And so it begins

Some of those items on the list are some of the last things that we need to do. Yearling hunts? More deer hunts? Come on, that is the last 2 things we need to do is target yearlings and to have more hunts on deer.
 
"Highlight major issues the committee will be asked to discuss (e.g. ensuring private landowners in any bull units can hunt elk on their property)"

Does this point to GS Elk being a limited draw?


"Issues with going away all points given the investment of so many hunters for decades"

Points going away for good?


"What would look like if we merged LE and GS points"

This would only affect deer correct?
 
Here let's make it easy on everyone.
Screenshot_20220317-151947_Drive.jpg
 
SureShot said:
I think BYU is listed because they have the data on survival rates based on their studies--not because they're proposing a yearling hunt.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but after the last study they did where they discovered elk run for private land during the hunt, and they actually had to study that to figure it out, any data from BYU should be ignored. They had to “study” the obvious. Who knows if the other “data” they have is factual, other than what a few gps collars on a digital map tells them.
 
Bux n Dux said:
I’m sorry, but after the last study they did where they discovered elk run for private land during the hunt, and they actually had to study that to figure it out, any data from BYU should be ignored. They had to “study” the obvious. Who knows if the other “data” they have is factual, other than what a few gps collars on a digital map tells them.
Click to expand...
Great conclusion-that should get you far in life.
 
middlefork said:
It is my understanding you can attend. But comments from the public are not allowed.
Click to expand...
I've been to several Board Work Sessions where public comments are not allowed, BUT there was some booing, clapping, shouting, standing, loud "private" conversations, people storming out from the meeting and other forms of "commenting". In one of them, the board even began asking questions of the audience (past RAC and Board members) who claimed they knew more about the issue than the Board or the DWR (Antler Point Restrictions). This one here appears to have some of those kinds of issues. It oughtta be interesting to say the least, even if we're not invited!
 
BillyBoB said:
Is this a meeting the public can attend? I ask because it’s titled a work session.
Click to expand...
Yes! The link/website address has it listed as a "public_meeting". The work session only means that there are no votes on the issues and all the items and discussions are informational only.
 
257Tony said:
"Highlight major issues the committee will be asked to discuss (e.g. ensuring private landowners in any bull units can hunt elk on their property)"

Does this point to GS Elk being a limited draw?


"Issues with going away all points given the investment of so many hunters for decades"

Points going away for good?


"What would look like if we merged LE and GS points"

This would only affect deer correct?
Click to expand...
Obvious typos:

"What would it look like if we merged LE and GS points.
This would only affect deer now, but if we eventually go to a GS elk draw, it probably would include elk.

"Issues with doing away with all points given the investment of so many hunters for decades"
There may be legal issues involved in this one.
 
elkfromabove said:
Obvious typos:

"What would it look like if we merged LE and GS points.
This would only affect deer now, but if we eventually go to a GS elk draw, it probably would include elk.

"Issues with doing away with all points given the investment of so many hunters for decades"
There may be legal issues involved in this one.
Click to expand...
I'm NOT Giving Up My Points!

How's That Sound?
 
elkassassin said:
Hey Hossy!

When You Buy Something Like Your Rifle Or Your Bullets!

Is It OK For Me To Tell You,You Don't Own Them?

If You Wanna See a Fight!

Try Taking Them!

This Shhitt I Gotta See!
Click to expand...
I'm not advocating this, but if they decide to take them it's as simple as a computer click away.

If they ever did do something with the points it would have to consist of stopping all new points growth, so essentially nobody would build any more while they slowly whittled away at everybody's points. Continue with the 50/50 split for 10 years. Then drop it to a 25/75 split for ten years. After 20 years any points you have still gives you an extra number in the draw but no % of tags goes to max points holders.

Hell even do 5 years of 75/25 split, 5 years of 50/50, and then 5 years of 25/75 before going to 100% random.

Just spit balling.
 
elkassassin said:
Hey Hossy!

When You Buy Something Like Your Rifle Or Your Bullets!

Is It OK For Me To Tell You,You Don't Own Them?

If You Wanna See a Fight!

Try Taking Them!

This Shhitt I Gotta See!
Click to expand...


Can you sell those bullets? Rifle?

You leaving them to your kids?

Try that with points, let's see how that works.
 
New studies might be a factor in regard to the idea and discussion of “yearling hunts”
I came across some recent information that I believe was released in November 2021

“One of the more interesting developments over the past few months is completion of a formal analysis of annual survival in Utah by age and sex. This analysis takes advantage of thousands of individuals marked since 2014 along with a relatively high level of accuracy and precision associated with aging animals based on tooth wear. Consequently, we have estimates of annual survival across age classes for Utah. Some of the results are to be expected (e.g., annual survival for prime-aged adult females is about 82 percent; really old animals don’t survive well; etc.), but other parts and pieces of these results are novel and frankly somewhat shocking.

From a sample of hundreds of known-age animals, for example, we see surprisingly low annual survival for mule deer between 1.5 and 2.5 years of age. We would have guessed lower survival for these yearlings compared to prime-age animals, but not as low as observed where annual survival of yearling females is estimated at only 60% and males at less than 50%. These rates represent averages from thousands of animals across half a dozen years. For this analysis, we have also excluded harvested animals and thus the survival rates represent average survival excluding hunting by humans. Evaluation of the causes of death for these yearlings shows a very high number killed by vehicles along our roadways along with lots of mountain lion predation.

