, which takes you down to Mutual Dell.

The area they were camped in is referred to as "Primitive Camping" wouldn't that imply that you are camping at your own risk? Maybe that is just me.

Would you be more careful if a bear sighting had been reported? Sure. But just because there was not additional warnings is not an excuse to not expect to see a bear or any other animal in their natural habitat. Plus this was all on a Sunday right? It's hard enough to get a govt agency to respond during the week, let alone on the weekend.

We don't receive warnings that deer or elk sightings have been reported, or that squirrels and chipmunks have been taking peoples lunches in the picnic areas.

They broke the biggest rule, don't have food in the tent. The mother said she educated her children about bear safety, but it still happened. In one of the news reports the first responders said they could smell alcohol on the mother's breath, could that have impaired her judgement to double check that her children didn't have any snacks in the tent with them? Possibly. Point is they are and should be held responsible for their behavior. It is a tragedy that it resulted in the death of their boy, but blaming it on someone else is not going to bring him back.
 
+100

Yes, it was very tragic. I feel badly for the boy - and his family and friends.

HOWEVER...

Who could EVER take on the responsibility for other people of where wild bears are and what their attitude might be in order to ensure their total safety?

Could my family sue some meteorologists for not letting me know that lightning had recently struck high on a mountain top where I hunt, and that it might strike again - if I were to get hit and killed by it? Sure hope not.

Could my family sue some geologists for not informing me that certain rock structures that had recently taken on a lot of moisture or change in temperature might be more unstable than normal - if I were to fall to my death while hiking/climbing? Sure hope not.

How about being bitten by a rattler and killed? becoming the next kill of a pack of non-indigenous wolves? (had to throw that one in there)

Grumble grumble grumble...judicial system and its ravenous, relentlessly money grabbing lawyers.. AND its judges who are TOO POWERFUL.
 
>I disagree 100%.
>
>ITS NATURE for HE!! SAKES!
>
>BY the way, information given (if
>I remember right) said that
>the parents were drunk.
>They had been drinking or
>were under the influence at
>the time of the attack
>and they were in a
>seperate tent right next to
>the sons tent that was
>clear full of candy and
>food.
>
>I know its sad, and I
>do feel bad, but where
>do we draw the line
>at blaming others for our
>problems that happen???


that is a heck of a speculation if you do not remember right.i never heard that the parents were drunk.all in all it was a tragedy a young man taken from the world way to early.
 
The news reports from the first responders said they could smell alcohol on the Mother's breath.

"When they responded, they said (the boy's mother) had a strong odor of alcohol," the attorney for Ives' family

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=14331361

The attorney for the family said that it was irrelevant. To me, it was definately not irrelevant. As I said above, she claims to have taught her son about bear safety, but could the consumption of alcohol have affected her judgement to check and double check that there was no food in the tent? I would like to know if that fact was argued in court.
 
I side with the bear as well. When ever you step into the woods you accept risk. The forest isnt a Mcdonalds play pen for hell sakes.

Terrible tragedy that will now set a precedence for more tragedy by locking up federal lands.
 
It is an insult to say, "no amount of money can make up for it"....the parents just sold their son.

Not unlike the old joke that she will sleep with the questioner for a Million dollars but is insulted when he then offers $5. She asks, "what kind of a girl do you take me for". We know the answer....now we're just negotiating the price.

THAT fits the parents perfectly.

I, too, have lost a young son....I do know how much it hurts. It is never right to play the blame game and I would NOT sell my son. Those parents should be ashamed of themselves (of course, the attorney's should, as well).


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Somebody started a thread about this story last year.In it I was politically correct and stated I was sorry for the family of the young boy
Today I going to say what needs to be said.
WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY OF SUE CRAZY WORTHLESS PUKES
 
Very touchy subject and it is a boys life we are talking about. However, the parents were irresponsible, and yes, they were drunk. That was one of the Defense's arguments.


"Half of being smart, is knowing what you're dumb about."
 
I don't have much to say about the law suit. This is the day and age of law suits, but being from the old school, if we saw a bear we were able to shoot it. Now we cannot; therefore, the DWR and Forest Service shares responsibility for notification of problems and more importantly they have the responsibility for at least partial control of the number of animals in the forest. I definitely believe there are to many bears in some areas. The deer numbers go down and bear numbers go up, along with the other predators. Maybe we should all stay home from hunting and camping and the mammal balance would be intact.

For those of you who are throwing rocks, lose a child to a bear attack and let's see what you would do. By the way, if she was drinking, was the bear coming after the alcohol, was she driving, was she unable to go after the bear. JUST WHAT!

I don't know the people from Adam, but I feel their loss.
 
Sad deal. Be ready for the new bear liability management program. Here is your new notification signage coming to a NF near you.

