Any Scope on Muzzy Passed

[hogg_65]

They just passed the divisions proposals as presented. Muzzy huntin just got a bit more effective.

 

[Muley_73]

First off I will admit I am a long range guy on the rifle hunts. That being said this is a horrible thing for the state in my opinion. The muzzy hunt was originally set up as an extra "primitive weapon" hunt. That was the sole reason in letting the muzzy hunters have their own season. We now have technology that will allow animals to be harvested out to 500 yards with muzzleloaders and even further if you spend a little more money. Go check out YouTube and the Gunwerks muzzleloaders. They are successfully shooting animals out past 800 yards. John B made a comment today that you can put a 24 power scope on a muzzy and it is like putting spinner rims on your Pinto. If that is really what John believes it scares me to think what his true knowledge is on the rest of the issues he is voting on. I have battled for years on here with the "opportunity" crowd. Well fellas the passing of that law will increase the effectiveness of muzzys and the results could very well be less tags overall. This will effect the LE and general tags for deer and elk in my opinion. Add late season muzzy deer tags, allow muzzy elk hunters a bull or a cow, allow muzzys to become much more effective all in one session? That could be a dangerous mix.

 

[treedagain]

I will be in touch with gunwerks. Never used a mizzleloader. I will now

 

[Deerlove]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-15 AT 03:22PM (MST)[p]Totally sucks, Gun werks just made a lot of $. Muley73 you hit the nail on the head! PS some people are out of tune on that board.

 

[hogg_65]

Im not un favor of it. Ill stick to my open sights.

 

[Forkhorn]

Wish they would of at lease put a max power of 3. now its just a single shot rifle hunt!

 

[Runnoft]

That sucks!

 

[Gator]

Me I like it as I get older my eyes get weaker. Maybe they should put a age limit on it. Over 58 3x9 under 58 to 40 a 3x under 40 a 1x.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[ARROWHNTR]

its a bad day for muzz hunters, others are spot on, adding magnification will be the final nail in the coffin for muzz hunting. The introduction of inlines took away the November hunt now with scopes more opportunity will be lost. It's sad that the wildlife board did not listen to the RACs which 3 of 5 voted against this.

 

[Packout]

I don't get on MM much anymore, but thought I'd see what guys have to say about the ML issue. I tend to agree with Muley and most of the rest- this was not a good move for the game we love to hunt. It will make it easier to kill the better animals. I have a ML topped with a 6x18 to use when I hunt out of state. 300 yards is easy and 400 is very possible.

The whole RAC/Board system is just a joke anymore. Paid lobbyists and good ole boys hanging out together. I have known many of those guys for decades and have mostly good to say about them, yet I had a hard time even listening to the meeting as I worked today. So much misinformation and personal agendas it was kind of depressing to listen to.....

 

[SureShot]

Thank you, wildlife board! I'm very happy with this decision.

 

[browtine]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-15 AT 08:18PM (MST)[p]Just remember Packout, Muzzleloaders only shoot 150 yards and even if you put chrome wheels on a pinto, it doesn't increase performance.. I threw up watching that meeting today.

 

[Smokepole]

Not good!

 

[goofyelk]

Muzzle loader hunting permits just got harder to draw!

And how about the November general ML elk?
I think it just got more popular as well.

 

[Shadow]

So now we'll have everybody and there dog buying muzzleloaders and putting 3x9's on top so they can jack up 400 yard shots? Nevermind the 5' lob and the lack of energy to effectively kill? It's a sad day for our sport.

 

[elkassassin]

3X9's My Ass!

My 6X18 will be mounted Immediately!

My Question is:

If the RAC's voted it Down,WTH Good are the RAC's?


Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[Wiszard]

I think seeing a larger deer in the scope with the higher power scopes will give hunters a false sense of accuracy. Imagine the drop of a ball at 400 yards. There will be many more wounded animals in my opinion. I would've liked to see 3 or 4 power but that might even be too much.

Those ML tags absolutely got way harder to draw. Bummer.

Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.

 

[Stonefly]

