H
highhunt
Guest
So, Don Martin, can I draw unit 10 rifle Antelope without max points as a non-resident? Ever? Or, as a non-resident would I need max points for this unit just as I would for the strip for deer?
DonMartin
Very Active Member
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You absolutely can draw a Unit 10 antelope tag without max points and here is why.
Just look at the bonus point list and you'll see that residents far outweigh NR when it comes to having a lot of bonus points for antelope, especially in the upper end of bps.
So under the 20% pass, there will be a total of 14 tags issued this year under the 20% pass in Unit 10.(20% of 70 = 14)
Doubtful that NR got few of those 14 tags, so there was no doubt tags available for NR to draw as the 10$ cap was not be filled on that first draw 20% pass draw.
Matter of fact, I know a guy in Wyoming who has drawn the tag this year and he did it without being close to max.
Strip deer is a completely different deal.
Unless you got max BP you as a NR are NOT going to draw and here is why.
There are currently over 160 NR with max points and 18 residents with max points.
There are 65 tags being offered this year in Unit 13B That means 13 of them will go to those in the max pool. Way it will happen is NR will get 6 tags out of the the 13 being available. AZ residents get the next 7.
However since the NR 10% cap is 6 tags, all of them are taken in the first 20% pass draw, so NO NR tags will be available after that.
Bottom line, if you don't have maximum deer points (15) you're not going to even have a chance at a Strip (13B) rifle deer tag.
Sorry, just the way it is....
By the way, I did a supplemental hunter ed class today, had 8 NR that graduated. Two of those just went from 14 BP into the max pool for deer, so they join 160+ of their fellow NR's. Still tough odds (1-28) but better than 0 odds!
The difference is that antelope is not as important to NR's as is a strip mule deer tag. Just look at the numbers and it is easy to see and understand why that is.
Hope that helps! If not call me and we'll go over the numbers ( I have them) and be glad to give them to you. They are available off of the AZ G&F website though.
Don Martin
Just look at the bonus point list and you'll see that residents far outweigh NR when it comes to having a lot of bonus points for antelope, especially in the upper end of bps.
So under the 20% pass, there will be a total of 14 tags issued this year under the 20% pass in Unit 10.(20% of 70 = 14)
Doubtful that NR got few of those 14 tags, so there was no doubt tags available for NR to draw as the 10$ cap was not be filled on that first draw 20% pass draw.
Matter of fact, I know a guy in Wyoming who has drawn the tag this year and he did it without being close to max.
Strip deer is a completely different deal.
Unless you got max BP you as a NR are NOT going to draw and here is why.
There are currently over 160 NR with max points and 18 residents with max points.
There are 65 tags being offered this year in Unit 13B That means 13 of them will go to those in the max pool. Way it will happen is NR will get 6 tags out of the the 13 being available. AZ residents get the next 7.
However since the NR 10% cap is 6 tags, all of them are taken in the first 20% pass draw, so NO NR tags will be available after that.
Bottom line, if you don't have maximum deer points (15) you're not going to even have a chance at a Strip (13B) rifle deer tag.
Sorry, just the way it is....
By the way, I did a supplemental hunter ed class today, had 8 NR that graduated. Two of those just went from 14 BP into the max pool for deer, so they join 160+ of their fellow NR's. Still tough odds (1-28) but better than 0 odds!
The difference is that antelope is not as important to NR's as is a strip mule deer tag. Just look at the numbers and it is easy to see and understand why that is.
Hope that helps! If not call me and we'll go over the numbers ( I have them) and be glad to give them to you. They are available off of the AZ G&F website though.
Don Martin
B
BlastNCast
Guest
Don,
Can you tell me where I can find a schedule of the supplemental hunter ed classes? I am coming from Utah and would like to know when is the soonest and closest to Utah ?
Thanks in advance
Can you tell me where I can find a schedule of the supplemental hunter ed classes? I am coming from Utah and would like to know when is the soonest and closest to Utah ?
Thanks in advance
DonMartin
Very Active Member
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TRC:
Ah you've uncovered the "Hidden Secret" of how a current non-resident, but who formerly was an AZ resident, and purchased a lifetime AZ license BEFORE they left the state, can "tweak" the odds of drawing a big game tag.
If you have an Arizona lifetime hunting license, but are now a non-resident, you are still considered a resident for the purposes of the draw. YOU DO HAVE TO PAY THE NR TAG FEES HOWEVER!
That is a small price to pay however when you think that you will never have to buy an Arizona hunting license again (Currently $151.25 for NR)and that even if you are NOT in the max bonus pool, you still are in for 80% of the tags, versus the 10% cap that NR have.
I'm a native Arizonan and will never leave AZ, but how I wished I had bought that license about 20 years ago.
My advice to anyone who is an Arizona resident now but for what ever reason is going to move to another state, but yet who wants to hunt in AZ is to buy the license BEFORE you leave!
Don Martin
Master Instructor
AZ Hunter Education
Region III
Ah you've uncovered the "Hidden Secret" of how a current non-resident, but who formerly was an AZ resident, and purchased a lifetime AZ license BEFORE they left the state, can "tweak" the odds of drawing a big game tag.
If you have an Arizona lifetime hunting license, but are now a non-resident, you are still considered a resident for the purposes of the draw. YOU DO HAVE TO PAY THE NR TAG FEES HOWEVER!