Where this result gets really interesting is thinking about how less than 50% of yearling bucks passed up by hunters on any given unit will see 2.5 years of age. With increased desire for “more bigger bucks” on many of our units, some of the math on survival of younger animals works against us. These yearlings represent somewhat of an untapped, but ephemeral resource that is difficult to stockpile. From a policy and harvest management standpoint, one could ask if there is a way to increase or encourage harvest of yearlings by some hunters? If less than half of yearlings make it to 2.5 years of age, should we try to harvest more of them at 1.5? Some food for thought.”
 
Last edited:
BillyBoB said:
New studies might be a factor in regard to the idea and discussion of “yearling hunts”
I came across some recent information that I believe was released in November 2021

“One of the more interesting developments over the past few months is completion of a formal analysis of annual survival in Utah by age and sex. This analysis takes advantage of thousands of individuals marked since 2014 along with a relatively high level of accuracy and precision associated with aging animals based on tooth wear. Consequently, we have estimates of annual survival across age classes for Utah. Some of the results are to be expected (e.g., annual survival for prime-aged adult females is about 82 percent; really old animals don’t survive well; etc.), but other parts and pieces of these results are novel and frankly somewhat shocking.

From a sample of hundreds of known-age animals, for example, we see surprisingly low annual survival for mule deer between 1.5 and 2.5 years of age. We would have guessed lower survival for these yearlings compared to prime-age animals, but not as low as observed where annual survival of yearling females is estimated at only 60% and males at less than 50%. These rates represent averages from thousands of animals across half a dozen years. For this analysis, we have also excluded harvested animals and thus the survival rates represent average survival excluding hunting by humans. Evaluation of the causes of death for these yearlings shows a very high number killed by vehicles along our roadways along with lots of mountain lion predation.

Where this result gets really interesting is thinking about how less than 50% of yearling bucks passed up by hunters on any given unit will see 2.5 years of age. With increased desire for “more bigger bucks” on many of our units, some of the math on survival of younger animals works against us. These yearlings represent somewhat of an untapped, but ephemeral resource that is difficult to stockpile. From a policy and harvest management standpoint, one could ask if there is a way to increase or encourage harvest of yearlings by some hunters? If less than half of yearlings make it to 2.5 years of age, should we try to harvest more of them at 1.5? Some food for thought.”
Click to expand...
Well those study results would certainly explain suggesting something that otherwise doesn't make sense.
It does begs the question of how you make sure the right yearlings are targeted.
 
littlebighorn said:
Well those study results would certainly explain suggesting something that otherwise doesn't make sense.
It does begs the question of how you make sure the right yearlings are targeted.
Click to expand...
In part, that's purty simple! We all start road hunting and take the nearest spike to the road. Or better yet, while they're on the road.:ROFLMAO:
 
BillyBoB said:
.

Where this result gets really interesting is thinking about how less than 50% of yearling bucks passed up by hunters on any given unit will see 2.5 years of age. With increased desire for “more bigger bucks” on many of our units, some of the math on survival of younger animals works against us. These yearlings represent somewhat of an untapped, but ephemeral resource that is difficult to stockpile. From a policy and harvest management standpoint, one could ask if there is a way to increase or encourage harvest of yearlings by some hunters? If less than half of yearlings make it to 2.5 years of age, should we try to harvest more of them at 1.5? Some food for thought.”
Click to expand...

So 50% of the yearlings don't make it, and the idea is to increase harvest on them???

So instead of having 50% of 1000 animals, We kill off 50% before hand and then we only have 500 animals and still deal with losses of 50%....... yeah that's as stupid as it sounds.

Figure out ways to reduce the deaths of the initial 50% rather then trying to make more money off of it.
 
elkassassin said:
GEEZUS!

Better Get Them Before There's any Chance Of Anything Else Happening To Them!

Won't Be Long & They'll Start a Fawn Hunt/4 to 6 Month Old Hunt!
Click to expand...
If that study is the logic they are following, that won't be far off. Get you some fawn veil bess.
 
JakeH said:
So 50% of the yearlings don't make it, and the idea is to increase harvest on them???

So instead of having 50% of 1000 animals, We kill off 50% before hand and then we only have 500 animals and still deal with losses of 50%....... yeah that's as stupid as it sounds.

Figure out ways to reduce the deaths of the initial 50% rather then trying to make more money off of it.
Click to expand...
I was quoting the biologist.
Not that I agree with the idea. I was explaining my assumption of where the idea of a yearling hunt possibly came from.
 
JakeH said:
So 50% of the yearlings don't make it, and the idea is to increase harvest on them???

So instead of having 50% of 1000 animals, We kill off 50% before hand and then we only have 500 animals and still deal with losses of 50%....... yeah that's as stupid as it sounds.

Figure out ways to reduce the deaths of the initial 50% rather then trying to make more money off of it.
Click to expand...
Makes perfect sense…if we kill the little kid deer, we will get rid of those big bucks that nobody wants. Plus, we won’t have to pack out too much meat. You’ll get no roasts, 3 steaks, and a pound of ground! Man I’m in!?
 
BLooDTRaCKeR said:
Makes perfect sense…if we kill the little kid deer, we will get rid of those big bucks that nobody wants. Plus, we won’t have to pack out too much meat. You’ll get no roasts, 3 steaks, and a pound of ground! Man I’m in!?
Click to expand...


Makes life easier for the IG crowd though.

Don't have to drop the "not the 230" buck I scouted and had cam pics of in July,but this forkie will make good eating. Just proving, I've never killed anything I had on cam"
 

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