I know there are those, who, by me saying. I thought scopes had nothing to do with "primitive", will respond with something like, THEN USE A SPEAR, WITH FLINT HEADS,... I first hunted with a charcoal burner in, I think 1980. I bought a kit from Reed, in A.F. There will be a few here on MM who will know who Reed was,and
fondly remember him. I also bought Patch material, bulk lead, and Black Powder from his basement, and back yard bunker. By the mid 1980s I had 3 muzzy's a Great Plains .54 Thompson renegade .54 Thompson Hawken flintlock in .50 ( used all for hunting, But the Great Plains was my favorite, With that extra long barrel, Buckhorn sights, 110 grns of FF .15 pillow ticking patch. and home rolled .54 pure lead ball...THIS was my long range rifle.) I was successful out to 360 yards!!!! (on the Gong target) and even killed several Mule Deer at extream ranges. one a rather nice 3X4 and my farthest, wasnt an foot less than 120 yards. I was lucky enough to hunt with this type firearm, with my Dad,Brother, and other family members for a few years. My Dad and Brother have long since passed, And reading all this makes me remember a comment he made, when a guy, on a three wheeler, stopped in our camp on the south end of Mt. Dutton. It was the year before Dad passed.. Anyway this guy had a TC scout with a scope, we talked a while and after the guy left my Dad said. "why the hell would ya wanna wreck a muzzle loader with a scope".I dont think he ever knew of Sabots, or pretend Black powder, I dont think he knew that fellers scout was an inline, or that,that gun was one of the beginning of the end setups,. for me anyway. Muzzle loading was my favorite way to hunt Deer for years,right up to about 2002. sadly Iv not Hunted with one for years now . My sons try to get me to apply with them, they use inlines, pelletized powder, and bullets with plastic bases. I tell them no thanks, I'll come along and spend my time tunnin up the Dutch ovens,so you ladies can have some real food when your done huntin with your single shots... I havent seen a scope on their rigs yet...LMAO I love telling my sons and Grandsons stories about how we did it in "the Old Days"...and thats the way I want to remember my primitive black powder hunts. I hope folks make memories as Dear as mine., with whatever setup they use. If you think you need a scope to get the job done, then more power to ya. Just dont complain when the "next best improvment" comes along. I have to admit after hunting with that old Hawken (I only shot 1 Deer with it, aimed at the white spot under his chin, and flinched just enough to hit him in the right eye) my new fangled #11 cap locks were mighty appealing. LMAO. I hear now you can only kill a buck with shotgun shell primers that set off pellets of pretend powder, in a stainless steel barrel,while looking though a Nightforce, with custom turrets to follow the rainbow of your all copper, Eco friendly something or other. That another Memory, seein my Mothers look on her face when she found ..my Barrel soaking in the bath tub LMAO. but it did need a good cleaning.. Geezus Im goin to bed now, Founder will have to post this in hardback cover

 

[MUZZLELOADER_MULEY_FREAK]

Please educate me on this. Why is a scope on a muzzy such a bad thing? If I remember right 60% of the sportsman who filled out the survey where in favor of this change.

 

[fullthrottle]

Sad day, way to go Utah you essentially opened up a early season high country rifle hunt. Give me a weapon that will be effective out to 400 yards in September and I will show you some BUCKS, along with many of the other hunters. Not good for the mature deer herd. Too bad, things looked to be headed in the the right direction, but this will definitely have an effect. Bummer.

 

[Robiland]

Now, Just put these long range muzzy hunters opening day hunt at about, lets say, the 3rd Saturday in October. With the rest the rifle hunters.

 

[Deerlove]

I was told that 53% of hunters said they wanted scopes in the survey. This is going to bite them in the butt with shorter seasons and harder to draw tags.

 

[Muley_73]

Deerlove,
They will be much more effective and result in higher success rates. More success will equal less bucks or Bulls. That will result on lower buck to doe ratios or a cut in tags. Either way it's a lose for the sportsmen overall. We just can't help ourselves from killing the golden goose.

 

[stillwaitin]

I don't love the change, I can see allowing use of magnifying scopes but feel it should be limiter to up to 3x scopes at the most.

 

[Zeke]

It's unfortunate, that's for sure, but at least I don't have to take my load "test" scope off my ML rifle now.

The effective range has not changed, only the range at which some guys THINK they can now shoot because of the higher magnification.

I took the survey and voted against a scope power increase! It looks like the regular rifle tags will become easier to get now.

Zeke

 

[Deerlove]

Zeke, were going to have to upgrade.

 

[heartshot]

Very Disappointing! The aiming limitations of the long range guns has now been overcome.

Now what do I do? Do I go buy a new long range set up or do I stay the same and get left behind?

This change sucks! It's a bad day for UT muzzleloading.

Up next - Hunter orange required for muzzleloader hunts.

 

[heartshot]

I think Zeke already upgraded this last year.

Zeke - Your in luck if your scope is still mounted. Just another benefit of having a sheep tag so you had to skip the muzz deer hunt and never had to take off your scope.

 

[Zeke]

That's exactly right, gents.

I put a 2.5x8 Leuopld on my Ultimate to test load accuracy and never got around to taking it off.

There's a strong suspicion it will be tougher to re-draw the LE tag this year because of the change but time will tell.

It's really a sad day when we've become so "progressive" that we've lost sight of what "primitive" mean. Human nature has me taking advantage of the change but I don't like what it will do for that segment of our sport.

Playin' within the rules but saddened by where it's taking us. Remember, I voted against it!

Zeke

 

[elkassassin]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-15 AT 04:16PM (MST)[p]Hey Zeke?

How many years has that 'Load Test Scope' been on your SmokePole?




Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[gundog2]

I just happened to tune into the board meeting when they "discussed" the muzzle-loader scope issue. With out naming names (given that I don't even know any of them), it seemed like there was one person that really dominated this discussion. I think one of the most persuading arguments was the fact than 57% of the hunters surveyed voted in favor of the magnifying scopes (despite the fact that 3/5 RAC opposed).