That is a small price to pay however when you think that you will never have to buy an Arizona hunting license again (Currently $151.25 for NR)and that even if you are NOT in the max bonus pool, you still are in for 80% of the tags, versus the 10% cap that NR have.
I'm a native Arizonan and will never leave AZ, but how I wished I had bought that license about 20 years ago.
My advice to anyone who is an Arizona resident now but for what ever reason is going to move to another state, but yet who wants to hunt in AZ is to buy the license BEFORE you leave!
Don Martin
Master Instructor
AZ Hunter Education
Region III
DonMartin
Very Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-12 AT 00:29AM (MST)[p]Mike111:
OK, I went and pulled up the bonus point info and here is where you are at.
NR's obviously do not impact the draw odds for antelope as they do with deer and elk.
Kinda confused if you are resident or NR based on your post. Remember that NR have the 10% cap, so that amount in Unit 10 could have been filled, but it wasn't and here's why. I know a NR guy who drew with less than max.
Bottom line is you're getting close!
Right now here is how the BP situation is (or was) before this draw).
18 bonus points: 445 resident, 19 non-resident
19 bonus points: 312 resident, 16 non-resident
20 bonus points: 195 residents, 9 non-residents
21 bonus points: 65 residents, 1 non-resident
22 bonus points: 14 residents, 1 non-resident
23 bonus points: 5 residents and 0 non-residents
Unit 10 had 70 tags, so under the 20% pass, the first 14 tags went to those who had the most bonus points. Probably looked at the 23 and 22 points holders to fill that.
But that is just for Unit 10. Obviously other units had the 20% pass affect them differently as far as how far down they went to get the 20%.
Hope that helps!
Don Martin
OK, I went and pulled up the bonus point info and here is where you are at.
NR's obviously do not impact the draw odds for antelope as they do with deer and elk.
Kinda confused if you are resident or NR based on your post. Remember that NR have the 10% cap, so that amount in Unit 10 could have been filled, but it wasn't and here's why. I know a NR guy who drew with less than max.
Bottom line is you're getting close!
Right now here is how the BP situation is (or was) before this draw).
18 bonus points: 445 resident, 19 non-resident
19 bonus points: 312 resident, 16 non-resident
20 bonus points: 195 residents, 9 non-residents
21 bonus points: 65 residents, 1 non-resident
22 bonus points: 14 residents, 1 non-resident
23 bonus points: 5 residents and 0 non-residents
Unit 10 had 70 tags, so under the 20% pass, the first 14 tags went to those who had the most bonus points. Probably looked at the 23 and 22 points holders to fill that.
But that is just for Unit 10. Obviously other units had the 20% pass affect them differently as far as how far down they went to get the 20%.
Hope that helps!
Don Martin
AZBuckSnort
Very Active Member
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Good luck to all those who lucked into a Unit 10 pronghorn tag for 2012!
Zim
Very Active Member
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- 2,319
OK so I have 17 NR points after this year. Based on that point breakdown, think I should keep waiting for rifle, or just go for archery? I think I'd get archery if I put in. I'm not interested in waiting another 10 years. Thanks.
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Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
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Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
Drnaln
Active Member
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Zim,After applying for that many years,you should already know the answer to that question!If you want to hunt now,put in for archery but if you really want to do rifle,take your chances in the draw!You are a long way from the bonus point round so look at the random odds but you already knew that!
David
PS I drew a 19A North muzzleloader tag in 1999 with 2 points & took a buck that scored 89+ and this year I lucked out with a Unit 7 archery tag,both Non-resident!
David
PS I drew a 19A North muzzleloader tag in 1999 with 2 points & took a buck that scored 89+ and this year I lucked out with a Unit 7 archery tag,both Non-resident!
H
hesbinrubn
Guest
I have a question on the subject along the lines of residents. Sorry to change the subject. I know some residents that have been putting in for antelope and elk forever and have like a million points. while on the other hand there are people like me who get drawn just in general a lot. I have been so lucky and have drawn for 2 antelope tags in 9 years in 19B and 10. I draw a lot of other tags also for deer, and I have lost count of the turkey tags I have had. Anyway Don, or whoever else knows, how come those people never get tags and other guys get back to back antelope tags, or back to back archery bull tags?
Its the luck of the draw........at least I think. I have only ever had 1 archery bull elk tag as a resident. 4 years ago. I work with a guy who is on his 3rd archery bull tag in a row. And in hard to draw units. He drew 7W the last two years as a second choice, and drew 9 this year. They say the draw is random, but seeing things like this I'm not so sure....
DonMartin
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You hit it on the head, you can't beat blind luck!
The draw is generally based on mathematical probabilities, not mathematical certainties.
Some exceptions, like when 20 pool has more permits than applicants but won't go there now.
You are lucky, plain and simple. Others are not. Heck I missed a cow tag this year!
Anyway, enjoy your streak, and don't question it. It does happen, and will continue to happen. In the mean time some of us will just keep accruing bonus points.
Don Martin
The draw is generally based on mathematical probabilities, not mathematical certainties.
Some exceptions, like when 20 pool has more permits than applicants but won't go there now.
You are lucky, plain and simple. Others are not. Heck I missed a cow tag this year!
Anyway, enjoy your streak, and don't question it. It does happen, and will continue to happen. In the mean time some of us will just keep accruing bonus points.
Don Martin
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