CAMPGROUND CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. RECENT BEAR SIGHTINGS. FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL RESULT IN SEVERE PENALTIES.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
You're probably right. That our government, rather than act, they will react. You would think they are clear full of animal right activists. Oh maybe they are!
 
Although I think the forest service/dwr could have done a little more, the kid had food in his tent in bear country. That is 100% wrong and brings the fault up way more than 10%. I feel for their loss, but can not blame the forest service or DWR for it. It may not have even been the same bear that was causing problems. I am also pretty sure their is more than one bear up the canyon.


In Wyoming, the would have been a nice fine by the forest service when they checked your camp.
 
It was a tragic loss and one that could have/should have been avoided IF the tent wasn't full of goodies. Parents are 99% to blame here. The boy was the innocent victim. As far as cannonballs comment. I don't think you should be able to shoot any bear that you see in or out of a campground. WE are in their territory it's our responsibility to know how to avoid confrontation. Should an actual confrontation arise (bear entering tent/camper) then I'm all for self defense. This will be the beginning of campground closers all over because the FS will not want the liability. The signs posted at the campgrounds are there for a reason. If people don't obey the rules, the consequences can be sad. This was the first fatality involving a bear attack in Utah's history. It surely isn't like we have a problem.
 
Does anyone know anything about the attack mentioned by ksl that happened 12 hours prior? I'd like to know the details on that. Did a guy actually come to blows with this bear? Or was it just some jaw popping and a bluff charge or something?
 
Here is the article from KSL about the campers earlier in the day. Sounds like there was a lack of communication about the sighting in the morning. Hard to tell if it was the 2 kids that didn't accurately report all that happened or if the dispatch didn't accurately relay all the information.

Either way, it would have saved alot of heart ache if the kid that shot at the bear hit and killed it. My first shot would not have been in the air, that is for sure.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=1366370&nid=148
 
I agree with the settlement. And this is why. Man attacked by black bear. The man reports the attack to Forest Service Dispatcher. The Dispatcher takes it upon herself and sits on the call instead of passing it on to the appropriate chain of command. The Female dispatcher is fired for her mistake that cost a little boy his life. If the Forest Service had been notified by their dispatcher steps would have been taken to mitigate the hazard. They would have probably closed the entire area down and pursued the bear. If the female dispatcher would have only done her job, things might of turned out different.
 
I think the forest service is liable only because of this one story:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1366370

Yes I realize they were in a more remote camp ground, yes I realize the parents may have been drinking. But this bear attacked earlier in the day, was not scared off by shots being fired at it. The area should have been closed down.

I lived in Alaska and guided there for 5 years. Black bears generally leave the country if you fire a shot in their direction. My guess is this bear was either sick or injured so it would/could not leave the area. It was a nuisance bear and absolutley should have been hunted down and shot after this first encounter. I disagree with all the sue happy BS that is happening in our counrty right now, but the situation should have been handled differently.
 
I've lost a son and a nephew (different incidents) to someone's "screw up". (I have personally been attacked by a bear.)

I stand by all the rocks, I've thrown. Those parents are money-grubbing (as are the lawyers) and have essentially "sold" their son.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
To EVERYONE who believes the FS (or anyone not part of the family or the bear's family) is responsible in any way......PLEASE stay on the pavement.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 
Catman,

I am not advocating killing all bear. That was a time in the past, but what I am saying is that there are areas where more bear(and cougar) could be hunted. It appears that the animal rights advocates control the numbers and when you do that and are in control, you bare at least some of the responsibility for those animals thru warnings and such.

With the handle of "Catman", I'm sure you run dogs and chase bear and cougar and don't agree that there are to many of those two predators and sorry, but I think houndsmen are part of the problem. We as hunters need you, but in my estimation we don't need the pursuit(non-kill) permits for more reasons than one.
 
Sorry about the death, but no one should be liable for something that a wild animal does. Well in our PC world someone other than the person or persons (drunk mother and father) who was really at fault needs to accept blame, thus the lawsuit. He!! I think they should have sued BHO being he is the top dog, maybe he would accept the blame. HAHA
 
Let's face it- if the FS or DWR had closed the spot where these guys camp- they'd have cursed to high heaven that it was unnecessary... They are the kind of people who can find fault in everyone but themselves...

I'm sick of "being drunk" as an excuse for ANY behavior or negligence or crime... These people got drunk, left their boy in a separate tent, and when he was being dragged away, just let the bear take him (I remember their initial story from 4 years ago about how they listened to him screaming as it dragged him away)... I'm sure this boy's life was not all sunshine and lollipops living with these terrible parents... He's in a much better place.

Go get your 1.9 mil- you definitely deserve it- not your son...


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 

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