Like many on this forum I voted against scopes, but I can see how this might sound appealing to many people, if you don't think too hard about it.

There was an argument made that the muzzleloaders were inherently inaccurate. In my experience, it is true that my muzzleloader groups were significantly larger than my rifles (with scopes). However, my blurry muzzleloader peep sight covers half the blurry target at 100 yards. It will be interesting to see how much my groups improve with a scope. I have no doubt that scopes combined with range finders are going to be real game changers.

 

[Trix4me]

NOW WHAT TO DO?????
I bought and mounted a Lyman peep sight on my White this fall. I guess I'll have to give it some thought.

 

[Zeke]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-15
>AT 04:16?PM (MST)
>
>Hey Zeke?
>
>How many years has that 'Load
>Test Scope' been on your
>SmokePole?

Well Bess, that's a secret. Haha
I've had it on for the life of the gun..... About a year now but I've never hunted Utah with it so I suppose I'm still okay!
I hope to hunt with it this year but my fate is in the hands of Utah's drawing Gods!
Zeke

 

[elkassassin]

Gotta RAZZ You Zeke!

And Trix!

6X18 Ya Baby!






Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[elkassassin]

Nobody is Answering My Question?

If The RAC's Voted it Down?

WTH Good are the RAC's?




Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[Stonefly]

Bess , I heard 3 of 5 voted it down...But you are gonna wanna check those numbers

 

[browtine]

Yea pretty much nothing.. I think Packout hit the nail on the head. If you watched the video or were there in person, there was no doubt that was going to pass. I am surprised they didn't put a limit on it, but whatever.

 

[elkantlers]

>Nobody is Answering My Question?
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>If The RAC's Voted it Down?
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>WTH Good are the RAC's?
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> Go
>Ahead!
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>Make Me take it down!
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>
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If the majority of the people wanted it, what the hell good are the three RAC's that voted it down?

 

[nebo12000]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-15 AT 10:59AM (MST)[p]However-- over 57% of the public surveyed wanted magnification, so do we ignore that ? Wasn't an easy or clear cut decision to make.

 

[Packout]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-15 AT 09:56AM (MST)[p]>However-- over 57% of the public
>surveyed wanted magnification, so do
>we ignore that ? Wasn't
>an easy or clear cut
>decision to make. Packout had
>a chance to be on
>a RAC and for whatever
>reason he chose not to.
>He could of made a
>difference,

A person can not turn down something they were never offered. I was never offered a seat on the RAC.

 

[nebo12000]

You would have been but as I understand it you decided to not continue the process... I personally would have wanted you on it.

 

[Packout]

Someone has been lying to you as I never pulled out of the process. Just to set the record straight, I applied and was denied. Life goes on.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Too bad, I think this will put a big dent in the already rare public land mature mule deer. Just when the hunting seemed to be getting pretty good.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

What other states allow magnifying scopes on MLs? Has anyone done any research on how it affected mature bucks and the deer herd in general once they were allowed?

 

[ElmerFudd]

I know AZ and NM allow any scope. They are all limited entry hunts, though. I really doubt it will have much effect on the overall number of mature bucks left over after the rifle hunt.....

 

[deerelkalope]

Any power scopes on muzzleloaders....best thing ever!!! Hasn't been a primitive weapon hunt since inlines hit the market. Look at the technology in archery, primitive weapon? How long is archery season? Muzzy season starts on a Wednesday and ends on a Friday. Only one weekend for the working man. I bow hunted for 30 years until shoulder surgery made it nearly impossible to practice shooting as much as I wanted to. Do we need to talk about rifle hunting technology or the guy that never practices with his big game rifle. Anybody want to be restricted on the type of sights/scope on their 300 win mag? Just because it can shoot and kill at 1000 yards doesn't mean you should have a scope that can allow you to see the target clearly at that distance. Is that what some are saying about a 300 yard muzzleloader? Open sights or red dots are very unforgiving for my aging eyes, ever look through a 1 power scope? To me it seems like a simple progression in the world of hunting. Put a 1 power scope on the 300 mag with 1 bullet in the chamber and the rest in a box in your pocket on the next deer hunt and you will still have more time to hunt.

 

[MuskegMan]

Hmmmm . . . 13 NR points going into the draw and I just picked up an inline MZ. I'm leaning towards the MZ LE hunts for sure now. Prolly won't go more than 6x tho - just to keep it sporty.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

This is A great Idea.if the rifle hunters can shoot out there at 1000 yards plus using there gun to there full potential,then muzzle loaders should be able too....

 

[cannonball]

I'm totally against it, but now it is what it is. I just purchased a used TC omega that has never been loaded or fired and the 3 X 9 scope is on its way. I am totally tired of bucking the Utah System.

 

[Trix4me]

Only one question (today) How much should I worry about my muzzies recoil/blast messing with the new scope? 95 grains of pyrodex.